Re: Ban privately-owned PLANES

[RadicalModerate]

In misc.survivalism > wrote:

> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
> banned.


Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
general aviation usage over big cities.
I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.

Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.


--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From: address IS Valid.

[[email protected]]

RadicalModerate wrote:
> In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>
> > He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
> > at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
> > Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
> > banned.
>
>
> Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
> general aviation usage over big cities.
> I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
> even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>
> Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
> which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
> plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.
>
>
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> From: address IS Valid.

[[email protected]]

RadicalModerate quoted me:
> > He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
> > at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
> > Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
> > banned.

and replied:
> Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
> general aviation usage over big cities.
> I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
> even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
> Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
> which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
> plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.

I doubt any such special licensing would be meaningful to SKYJACKERS
- who rarely are licensed pilots, anyhow, and killed more people in
Manhattan by "airplane violence" on 9/11 in an hour than all "mass
shootings" combined in American history. That's the point of the
Maloney issue.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com

[Bill Smith]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:33:34 +0000 (UTC),
(RadicalModerate) wrote:

>In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>
>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
>> banned.
>
>
>Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
>general aviation usage over big cities.
>I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
>even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>
>Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
>which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
>plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.

He had an instructor pilot with him and we don't yet know the actual
cause of the crash. Maloney seeks to create a bandwagon and be the
first to jump on it. Yet another politician wanting to be seen "doing
something".

Bill Smith

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas
habebunt

[B1ackwater]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:33:34 +0000 (UTC),
(RadicalModerate) wrote:

>In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>
>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
>> banned.
>
>
>Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
>general aviation usage over big cities.
>I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
>even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>
>Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
>which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
>plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.

Not a terrible idea ...

A plane - even a small one - can do proportionally
more damage if it crashes into a dense urban area.
Requiring some special training - what do do if the
engine quits plus stuff about the weird air currents
around tall buildings - also makes sense. Requiring
at least 1000 hours of experience before getting
said "Class B" certificate would weed out the
seriously inexperienced too.

Forbidding anyone related to the Kennedy family would
also prevent crashes ...

In any event, pilots ought not be banned from urban
areas - but they need to prove they're ABLE to handle
the special circumstances of such flights.

As for el-Jocko crashing ... pro atheletes are a highly
intelligent, well-cultured, self-controlled lot who NEVER
succumb to bravado or misjudgement - right ? :-)

[Blanche Cohen]

B1ackwater > wrote:
>(RadicalModerate) wrote:
>
>>In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
>>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
>>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
>>> banned.
>>
>>Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
>>general aviation usage over big cities.
>>I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
>>even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>>
>>Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
>>which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
>>plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.
>
> Not a terrible idea ...
>
> A plane - even a small one - can do proportionally
> more damage if it crashes into a dense urban area.
> Requiring some special training - what do do if the
> engine quits plus stuff about the weird air currents
> around tall buildings - also makes sense. Requiring
> at least 1000 hours of experience before getting
> said "Class B" certificate would weed out the
> seriously inexperienced too.

There are 27 Class B areas, not all of them anywhere close to
major city or dense population areas. There are lots of Class C,D,E
areas that are nestled right in the middle of dense population
areas.

Next question -- define "amateur pilot".

[davidlaska]

Blanche Cohen wrote:
> B1ackwater > wrote:
> >(RadicalModerate) wrote:
> >
> >>In misc.survivalism > wrote:
> >>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
> >>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
> >>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
> >>> banned.
> >>
> >>Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
> >>general aviation usage over big cities.
> >>I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
> >>even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
> >>
> >>Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
> >>which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
> >>plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.
> >
> > Not a terrible idea ...
> >
> > A plane - even a small one - can do proportionally
> > more damage if it crashes into a dense urban area.
> > Requiring some special training - what do do if the
> > engine quits plus stuff about the weird air currents
> > around tall buildings - also makes sense. Requiring
> > at least 1000 hours of experience before getting
> > said "Class B" certificate would weed out the
> > seriously inexperienced too.
>
> There are 27 Class B areas, not all of them anywhere close to
> major city or dense population areas. There are lots of Class C,D,E
> areas that are nestled right in the middle of dense population
> areas.
>
> Next question -- define "amateur pilot".

