ELT EPIRB

[[email protected]]

I stumbled across this ACE AquaFix 406 ELT EPIRB while looking for a
transponder:

http://www.anchorexpress.com/acr-aquafix-406-epirb.html

It contains a GPS that transmits your location in an emergency. ACR
also has a $75 rebate for participating dealers (and they DO have to be
participating), which this one is.

Does anybody know anything about this unit other than what you can read
on the web? I am assuming that you have to activate it manually (no
accelerometer crash activation).

Tom Seim
2G
Richland, WA

[[email protected]]

Tom,


I just want to warn you that this will not meet the SSA Comp. rules
where ELT's are REQUIRED for competition. The present rules allow
contests to require ELT's and they have to be mounted and meet FAA
specifications. Personal ones do not meet the rules. The Region 8
contest did not require them in '06 and I did not hear anything during
the contest that indicates they will change that for '07.
This said, having a personal ELTof any kind makes a lot of sense and I
do carry one of the cheaper non GPS models on my chute harness.
Tom
Idaho

wrote:
> I stumbled across this ACE AquaFix 406 ELT EPIRB while looking for a
> transponder:
>
> http://www.anchorexpress.com/acr-aquafix-406-epirb.html
>
> It contains a GPS that transmits your location in an emergency. ACR
> also has a $75 rebate for participating dealers (and they DO have to be
> participating), which this one is.
>
> Does anybody know anything about this unit other than what you can read
> on the web? I am assuming that you have to activate it manually (no
> accelerometer crash activation).
>
> Tom Seim
> 2G
> Richland, WA

[[email protected]]

Why do the (USA) present rules re ELT's stipulate that they have to be
mounted and meet FAA specifications, and that personal ones do not meet
the rules?

If you bale out, you might be a long way from the glider wreckage and
remain undiscovered if rescuers only have a fix on the glider wreckage.
Most survivable accidents, bale out or still in cockpit, have the
pilot still able to push a button and could use a personal ELT. That
seems to be the thinking of several UK piots who have or are thinking
about ELT's. I looked at the installation/certification details of a
fixed one (no approved scheme for it in the UK) and it looks difficult
to the point of being impractical.

Chris N.

[BTIZ]

There have been a number of US accidents in the last few years that were not
found for days..
- The glider was not missed until the end of the day when he did land back
at the airport and had not reported in.
- An installed ELT would automatically activate on most impacts and not
require a pilot with injuries to become conscious enough to activate it
- I agree a personal ELT will be with the parachute harness and not far from
the glider.
- A built in ELT can be manually activated.
- The recent mid air at Minden NV between a glider and a jet, the pilot
landed in the parachute beside or close enough to, his glider. The harness
was found next to the glider, as the pilot after waiting a few hours decided
to walk out before dark.
- Likely hood of mid air accidents are increased during contests because of
"gaggle" and common turn points, and missing gliders from accidents during
contests, increased notification time and likelihood of finding a pilot
before he succumbs to injuries, so SSA deems it necessary.

BT

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Why do the (USA) present rules re ELT's stipulate that they have to be
> mounted and meet FAA specifications, and that personal ones do not meet
> the rules?
>
> If you bale out, you might be a long way from the glider wreckage and
> remain undiscovered if rescuers only have a fix on the glider wreckage.
> Most survivable accidents, bale out or still in cockpit, have the
> pilot still able to push a button and could use a personal ELT. That
> seems to be the thinking of several UK piots who have or are thinking
> about ELT's. I looked at the installation/certification details of a
> fixed one (no approved scheme for it in the UK) and it looks difficult
> to the point of being impractical.
>
> Chris N.
>

[BTIZ]

Tom,
A friend has one for Soaring and Power flying, the discrete code assigned to
the unit (serial number idea) is registered and it gets transmitted along
with gps coordinates, so the searchers know who they are looking for by
name.

Rather bulky to strap to a parachute harness, but it can be done.
They have to be activated manually, some can be designed to automatically
activate if in sea water, but not due to impact deceleration. Also useable
by back country solo hikers and campers.

