shame on garmin??

[houstondan]

i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
audio mixer.

first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
no gps but the music plays just fine.

fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
there might be a problem.

reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
window.

called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.

after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
madder thinking about these guys.

when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
suction cupped to the left side of the front window.

i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
what happened.

dan



i

[Doug[_1_]]

You had a bad antennae and Garmin is shipping you a new one. That will
fix the problem. I am sure Garmin would love it if these problems did
not occur. But they back up their products as well if not better than
anyone. Let us know if the new antennae fixes the problem.

I've had 3 Garmin units and they have all worked well, not flawlessly,
but well. I have had King GPS and it worked, but had more errors and
reboots than my Garmin units.

[Robert M. Gary]

houstondan wrote:
> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.

I wish more companies had such great service. They know they had a
problem and offered to send a replacement (at their cost) to anyone who
called. They didn't even hassle you by making you prove you had the
unit and reporting your serial number. Great service!

-Robert

[Larry Dighera]

On 5 Oct 2006 10:04:34 -0700, "houstondan" >
wrote in om>:

>called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
>any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
>antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
>NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.

Had you filled out the customer registration card and sent it to
Garmin?

[karl gruber[_1_]]

What in the world are you talking about?

Garmin has fantastic customer support!

Karl
"houstondan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> audio mixer.
>
> first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> no gps but the music plays just fine.
>
> fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> there might be a problem.
>
> reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> window.
>
> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>
> after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> madder thinking about these guys.
>
> when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
>
> i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> what happened.
>
> dan
>
>
>
> i
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> houstondan wrote:
>> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
>> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
>> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
>> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>
> I wish more companies had such great service. They know they had a
> problem and offered to send a replacement (at their cost) to anyone who
> called. They didn't even hassle you by making you prove you had the
> unit and reporting your serial number. Great service!
>
I think he believes it's a product-wide fault, rather like an item being
recalled. IIUC, the antenna is often the biggest source of problems with a
GPS. In his case, as soon as he described the symptoms, they had the
solution. Kinda like going to the doctor during flu season; he/she knows
your coming and why.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[houstondan]

this is like talking religion.


of course i am completely registered with garmin and it's very nice
that they responded.

but they knew that the whole production run of those external antennas
was bad yet they did nothing to initiate the recall. there are probably
many people out there who have been happily using the stick thinking
they're just fine. they've got a time bomb in their case.

this was not an isolated case of a few bad units. virtually all those
antennas are bad and they know it and i don't see how you guys can
defend the fact that garmin has not proactively done a recall.


dan


karl gruber wrote:
> What in the world are you talking about?
>
> Garmin has fantastic customer support!
>
> Karl
> "houstondan" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> > more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> > audio mixer.
> >
> > first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> > no gps but the music plays just fine.
> >
> > fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> > there might be a problem.
> >
> > reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> > minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> > of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> > window.
> >
> > called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> > any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> > antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> > NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
> >
> > after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> > madder thinking about these guys.
> >
> > when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> > i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> > feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> > thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> > is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> > necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> > suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
> >
> > i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> > garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> > talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> > think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> > before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> > what happened.
> >
> > dan
> >
> >
> >
> > i
> >

[John Theune]

houstondan wrote:
> this is like talking religion.
>
>
> of course i am completely registered with garmin and it's very nice
> that they responded.
>
> but they knew that the whole production run of those external antennas
> was bad yet they did nothing to initiate the recall. there are probably
> many people out there who have been happily using the stick thinking
> they're just fine. they've got a time bomb in their case.
>
> this was not an isolated case of a few bad units. virtually all those
> antennas are bad and they know it and i don't see how you guys can
> defend the fact that garmin has not proactively done a recall.
>
>
> dan
>
>
> karl gruber wrote:
>> What in the world are you talking about?
>>
>> Garmin has fantastic customer support!
>>
>> Karl
>> "houstondan" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
>>> more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
>>> audio mixer.
>>>
>>> first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
>>> no gps but the music plays just fine.
>>>
>>> fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
>>> there might be a problem.
>>>
>>> reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
>>> minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
>>> of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
>>> window.
>>>
>>> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
>>> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
>>> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
>>> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>>>
>>> after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
>>> madder thinking about these guys.
>>>
>>> when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
>>> i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
>>> feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
>>> thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
>>> is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
>>> necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
>>> suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
>>>
>>> i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
>>> garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
>>> talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
>>> think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
>>> before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
>>> what happened.
>>>
>>> dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i
>>>
>
Just how do you know they are all bad? Could this be a issue where they
know some are bad and if call in with a problem they just replace it?

