How to Share a Flight Recorder in a Club?

[ContestID67]

Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight recorder
(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the various club ships.
This is to replace the barograph which seems to be continuously out of
certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks, etc, etc.

The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information that
should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that if each pilot
enter his name and ship info before each flight, that the SSA Badge
committee will be happy. However this is tedious (connect to a
computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would be worse than
setting a record only to find that the log is in someone else's name.
Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC but the situation is
definately something to avoid if possible.

What I would like to do is enter generic information into the flight
recorder and let the observer certify that this particular pilot flew
this flight. The generic information would be "Club Name Pilots" and
"Club Name Fleet". I feel that this is similar to the club use of a
barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned by a
parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the best approach.

I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my "generic info" idea
is a good course of action. No response to date. What are your
thoughts? What does your club do?

Thanks, John

[Stefan]

ContestID67 schrieb:

> Nothing would be worse than
> setting a record only to find that the log is in someone else's name.
....
> What I would like to do is enter generic information into the flight
> recorder and let the observer certify that this particular pilot flew
> this flight.

This is how I logged my silver C distance and they approved it. But
then, this wasn't exactly a record...

Stefan

[5Z]

ContestID67 wrote:
> What I would like to do is enter generic information into the flight
> recorder and let the observer certify that this particular pilot flew
> this flight. The generic information would be "Club Name Pilots" and
> "Club Name Fleet". I feel that this is similar to the club use of a
> barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned by a
> parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the best approach.

Blank or generic is fine. The paperwork will just need to indicate the
"discrepancy" in the IGC file.

-Tom

[Henryk Birecki]

If you use GPS_LOG WinCE to make flight declaration to Cambridge 302
and other recorders, it should fill in the appropriate information
based on the information either stored or entered on PDA. If you share
the PDA in the club, GPS_LOG has a club feature that makes
selecting/entering right information for declaration easy.

Henryk Birecki

"ContestID67" > wrote:

>Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight recorder
>(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the various club ships.
> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be continuously out of
>certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks, etc, etc.
>
>The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information that
>should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that if each pilot
>enter his name and ship info before each flight, that the SSA Badge
>committee will be happy. However this is tedious (connect to a
>computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would be worse than
>setting a record only to find that the log is in someone else's name.
>Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC but the situation is
>definately something to avoid if possible.
>
>What I would like to do is enter generic information into the flight
>recorder and let the observer certify that this particular pilot flew
>this flight. The generic information would be "Club Name Pilots" and
>"Club Name Fleet". I feel that this is similar to the club use of a
>barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned by a
>parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the best approach.
>
>I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my "generic info" idea
>is a good course of action. No response to date. What are your
>thoughts? What does your club do?
>
>Thanks, John

[Mark Dickson]

I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.

At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
>Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>recorder
>(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>various club ships.
> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be
>continuously out of
>certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks,
>etc, etc.
>
>The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information
>that
>should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that
>if each pilot
>enter his name and ship info before each flight, that
>the SSA Badge
>committee will be happy. However this is tedious (connect
>to a
>computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would
>be worse than
>setting a record only to find that the log is in someone
>else's name.
>Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC
>but the situation is
>definately something to avoid if possible.
>
>What I would like to do is enter generic information
>into the flight
>recorder and let the observer certify that this particular
>pilot flew
>this flight. The generic information would be 'Club
>Name Pilots' and
>'Club Name Fleet'. I feel that this is similar to
>the club use of a
>barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned
>by a
>parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the
>best approach.
>
>I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my 'generic
>info' idea
>is a good course of action. No response to date.
>What are your
>thoughts? What does your club do?
>
>Thanks, John
>
>

[[email protected]]

Mark Dickson wrote:
> I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
> FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.
>
> At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
> >Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
> >recorder
> >(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
> >various club ships.
>
> >
> >Thanks, John
> >
Horrible choice. I'm flying with 302 for a number of years and
love it. But if I had to do swapping between two or more gliders, well,
my preference would be a.... Barograph.
The entry of the pilot name would be the least of my worry. The
conections of electrical systems and all pneumatics will have to be
unified in all concern gliders. My suggestion would be to colour code
all conections in all used gliders in the uniform way (like the
conections in my computer). Also remember to change 302's polar file
for different gliders.
Good lack, Richard K.

[BTIZ]

"ContestID67" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight recorder
> (Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the various club ships.
> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be continuously out of
> certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks, etc, etc.
>

Is this the proper use of a 302? All that in and out of different gliders,
having to reset the plumbing each time for the static and TE, having to re
accomplish the paper work, installing and removing equipment may require
Form 337s and log book entries by the appropriate mechanic?