BT

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I stumbled across this ACE AquaFix 406 ELT EPIRB while looking for a
> transponder:
>
> http://www.anchorexpress.com/acr-aquafix-406-epirb.html
>
> It contains a GPS that transmits your location in an emergency. ACR
> also has a $75 rebate for participating dealers (and they DO have to be
> participating), which this one is.
>
> Does anybody know anything about this unit other than what you can read
> on the web? I am assuming that you have to activate it manually (no
> accelerometer crash activation).
>
> Tom Seim
> 2G
> Richland, WA
>

[Greg Arnold]

I have had one attached to my chute harness for more than a year. Don't
even notice it. Only disadvantage is that you have to manually activate
it. But it would work if you are injured but conscious.


BTIZ wrote:
> Tom,
> A friend has one for Soaring and Power flying, the discrete code assigned to
> the unit (serial number idea) is registered and it gets transmitted along
> with gps coordinates, so the searchers know who they are looking for by
> name.
>
> Rather bulky to strap to a parachute harness, but it can be done.
> They have to be activated manually, some can be designed to automatically
> activate if in sea water, but not due to impact deceleration. Also useable
> by back country solo hikers and campers.
>
> BT
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I stumbled across this ACE AquaFix 406 ELT EPIRB while looking for a
>> transponder:
>>
>> http://www.anchorexpress.com/acr-aquafix-406-epirb.html
>>
>> It contains a GPS that transmits your location in an emergency. ACR
>> also has a $75 rebate for participating dealers (and they DO have to be
>> participating), which this one is.
>>
>> Does anybody know anything about this unit other than what you can read
>> on the web? I am assuming that you have to activate it manually (no
>> accelerometer crash activation).
>>
>> Tom Seim
>> 2G
>> Richland, WA
>>
>
>

[Nyal Williams]

Our club has always used the standard hand signals
to let the tow pilot know the rope is taut and the
tow can begin.

We are considering short-handed operations in the early
hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
short, unambiguous, and easily understood.

Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
all the requirements.

[Frank Whiteley]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Our club has always used the standard hand signals
> to let the tow pilot know the rope is taut and the
> tow can begin.
>
> We are considering short-handed operations in the early
> hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
> Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
> phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
> We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
> short, unambiguous, and easily understood.
>
> Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
> all the requirements.
Give the wing runner a signal paddle (like a large ping-pong paddle) to
signal the tow plane. I usually use my floppy hat. We don't use a
launch marshall, but it sounds like your site uses a separate signal
person from the wing runner. Larger mirrors might help. You don't say
what limitations you're facing that prevents the tow pilot from seeing
the wing runner. Personally, if a wing runner can't perform the
hookup, the lookout, signal, and run the wing, I'd find someone else or
launch unassisted.

We've settled on three audio signals for winch launching on the radio,
each spoken three times. Up slack, go, and stop. Just who is giving
the radio signals? If there's no wing runner, but I don't think we've
settled on signals other than communicating with the tow pilot by
closing the canopy and giving a rudder wag.

In the UK we called 'all out' three times instead of 'go' on the winch.
If the problem is really an audio issue, buy some nice noise canceling
headsets.

Frank Whiteley

[BTIZ]

Glider pilot calls.. "take up slack" and then counts down feet to a
stretched out cord, our tow pilots can see the line in the mirrors also. Tow
pilot can see the glider rudder waggle in most lighting conditions.. in the
mirrors.

Glider Pilot calls.. "I'm ready" if the tow pilot does not see the rudder,
calls prefaced by call signs
"11Z, Glider 9B is ready."
BT

"Nyal Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Our club has always used the standard hand signals
> to let the tow pilot know the rope is taut and the
> tow can begin.
>
> We are considering short-handed operations in the early
> hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
> Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
> phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
> We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
> short, unambiguous, and easily understood.
>
> Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
> all the requirements.
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

>I usually use my floppy hat. We don't use a
> launch marshall, but it sounds like your site uses a separate signal
> person from the wing runner. Larger mirrors might help. You don't say
> what limitations you're facing that prevents the tow pilot from seeing
> the wing runner. Personally, if a wing runner can't perform the
> hookup, the lookout, signal, and run the wing, I'd find someone else or
> launch unassisted.
>

I agree, a person who cannot hook up, cannot run a wing, and does not know
the standard SSA signals, should not be left unassisted to launch a glider.

