Poll: electrical connector crimpers/dies

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

I'm wondering which "professional" electrical connector crimpers are amoung
the groups favorites and most used.

I've got a couple pair of "no-name service crimpers" but I'd like to buy a
pair of high quality crimpers for 10awg-26awg terminal crimps.

Thanks!
Jim

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> I'm wondering which "professional" electrical connector crimpers are amoung
> the groups favorites and most used.
>
> I've got a couple pair of "no-name service crimpers" but I'd like to buy a
> pair of high quality crimpers for 10awg-26awg terminal crimps.

You can never go wrong with Klein. (Is that how it is spelled? )
--
Jim in NC

[Skrud]

I use the AMP ProCrimper II

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> I'm wondering which "professional" electrical connector crimpers are
amoung
> the groups favorites and most used.
>
> I've got a couple pair of "no-name service crimpers" but I'd like to buy a
> pair of high quality crimpers for 10awg-26awg terminal crimps.
>
> Thanks!
> Jim
>
>
>

[abripl[_1_]]

Even with high quality crimpers I don't trust the connection and will
normally soldier the wire to the terminal in addition to the crimp. I
have seen one too many crimps get loose to depend on them. Your
electrical connections are on top of the critical list in flying
safety.... poor wiring can cause equipment failures, electrical fires,
igniting leaky fuel, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SQ2000 canard http://www.abri.com/sq2000

Jim Burns wrote:
> I'm wondering which "professional" electrical connector crimpers are amoung
> the groups favorites and most used.
>
> I've got a couple pair of "no-name service crimpers" but I'd like to buy a
> pair of high quality crimpers for 10awg-26awg terminal crimps.
>
> Thanks!
> Jim

[Robert Murray]

Either AMP "red & blues" P/N 59250; or Daniels HX4 with Y501 dies. The
Daniels tools are often on eBay, and reasonably priced as pro tools go. The
AMP crimper is harder to find and more expensive. The AMP crimpers are in
my AOG bag, and the Daniels' are in the big toolbox because they can be used
on coax too.

Bob

[Dave[_2_]]

"abripl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Even with high quality crimpers I don't trust the connection and will
> normally soldier the wire to the terminal in addition to the crimp. I
> have seen one too many crimps get loose to depend on them. Your

I used to think this way. The fact is that a properly crimped terminal is
superior to a soldered one for many reasons. Soldering is an art (a dying
one) that few have mastered. To get a proper connection without wicking
solder past the point where wires flex and avoid cold joints is hard for
inexperienced persons. Crimped terminals are easier to learn. I use an AMP
crimper for almost all my terminating work now and will when I wire the
plane. It's been proven over and over that crimped terminals are gastight
and reliable more often than soldered. You still have to learn what you're
doing.

There are a couple of sites that explore this and offer opinion. As you may
expect they are not united, many prefer soldering. Try
http://www.areoelectric.com for some insight.

[tscheevel]

The following has a short discussion about wire, terminals, and
crimpers. Scroll about 1/3 of the way down the page:

http://flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html

Jim Burns wrote:
> I'm wondering which "professional" electrical connector crimpers are amoung
> the groups favorites and most used.
>
> I've got a couple pair of "no-name service crimpers" but I'd like to buy a
> pair of high quality crimpers for 10awg-26awg terminal crimps.
>
> Thanks!
> Jim

[abripl[_1_]]

> Crimped terminals are easier to learn.....
Thats probably the main reason why so many in aviation use it. I can
see the average person trying to solder with a clunky, 100W, steaming
iron and doing a bad job. With crimping there is "little" to learn. But
soldering is hardly a dying art. Zillions of hams, electronic buffs,
use it. A decent temperature controlled soldering iron with a little
practice will prevent wicking past the terminal into the wires - and
not really a problem in most cases. Cold joints can be inspected and
redone. Two big reasons for soldering: 1. Vibration - a real problem in
aviation, promotes crimps loosening. 2. Oxydation/Corrosion, especially
with disimilar metals - seen lots of corroded crimps while soldered
terminals are still holding.

[Dave[_2_]]

While solder may be alive and well in terms of soldering solid lead
components to a PCB, that is not what we are talking about. Soldering
stranded wire is a completely different thing and it is absolutely falling
out of fashion. Partly due to the skill needed to solder without wicking
past the strain relief, partly economics in the case of manufacturers. It
also cannot be "redone" as once the solder is into the wire you can't get it
out. I'm no saint in these matters, I soldered two wires together in a butt
joint yesterday. I'm simply giving you the truth, the joint I just made
would generally be better, and more reliable in a properly done crimped
connector. I've been soldering joints for over 35 years for a living and I
know how to do it, but I've learned through experience and industry
demonstration that crimping is a better way.