[Bob Gardner]

If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?

Bob Gardner

"houstondan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> audio mixer.
>
> first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> no gps but the music plays just fine.
>
> fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> there might be a problem.
>
> reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> window.
>
> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>
> after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> madder thinking about these guys.
>
> when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
>
> i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> what happened.
>
> dan
>
>
>
> i
>

[NW_Pilot]

>Kinda like going to the doctor during flu season; he/she knows
> your coming and why.


That reminds me my flu shot is Friday!

[NW_Pilot]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?
>
> Bob Gardner

McDonalds is bad!!! Still not so many complaints! Many other products are
lousy and the company's that make them still have solid names and few
complaints!

[Bob Gardner]

Well, yes, Steve. But I monitor the aviation newsgroups/forums (fora?) as
well as the gps newsgroups, and if there was a big hullabaloo about Garmin
it would certainly become apparent. We all know that satisfied customers
seldom go out of their way to heap praise on their purchases, while unhappy
customers vent to anyone who will listen.

I have owned several Garmin products over the years (and just ordered a 2730
for my car yesterday) and I have never had a problem. Moreover, while I have
had to wait on hold for Garmin tech service for quite awhile (to answer a
question, not to fix a problem), once I got the ear of a tech they spent as
much time with me as necessary to make me happy. Some tech services throw
you overboard after five minutes.

Bob Gardner

"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>
> McDonalds is bad!!! Still not so many complaints! Many other products are
> lousy and the company's that make them still have solid names and few
> complaints!
>

[houstondan]

mr. gardner, with respect, please do not change my argument so it is
easy to deflect. i did not say garmin was bad. they are a good company
and they make good equipment.i said garmin did a bad thing and has
compounded it by not taking the proper action.

to people who have gotten 396 units in the last few months i am
suggesting that they check the external antenna model # with garmin.
once you take the initiative they will do the right thing. now, how is
that not good safety advice??

just be happy they're not selling parachutes.

dan


Bob Gardner wrote:
> Well, yes, Steve. But I monitor the aviation newsgroups/forums (fora?) as
> well as the gps newsgroups, and if there was a big hullabaloo about Garmin
> it would certainly become apparent. We all know that satisfied customers
> seldom go out of their way to heap praise on their purchases, while unhappy
> customers vent to anyone who will listen.
>
> I have owned several Garmin products over the years (and just ordered a 2730
> for my car yesterday) and I have never had a problem. Moreover, while I have
> had to wait on hold for Garmin tech service for quite awhile (to answer a
> question, not to fix a problem), once I got the ear of a tech they spent as
> much time with me as necessary to make me happy. Some tech services throw
> you overboard after five minutes.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?
> >>
> >> Bob Gardner
> >
> > McDonalds is bad!!! Still not so many complaints! Many other products are
> > lousy and the company's that make them still have solid names and few
> > complaints!
> >

[Jose[_1_]]

> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?

Reminds me of the ad: "Parachute for sale. Used only once. No
complaints."

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[.Blueskies.]

Garmin is a really big target and if they are not careful, someone is going to take the market from them....



"houstondan" > wrote in message ups.com...
:i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
: more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
: audio mixer.
:
: first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
: no gps but the music plays just fine.
:
: fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
: there might be a problem.
:
: reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
: minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
: of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
: window.
:
: called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
: any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
: antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
: NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
:
: after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
: madder thinking about these guys.
:
: when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
: i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
: feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
: thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
: is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
: necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
: suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
:
: i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
: garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
: talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
: think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
: before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
: what happened.
:
: dan
:
:
:
: i
:

[Bob Gardner]

Dan, I was replying to nw_pilot, not to you.