BT

[Frank Whiteley]

BTIZ wrote:
> >I usually use my floppy hat. We don't use a
> > launch marshall, but it sounds like your site uses a separate signal
> > person from the wing runner. Larger mirrors might help. You don't say
> > what limitations you're facing that prevents the tow pilot from seeing
> > the wing runner. Personally, if a wing runner can't perform the
> > hookup, the lookout, signal, and run the wing, I'd find someone else or
> > launch unassisted.
> >
>
> I agree, a person who cannot hook up, cannot run a wing, and does not know
> the standard SSA signals, should not be left unassisted to launch a glider.
>
> BT

Just a topical reminder, there's wing runner online training on the SSF
website
http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/wingrunner/toc.htm

Frank

[Nyal Williams]

Actually, it is a mirror problem. I think we have
it worked out, but I just wanted to hear what others
might be doing.

I dislike the 'Go,go,go;' and 'Stop, stop, stop.'
We have several airports around us using the same frequency
and this kind of communication is too cluttered.

At 05:18 21 September 2006, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>
>Nyal Williams wrote:
>> Our club has always used the standard hand signals
>> to let the tow pilot know the rope is taut and the
>> tow can begin.
>>
>> We are considering short-handed operations in the
>>early
>> hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
>> Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
>> phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
>> We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
>> short, unambiguous, and easily understood.
>>
>> Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
>> all the requirements.
>Give the wing runner a signal paddle (like a large
>ping-pong paddle) to
>signal the tow plane. I usually use my floppy hat.
> We don't use a
>launch marshall, but it sounds like your site uses
>a separate signal
>person from the wing runner. Larger mirrors might
>help. You don't say
>what limitations you're facing that prevents the tow
>pilot from seeing
>the wing runner. Personally, if a wing runner can't
>perform the
>hookup, the lookout, signal, and run the wing, I'd
>find someone else or
>launch unassisted.
>
>We've settled on three audio signals for winch launching
>on the radio,
>each spoken three times. Up slack, go, and stop.
>Just who is giving
>the radio signals? If there's no wing runner, but
>I don't think we've
>settled on signals other than communicating with the
>tow pilot by
>closing the canopy and giving a rudder wag.
>
>In the UK we called 'all out' three times instead of
>'go' on the winch.
> If the problem is really an audio issue, buy some
>nice noise canceling
>headsets.
>
>Frank Whiteley
>
>

[Doug Haluza]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Our club has always used the standard hand signals
> to let the tow pilot know the rope is taut and the
> tow can begin.
>
> We are considering short-handed operations in the early
> hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
> Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
> phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
> We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
> short, unambiguous, and easily understood.
>
> Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
> all the requirements.

We use: "Towplane X, Glider Y ready for takeoff (with/without water
ballast)"

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Frank Whiteley wrote:
> BTIZ wrote:
>>> I usually use my floppy hat. We don't use a
>>> launch marshall, but it sounds like your site uses a separate signal
>>> person from the wing runner. Larger mirrors might help. You don't say
>>> what limitations you're facing that prevents the tow pilot from seeing
>>> the wing runner. Personally, if a wing runner can't perform the
>>> hookup, the lookout, signal, and run the wing, I'd find someone else or
>>> launch unassisted.
>>>
>> I agree, a person who cannot hook up, cannot run a wing, and does not know
>> the standard SSA signals, should not be left unassisted to launch a glider.
>>
>> BT
>
> Just a topical reminder, there's wing runner online training on the SSF
> website
> http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/wingrunner/toc.htm
>
> Frank
>
We use two commands if we're aero towing with radios. "Take Up slack" to
start the tug moving and "All Out" when the rope comes tight. Both are
preceeded by the tug's call sign.

We normally use radio for the winch. Three commands are used: "Take Up
Slack" repeated until the cable is tight, then "All out" repeated until
the glider is visible to the winch driver. "Stop" repeated three times
is the emergency stop signal. I think the three syllables, two syllables
and single syllable distinction is important: it helps to cut through
wind noise, especially if the launch marshal is short handed, holding
the wing and so is without a spare hand to shield the mic.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Surfer!]

In message . com>,
writes
>
>Why do the (USA) present rules re ELT's stipulate that they have to be
>mounted and meet FAA specifications, and that personal ones do not meet
>the rules?
>
>If you bale out, you might be a long way from the glider wreckage and
>remain undiscovered if rescuers only have a fix on the glider wreckage.
> Most survivable accidents, bale out or still in cockpit, have the
>pilot still able to push a button and could use a personal ELT. That
>seems to be the thinking of several UK piots who have or are thinking
>about ELT's. I looked at the installation/certification details of a
>fixed one (no approved scheme for it in the UK) and it looks difficult
>to the point of being impractical.

