PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System

[[email protected]]

PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?

>From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
your current airspace.
If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
you have a transponder, is a very false security.
I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.

When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
passengers.

At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
they see me.
It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
aicraft).

Any PCAS users out there?

Randy

[Robert Backer]

I have recently purchased that device but have only had a chance to fly
with it twice. All I can say is that is works as advertised.

Bob

wrote:
> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
> Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?
>
>>From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
> at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
> your current airspace.
> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>
> When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
> of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
> I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
> approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
> could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
> of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
> doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
> passengers.
>
> At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
> below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
> 19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
> they see me.
> It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
> a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
> commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
> aicraft).
>
> Any PCAS users out there?
>
> Randy
>

[jcarlyle]

I fly with a PCAS, Randy. I bought it because my glider club lies
inside the Mode C veil of PHL, because an active military air base is 5
miles away, and because there are several airways that lie within
several miles of us.

It has gone off several times during each of the 5 flights that I've
had it in my glider. As I get height and distance readings, it is
usually pretty easy to spot the traffic. Once I had difficulty finding
the threat, and it turned out to be a commuter running through the
clouds above me. I wasn't too worried, because the MRX indicated that
he was level and 600 feet higher than me, but if he had been descending
I would have been sweating big time!

Incidentally, I did a review of the various PCAS units available; you
can read the discussion here: http://tinyurl.com/pcmkw

-John

wrote:
> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
> Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?
>
> >From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
> at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
> your current airspace.
> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>
> When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
> of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
> I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
> approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
> could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
> of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
> doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
> passengers.
>
> At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
> below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
> 19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
> they see me.
> It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
> a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
> commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
> aicraft).
>
> Any PCAS users out there?
>
> Randy

[Ramy]

wrote:
> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
> > If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>

But doesn't TCAS gives you resolution without the need to spot the
threat?
I was under the impression that it does.

Ramy

[Marc Ramsey]

Ramy wrote:
> wrote:
>> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
>> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
>>> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
>> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
>> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
>> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>>
>
> But doesn't TCAS gives you resolution without the need to spot the
> threat?
> I was under the impression that it does.

Only if the threat is also equipped with TCAS...

Marc

[Mike Schumann]

That is NOT correct. TCAS was specifically designed to provide evasive
maneuver info for airliners that are on a collision course with GA aircraft.
However, the GA aircraft needs a Mode C Transponder (and it needs to be
turned on).

Mike Schumann

"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
...
> Ramy wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
>>> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
>>>> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
>>> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
>>> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
>>> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>>>
>>
>> But doesn't TCAS gives you resolution without the need to spot the
>> threat? I was under the impression that it does.
>
> Only if the threat is also equipped with TCAS...
>
> Marc

[Marc Ramsey]

Mike Schumann wrote:
> That is NOT correct. TCAS was specifically designed to provide evasive
> maneuver info for airliners that are on a collision course with GA aircraft.
> However, the GA aircraft needs a Mode C Transponder (and it needs to be
> turned on).

You are correct, I was confusing limitations of TCAS I with TCAS II...

Marc

[Ramy]

I know quiet a few which use the Zaon and are very pleased. I am using
the Monroy ATD200 and am pleased with it too. It is an older unit,
about the same size of the Zaon with the same functionality, including
voice alert, except it does not have altitude band. I am considering
upgrading to the Zaon since I am flying in an area with lots of traffic
thus preffer to have an altitude band to reduce alarms from non
threats, but for someone in less traffic area it is sufficient. so if
anyone is interested in an even cheaper PCAS just drop me a line.
http://www.monroyaero.com/atd200.html
http://www.flightstore.co.uk/monroy_atd200_air_traffic_detector.pilot.supplies/use.id.5.item_id.2296.dept.299.dept_l2.426.dept_l3 .0/

Ramy

wrote:
> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
> Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?
>
> >From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
> at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
> your current airspace.
> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>
> When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
> of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
> I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
> approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
> could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
> of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
> doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
> passengers.
>
> At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
> below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
> 19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
> they see me.
> It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
> a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
> commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
> aicraft).
>
> Any PCAS users out there?
>
> Randy

[bumper]

John,

I've read your review of the various PCAS (same as TPAS) devices. I use the
Proxalert R-5 and would add to your comments re this unit.

You are correct, it does not have internal batteries and so needs ship's
power. This has not been much of an issue for me - - install the wire and
plug once, don't have to change batteries.