Bob

"houstondan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> mr. gardner, with respect, please do not change my argument so it is
> easy to deflect. i did not say garmin was bad. they are a good company
> and they make good equipment.i said garmin did a bad thing and has
> compounded it by not taking the proper action.
>
> to people who have gotten 396 units in the last few months i am
> suggesting that they check the external antenna model # with garmin.
> once you take the initiative they will do the right thing. now, how is
> that not good safety advice??
>
> just be happy they're not selling parachutes.
>
> dan
>
>
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> Well, yes, Steve. But I monitor the aviation newsgroups/forums (fora?) as
>> well as the gps newsgroups, and if there was a big hullabaloo about
>> Garmin
>> it would certainly become apparent. We all know that satisfied customers
>> seldom go out of their way to heap praise on their purchases, while
>> unhappy
>> customers vent to anyone who will listen.
>>
>> I have owned several Garmin products over the years (and just ordered a
>> 2730
>> for my car yesterday) and I have never had a problem. Moreover, while I
>> have
>> had to wait on hold for Garmin tech service for quite awhile (to answer a
>> question, not to fix a problem), once I got the ear of a tech they spent
>> as
>> much time with me as necessary to make me happy. Some tech services throw
>> you overboard after five minutes.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?
>> >>
>> >> Bob Gardner
>> >
>> > McDonalds is bad!!! Still not so many complaints! Many other products
>> > are
>> > lousy and the company's that make them still have solid names and few
>> > complaints!
>> >
>

[karl gruber[_1_]]

HIGHLY doubtful! Garmin owns the market, does a GREAT job, and nobody else
is even in the running.

Karl


".Blueskies." > wrote in message
om...
> Garmin is a really big target and if they are not careful, someone is
> going to take the market from them....
>
>
>
> "houstondan" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> :i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> : more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> : audio mixer.
> :
> : first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> : no gps but the music plays just fine.
> :
> : fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> : there might be a problem.
> :
> : reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> : minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> : of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> : window.
> :
> : called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> : any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> : antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> : NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
> :
> : after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> : madder thinking about these guys.
> :
> : when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> : i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> : feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> : thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> : is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> : necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> : suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
> :
> : i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> : garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> : talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> : think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> : before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> : what happened.
> :
> : dan
> :
> :
> :
> : i
> :
>
>

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> I wish more companies had such great service.

Great service is a good thing, but a better thing is equipment that
doesn't need service to begin with. Having great service doesn't help
when your equipment fails in flight.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Bob Gardner writes:

> If Garmin is so bad, why are there so few complaints?

People are more accepting of problems with computers, even when their
lives are endangered by those problems.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[NW_Pilot]

"karl gruber" > wrote in message
...
> HIGHLY doubtful! Garmin owns the market, does a GREAT job, and nobody else
> is even in the running.
>
> Karl

Uhhh Yes!! For portable units Look at Avmap and a few other Tablet PC based
GPS systems.

[Mxsmanic]

karl gruber writes:

> HIGHLY doubtful! Garmin owns the market, does a GREAT job, and nobody else
> is even in the running.

Famous last words.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[karl gruber[_1_]]

You CLEARLY don't fly airplanes.

EVERYTHING breaks



"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> I wish more companies had such great service.
>
> Great service is a good thing, but a better thing is equipment that
> doesn't need service to begin with. Having great service doesn't help
> when your equipment fails in flight.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[karl gruber[_1_]]

What % of the market do you think they have?


"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> "karl gruber" > wrote in message
> ...
>> HIGHLY doubtful! Garmin owns the market, does a GREAT job, and nobody
>> else is even in the running.
>>
>> Karl
>
> Uhhh Yes!! For portable units Look at Avmap and a few other Tablet PC
> based GPS systems.
>

[NW_Pilot]

"karl gruber" > wrote in message
...
> What % of the market do you think they have?

They have enough % to take large adds in magazines and make a profit! Garmin
is banking on their name from past successes other then aviation! It is to
early to say Garmin owns the aviation market they do have a rather large
marketing team but I don't think that their name will last another 5 years
with the quality of product that is being produced and at a price that one
can buy a better built more reliable item for almost 2/3's the cost!!!

[karl gruber[_1_]]

You could have said the SAME thing 5 years ago, and been wrong then too.

Karl
"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> "karl gruber" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What % of the market do you think they have?
>
> They have enough % to take large adds in magazines and make a profit!
> Garmin is banking on their name from past successes other then aviation!
> It is to early to say Garmin owns the aviation market they do have a
> rather large marketing team but I don't think that their name will last
> another 5 years with the quality of product that is being produced and at
> a price that one can buy a better built more reliable item for almost
> 2/3's the cost!!!
>

[[email protected]]

Bob Gardner wrote:
> Well, yes, Steve. But I monitor the aviation newsgroups/forums (fora?) as

In old Latin, it would be "fori", IIRC from forty years ago.
But we speak English, only partly derived from Latin, so we can do as
we please.

[Dan[_1_]]

Mine was also bad.... they sent me a new one overnight when I told them
I was going on a trip. Bad news that it occured, but they handled it in
a timely and professional manner once I complained.