For legal purposes I think a vfr rating would work to separate planes,
but in reality, some vfr rated pilots are very experienced. We all
know some IFR pilots are amateurs.

[NrDg]

"davidlaska" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> For legal purposes I think a vfr rating would work to separate planes,
> but in reality, some vfr rated pilots are very experienced. We all
> know some IFR pilots are amateurs.

For legal purposes not flying part 135 air taxi or 121 airline is amateur
flying even if the pilot has a commercial or ATP rating.

[Marty Shapiro]

"NrDg" > wrote in
m:

>
> "davidlaska" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> For legal purposes I think a vfr rating would work to separate
>> planes, but in reality, some vfr rated pilots are very experienced.
>> We all know some IFR pilots are amateurs.
>
> For legal purposes not flying part 135 air taxi or 121 airline is
> amateur flying even if the pilot has a commercial or ATP rating.
>
>
>

Really. So you think the pilots who fly for the U.S. Air Force or
U.S. Navy flight demonstration teams (The Thunderbirds, The Blue Angels)
are amateurs?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[B1ackwater]

On 12 Oct 2006 16:07:00 GMT, (Blanche Cohen)
wrote:

>B1ackwater > wrote:
>>(RadicalModerate) wrote:
>>
>>>In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>>>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
>>>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
>>>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
>>>> banned.
>>>
>>>Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
>>>general aviation usage over big cities.
>>>I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
>>>even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>>>
>>>Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
>>>which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
>>>plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.
>>
>> Not a terrible idea ...
>>
>> A plane - even a small one - can do proportionally
>> more damage if it crashes into a dense urban area.
>> Requiring some special training - what do do if the
>> engine quits plus stuff about the weird air currents
>> around tall buildings - also makes sense. Requiring
>> at least 1000 hours of experience before getting
>> said "Class B" certificate would weed out the
>> seriously inexperienced too.
>
>There are 27 Class B areas, not all of them anywhere close to
>major city or dense population areas. There are lots of Class C,D,E
>areas that are nestled right in the middle of dense population
>areas.
>
>Next question -- define "amateur pilot".

I think the original poster meant "private pilot" ...
non-commercial / non-governmental. In short he wants
to deny everybody but 'official' people access rights
to 'urban areas'. If he means the FAAs def of a
'congested area' then that blocks off everything but
the cow country.

In short, he's one of those people willing to trade
a LOT of freedom (someone elses freedoms probably
instead of his own) for the illusion of "security".
Franklin had something to say about that ...

As for "class B" ... it was a made-up class - 'B' for
"Big City".

I can see requiring some extra training, maybe some
minor security check, before letting Joe Pilot fly
his Piper through the middle of NYC. While emergency
landings are part of the standard program, what do
you do when everything beneath you is concrete filled
with people ? What about the funky air currents that
tall buildings cause ? What about the thermals from
all that concrete and asphalt ? Flying over a big
city is SPECIAL - and requires a little special
training.

As for the 'security' aspect ... not much, just prove
they are who they say they are and aren't on anyones
lists. US citizens get the easy track, foreigners get
a slightly deeper probing. Of course bona-fide terrorists
aren't gonna wait for PERMISSION to fly into a city ...

[[email protected]]

B1ackwater wrote:
> I can see requiring some extra training, maybe some
> minor security check, before letting Joe Pilot fly
> his Piper through the middle of NYC.

You mean SPECIAL protection for the rich of Upper Manhattan - while
the rest of us get the fallout (literally) of planes flown by private
pilots who barely can fly? Because that's what you imply! Let any
rich idiot who can afford much more plane than he can handle safely fly
it over the nobodies - as that Kennedy heir did - as long as he doesn't
drop his mishandled boy toy onto those rich people in Manhattan.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com

[Christopher C. Stacy]

(RadicalModerate) writes:

> In misc.survivalism > wrote:
>
>> He hit an apartment building for the rich - where apartments start
>> at over $1 million. Maybe because of that, longtime antigun nut Rep.
>> Carolyn Maloney demanded that flights over densely-populated areas be
>> banned.
>
>
> Maloney being a Gun Grabber doesn't invalidate the debate about
> general aviation usage over big cities.
> I think it would be common sense to disallow inexperienced pilots or
> even amateur pilots to overfly major cities.
>
> Perhaps a special license endorsement for "Class B" (big city) airspace
> which would require an instrument rating and minimum cume time-in-type
> plus minimum time-per-month ( to assure proficiency ) is in order.

