A-1D

[M. B.]

Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
airplane.

-MB

[Phil Rhodes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I wish
I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a short
runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own story, and it
was a good one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.

"M. B." > wrote in message
news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
> airplane.
>
> -MB
>
>

[Ed Rasimus[_1_]]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:26:36 -0700, "Phil Rhodes"
> wrote:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
>I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I wish
>I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a short
>runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own story, and it
>was a good one.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
>Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>
>"M. B." > wrote in message
>news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
>> airplane.
>>
>> -MB
>>
>>
>
You might try this one at Brian Hukee's Skyraider page:

http://skyraider.org/skyassn/fisher/fishermoh.htm

After you read the text of the MOH citation, be sure to scroll down
and read the radio transcript of the landing.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Phil Rhodes]

Thank you, that was most interesting.


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:26:36 -0700, "Phil Rhodes"
> > wrote:
>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
>>I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I
>>wish
>>I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a short
>>runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own story, and
>>it
>>was a good one.
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
>>Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>>
>>"M. B." > wrote in message
>>news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about
>>> this
>>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
>>> airplane.
>>>
>>> -MB
>>>
>>>
>>
> You might try this one at Brian Hukee's Skyraider page:
>
> http://skyraider.org/skyassn/fisher/fishermoh.htm
>
> After you read the text of the MOH citation, be sure to scroll down
> and read the radio transcript of the landing.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Bob McKellar]

"Phil Rhodes" > wrote in message
. ..
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
> I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I
> wish I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a
> short runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own
> story, and it was a good one.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
> Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>
> "M. B." > wrote in message
> news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
>> airplane.
>>
>> -MB
>>
Here's a picture of Fisher's plane in Dayton, including a link to the Museum
page.

(The AF Museum just redid their site and things are hard to find on it.)

Bob McKellar

[Bob McKellar]

"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Phil Rhodes" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
>> I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I
>> wish I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a
>> short runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own
>> story, and it was a good one.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
>> Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>>
>> "M. B." > wrote in message
>> news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about
>>> this
>>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
>>> airplane.
>>>
>>> -MB
>>>
> Here's a picture of Fisher's plane in Dayton, including a link to the
> Museum page.
>
> (The AF Museum just redid their site and things are hard to find on it.)
>
> Bob McKellar
Oops, dropped the link

http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/Chatfield/132649.htm

[Jim Carriere]

Bob McKellar wrote:
> "Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Phil Rhodes" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
>>> I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I
>>> wish I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a
>>> short runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own
>>> story, and it was a good one.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
>>> Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>>>
>>> "M. B." > wrote in message
>>> news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>>>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about
>>>> this
>>>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
>>>> airplane.
>>>>
>>>> -MB
>>>>
>> Here's a picture of Fisher's plane in Dayton, including a link to the
>> Museum page.
>>
>> (The AF Museum just redid their site and things are hard to find on it.)
>>
>> Bob McKellar
> Oops, dropped the link
>
> http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/Chatfield/132649.htm

Does that aircraft have both a US Navy BuNo _and_ a US Air Force serial
number? The number 132649 is in about the right ballpark for an early
1950s vintage Navy A-1 (later example)

http://broadcast.illuminatedtech.com/display/story.cfm?bp=109&sid=8085

[Mike Weeks]

Jim Carriere wrote:
> Bob McKellar wrote:

> > Oops, dropped the link
> >
> > http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/Chatfield/132649.htm
>
> Does that aircraft have both a US Navy BuNo _and_ a US Air Force serial
> number? The number 132649 is in about the right ballpark for an early
> 1950s vintage Navy A-1 (later example)

It's listed as being an AD-5 ... <g>

MW

>
> http://broadcast.illuminatedtech.com/display/story.cfm?bp=109&sid=8085

[Bob McKellar]

"Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bob McKellar wrote:
>> "Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Phil Rhodes" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_Skyraider
>>>> I heard the story of Major B. F. Fisher on the Military Channel, and I
>>>> wish I could find a link that covers his Medal of Honor take off on a
>>>> short runway, under fire, with Major Meyers aboard. He tells his own
>>>> story, and it was a good one.
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_F._Fisher
>>>> Yes, it must be quite an aircraft.
>>>>
>>>> "M. B." > wrote in message
>>>> news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
>>>>> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about
>>>>> this
>>>>> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a
>>>>> good
>>>>> airplane.
>>>>>
>>>>> -MB
>>>>>
>>> Here's a picture of Fisher's plane in Dayton, including a link to the
>>> Museum page.
>>>
>>> (The AF Museum just redid their site and things are hard to find on it.)
>>>
>>> Bob McKellar
>> Oops, dropped the link
>>
>> http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/Chatfield/132649.htm
>
> Does that aircraft have both a US Navy BuNo _and_ a US Air Force serial
> number? The number 132649 is in about the right ballpark for an early
> 1950s vintage Navy A-1 (later example)
>
> http://broadcast.illuminatedtech.com/display/story.cfm?bp=109&sid=8085


Here is a partial listing from Joe Baugher's site:

132637/132728 Douglas AD-5 Skyraider
c/n 9494/9543. Redesignated A-1E in 1962.

132643 to South Vietnam AF
132647 to South Vietnam AF
132649 to USAF as 52-132649. Used in rescue of downed airman at Special
Forces camp
at A Shau, for which Maj Bernard G. Fisher was awarded the Medal of
Honor. This plane
is now on display at WPAFB Museum, Dayton, OH. The plane at Hill AFB,
UT is actually
a VNAF Skyraider made up to look like this aircraft.
132652 to South Vietnam AF


Joe is the undisputed guru of Bu.Nos and Serial Numbers.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/

BTW, Andreas Parsch is the designation guru
http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/

I myself am no guru, but I can follow a link!

Bob McKellar

[R Leonard]

M. B. wrote:
> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
> airplane.
>
> -MB

"Max Trap" what?

Weight?

Whipping out my trusty AD-4/AD-4Q Pilot's Handbook . . .

I note that in the section "Normal Operating Instructions" on page
19:

c. The maximum recommended gross weights for various operations are as
follows:
Landing, smooth paved runways - 19,000 lbs.
Landing, rough runways - 16,800 lbs.
Catapulting - 19,500 lbs.
Arrested Landing (pilot's qualified with AD aircraft) - 17,000 lbs.
Carrier qualification landing - 15,600 lbs.

Speed?

Also on page 19, under Airspeed Limitation-(Knots-IAS) for lowering
landing flaps, the speed listed is 130 knots.

On page 20 there is a brief discussion of carrier landing aimed at
limiting damage to the airframe:

"l. In the interest of minimizing the severity of carrier landings
from the standpoint of lessening vertical impact loads upon the
airframe structure, and to as great an extent as may be practicable and
consistent with all other factors that determine the manner in which
carrier landings shall be made, it is urged that any combination of
conditions resulting in a high "cut" height and a low airspeed at the
time of "cut" be avoided. The following conditions for carrier landings
are recommended:
(a) The height above the deck at the time of "cut" should not be
greater than 25 feet.
(b) The airspeed at the time of "cut" should not be less than 12
knots above power-off stalling speed.
(c) In general, carrier landing approach should be slightly fast and
flat. Properly flared landings substantially reduce the severity of
landing loads. Fully stalled landing should be avoided.
m. Adherence to the above recommendations and restrictions is
mandatory."

And on page 29 there is:

2-74. APPROACH.
2-75. DESCENT.
a. Landing gross weight - Refer to paragraph 2-2c.
b. Shoulder harness and safety belt - "LOCKED."
c. Tail wheel-"LOCK" (for field)-"UNLOCK" (for carrier).
d. Fuel booster pump - "ON."
e. Fuel selector - "MAIN."
f. Horizontal stabilizer - "NOSE UP" as required.
g. Trim tabs - As desired.
h. Cowl flaps-"AUTO."
i. Check oil cooler door switch - "AUTO."
j. Mixture - "RICH."
k. Supercharger - "LOW" blower and locked.
1. Dive brakes - "CLOSE."
m. Master armament switch - "OFF."
n. Gun charger switch - "OFF."
o. Carburetor air - "DIRECT."