It's a matter of belief, if you absolutely have faith that you can do it
better than Boeing and all the other factories who am I to disagree with
you.

As for your list, vibration cannot loosen a crimp, but will break solid wire
or wire made solid with solder in short order. Corrosion, a properly done
crimp is absolutely gas tight, and will not corrode. If you'd like to
compare badly soldered VS badly crimped you're on your own, there are too
many variables when you do it wrong.


"abripl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>> Crimped terminals are easier to learn.....
> That's probably the main reason why so many in aviation use it. I can
> see the average person trying to solder with a clunky, 100W, steaming
> iron and doing a bad job. With crimping there is "little" to learn. But
> soldering is hardly a dying art. Zillions of hams, electronic buffs,
> use it. A decent temperature controlled soldering iron with a little
> practice will prevent wicking past the terminal into the wires - and
> not really a problem in most cases. Cold joints can be inspected and
> redone. Two big reasons for soldering: 1. Vibration - a real problem in
> aviation, promotes crimps loosening. 2. Oxydation/Corrosion, especially
> with disimilar metals - seen lots of corroded crimps while soldered
> terminals are still holding.
>

[Bill Daniels]

I have always soldered, cleaned and covered with heatshrink. I have NEVER
had a problem with soldered electrical terminals. On the other hand, I have
had many problems with crimped terminals done by others. As I get older, I
need one of those soldering jigs with a BIG magnifying glass.

Soldering is easy to learn and much more secure than crimped terminals.

Bill Daniels

"abripl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>> Crimped terminals are easier to learn.....
> Thats probably the main reason why so many in aviation use it. I can
> see the average person trying to solder with a clunky, 100W, steaming
> iron and doing a bad job. With crimping there is "little" to learn. But
> soldering is hardly a dying art. Zillions of hams, electronic buffs,
> use it. A decent temperature controlled soldering iron with a little
> practice will prevent wicking past the terminal into the wires - and
> not really a problem in most cases. Cold joints can be inspected and
> redone. Two big reasons for soldering: 1. Vibration - a real problem in
> aviation, promotes crimps loosening. 2. Oxydation/Corrosion, especially
> with disimilar metals - seen lots of corroded crimps while soldered
> terminals are still holding.
>

[.Blueskies.]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message ...
:
: Soldering is easy to learn and much more secure than crimped terminals.
:
: Bill Daniels
:


That is just not true. The reality is that you do need to have the correct crimping tool, which is the topic of this
thread, and with those correct tools, the connection will be superior to a soldered connection. I solder my connections
because I do not have the correct crimping tools, not because it is more secure...

Dan DeVillers...

[abripl[_1_]]

> I solder my connections because I do not have the correct crimping tools,
> not because it is more secure...

Did you have correct crimping tools in the past to verify they are
superior?

[.Blueskies.]

"abripl" > wrote in message oups.com...
:
: > I solder my connections because I do not have the correct crimping tools,
: > not because it is more secure...
:
: Did you have correct crimping tools in the past to verify they are
: superior?
:

Yes, in the many (electrical/electronic) companies where I have worked.

[Peter Dohm]

".Blueskies." > wrote in message
...
>
> "abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> :
> : > I solder my connections because I do not have the correct crimping
tools,
> : > not because it is more secure...
> :
> : Did you have correct crimping tools in the past to verify they are
> : superior?
> :
>
> Yes, in the many (electrical/electronic) companies where I have worked.
>
>
Excellent point, because there are wear limits and approved methods of
testing connections, both for security and to verify that the correct
crimper was used. When applied correctly, the result is a "cold weld",
similar to that achieved in "wire wrap", rather than a gas tight seal.

I haven't checked in a *long* time, and don't have reference material
currently in my posession; but it stands to reason that any effective
testing of the security of a termination/connection would constitute
destructive testing. Therefore, if one is really dedicated to verifying
that the "secure", one would need to make a number of sample
connections--both before and after the actual production run for the
airplane project--and make all of the appropriate measurements on the
samples.