Some ELT's available in the UK can be worn about one's person which
solves the problem of the pilot landing some distance from the glider.
Also, if I personally was off to fly XC I would put my (charged) mobile
phone in a pocket. There isn't reception everywhere in some (hilly)
parts of the UK, and it might pay to take more than one phone (on more
than one provider), but it's a partial solution.

I'd also like to point out that a fix on the glider wreckage is better
than no fix at all.

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

[Graeme Cant]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> We are considering short-handed operations in the early
> hours of the day and will have just a wing runner.
> Is there a standardized phrase or a recommended best
> phrase to radio the tow pilot to begin the launch?
> We need something that is specific for the tow pilot,
> short, unambiguous, and easily understood.

The winch site here uses "Full Power, Full Power" on the field telephone
to the winch.

The other phrases are "Take up slack, take up slack" and "Stop, stop,
stop, stop!"

There's also "Would you like a break?" We don't need to say that twice!

> Please don't say 'Go, Go, Go!' It violates almost
> all the requirements.

Ours might too but it works for us.

GC

[bumper]

True enough, but this ignores that the 121.5 / 243 Mhz units are scheduled
to go to a "no response" status from the COPAS / SARSAT in less than 3
years - - replaced by 406 Mhz units.

Of course the 121.5 Mhz signal will still be useful for search and rescue to
home in on - - if they get notified somehow.

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>>If you bale out, you might be a long way from the glider wreckage and
>>remain undiscovered if rescuers only have a fix on the glider wreckage.
>
>
> With respect to the 121.5 and 243 MHz units, the signal
> can't be localized all that well. My conclusion was that
> the search area for an ELT at the pilot and the search area
> for an ELT at the plane are going to be indistinguishable in
> almost all cases. If I'm far from the plane, then I've
> parachuted out, and at least the deployed chute will help me
> be spotted. I then considered that the mounted ELT carries
> a much heavier battery supply and a better antenna, so it
> could be heard and tracked more easily. Finally, I
> considered the fact that I had to be conscious to activate
> the personal, whereas the mounted unit was self activated in
> the crash.
>
> My conclusion was to go with the mounted ELT. It was harder
> to install, but seemed much more likely to be useful.
>
> --
> T o d d P a t t i s t - "WH" Ventus C
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

[Surfer!]

In message >, T o d d P a t t
i s t > writes
>"bumper" > wrote:
>
>>True enough, but this ignores that the 121.5 / 243 Mhz units are scheduled
>>to go to a "no response" status from the COPAS / SARSAT in less than 3
>>years - - replaced by 406 Mhz units.
>
>That's why I limited my comments to the 121.5/243 units,
>which were the only ones available when I made my choice.
>The 406 units can be localized better, although I still
>doubt that the pilot is likely to be very far outside that
>area.
>
>>Of course the 121.5 Mhz signal will still be useful for search and rescue to
>>home in on - - if they get notified somehow.
>
>There's no doubt that the 406 is a better option. More
>expensive, but the price will fall. As to the personal vs.
>mounted issue, I still think mounted is better, but the
>question is a bit closer.
>
>

The following is worth reading. A GPS-equipped 406 MHz ELT is said to
be accurate to less than 100 yards, without to 1-3 nm. Elsewhere on the
site it mentions that processing of 121.5 MHz & 243 MHz beacons are
ceasing on 1st Feb 2009. If I was buying that would push me towards a
406 MHz ELT.

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf#search=%22aviation%20elt%20121.5%
20406%20comparison%22

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

[bumper]

The "non-mounted" 406 / GPS units (ACR Aquafix, Terrafix, Aerofix) can be
had for $500 after rebate. Useful for other activities too and fits on
parachute harness. Yup, you gotta be conscious to push the buttons.

The built in, G-force activated 406 ELTs remain pricey, even without built
in GPS, though prices will come down I'm sure.

The track record for G-force activated ELTs has not been great. Lots of
false activations and many actual accidents where the ELT has failed to go
off.