It does hang down some 3/4" below the glare shield. This allows it to have a
good sized display, while not blocking forward view. In my ASH26E, it sits
on the glareshield and doesn't block the view of the upper portion of the
panel (this area is already blocked by the glare shield "brow", nor does it
block forward view at all.

The Proxalert is the only unit I'm aware of that displays threat aircraft
squawk code. This is important to me as the threat level from a 1200 squawk
aircraft, all other things being equal, is much higher than that from a
discreet squawking aircraft. The discreet squawking aircraft is talking to
ATC and probably has been told of my presence (I use a transponder).

If the host, PCAS glider, has no transponder, then I guess it doesn't much
matter what the threat aircraft is squawking - - not likely he is aware of
you in any case!

I have heard complaints from some R-5 owners that their unit did not alarm
reliably or was inconsistent. I've not had that problem with mine at all. It
finds traffic that I otherwise wouldn't see, some of which I never do see
(g). When I'm talking to ATC getting flight following, the R-5 display is
remarkably consistent with their advisories.
--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)>
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
Quiet Vent kit and MKII yaw string
"jcarlyle" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I fly with a PCAS, Randy. I bought it because my glider club lies
> inside the Mode C veil of PHL, because an active military air base is 5
> miles away, and because there are several airways that lie within
> several miles of us.
>
> It has gone off several times during each of the 5 flights that I've
> had it in my glider. As I get height and distance readings, it is
> usually pretty easy to spot the traffic. Once I had difficulty finding
> the threat, and it turned out to be a commuter running through the
> clouds above me. I wasn't too worried, because the MRX indicated that
> he was level and 600 feet higher than me, but if he had been descending
> I would have been sweating big time!
>
> Incidentally, I did a review of the various PCAS units available; you
> can read the discussion here: http://tinyurl.com/pcmkw
>
> -John
>
> wrote:
>> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
>> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
>> Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?
>>
>> >From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
>> at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
>> your current airspace.
>> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
>> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
>> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
>> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
>>
>> When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
>> of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
>> I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
>> approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
>> could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
>> of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
>> doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
>> passengers.
>>
>> At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
>> below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
>> 19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
>> they see me.
>> It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
>> a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
>> commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
>> aicraft).
>>
>> Any PCAS users out there?
>>
>> Randy
>

[jcarlyle]

Thanks for the input, Bumper. I got my information solely from the
manufacturer's web sites, so user reports are very welcome!

I've had the same experience that you've had, that my PCAS/TPAS unit
sometimes picks threats up I never see. However, these threats are
typically 3 miles or more distant, and several thousand feet above or
below me. The commuter running through the clouds above me was also
invisible, until he was practically overhead - but at least I knew we
had sufficient vertical separation!

One question - in your flight experience, does the way the R5 combines
threats having the same squawk code on the same line of the display,
showing only the closest threat's distance, and flip-flopping the
various threat altitudes, cause you any confusion?