How about CFI? That's (at least) what the pilot in the NYC crash had.

[Beavis[_1_]]

In article >,
"NrDg" > wrote:

> For legal purposes not flying part 135 air taxi or 121 airline is amateur
> flying even if the pilot has a commercial or ATP rating.

That's the single most ridiculous thing I've read this week.

You're telling me that a pilot for, say, Netjets, who flies various
business jets under Part 91 all over the world, is engaging in "amateur
flying" when he goes to work? That's news to the nearly 3,000 pilots
who work there.



I looked up "amateur" in the dictionary, and folks who make their living
as non-121/135 pilots don't fit any definition of "amateur" I've ever
heard of. Here's the definition, in case you're unfamiliar:


amateur

n.

[Ron Natalie]

Beavis wrote:
> In article >,

> 3. One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.
>
>
>
I try to be professional about my flying. I just don't do it
as a career.

[B1ackwater]

On 12 Oct 2006 15:29:28 -0700, "
> wrote:

>B1ackwater wrote:
>> I can see requiring some extra training, maybe some
>> minor security check, before letting Joe Pilot fly
>> his Piper through the middle of NYC.
>
> You mean SPECIAL protection for the rich of Upper Manhattan - while
>the rest of us get the fallout (literally) of planes flown by private
>pilots who barely can fly?

Actually, I meant the entire NY (Boston/Jersey/Baltimore/DC/
Atlanta/Jacksonville/Orlando/Miami/Tampa/New Orleans/Chigago/
Houston/ Denver/Phoenix/LA/SanFran/Seattle/etc) urban areas ...
not JUST the parts that belong to 'rich people'. If there's
pretty much no place to land that won't put you through
SOMEBODYS roof then I'd advocate special training and
licencing. Doesn't have to be super-severe ... but it needs
to be addressed.

So take your class war crap and shove it where crap belongs.

[Bob Noel]

In article >, (B1ackwater)
wrote:

> >B1ackwater wrote:
> >> I can see requiring some extra training, maybe some
> >> minor security check, before letting Joe Pilot fly
> >> his Piper through the middle of NYC.
> >
> > You mean SPECIAL protection for the rich of Upper Manhattan - while
> >the rest of us get the fallout (literally) of planes flown by private
> >pilots who barely can fly?
>
> Actually, I meant the entire NY (Boston/Jersey/Baltimore/DC/
> Atlanta/Jacksonville/Orlando/Miami/Tampa/New Orleans/Chigago/
> Houston/ Denver/Phoenix/LA/SanFran/Seattle/etc) urban areas ...
> not JUST the parts that belong to 'rich people'. If there's
> pretty much no place to land that won't put you through
> SOMEBODYS roof then I'd advocate special training and
> licencing. Doesn't have to be super-severe ... but it needs
> to be addressed.

Training like for part 135? Like the part 135 guy who planted a twin in
Dorchester?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Blanche Cohen]

Class B DEN -- is out in the middle of nowhere, nothing urban anywhere
around, 20 miles from downtown Denver. Almost entirely agriculture in
the 10miles around it, what's better known as "Area of Influence".

As for "special training", I always thought that's what I learned in
my ASEL training.

And as for flying a piper thru downtown NYC, have you bothered to take
a look at the flight paths to JFK from the west? Directly over
the center of Manhattan. In fact, if you examine the flight paths
of most aircraft coming/going to Class B airports (again, DEN is
an exception due to its location) you'll find almost every aircraft
is routed directly over high-density population areas. LAX, from the
west, doesn't have quite as severe a problem (ocean, you know).