Cirrus crash in NYC

[SAM 303a]

Look out! Fox was interviewing some Congresscritter saying, 'we've got to
put an end to unrestricted general aviation, think what could have happened
had this been a terrorist'.
Of couse this ignores the fact that there already are no corridors over NYC
where GA can fly w/out being in contact w/ATC.
This flurry of Minden/Brazil/NYC may put our aviation rights/privileges at
risk.

Background - A Cirrus crashed into a building in midtown, killing 2 in the
aircraft; one on the ground. Cause of the crash is unknown.

[chipsoars]

SAM 303a wrote:
> Look out! Fox was interviewing some Congresscritter saying, 'we've got to
> put an end to unrestricted general aviation, think what could have happened
> had this been a terrorist'.
> Of couse this ignores the fact that there already are no corridors over NYC
> where GA can fly w/out being in contact w/ATC.
> This flurry of Minden/Brazil/NYC may put our aviation rights/privileges at
> risk.
>
> Background - A Cirrus crashed into a building in midtown, killing 2 in the
> aircraft; one on the ground. Cause of the crash is unknown.

Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher Corey Lytle and that
his passport was found on the ground. Seems the plane circled the
Statue of Liberty and was 'flying erratically' before the crash.

Only what I heard on the long drive home in the rain..............

Chip F.

[Doug Haluza]

SAM 303a wrote:
> Look out! Fox was interviewing some Congresscritter saying, 'we've got to
> put an end to unrestricted general aviation, think what could have happened
> had this been a terrorist'.
> Of couse this ignores the fact that there already are no corridors over NYC
> where GA can fly w/out being in contact w/ATC.

Not true. There are VFR corridors up both the Hudson and the East
Rivers in New York CIty. The Cirrus was in the East River VFR corridor,
near the dead end prior to LaGuardia airspace, where they would have to
turn around. There was another aircraft nearby, and there is
speculation that they may have lost control in an evasive maneuver.

The pilot and aircraft owner is reported to be NY Yankee Pitcher Cory
Lidle, and he is also reported to have been with an instructor.

[Brad]

> Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher Corey Lytle and that
> his passport was found on the ground.

Interesting, wonder why he had his passport with him?
Didn't one of the 9-11 hijackers have his passport found in the
wreckage too?

Brad

[Stewart Kissel]

At 00:36 12 October 2006, Brad wrote:
>
>> Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher
>>Corey Lytle and that
>> his passport was found on the ground.
>
>Interesting, wonder why he had his passport with him?


If they in fact departed from an airport like Teterboro...going
through the gate security probably does not require
a passport...but rather then showing a million pieces
of ID, including our lame FAA ticket with no photo....I
think carrying a passport would be SOP to get through
the gate. In the near future visits to Mexico and
Canada will require them. I don't carry mine currently
in the glider, but probably will start.

And the ever vigilent airport manager at Salida, CO
changes the gate combination every month just to keep
those terrorist hiding out in the SangreDeChristos
from sneaking in :)

[Brad]

Gotta admit I usually keep my passport in the car, since I travel to
Delta BC on business frequently. And it seems to speed things along at
the border. Plus when flying commercial they seem to like 'em

But it seems weird that this was mentioned.

Brad

who's home airport now has a keypad too...................:(


Stewart Kissel wrote:
> At 00:36 12 October 2006, Brad wrote:
> >
> >> Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher
> >>Corey Lytle and that
> >> his passport was found on the ground.
> >
> >Interesting, wonder why he had his passport with him?
>
>
> If they in fact departed from an airport like Teterboro...going
> through the gate security probably does not require
> a passport...but rather then showing a million pieces
> of ID, including our lame FAA ticket with no photo....I
> think carrying a passport would be SOP to get through
> the gate. In the near future visits to Mexico and
> Canada will require them. I don't carry mine currently
> in the glider, but probably will start.
>
> And the ever vigilent airport manager at Salida, CO
> changes the gate combination every month just to keep
> those terrorist hiding out in the SangreDeChristos
> from sneaking in :)

[[email protected]]

Doug Haluza wrote:
> SAM 303a wrote:
> > Look out! Fox was interviewing some Congresscritter saying, 'we've got to
> > put an end to unrestricted general aviation, think what could have happened
> > had this been a terrorist'.
> > Of couse this ignores the fact that there already are no corridors over NYC
> > where GA can fly w/out being in contact w/ATC.
>
> Not true. There are VFR corridors up both the Hudson and the East
> Rivers in New York CIty. The Cirrus was in the East River VFR corridor,
> near the dead end prior to LaGuardia airspace, where
they would have to
> turn around.

if you initiate the left U-turn over Roosevelt Island , and won't be
very agressive from the very beginning...you will end up at east 72nd
Street. And you bet, the last seconds you will fly very erratically.
It's a narrow place.

[Mal]

From the news footage it looks like it was raining and overcast.

The SR 20 has as standard a parachute like all the cirrus range !