-John

bumper wrote:
> John,
>
> I've read your review of the various PCAS (same as TPAS) devices. I use the
> Proxalert R-5 and would add to your comments re this unit.
>
> You are correct, it does not have internal batteries and so needs ship's
> power. This has not been much of an issue for me - - install the wire and
> plug once, don't have to change batteries.
>
> It does hang down some 3/4" below the glare shield. This allows it to have a
> good sized display, while not blocking forward view. In my ASH26E, it sits
> on the glareshield and doesn't block the view of the upper portion of the
> panel (this area is already blocked by the glare shield "brow", nor does it
> block forward view at all.
>
> The Proxalert is the only unit I'm aware of that displays threat aircraft
> squawk code. This is important to me as the threat level from a 1200 squawk
> aircraft, all other things being equal, is much higher than that from a
> discreet squawking aircraft. The discreet squawking aircraft is talking to
> ATC and probably has been told of my presence (I use a transponder).
>
> If the host, PCAS glider, has no transponder, then I guess it doesn't much
> matter what the threat aircraft is squawking - - not likely he is aware of
> you in any case!
>
> I have heard complaints from some R-5 owners that their unit did not alarm
> reliably or was inconsistent. I've not had that problem with mine at all. It
> finds traffic that I otherwise wouldn't see, some of which I never do see
> (g). When I'm talking to ATC getting flight following, the R-5 display is
> remarkably consistent with their advisories.
> --
> bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)>
> "Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
> Quiet Vent kit and MKII yaw string
> "jcarlyle" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I fly with a PCAS, Randy. I bought it because my glider club lies
> > inside the Mode C veil of PHL, because an active military air base is 5
> > miles away, and because there are several airways that lie within
> > several miles of us.
> >
> > It has gone off several times during each of the 5 flights that I've
> > had it in my glider. As I get height and distance readings, it is
> > usually pretty easy to spot the traffic. Once I had difficulty finding
> > the threat, and it turned out to be a commuter running through the
> > clouds above me. I wasn't too worried, because the MRX indicated that
> > he was level and 600 feet higher than me, but if he had been descending
> > I would have been sweating big time!
> >
> > Incidentally, I did a review of the various PCAS units available; you
> > can read the discussion here: http://tinyurl.com/pcmkw
> >
> > -John
> >
> > wrote:
> >> PCAS - Portable Collision Avoidance System
> >> http://www.zaonflight.com/mrx.html
> >> Is there anyone out there using this system in their glider?
> >>
> >> >From what I have read, it seems like a like a pretty nice system to
> >> at least make you aware of what fast moving traffic is approaching
> >> your current airspace.
> >> If you think that an airliner in going to spot you just because
> >> you have a transponder, is a very false security.
> >> I fly a Boeing jet for a living and at times it is very hard to see
> >> another jet that ATC and TCAS alerted us to.
> >>
> >> When I flew my glider in Moriarty last June, I was amazed at the number
> >> of large jets coming in from the east passing above and below me.
> >> I was talking and listening to ABQ approach control. ACT gave the
> >> approaching traffic my position and altitude and none of the airliners
> >> could look visually locate me. I saw all of them. I am sure that most
> >> of these pilots are running their descent and approach check lists,
> >> doing an approach briefing and saying a few last words to the
> >> passengers.
> >>
> >> At work when we get below 18,000 feet, I am always looking for gliders
> >> below the base of the clouds. I have never seen a glider in over
> >> 19 years of flying, but I know that they are there. I am hoping that
> >> they see me.
> >> It seems to me that a PCAS type of system would help me locate
> >> a majority of the biggest and fastest moving threats in the sky,
> >> commercial airliners, corporate jet and higher-end general aviation
> >> aicraft).
> >>
> >> Any PCAS users out there?
> >>
> >> Randy
> >

[[email protected]]

my glider club lies
> inside the Mode C veil of PHL, because an active military air base is 5
> miles away, and because there are several airways that lie within
> several miles of us.

> -John

Great perspective.
PCAS or no PCAS, the future for us glider pilots will be the same.
EXTINCTION.

rk

[bumper]

"jcarlyle" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> One question - in your flight experience, does the way the R5 combines
> threats having the same squawk code on the same line of the display,
> showing only the closest threat's distance, and flip-flopping the
> various threat altitudes, cause you any confusion?
>
> -John

No, that hasn't been an issue.

When I first got the R-5, I tried using the included headset adapter for
audio warnings in the Mooney. The sound level would not match the radio
output well, too loud as I recall. Thought about adding a resistor to drop
it some, but then decided that the bright red alarm LED, when right in front
of the pilot, is all that's needed to get my attention.

In the glider, the self contained beeper can be heard as well as the bright
LED. I believe the Proxalert was initially designed with gliders in mind.

bumper

[Andy[_1_]]

Marc Ramsey wrote:

> > But doesn't TCAS gives you resolution without the need to spot the
> > threat?
> > I was under the impression that it does.
>
> Only if the threat is also equipped with TCAS...
>
> Marc

A TCAS equipped aircraft with be given a resolution advisory for a
threat aircraft that has a mode C or Mode S transponder. The threat
aircraft does not need to have TCAS, and does not need to be
interrogated by an ATC radar site.

When both involved aircraft have TCAS the avoidance maneuver is agreed
between them. If only one has TCAS it decides what to do on it's own.

Andy

[Thomas Knauff]

After flying with the ZAON collision avoidance system,we became one of their
dealers. You can find it on our web site listed below.

It was very interesting to have the device give warnings for aircraft I did
not see.

It works exactly as advertised, & seems well worth the cost, especially when
flying near high density areas such as we fly.
It receives it's data from other nearby aircraft equipped with a
transponder. Our glider also has a transponder.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

www.eglider.org