--Dan


houstondan wrote:
> this is like talking religion.
>
>
> of course i am completely registered with garmin and it's very nice
> that they responded.
>
> but they knew that the whole production run of those external antennas
> was bad yet they did nothing to initiate the recall. there are probably
> many people out there who have been happily using the stick thinking
> they're just fine. they've got a time bomb in their case.
>
> this was not an isolated case of a few bad units. virtually all those
> antennas are bad and they know it and i don't see how you guys can
> defend the fact that garmin has not proactively done a recall.
>
>
> dan
>
>
> karl gruber wrote:
> > What in the world are you talking about?
> >
> > Garmin has fantastic customer support!
> >
> > Karl
> > "houstondan" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> > > more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> > > audio mixer.
> > >
> > > first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> > > no gps but the music plays just fine.
> > >
> > > fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> > > there might be a problem.
> > >
> > > reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> > > minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> > > of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> > > window.
> > >
> > > called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> > > any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> > > antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> > > NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
> > >
> > > after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> > > madder thinking about these guys.
> > >
> > > when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> > > i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> > > feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> > > thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> > > is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> > > necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> > > suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
> > >
> > > i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> > > garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> > > talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> > > think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> > > before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> > > what happened.
> > >
> > > dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > i
> > >

[NW_Pilot]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> Well, yes, Steve. But I monitor the aviation newsgroups/forums (fora?) as
>
> In old Latin, it would be "fori", IIRC from forty years ago.
> But we speak English, only partly derived from Latin, so we can do as
> we please.
>

I don't speak English I speak American people from England speak English :-)

[Mxsmanic]

karl gruber writes:

> You CLEARLY don't fly airplanes.

I have worked with computers.

> EVERYTHING breaks

Only computers break in certain ways--ways that are extremely
dangerous for safety-of-life applications.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > I wish more companies had such great service.
>
> Great service is a good thing, but a better thing is equipment that
> doesn't need service to begin with. Having great service doesn't help
> when your equipment fails in flight.

If you've discovered a way to produce 100% defect free products let me
know. Would you come work for me? I'll pay you $2.5m each year we are
100% defect free.

-Robert

[Dan Luke]

"NW_Pilot" wrote:



>> What % of the market do you think they have?
>
> They have enough % to take large adds in magazines and make a profit!
> Garmin is banking on their name from past successes other then aviation! It
> is to early to say Garmin owns the aviation market they do have a rather
> large marketing team but I don't think that their name will last another 5
> years


Nonsense. Garmin dominates their market. No one else is even in the
running. Honeyell Bendix/King is fading fast from light aviation. If anyone
is liable to be gone in 5 years, it is them.

> with the quality of product that is being produced and at a price that one
> can buy a better built more reliable item for almost 2/3's the cost!!!

None of Garmin's competitors shows any signs of being able to do that, so I
guess it is up to you. What are you going to name your company?


--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Doug[_1_]]

The key is REDUNDANCY. Lets say computer one has a probability of
breaking of .01 (1 out of 100). Computer B has a probability of
breaking of .01. If their probabilities of breaking are independent of
each other then the probability of BOTH breaking is .0001 (1 in
10,000).

Perhaps each G1000 install should be accompanied by a totally seperate
GPS/Com, much like it has totally seperate AI, airspeed and altimeter.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Robert M. Gary writes:
> >
> > > I wish more companies had such great service.
> >
> > Great service is a good thing, but a better thing is equipment that
> > doesn't need service to begin with. Having great service doesn't help
> > when your equipment fails in flight.
>
> If you've discovered a way to produce 100% defect free products let me
> know. Would you come work for me? I'll pay you $2.5m each year we are
> 100% defect free.
>
> -Robert

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> karl gruber writes:
>
>> You CLEARLY don't fly airplanes.
>
> I have worked with computers.
>

And you obviously weren't very good at it if all you make a month is $647.

[Robert M. Gary]

Doug wrote:
> The key is REDUNDANCY. Lets say computer one has a probability of
> breaking of .01 (1 out of 100). Computer B has a probability of
> breaking of .01. If their probabilities of breaking are independent of
> each other then the probability of BOTH breaking is .0001 (1 in
> 10,000).
>
> Perhaps each G1000 install should be accompanied by a totally seperate
> GPS/Com, much like it has totally seperate AI, airspeed and altimeter.

It does. There are two GPS units, with two antenna. The antenna are
located in the base of the comm antennas. (some students get confused
by the GPS antenna behind those, but its just for XM weather).