There are other "gps data only" loggers that do not tie into the instrument
panel that can be supplied power and put in the "baro box", is easy to move
from ship to ship, declarations with proper names etc, are made from a lap
top and then uploaded to the data logger and handed to the pilot or OO.

BT

[HL Falbaum]

Please tell us you are using a Camb 302A, not a 302.

--
Hartley Falbaum

"ContestID67" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight recorder
> (Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the various club ships.
> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be continuously out of
> certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks, etc, etc.
>
> The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information that
> should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that if each pilot
> enter his name and ship info before each flight, that the SSA Badge
> committee will be happy. However this is tedious (connect to a
> computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would be worse than
> setting a record only to find that the log is in someone else's name.
> Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC but the situation is
> definately something to avoid if possible.
>
> What I would like to do is enter generic information into the flight
> recorder and let the observer certify that this particular pilot flew
> this flight. The generic information would be "Club Name Pilots" and
> "Club Name Fleet". I feel that this is similar to the club use of a
> barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned by a
> parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the best approach.
>
> I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my "generic info" idea
> is a good course of action. No response to date. What are your
> thoughts? What does your club do?
>
> Thanks, John
>

[Ray Lovinggood]

Ditto, Harley.

Passing around a 302 means pulling off pitot, TE, and
static lines, power cable, pda cable (if using pda),
temperature probe, and antenna cable. I suppose if
they use a 'quick disconnect' feature for the pneumatic
lines, they won't have to replace them all of the time.

But it sure seems like a Volkslogger or Colibri or
the new itty bitty EW recorder would have worked very
nicely.

What connections are required for the 302A? Just power
and antenna?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 03:18 24 September 2006, Hl Falbaum wrote:
>Please tell us you are using a Camb 302A, not a 302.
>
>--
>Hartley Falbaum
>
>'ContestID67' wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>>recorder
>> (Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>>various club ships.
>> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be
>>continuously out of
>> certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks,
>>etc, etc.
>>
>> The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information
>>that
>> should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that
>>if each pilot
>> enter his name and ship info before each flight, that
>>the SSA Badge
>> committee will be happy. However this is tedious
>>(connect to a
>> computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would
>>be worse than
>> setting a record only to find that the log is in someone
>>else's name.
>> Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC
>>but the situation is
>> definately something to avoid if possible.
>>
>> What I would like to do is enter generic information
>>into the flight
>> recorder and let the observer certify that this particular
>>pilot flew
>> this flight. The generic information would be 'Club
>>Name Pilots' and
>> 'Club Name Fleet'. I feel that this is similar to
>>the club use of a
>> barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned
>>by a
>> parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the
>>best approach.
>>
>> I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my
>>'generic info' idea
>> is a good course of action. No response to date.
>> What are your
>> thoughts? What does your club do?
>>
>> Thanks, John
>>
>
>
>

[HL Falbaum]

The 302A has power and antenna inputs and gps outputs to drive a PDA. It
can, IIRC, drive an iPAQ with enough current to leave the backlight on, and
it is 5 V so no converter is needed.

The Vario functions of the 302 woould be a real PITA to transfer from ship
to ship in a club environment. Too many risks of mishandling the setup could
lead to disaster.

--
Hartley Falbaum
USA "KF"

"Ray Lovinggood" > wrote in
message ...
> Ditto, Harley.
>
> Passing around a 302 means pulling off pitot, TE, and
> static lines, power cable, pda cable (if using pda),
> temperature probe, and antenna cable. I suppose if
> they use a 'quick disconnect' feature for the pneumatic
> lines, they won't have to replace them all of the time.
>
> But it sure seems like a Volkslogger or Colibri or
> the new itty bitty EW recorder would have worked very
> nicely.
>
> What connections are required for the 302A? Just power
> and antenna?
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
> At 03:18 24 September 2006, Hl Falbaum wrote:
>>Please tell us you are using a Camb 302A, not a 302.
>>
>>--
>>Hartley Falbaum
>>
>>'ContestID67' wrote in message
ups.com...
>>> Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>>>recorder
>>> (Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>>>various club ships.
>>> This is to replace the barograph which seems to be
>>>continuously out of
>>> certification, out of paper, not any good for tasks,
>>>etc, etc.
>>>
>>> The question has arisen about the pilot and ship information
>>>that
>>> should be stored in the flight recorder. I know that
>>>if each pilot
>>> enter his name and ship info before each flight, that
>>>the SSA Badge
>>> committee will be happy. However this is tedious
>>>(connect to a
>>> computer or PDA) and prone to error. Nothing would
>>>be worse than
>>> setting a record only to find that the log is in someone
>>>else's name.
>>> Of course this would be no one's fault but the PIC
>>>but the situation is
>>> definately something to avoid if possible.
>>>
>>> What I would like to do is enter generic information
>>>into the flight
>>> recorder and let the observer certify that this particular
>>>pilot flew
>>> this flight. The generic information would be 'Club
>>>Name Pilots' and
>>> 'Club Name Fleet'. I feel that this is similar to
>>>the club use of a
>>> barograph. It is also similar to a private ship owned
>>>by a
>>> parternership. Maybe leaving the info blank is the
>>>best approach.
>>>
>>> I have placed a request with the SSA to see if my
>>>'generic info' idea
>>> is a good course of action. No response to date.
>>> What are your
>>> thoughts? What does your club do?
>>>
>>> Thanks, John
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[ContestID67]

