Moeller Sky Car for sale!

[Ken Finney]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M400X-Skycar-VTOL-Prototype-Aircraft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26428QQihZ015Q QitemZ250036057352QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I suppose it had to happen!

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

ROFLMAO!
I like the question from the guy that wants to tow his boat with it. Hope
he's got a fireproof gelcoat.
Jim

"Ken Finney" > wrote in message
...
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M400X-Skycar-VTOL-Prototype-Aircraft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26428QQihZ015Q QitemZ250036057352QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
>
> I suppose it had to happen!
>
>
>

[DonMorrisey]

Something tells me this is a scam. Check out the bidders, click on
their feedback rating and then check out the type of items they've
purchased...absolutely nothing to do with aviation and/or cars for that
matter. Also something tells me that bigkahuna and stupidkid aren't
million dollar bidders. No offense intended. Part of this bidding
process seems to be turning over some of your personal info on a screen
that looks very official from ebay...but beware the scammers are very
smart and are very good at what they do. Don...

[Anthony W]

DonMorrisey wrote:
> Something tells me this is a scam. Check out the bidders, click on
> their feedback rating and then check out the type of items they've
> purchased...absolutely nothing to do with aviation and/or cars for that
> matter. Also something tells me that bigkahuna and stupidkid aren't
> million dollar bidders. No offense intended. Part of this bidding
> process seems to be turning over some of your personal info on a screen
> that looks very official from ebay...but beware the scammers are very
> smart and are very good at what they do. Don...

It is and it is not a scam. The auction is a real eBay listing but I
doubt the item is worth what it will bring even if the buyer gets what
is listed. The Skycar is a scam anyway you look at it.

Go to the eBay website and search for "M400X" and it'll come right up...

Tony

[DonMorrisey]

Tony, that is how ebay scammers work, the auction pages are actually on
ebay. There is no doubt the item is listed on ebay...it's the
infornation such as ebay id and corresponding passwords that these rip
off artists are after. Watch out!!

Don..


> It is and it is not a scam. The auction is a real eBay listing but I
> doubt the item is worth what it will bring even if the buyer gets what
> is listed. The Skycar is a scam anyway you look at it.
>
> Go to the eBay website and search for "M400X" and it'll come right up...
>
> Tony

[abripl[_1_]]

Wright brothers may have been regarded as scamers by some. Moller has
been at this for years and seems genuine in his efforts. I personally
don't think he will succeed, but I still don't like to put people down
for pursuing a dream. We all like to identify with success and not with
failure. A lot of historical successes could not be predicted. Lets not
be so eager to put efforts down - puting down is allways easy, pursuing
a dream is not. Some dreams succeed, many don't, but that is the price
of progress.

Anthony W wrote:
> DonMorrisey wrote:
> .... The Skycar is a scam anyway you look at it....
>

[Kyle Boatright]

"abripl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Wright brothers may have been regarded as scamers by some. Moller has
> been at this for years and seems genuine in his efforts. I personally
> don't think he will succeed, but I still don't like to put people down
> for pursuing a dream. We all like to identify with success and not with
> failure. A lot of historical successes could not be predicted. Lets not
> be so eager to put efforts down - puting down is allways easy, pursuing
> a dream is not. Some dreams succeed, many don't, but that is the price
> of progress.

A few obvious differences between the Wrights and Moller:

1) The Wrights operated in secrecy. Moeller has been out in the press with
his vaporware for at least 3 decades.

2) The Wrights never solicited investors, at least until well after they had
a flying aircraft.

3) The Wrights didn't try and sell their product until they had proven that
it worked.

Moller seems to make a good living by wasting other people's money.

KB

[Anthony W]

You are overly paranoid. If you go to eBay and log in there rather than
following some link, there is no possibility of having your password and
account info stolen. As a former IT pro and network admin, I am way
more security minded that most people. My passwords are never less than
12 characters and I change them frequently. Also my passwords do not
involve things that could be guessed by knowing me really well. The
only links I follow to places that require a login are in my Firefox
bookmarks.

Weather or not the item is actually there is to be determined later.

Tony

DonMorrisey wrote:
> Tony, that is how ebay scammers work, the auction pages are actually on
> ebay. There is no doubt the item is listed on ebay...it's the
> infornation such as ebay id and corresponding passwords that these rip
> off artists are after. Watch out!!
>
> Don..
>
>
>> It is and it is not a scam. The auction is a real eBay listing but I
>> doubt the item is worth what it will bring even if the buyer gets what
>> is listed. The Skycar is a scam anyway you look at it.
>>
>> Go to the eBay website and search for "M400X" and it'll come right up...
>>
>> Tony
>

[Robert Bates]

Maybe Moeller is working on a sky trailer to go with it.