[Rory O'Conor]

Can someone explain these VFR corridors around Manhattan?
=20
In the UK, when flying VFR we should always fly so that we can always
land clear of densely populated areas.
=20
I cannot see how a VFR corridor up a river surrounded by skyscrapers is
compatible with that concept.
=20
Does the FAA guidance require pilots to be able to land clear of
built-up areas?
=20
Rory

[Charles Yeates]

Land in the river ---

Rory O'Conor wrote:
> Can someone explain these VFR corridors around Manhattan?
> =20
> In the UK, when flying VFR we should always fly so that we can always
> land clear of densely populated areas.
> =20
> I cannot see how a VFR corridor up a river surrounded by skyscrapers is
> compatible with that concept.
> =20
> Does the FAA guidance require pilots to be able to land clear of
> built-up areas?
> =20
> Rory
>
>
>
>

[JS]

> Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher Corey Lytle

Aha!
His instructor was probably a supporter of another team. You know how
crazed fans get about ball games. Just go to a "sports bar" on a game
night.
Jim

[Shawn[_2_]]

JS wrote:
>
>>Reports say the plane belonge to NY Yankee pitcher Corey Lytle
>
>
> Aha!
> His instructor was probably a supporter of another team. You know how
> crazed fans get about ball games. Just go to a "sports bar" on a game
> night.
> Jim
>
Yankees are already out of the race.

Shawn

[Papa3]

Mal wrote:
> From the news footage it looks like it was raining and overcast.
>

To put it mildly! My office is across the Hudson river on the Jersey
side, only about 2-3 miles as the crow flies from the accident site.
Cloudbase was certainly less than 2,000 and frequently "indefinite". I
watched the helicopter traffic ducking under the clouds and thought how
nice it must be to be able to stop and come straight down. I guess a
brick wall can have the same effect.

Definitely not the day I would've chosen for the standard VFR corridor
run.

P3

[SAM 303a]

OVER NYC is what I wrote. Check your sectional. Can you fly OVER NYC w/out
being in contact w/ATC?
Just realized--NYC is larger than Manhattan, but I only think of Manhattan
as NYC. My bad.

"Doug Haluza" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> SAM 303a wrote:
>> Look out! Fox was interviewing some Congresscritter saying, 'we've got
>> to
>> put an end to unrestricted general aviation, think what could have
>> happened
>> had this been a terrorist'.
>> Of couse this ignores the fact that there already are no corridors over
>> NYC
>> where GA can fly w/out being in contact w/ATC.
>
> Not true. There are VFR corridors up both the Hudson and the East
> Rivers in New York CIty. The Cirrus was in the East River VFR corridor,
> near the dead end prior to LaGuardia airspace, where they would have to
> turn around. There was another aircraft nearby, and there is
> speculation that they may have lost control in an evasive maneuver.
>
> The pilot and aircraft owner is reported to be NY Yankee Pitcher Cory
> Lidle, and he is also reported to have been with an instructor.
>

[Papa3]

Charles Yeates wrote:
> Land in the river ---
>

Which happens on average about once every 3 or 4 years...

[Mike the Strike]

It was like flying up a box canyon 2000 feet wide, with a u-turn at the
end. Unfortunately, a 40 degree bank at 112 mph results in a turn with
a diameter of about 2,000 feet, which leaves little room for error in
executing a u-turn.

It would have been prudent to make the turn at a slower speed, since
turn radius is proportional to the square of speed at a given bank
angle. 20 mph slower and the turn could have been made at
approximately standard rate with a bank angle of around 30 degrees.


Mike

[[email protected]]

Mike the Strike wrote:
> It was like flying up a box canyon 2000 feet wide, with a u-turn at the
> end. Unfortunately, a 40 degree bank at 112 mph results in a turn with
> a diameter of about 2,000 feet, which leaves little room for error in
> executing a u-turn.
>
> It would have been prudent to make the turn at a slower speed, since
> turn radius is proportional to the square of speed at a given bank
> angle. 20 mph slower and the turn could have been made at
> approximately standard rate with a bank angle of around 30 degrees.
>
>
> Mike

Here is a good graphic of their flight path:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2006/10/11/nyregion/20061011_CRASH_GRAPHIC.html

Tom

[Derek Copeland]

I am very surprised that a flight of this nature is
even allowed in the US, especially by a private pilot
in a single-engined aircraft. It wouldn't be in the
UK. Wasn't somebody in the building or on the ground
also killed?

Derek Copeland

At 04:00 16 October 2006, wrote:
>
>Mike the Strike wrote:
>> It was like flying up a box canyon 2000 feet wide,
>>with a u-turn at the
>> end. Unfortunately, a 40 degree bank at 112 mph results
>>in a turn with
>> a diameter of about 2,000 feet, which leaves little
>>room for error in
>> executing a u-turn.
>>
>> It would have been prudent to make the turn at a slower
>>speed, since
>> turn radius is proportional to the square of speed
>>at a given bank
>> angle. 20 mph slower and the turn could have been
>>made at
>> approximately standard rate with a bank angle of around
>>30 degrees.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
>Here is a good graphic of their flight path:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2006/10/11/nyregion/20061011
>>_CRASH_GRAPHIC.html
>
>Tom
>
>

[Mike the Strike]

Only the pilot and his instructor were killed. The apartments hit were
fortunately not occupied at the time, but several firefighters were
injured dealing with the blaze.

The VFR corridor up the river has now been closed and can only be flown
under the scrutiny of AIr Traffic Control. This is perhaps just as
well, given the tightness of this corridor.

Our concern in the USA is that this accident would be used to justify
even more clampdowns on general aviation under the post 9-11 hysteria.

Mike