Sorry boys. Yes, this is a 302A. A 302 would be a horrible choice due
to all the plumbing.

We have placed the 302A in a plastic box with an internal battery. It
is a completely standalone box, no external plumbing of any sort
necessary.

The question is: What does *YOUR* club do? Do they have something to
share amongst members besides a mechanical barograph?

[Papa3]

ContestID67 wrote:
> Sorry boys. Yes, this is a 302A. A 302 would be a horrible choice due
> to all the plumbing.
>
> We have placed the 302A in a plastic box with an internal battery. It
> is a completely standalone box, no external plumbing of any sort
> necessary.
>
> The question is: What does *YOUR* club do? Do they have something to
> share amongst members besides a mechanical barograph?

My club (Aero Club Albatross - ACA) purchased a couple of Colibri
units. Since we have more ships than FRs, we have it set up so each
unit can be plugged in to a standard wiring harness in any club ship.
We have an old desktop PC in the operations shack that some people
use to update the pilot name, but (as weas previously mentioned) the
main thing is to ensure that the badge or record claim specifically
identifies any anomalies in the declaration area and that the OO
explains them (e.g. "Pilot record not updated prior to flight; OO
verified that [name] was the pilot for the flight claimed")

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)
State record keeper for NJ

[John Scott]

Our club uses a Volkslogger. It is small and easily moved between gliders.
The club has a laptop we use with StrePla or SeeYou to load flight
declarations and download flight logs. We have a seperate battery used just
for the volkslogger that is easily stored in the plane, so it can be moved
to club member planes as well as club planes with no impact on the glider
wiring. The Volkslogger display provides a small, but very useful amount of
navigation information. It also will display the altitude being logged so
that you can make sure you don't appear to bust 18,000.

John Scott

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

ContestID67 wrote:
>
> The question is: What does *YOUR* club do? Do they have something to
> share amongst members besides a mechanical barograph?
>
My club, in the UK, has a collection of EW Model A and B loggers. These
do not have external power supplies: they can only operate off their
internal 9v batteries, so there's no issue with powering them.

They work well enough to handle Silver C badge requirements. Club
members usually do the C in one of the club's SZD Juniors, which do not
have GPS or and logger wiring fitted. Height and duration flights are
usually done while soaring locally, so the barometric record and OO
observation of launch and landing does the trick. Distance is usually a
flight to another suitably placed club site, so again the loggers can be
used stand-alone with our OO observing the launch and a landing
declaration signed at the destination club. The club considers that
landing at an unknown club field is a good learning experience. If the
pilot owns a GPS he can carry it to generate a trace but is discouraged
from looking at it during the flight. Once again, we think that map
reading "for real" without an instructor looking over the pilot's
shoulder is a useful bit of experience.

The club's high performance single seaters have GPS fitted (and now have
SDI C3 varios in place of their former M-Navs) and are wired to provide
a GPS data feed to our EW model A and B loggers. This works well for
tasks ranging from the BGA 100 km diploma up to Gold distance and
Diamond Goal flights.

HTH


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

He's not talking about a 302, it's a 302A which is a GPS flight recorder
only. There is no need to enter polar data as there is no speed to fly
director.

I use a 302A in club ships often.

I use my PDA to enter the pilot name and glider ID.