LOL




"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> ROFLMAO!
> I like the question from the guy that wants to tow his boat with it. Hope
> he's got a fireproof gelcoat.
> Jim
>
> "Ken Finney" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M400X-Skycar-VTOL-Prototype-Aircraft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26428QQihZ015Q QitemZ250036057352QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
> >
> > I suppose it had to happen!
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Tim Ward[_1_]]

"DonMorrisey" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Something tells me this is a scam. Check out the bidders, click on
> their feedback rating and then check out the type of items they've
> purchased...absolutely nothing to do with aviation <snip>

And this surprises you for what reason?

Tim Ward

[Rob Turk[_1_]]

"Robert Bates" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe Moeller is working on a sky trailer to go with it.
>
> LOL

Whowww there buddy! You nor Moller can do that, I just took out a patent on
flying towable contraptions. This includes "sky trailers", which happen to
be our latest invention. Feel free to contact me off-list to take delivery
of our first production unit next year, at a considerable discount. You're
also welcome to participate as an investor, a cool million would be great!

;-)

Rob

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Rob Turk" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Robert Bates" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Maybe Moeller is working on a sky trailer to go with it.
>>
>> LOL
>
> Whowww there buddy! You nor Moller can do that, I just took out a patent on
> flying towable contraptions. This includes "sky trailers", which happen to be
> our latest invention. Feel free to contact me off-list to take delivery of our
> first production unit next year, at a considerable discount. You're also
> welcome to participate as an investor, a cool million would be great!

Sorry, but they already exist.

They are called "gliders!" <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Ernest Christley]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> "abripl" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Wright brothers may have been regarded as scamers by some. Moller has
>> been at this for years and seems genuine in his efforts. I personally
>> don't think he will succeed, but I still don't like to put people down
>> for pursuing a dream. We all like to identify with success and not with
>> failure. A lot of historical successes could not be predicted. Lets not
>> be so eager to put efforts down - puting down is allways easy, pursuing
>> a dream is not. Some dreams succeed, many don't, but that is the price
>> of progress.
>
> A few obvious differences between the Wrights and Moller:
>
> 1) The Wrights operated in secrecy. Moeller has been out in the press with
> his vaporware for at least 3 decades.
>
> 2) The Wrights never solicited investors, at least until well after they had
> a flying aircraft.
>
> 3) The Wrights didn't try and sell their product until they had proven that
> it worked.
>
> Moller seems to make a good living by wasting other people's money.
>
> KB
>
>
>

Good list. I would add:

4) The Wrights studied current literature and followed the Laws of
Physics. Moller has a concept that is inherently dangerous from the
outset, due to a failure mode that involves the contraption turning into
a flying refigerator in the case of one of multiple engines failing. No
glide. No autorotation. Just falling.

[Ron Natalie]

abripl wrote:
> Wright brothers may have been regarded as scamers by some. Moller has
> been at this for years and seems genuine in his efforts.

He's been genuine in fleecing investors (caveat emptor) and the
government (this disturbs me) out of money to screw around with this.
There's not a shred of practicality. Essentially, it's long on
glitz and short on engineering.

[Dan[_2_]]

Ken Finney wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M400X-Skycar-VTOL-Prototype-Aircraft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26428QQihZ015Q QitemZ250036057352QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
>
> I suppose it had to happen!
>
>
>
The race is on; which will fly first, Skycar or yawn's BD-5J?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Anthony W > said:
>You are overly paranoid. If you go to eBay and log in there rather than
>following some link, there is no possibility of having your password and
>account info stolen. As a former IT pro and network admin, I am way

Unless you stupidly follow links in the seller-supplied section of the
listing, or suggestions to email the seller.

At one time I was looking for a Garmin 296, and just for the hell of it I
looked for listings of Garmin 530s. 7 out of 10 of them were scammers -
they would tell you that they had 5 of them for sale, and to email them to
get their "special buy it now price". The point there would be to get you
to buy the item off eBay, and so not have any of the (feeble) protections
that eBay offers. You can bet that after you paid they wouldn't deliver.

And one of the ones who didn't want you to email them had a link in his
seller-supplied section that said "click here to see my eBay store", which
took you to a site that wasn't ebay, but which used all the eBay graphics
to look like it was legit, and told you to log in with your eBay account
to see the store. You can bet that anybody stupid enough to do that would
soon find their eBay account being used to sell "5 Garmin 530s".

For about a month there, while I was looking for my Garmin 296, I was
reporting about 3 eBay scammers a day to eBay. The sales would be taken
down, and then re-appear the next day under a new account. One
interesting thing - unlike the real Garmin 530s, which were listed in the
Avionics category, the scammers would list under utterly bizarre
categories, like "Women's shoes".