For now, I'm flying with my ACR Aquafix and holding off changing out the 121
ELT in my power aircraft until I'm forced to do so or until the prices get
reasonable. If I needed a fixed ELT, there's no way I'd buy a 121.5 now.

http://www.theepirbstore.com/ was good to deal with and offered the best
prices when I purchased mine. I'd call them land-line though, and ask if
they are still offering pilot discounts (the phone price was even lower than
their advertised price a year ago).

bumper


"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> Surfer! > wrote:
>
>>The following is worth reading. A GPS-equipped 406 MHz ELT is said to
>>be accurate to less than 100 yards, without to 1-3 nm. Elsewhere on the
>>site it mentions that processing of 121.5 MHz & 243 MHz beacons are
>>ceasing on 1st Feb 2009. If I was buying that would push me towards a
>>406 MHz ELT.
>
> I have yet to talk to anyone who has purchased the GPS
> equipped version of a 406 MHz ELT. How much are they? If
> the non-GPS version is only 1-3 nm accurate I'd go for the
> mounted non-GPS 406 unit over a personal non-GPS due to the
> 1) better antenna 2) higher capacity battery and 3) impact
> activation. If I was buying the GPS version, the question
> is closer, but I'd still lean towards the mounted version.
>
>
>
>>
>>http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/
>>
>>http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf#search=%22aviation%20elt%20121.5%
>>20406%20comparison%22
>
> --
> T o d d P a t t i s t - "WH" Ventus C
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

[Bill Daniels]

EPIRB's are cool and I'd like to have one. However, I'm also thinking that
there might be an alternative worth considering. In that EPIRB's require
the pilot to activate them after landing (crashing), could a satellite phone
do the same thing for the same cost while offering greater flexibility? A
satellite phone and GPS could alert the retrieve crew to an exact location
and condition of the pilot. Together they could decide whether it is
appropriate to call out the official rescue troops. In these situations,
$1.50 - 1.75 a minute to contact the crew seems cheap.

Satellite phones cost about the same as EPIRB's and can be used for other
critical communications needs. No pre-paid package of minutes need be
bought with the phone if it is intended for emergency use. AFAIK, there are
no FCC regulatory issues using a sat phone from an aircraft so the crew
could be alerted BEFORE the landing.

Howard Banks story in Soaring relating his outlanding adventure in the New
Mexico desert suggests that communication is the biggest problem.

Bill Daniels


"bumper" > wrote in message
...
> The "non-mounted" 406 / GPS units (ACR Aquafix, Terrafix, Aerofix) can be
> had for $500 after rebate. Useful for other activities too and fits on
> parachute harness. Yup, you gotta be conscious to push the buttons.
>
> The built in, G-force activated 406 ELTs remain pricey, even without built
> in GPS, though prices will come down I'm sure.
>
> The track record for G-force activated ELTs has not been great. Lots of
> false activations and many actual accidents where the ELT has failed to go
> off.
>
> For now, I'm flying with my ACR Aquafix and holding off changing out the
> 121 ELT in my power aircraft until I'm forced to do so or until the prices
> get reasonable. If I needed a fixed ELT, there's no way I'd buy a 121.5
> now.
>
> http://www.theepirbstore.com/ was good to deal with and offered the best
> prices when I purchased mine. I'd call them land-line though, and ask if
> they are still offering pilot discounts (the phone price was even lower
> than their advertised price a year ago).
>
> bumper
>
>
> "T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Surfer! > wrote:
>>
>>>The following is worth reading. A GPS-equipped 406 MHz ELT is said to
>>>be accurate to less than 100 yards, without to 1-3 nm. Elsewhere on the
>>>site it mentions that processing of 121.5 MHz & 243 MHz beacons are
>>>ceasing on 1st Feb 2009. If I was buying that would push me towards a
>>>406 MHz ELT.
>>
>> I have yet to talk to anyone who has purchased the GPS
>> equipped version of a 406 MHz ELT. How much are they? If
>> the non-GPS version is only 1-3 nm accurate I'd go for the
>> mounted non-GPS 406 unit over a personal non-GPS due to the
>> 1) better antenna 2) higher capacity battery and 3) impact
>> activation. If I was buying the GPS version, the question
>> is closer, but I'd still lean towards the mounted version.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/
>>>
>>>http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf#search=%22aviation%20elt%20121.5%
>>>20406%20comparison%22
>>
>> --
>> T o d d P a t t i s t - "WH" Ventus C
>> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
>
>