NOTE
Do not return from "ALTERNATE" air to "DIRECT" air for approach or
landing under icing conditions.

p. Propeller - 2400 rpm.
q. Cockpit canopy - Locked "OPEN."
r. Exterior lights - "DIM" for night carrier landings to prevent
blinding the landing signal officer.

2-76. FINAL APPROACH.

NOTE
Lower wheels and flaps when IAS is below 130 knots (150 mph).

a. Landing gear control - "WHEELS DOWN." Check wheels and flaps
position indicator for full down and latched position.

NOTE
A red light in the landing gear control handle will come on and remain
on until all three gears are in the latched down position.

b. Wing flaps control - As described for landing conditions (see
paragraph 2-77). Note position of flaps on wheels and flaps position
indicator. Leave control at "DOWN" for flaps full down; return control
from "DOWN" to "STOP" when flaps reach desired partial down position.
c. Make a normal approach at approximately 75 to 80 knots (86 to 92
mph) IAS.

2-77. LANDING.

2-78. NORMAL LANDINGS.

2-79. SHORE LANDINGS. Use flaps as desired. Full flaps (40°) should
normally be used. Lesser flap settings will result in increased landing
speed, and hence increased ground run.

2-80. CARRIER LANDINGS. Lower the arresting hook. Full flaps (40°)
should be used for all carrier landings. Standard carrier approach and
landing procedures should be followed.



And the power off stalling speeds mentioned above can be found on the
chart on page 61 and if you can stand an eyeball interpretation:

Gross Weight / Stall Speed Flaps/Gear Up
12000 / 75.5 kts
13000 / 79 kts
14000 / 82 kts
15000 / 84.5 kts
16000 / 87.5 kts
17000 / 90 kts
18000 / 92.5 kts

Gross Weight / Stall Speed Flaps 25 Gear Down
12000 / 69 kts
13000 / 72 kts
14000 / 75 kts
15000 / 77.5 kts
16000 / 80 kts
17000 / 82.5 kts
18000 / 85 kts

Gross Weight / Stall Speed Flaps Full Gear Down
12000 / 66 kts
13000 / 68 kts
14000 / 71.5 kts
15000 / 73.5 kts
16000 / 76.5 kts
17000 / 78 kts
18000 / 80 kts


Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rich

[M. B.]

<snip>

>>Whipping out my trusty AD-4/AD-4Q Pilot's Handbook . . .



>>Hope this helps.

>>Regards,

>>Rich


Great stuff. Just what I was looking for. Thanks!!
-MB

[W. D. Allen[_1_]]

Off the subject but interesting....

I recollect that Navy Spad drivers in the late 1950s had twenty four hour
SIOP missions. They trained in CONUS with ten hours missions. They carried a
shape and four drop tanks plus four types of pills to keep them awake and
alert during their mission-completion carrier landing.

What are the real facts regarding those long endurance Spad SIOP missions.
Would like to hear from old, bold Spad drivers with more precise facts.

Former Fearless Fury Flyer
Bill Allen

end

"M. B." > wrote in message
news:h5%Wg.3823$e65.625@trnddc05...
> Anybody know what the max trap of a Spad was? Don't know much about this
> bird but I walk past one every day. Seems like it would've been a good
> airplane.
>
> -MB
>
>

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[Greasy Rider @ invalid.com]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:05:09 -0700, "W. D. Allen"
> postulated :

>What are the real facts regarding those long endurance Spad SIOP missions.
>Would like to hear from old, bold Spad drivers with more precise facts.
>
>Former Fearless Fury Flyer

Bill, Check this out. http://www.abledogs.com/

Lots of Spad drivers hang there.

Former Fearless Fury Fixer (AT2) VF-33 NAS Oceana '55-57
(Not one Russian bomber got east of Washington, DC thanks to us)