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Consistently separating words by spaces became a general custom about
the tenth century A.D., and lasted until about 1957, when FORTRAN
abandoned the practice. -- Sun FORTRAN Reference Manual

[Anthony W]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Unless you stupidly follow links in the seller-supplied section of the
> listing, or suggestions to email the seller.
>
> At one time I was looking for a Garmin 296, and just for the hell of it I
> looked for listings of Garmin 530s. 7 out of 10 of them were scammers -
> they would tell you that they had 5 of them for sale, and to email them to
> get their "special buy it now price". The point there would be to get you
> to buy the item off eBay, and so not have any of the (feeble) protections
> that eBay offers. You can bet that after you paid they wouldn't deliver.
>
> And one of the ones who didn't want you to email them had a link in his
> seller-supplied section that said "click here to see my eBay store", which
> took you to a site that wasn't ebay, but which used all the eBay graphics
> to look like it was legit, and told you to log in with your eBay account
> to see the store. You can bet that anybody stupid enough to do that would
> soon find their eBay account being used to sell "5 Garmin 530s".
>
> For about a month there, while I was looking for my Garmin 296, I was
> reporting about 3 eBay scammers a day to eBay. The sales would be taken
> down, and then re-appear the next day under a new account. One
> interesting thing - unlike the real Garmin 530s, which were listed in the
> Avionics category, the scammers would list under utterly bizarre
> categories, like "Women's shoes".

Making and off eBay purchase from a eBay seller isn't going to get your
account hacked.

All of what you're saying is covered under eBay's security
recommendations that few people read. Needless to say you have to be
pretty stupid or ignorant to fall for these scams. Also buying an
expensive item like the Garmin GPS or a laptop computer from a 0
feedback seller is just plain stupid and I have a hard time feeling
sorry for people that have fallen for this.

A good portion of my income comes from selling my products on eBay and
I've never had a scam eMail come close to fooling me or anyone hack my
account.

Tony

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Anthony W wrote:
> Making and off eBay purchase from a eBay seller isn't going to get your
> account hacked...

Well, yes it can. In the scheme described previously, a mock-eBay Store
web page asks you to "log in to your eBay account," with text boxes for
your user name and password. When you enter the info and click OK, your
account info goes not to eBay, but to the guy who set up the bogus eBay
page. Then that guy can open and abuse your eBay account.

Bob K.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Anthony W > said:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> Unless you stupidly follow links in the seller-supplied section of the
>> listing, or suggestions to email the seller.
>Making and off eBay purchase from a eBay seller isn't going to get your
>account hacked.

No, that's what you get if you follow links in the seller-supplied section
of the listing.

>pretty stupid or ignorant to fall for these scams. Also buying an
>expensive item like the Garmin GPS or a laptop computer from a 0
>feedback seller is just plain stupid and I have a hard time feeling

The whole reason they want the userids and passwords for people's ebay
accounts is so that can sell their vapourware using an account that has
good positive feedback. Like I said, these fake sales kept popping up
under different ids, and would always have a different email address to
contact them, and say something like "Don't use the 'contact the seller'
button because I never use that email account any more".


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows
is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus.
-- Peter H. Coffin

[wright1902glider]

Ever see a Wright machine up close? Or even in photos? Until 1905,
everything the Wrights built is better classified as "test equipment"
or "prototype flying machine" than airplane. Not pretty, not refined,
just enough to work out the technical details. And when they did go to
sell their machines in 1906, they had already flown for over 40
minutes. Santos was still measuring his flights in seconds.

Ever see the prototype Skycar? Man! Its pretty! And sexy! And it looks
really good on TV... lots of shiny red carbon-fiber, etc. Can't fly
worth a damn though. If it really works and isn't a scam, why doesn't
Moller just get in it, hover out of ground effect for a minute or so,
and then transition into level flight? Why? Um, because he can't. $100
million+, and he still can't do what both Bell and Ryan did in the
'50's with old helicopter and used tractor parts.

Harry

[Jim Stewart]

wright1902glider wrote:

> Ever see a Wright machine up close? Or even in photos? Until 1905,
> everything the Wrights built is better classified as "test equipment"
> or "prototype flying machine" than airplane. Not pretty, not refined,
> just enough to work out the technical details. And when they did go to
> sell their machines in 1906, they had already flown for over 40
> minutes. Santos was still measuring his flights in seconds.
>
> Ever see the prototype Skycar? Man! Its pretty! And sexy! And it looks
> really good on TV... lots of shiny red carbon-fiber, etc. Can't fly
> worth a damn though. If it really works and isn't a scam, why doesn't
> Moller just get in it, hover out of ground effect for a minute or so,
> and then transition into level flight? Why? Um, because he can't. $100
> million+, and he still can't do what both Bell and Ryan did in the
> '50's with old helicopter and used tractor parts.

The whole Moller/Skycar thing would make a great
sociology study I think.

I haven't decided whether the investers are a)
greedy, b) stupid, or c)incurable optimists.

I kinda hope the answer is c.

[Anthony W]

Jim Stewart wrote:

> The whole Moller/Skycar thing would make a great
> sociology study I think.
>
> I haven't decided whether the investers are a)
> greedy, b) stupid, or c)incurable optimists.
>
> I kinda hope the answer is c.

I think it's about 50/50 of both b and c.

Tony