A partial list of good information sources might include:
Amp (for their terminals and related crimpers)
Burndy (for their terminals and related crimpers)
The Boeing Workmanship Manual
The McDonnell-Douglas Workmanship Manual (presumably out of print)
The ATA Spec. 100 Manual
(There are sure to be government publications as well, but I don't
know the titles)

Alternatively, soldering has been used successfully for many years, but
*requires* that the strain relief extend beyond the farthest point to which
solder may be wicked. This nearly always means larger, heavier, and more
expensive connectors and/or terminal strips.

Therefore, if you are trying to "only add lightness", avoid solder!

Peter

[Peter Dohm]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
. ..
> ".Blueskies." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "abripl" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > :
> > : > I solder my connections because I do not have the correct crimping
> tools,
> > : > not because it is more secure...
> > :
> > : Did you have correct crimping tools in the past to verify they are
> > : superior?
> > :
> >
> > Yes, in the many (electrical/electronic) companies where I have worked.
> >
> >
> Excellent point, because there are wear limits and approved methods of
> testing connections, both for security and to verify that the correct
> crimper was used. When applied correctly, the result is a "cold weld",
> similar to that achieved in "wire wrap", rather than a gas tight seal.
>
> I haven't checked in a *long* time, and don't have reference material
> currently in my posession; but it stands to reason that any effective
> testing of the security of a termination/connection would constitute
> destructive testing. Therefore, if one is really dedicated to verifying
> that the "secure", one would need to make a number of sample
> connections--both before and after the actual production run for the
> airplane project--and make all of the appropriate measurements on the
> samples.
>
> A partial list of good information sources might include:
> Amp (for their terminals and related crimpers)
> Burndy (for their terminals and related crimpers)
> The Boeing Workmanship Manual
> The McDonnell-Douglas Workmanship Manual (presumably out of print)
> The ATA Spec. 100 Manual
> (There are sure to be government publications as well, but I don't
> know the titles)
>
> Alternatively, soldering has been used successfully for many years, but
> *requires* that the strain relief extend beyond the farthest point to
which
> solder may be wicked. This nearly always means larger, heavier, and more
> expensive connectors and/or terminal strips.
>
> Therefore, if you are trying to "only add lightness", avoid solder!
>
> Peter
>
>
I see, with regret, that I neglected to include my final comment; which is:

I have not been working on airplanes lately; but when I do have to make
connections, I do solder for the same reason and with the same limitations
that .Blueskies already cited.

Peter

[Dan[_2_]]

Robert Murray wrote:
> Either AMP "red & blues" P/N 59250; or Daniels HX4 with Y501 dies. The
> Daniels tools are often on eBay, and reasonably priced as pro tools go. The
> AMP crimper is harder to find and more expensive. The AMP crimpers are in
> my AOG bag, and the Daniels' are in the big toolbox because they can be used
> on coax too.
>
> Bob
>
>
I use Daniels HX-4 and did so in the service with good results. Like
any other tool it must be inspected from time to time using the correct
GO-NO - GO gauge. As for connectors I prefer cannon plugs with crimp
pins. Again I use Daniels tools for this too.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Robert Murray]

"Dan" > wrote in message
news:e4EWg.6357$eZ4.5677@dukeread06...
> I use Daniels HX-4 and did so in the service with good results. Like
> any other tool it must be inspected from time to time using the correct
> GO-NO - GO gauge. As for connectors I prefer cannon plugs with crimp
> pins. Again I use Daniels tools for this too.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Yep! Faster and no cold solder joints to chase.
Bob

[Dan[_2_]]

Robert Murray wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> news:e4EWg.6357$eZ4.5677@dukeread06...
>> I use Daniels HX-4 and did so in the service with good results. Like
>> any other tool it must be inspected from time to time using the correct
>> GO-NO - GO gauge. As for connectors I prefer cannon plugs with crimp
>> pins. Again I use Daniels tools for this too.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Yep! Faster and no cold solder joints to chase.
> Bob
>
>
You haven't lived until you have had to repair a solder joint in the
middle of a 100 pin cannon plug:)


Then again, it's a good idea to lock your work away from the geniuses
who want to help. I once spent 16 hours cutting wires to length, marking
them and soldering on end into one of three bulkhead disconnects. Please
note I said I cut the wires to length. The other ends had to go to
various points on an instrument panel. While I was home sound asleep
some genius decided to tidy everything up by cutting everything to one
length. Would anyone venture a guess as to my reaction when I showed up
for my next shift? Go ahead, guess.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Peter Dohm]