Paul Remde

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Mark Dickson wrote:
>> I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
>> FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.
>>
>> At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
>> >Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>> >recorder
>> >(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>> >various club ships.
>>
>> >
>> >Thanks, John
>> >
> Horrible choice. I'm flying with 302 for a number of years and
> love it. But if I had to do swapping between two or more gliders, well,
> my preference would be a.... Barograph.
> The entry of the pilot name would be the least of my worry. The
> conections of electrical systems and all pneumatics will have to be
> unified in all concern gliders. My suggestion would be to colour code
> all conections in all used gliders in the uniform way (like the
> conections in my computer). Also remember to change 302's polar file
> for different gliders.
> Good lack, Richard K.
>

[BTIZ]

Paul.. will the 302A drive a PDA in-flight with moving map?
BT

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:OKYRg.162075$FQ1.72636@attbi_s71...
> Hi,
>
> He's not talking about a 302, it's a 302A which is a GPS flight recorder
> only. There is no need to enter polar data as there is no speed to fly
> director.
>
> I use a 302A in club ships often.
>
> I use my PDA to enter the pilot name and glider ID.
>
> Paul Remde
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Mark Dickson wrote:
>>> I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
>>> FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.
>>>
>>> At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
>>> >Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>>> >recorder
>>> >(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>>> >various club ships.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Thanks, John
>>> >
>> Horrible choice. I'm flying with 302 for a number of years and
>> love it. But if I had to do swapping between two or more gliders, well,
>> my preference would be a.... Barograph.
>> The entry of the pilot name would be the least of my worry. The
>> conections of electrical systems and all pneumatics will have to be
>> unified in all concern gliders. My suggestion would be to colour code
>> all conections in all used gliders in the uniform way (like the
>> conections in my computer). Also remember to change 302's polar file
>> for different gliders.
>> Good lack, Richard K.
>>
>
>

[BTIZ]

you want a technical answer.. give good details..
if we had known he was talking 302A we would have looked that one up.
everyone (most everyone) knows what a 302 is

I'm sure we all had fun.. and poking at the hapless pilots trying to remove
an install a full 302.

BT

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:OKYRg.162075$FQ1.72636@attbi_s71...
> Hi,
>
> He's not talking about a 302, it's a 302A which is a GPS flight recorder
> only. There is no need to enter polar data as there is no speed to fly
> director.
>
> I use a 302A in club ships often.
>
> I use my PDA to enter the pilot name and glider ID.
>
> Paul Remde
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Mark Dickson wrote:
>>> I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
>>> FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.
>>>
>>> At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
>>> >Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>>> >recorder
>>> >(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>>> >various club ships.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Thanks, John
>>> >
>> Horrible choice. I'm flying with 302 for a number of years and
>> love it. But if I had to do swapping between two or more gliders, well,
>> my preference would be a.... Barograph.
>> The entry of the pilot name would be the least of my worry. The
>> conections of electrical systems and all pneumatics will have to be
>> unified in all concern gliders. My suggestion would be to colour code
>> all conections in all used gliders in the uniform way (like the
>> conections in my computer). Also remember to change 302's polar file
>> for different gliders.
>> Good lack, Richard K.
>>
>
>

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

Yes, the 302A will power a PDA with 5V (plenty for even an iPAQ hx4700) and
it provides pressure altitude and GPS position to the PDA. It does not
provide wind or vario data (as the 302 can).

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:5L_Rg.1082$xI4.915@fed1read11...
> Paul.. will the 302A drive a PDA in-flight with moving map?
> BT
>
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
> news:OKYRg.162075$FQ1.72636@attbi_s71...
>> Hi,
>>
>> He's not talking about a 302, it's a 302A which is a GPS flight recorder
>> only. There is no need to enter polar data as there is no speed to fly
>> director.
>>
>> I use a 302A in club ships often.
>>
>> I use my PDA to enter the pilot name and glider ID.
>>
>> Paul Remde
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Mark Dickson wrote:
>>>> I would have thought the 302 was the worst choice of
>>>> FR for swapping between gliders as it's panel mounted.
>>>>
>>>> At 16:12 23 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
>>>> >Our club has recently purchased an electronic flight
>>>> >recorder
>>>> >(Cambridge 302) to be used by the membership in the
>>>> >various club ships.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >Thanks, John
>>>> >
>>> Horrible choice. I'm flying with 302 for a number of years and
>>> love it. But if I had to do swapping between two or more gliders, well,
>>> my preference would be a.... Barograph.
>>> The entry of the pilot name would be the least of my worry. The
>>> conections of electrical systems and all pneumatics will have to be
>>> unified in all concern gliders. My suggestion would be to colour code
>>> all conections in all used gliders in the uniform way (like the
>>> conections in my computer). Also remember to change 302's polar file
>>> for different gliders.
>>> Good lack, Richard K.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>