Before take off part of the take off checklist is to go to the aux page
and see the signal strength for both GPS units. I've had the GPS fail
in flight and only noticed a "ALERT" pop up, but no change in service.

-Robert, G1000 CFII

[Robert M. Gary]

> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.

Aside from the major recalls, your car manufactor doesn't call you to
tell you there is a defect. Take your car in for service and ask the
service person how many software updates there are for your car. For a
new car there is usually at least one per 6 months.

-Robert

[Maule Driver]

I've had a couple of problems with my 396. 2 problems required the
current version of the SW to resolve. One persistent one required a
mech replace.

I was ****ed each time but in the end, I realized I rec'd excellent
service in all respects.

But am I missing something? - it is a handheld and nothing in flight
should be at risk if this handheld device fails. The steam guages are
primary and secondary so to speak - the 396 is gravy, though extremely
tasty.

Is it legal to wire it into your power and intercom? I kept my
'installation' to using the standard plugs and tucking the wires away as
best I could.

BTW, I'm more than happy with my Garmin 300XL. That old clunker hasn't
even burped since it's IFR cert'd installation.

houstondan wrote:
> i paid a bit over 2-grand for a shiny new 396. spent hours and lots
> more money learning it and getting it wired to the ships power and
> audio mixer.
>
> first time out, on a bright clear day, the thing loses signal. no wx,
> no gps but the music plays just fine.
>
> fortunately, since i hang around here and the cessna clubs i sorta knew
> there might be a problem.
>
> reboot...problem solved. for about 2 minutes. reboot six times in 30
> minutes. fortunately for me i'm in familiar territory, my ship has lots
> of old dumb guages and i've got a big lowrance 1000 stuck to the
> window.
>
> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>
> after reading the nw-pilot experience i'm just getting madder and
> madder thinking about these guys.
>
> when i started out flying, i bought a cheap little lowrance
> i-finder.designed for hiking. found out it has a nearest airport
> feature. works like a charm every time. i've mentioned before that i
> thought lowrance must be a front for the russian army cause their stuff
> is simple, dead dependable and makes a decent weapon or hammer if
> necessary. bought a lowrance 1000 and as i mentioned above, it's
> suction cupped to the left side of the front window.
>
> i don't know what the final report on nw-pilot is going to show but, if
> garmin is going to be the "aviation standard" they better get busy
> talking to their customers and fixing the problems. matter of fact, i
> think they should get someone working this board and the "type-clubs"
> before they find themselves having lunch with general motors wondering
> what happened.
>
> dan
>
>
>
> i
>

[Peter Clark]

On 6 Oct 2006 10:08:22 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>It does. There are two GPS units, with two antenna. The antenna are
>located in the base of the comm antennas. (some students get confused
>by the GPS antenna behind those, but its just for XM weather).

Actually, on the newer installs the LH antenna fin is an
XM/COM/GPS-in-one. RH fin is just COM/GPS and the only other
protuberance on the upper center fuselage is the OAT probe.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> If you've discovered a way to produce 100% defect free products let me
> know. Would you come work for me? I'll pay you $2.5m each year we are
> 100% defect free.

That's about what it might cost, depending on the project. But just
because it is expensive doesn't mean it can be sacrificed for
safety-of-life applications.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Doug writes:

> The key is REDUNDANCY. Lets say computer one has a probability of
> breaking of .01 (1 out of 100). Computer B has a probability of
> breaking of .01. If their probabilities of breaking are independent of
> each other then the probability of BOTH breaking is .0001 (1 in
> 10,000).

The problem is common-mode failures. If one computer has a software
bug, the other one will have it, too, unless the two computers contain
different software. So just duplicating parts won't necessarily help.
You just end up with two G1000's rebooting instead of one.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Thomas Borchert]

Houstondan,

> but they knew that the whole production run of those external antennas
> was bad
>

And you know that from them shipping a new antenna without asking the
serial? Come on!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> called garnin and get this: they never even asked my serial number or
>> any purchase info. just what address do we send the replacement
>> antenna. they absolutely knew they shipped junk and never told me.
>> NOT ONE WORD FROM THEM TILL I CALLED.
>
> Aside from the major recalls, your car manufactor doesn't call you to
> tell you there is a defect. Take your car in for service and ask the
> service person how many software updates there are for your car. For a
> new car there is usually at least one per 6 months.
>
> -Robert
>

Exactly, there are currently 36 service bulletins on my Honda Ridgeline.