"Dan" > wrote in message
news:_8PWg.6620$eZ4.4208@dukeread06...
> Robert Murray wrote:
> > "Dan" > wrote in message
> > news:e4EWg.6357$eZ4.5677@dukeread06...
> >> I use Daniels HX-4 and did so in the service with good results. Like
> >> any other tool it must be inspected from time to time using the correct
> >> GO-NO - GO gauge. As for connectors I prefer cannon plugs with crimp
> >> pins. Again I use Daniels tools for this too.
> >>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >
> > Yep! Faster and no cold solder joints to chase.
> > Bob
> >
> >
> You haven't lived until you have had to repair a solder joint in the
> middle of a 100 pin cannon plug:)
>
>
> Then again, it's a good idea to lock your work away from the geniuses
> who want to help. I once spent 16 hours cutting wires to length, marking
> them and soldering on end into one of three bulkhead disconnects. Please
> note I said I cut the wires to length. The other ends had to go to
> various points on an instrument panel. While I was home sound asleep
> some genius decided to tidy everything up by cutting everything to one
> length. Would anyone venture a guess as to my reaction when I showed up
> for my next shift? Go ahead, guess.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Well, you're out and about. You obviously didn't over react. <G>

Peter
(Equally mild mannered)

[Dan[_2_]]

Peter Dohm wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> news:_8PWg.6620$eZ4.4208@dukeread06...
>> Robert Murray wrote:
>>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>>> news:e4EWg.6357$eZ4.5677@dukeread06...
>>>> I use Daniels HX-4 and did so in the service with good results. Like
>>>> any other tool it must be inspected from time to time using the correct
>>>> GO-NO - GO gauge. As for connectors I prefer cannon plugs with crimp
>>>> pins. Again I use Daniels tools for this too.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>> Yep! Faster and no cold solder joints to chase.
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>> You haven't lived until you have had to repair a solder joint in the
>> middle of a 100 pin cannon plug:)
>>
>>
>> Then again, it's a good idea to lock your work away from the geniuses
>> who want to help. I once spent 16 hours cutting wires to length, marking
>> them and soldering on end into one of three bulkhead disconnects. Please
>> note I said I cut the wires to length. The other ends had to go to
>> various points on an instrument panel. While I was home sound asleep
>> some genius decided to tidy everything up by cutting everything to one
>> length. Would anyone venture a guess as to my reaction when I showed up
>> for my next shift? Go ahead, guess.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Well, you're out and about. You obviously didn't over react. <G>
>
> Peter
> (Equally mild mannered)
>
>
What saved that jerk's life, besides being sent home before I got
in, was he spent the day cutting and marking new wires. I cleaned up the
connectors and started over. Day shift, I was working swings, installed
the other ends and I got to put the instrument panel in the airplane.
It's truly amazing how many circuit breakers can pop at one time :) The
ADI and HSI each had 50 something pin connectors I got to redo.
Instruments that were supposed to have red lighting had white lighting,
how does one mess up a 3 pin connector? Usually they wanted 2 weeks
notice for a leave request. My shop chief suggested I take a week off
"starting tomorrow." And that, your honour, is why I didn't get life in
Leavenworth.

As an aside crimp connectors aren't dummy proof either. At another
base a decade later a SSgt was happily soldering crimp pins before
inserting them into a cannon plug on a C-130. She had never been taught
to use a crimper and didn't know she was supposed to use one. I was an
avionics shift chief at the time and went out to check on her an hour
before shift change. She had spent several hours working on a 54 pin
connector that should have taken 30 minutes. The look on her face when I
showed her how to use a crimper was priceless.

And that's trained personnel, some of the work I have seen on home
builts makes me cringe.


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote
>
> And that's trained personnel, some of the work I have seen on home builts
> makes me cringe.

Do you know of a text, or other reading, that one could study to learn out about
how to do wiring up to your specifications?
--
Jim in NC

[Dan[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote
>>
>> And that's trained personnel, some of the work I have seen on home
>> builts makes me cringe.
>
> Do you know of a text, or other reading, that one could study to learn
> out about how to do wiring up to your specifications?

I used USAF T.O. 1-1A-14. The FAA A.C. (43 series ?)(for the life of
me I can't recall which one) is similar. None of this is a good
substitute for training and practice. I had some bad habits to unlearn
when I started tech school.

There are a lot of little things shown which aren't obvious on first
glance. An example: when soldering a wire into a pin on a connector the
length of exposed wire outside the pin must be less than the diameter of
the conductor. The reason is so a loose (for whatever reason) wire can't
make contact with the conductor. OK, so I am not good at explaining
things, but the basic assumption is that which can go wrong eventually will.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired