ATC speed instructions, wind and altimeter indications

[Mxsmanic]

ATC never gives me speed instructions in simulation; how common are
they in real life? I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
know how fast or slow they can go?

Also, don't controllers give wind speed and direction when clearing
someone for take-off? I never get that in simulation, but I could
swear that I've heard it regularly in real ATC.

And another thing: Do controllers provide altimeter settings only in
specific circumstances, or what? Apparently after a handoff from one
center to another they give altimeter settings, but when otherwise?

I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
to recall discrepancies.

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[A Lieberma]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
> but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
> listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
> to recall discrepancies.

Well, gee, why bother with the simulation if you are not trusting it?????

It's not like you are getting any benefit from simulation since you wont'
get in a REAL PLANE.

Allen

[Mxsmanic]

B A R R Y writes:

> All answers to follow are USA based.

Good.

> On approach and departure in busy airspace, they can be common.
> Straight and level or quiet airspace, not so common. For fast
> aircraft, there are speed limits below 10,000 feet and near class B &
> C airports. I'm usually told to keep my speed up in the spam cans I
> fly. <G>

What is a spam can? A small aircraft?

> Usually on initial contact, when new weather information is issued, or
> as a subtle reminder when you're not maintaining the altitude you are
> expected to be at. <G> Before they yell at you for drifting, most
> controllers will remind you of the current local altimeter setting.
>
> You have so much interest in this, you have got to get up in the real
> thing...

Not possible or practical at this time, I'm afraid.

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[buttman]

A Lieberma wrote:
> Mxsmanic > wrote in
> :
>
> > I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
> > but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
> > listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
> > to recall discrepancies.
>
> Well, gee, why bother with the simulation if you are not trusting it?????
>
> It's not like you are getting any benefit from simulation since you wont'
> get in a REAL PLANE.
>
> Allen

now who's the one trolling

[Emily]

buttman wrote:
> A Lieberma wrote:
>> Mxsmanic > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
>>> but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
>>> listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
>>> to recall discrepancies.
>> Well, gee, why bother with the simulation if you are not trusting it?????
>>
>> It's not like you are getting any benefit from simulation since you wont'
>> get in a REAL PLANE.
>>
>> Allen
>
> now who's the one trolling
>
It's not trolling, it's frustration.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> ATC never gives me speed instructions in simulation; how common are
> they in real life? I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
> know how fast or slow they can go?

I fly a Mooney so speed restrictions are not uncommon when approaching
busy GA fields.
Strangely about a month ago I was coming into SMO VFR and about the
time I crossed the fence tower said "93V, you're too fast". I have no
idea what that was suppose to mean but I continued to land since he
didn't say otherwise. I asked my wife afterwards if I heard it
correctly and she said I did. Since there is only about 10 seconds
between crossing the fence and touch down there wasn't time to ask
questions. Anyway, that's my "that was very odd" ATC story. Maybe he
didn't think I could stop in time. I think I was doing 170 kts on
approach ground speed but was only doing about 100 over the fence. Not
too uncommon speeds for very busy airports.

-Robert, CFII

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
<...> I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
> but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
> listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
> to recall discrepancies.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

http://www.liveatc.net/


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Morgans[_2_]]

>
I fly a Mooney so speed restrictions are not uncommon when approaching
> busy GA fields.
> Strangely about a month ago I was coming into SMO VFR and about the
> time I crossed the fence tower said "93V, you're too fast".

Just a thought, but was it the same voice you heard while talking to the tower?

I was thinking it could have been an onlooker (like mxsmanic) standing by the
fence with a handheld.

Could it be that the tower got a speed from a radar sweep that was taken just
before you slowed down?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

> "Mxsmanic" wrote in message

> <...> I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
>> but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
>> listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
>> to recall discrepancies.

Right....

You wouldn't know a discrepancy if it hit you in the ass.
--
Jim in NC

[A Lieberma]

Emily > wrote in
:

> It's not trolling, it's frustration.

Exactly right Emily, thanks for understanding.

To ask input from folks and have no intent of utilizing all the outstanding
advice / answers just sits wrong with me especially if he is only in a
simulator.

It's not like he is even using the simulator to prepare for flying a real
plane. He is using the simulator as if it is a real plane and it's not.

It'a a game and to say he can't trust a game to simulate the real thing and
expect real pilots to expect to understand why the simulator isn't like the
real thing is rediculous.

He should post his simulator performance training questions in a simulator
group if he has no intent of getting in a real plane.

Allen

[Wade Hasbrouck]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 02:26:24 +0200, Mxsmanic >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>What is a spam can? A small aircraft?
>
> Yes.
>
> Named after the metal cans a certain canned meat is sold in.

I would probably say "Cessna 150" :-) Lots of friendships are either made
or destroyed in Cessna 150's :-)

Wade Hasbrouck
PP-ASEL
http://spaces.live.com/wadehas

[Kev]

Emily wrote:
> buttman wrote:
> > A Lieberma wrote:
> >> It's not like you are getting any benefit from simulation since you wont'
> >> get in a REAL PLANE.
> >
> > now who's the one trolling
> >
> It's not trolling, it's frustration.

Then either put him in your kill file, or don't answer him. PLEASE.
You're worse than the disease.

Regards, Kev

[Emily]

Kev wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> buttman wrote:
>>> A Lieberma wrote:
>>>> It's not like you are getting any benefit from simulation since you wont'
>>>> get in a REAL PLANE.
>>> now who's the one trolling
>>>
>> It's not trolling, it's frustration.
>
> Then either put him in your kill file, or don't answer him. PLEASE.
> You're worse than the disease.
>
> Regards, Kev
>
He's in MY kill file, but no one else's. Me personally, I've tried
killing threads, but some of them I'd still like to read.

[Greg Farris]

In article m>,
says...

>Then either put him in your kill file, or don't answer him. PLEASE.
>You're worse than the disease.
>


Go ahead Kev - push it. If it doesn't move, push harder!

He's hijacked the entire group, and you're still defending him on the pretext
that he's "polite". Take a look at the threads - there's nothing left in
rec.aviation.piloting except Mxsmaniac, who has never been in an airplane. He
must be gloating about this insidious victory.

I'm about to check out of here - I'll check back in a few months to see what
you all decided to do about it. . .

GF

[Wade Hasbrouck]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 01:37:19 +0200, Mxsmanic >
> wrote:
>
>>I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
>>know how fast or slow they can go?
>
> They usually do. ATC has a computer database of aircraft types that
> gives them all the info they need, sometimes including a sample photo,
> which can be useful for ground controllers.

Also, I believe the radar information contains ground speed, but I could be
wrong, but knowing the ground speed they can tell if they need you to speed
up or slow down based on where you are at. Was approaching Renton from the
north, with them landing to the north. Was told "Cessna xxxx, Enter
downwind via the East Channel, there is a Cessna just turning crosswind so
could I have you slow up just a bit?" I was doing about 90 kias, with the
tail wind about 100 kts ground speed.

[601XL Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> ATC never gives me speed instructions in simulation; how common are
> they in real life? I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
> know how fast or slow they can go?
>
> Also, don't controllers give wind speed and direction when clearing
> someone for take-off? I never get that in simulation, but I could
> swear that I've heard it regularly in real ATC.
>
> And another thing: Do controllers provide altimeter settings only in
> specific circumstances, or what? Apparently after a handoff from one
> center to another they give altimeter settings, but when otherwise?
>
> I don't trust ATC in the simulation much. It provides some practice
> but there's a lot missing, and even with the little bit of ATC I've
> listened to in real life (years ago--can't easily do it here), I seem
> to recall discrepancies.
>

MSFS is exactly like real life flying. You have said so yourself many,
many times.

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> ATC never gives me speed instructions in simulation; how common are
> they in real life? I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
> know how fast or slow they can go?
>
Sometimes you never hear a speed restriction, some days when
the terminal areas are congested, you hear them continually.
We were coming back from San Jose on United (ATC on 9) and
everybody going into Dulles was getting speed restrictions to
meter things into there.

[Mxsmanic]

601XL Builder writes:

> MSFS is exactly like real life flying. You have said so yourself many,
> many times.

Where?

--
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[new_CFI]

A Lieberma > wrote in
. 18:

> Emily > wrote in
> :
>
>> It's not trolling, it's frustration.
>
> Exactly right Emily, thanks for understanding.


Ok, I have only been here for a short time and have come to understand
why everyone dislikes Mxsmanic.

That being said, he usually asks good questions....if not for him, for
the hundreds of people who lurk but have a fear of posting, a fear that
may be fueled by negative replies.

I say if he asks a question you think a student pilot might ask, reply
to the lurkers that have the same question. Maybe Mxsmanic won't get
anything out of it, but someone who truly is interested will.

I understand the frustration, but remember he may ask the question, but
others with the same question may be reading...just a thought.

[EridanMan]

> I say if he asks a question you think a student pilot might ask, reply
> to the lurkers that have the same question. Maybe Mxsmanic won't get
> anything out of it, but someone who truly is interested will.
>
> I understand the frustration, but remember he may ask the question, but
> others with the same question may be reading...just a thought.

As a current student pilot whose learned a good deal reading the
responses to MX's posts, I concur with you 100%.

[Allan9]

Speed restrictions were normally utilized to maintain ezisting spacing
between aircraft. It also allowed the controller a norma for achieveing
spacong.
Al

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> ATC never gives me speed instructions in simulation; how common are
>> they in real life? I presume they know enough about aircraft types to
>> know how fast or slow they can go?
>>
> Sometimes you never hear a speed restriction, some days when
> the terminal areas are congested, you hear them continually.
> We were coming back from San Jose on United (ATC on 9) and
> everybody going into Dulles was getting speed restrictions to
> meter things into there.

[Greg Farris]

In article m>,
says...
>
>
>> I say if he asks a question you think a student pilot might ask, reply
>> to the lurkers that have the same question. Maybe Mxsmanic won't get
>> anything out of it, but someone who truly is interested will.
>>
>> I understand the frustration, but remember he may ask the question, but
>> others with the same question may be reading...just a thought.
>
>As a current student pilot whose learned a good deal reading the
>responses to MX's posts, I concur with you 100%.
>

Difference between you and him is that you don't come here to insult and
manipulate people, then laugh behind their backs while they fall for the
trick in their desire to be helpful. Once he's driven everyone away with
this tactic it's going to put a dent in your learning. He's bad news -
trying hard to destroy this group - succeeding brilliantly thus far, but
the opposition is rallying.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Greg Farris wrote:
>
> Difference between you and him is that you don't come here to insult and
> manipulate people, then laugh behind their backs while they fall for the
> trick in their desire to be helpful. Once he's driven everyone away with
> this tactic it's going to put a dent in your learning. He's bad news -
> trying hard to destroy this group - succeeding brilliantly thus far, but
> the opposition is rallying.
>

My personal plan is to answer the questions that I can, that apply to
real flying, and ignore the rest of the posts.

A simple tactic, and I don't see the need for organized opposition.

[Judah]

"new_CFI" > wrote in news:Xns985DBA121928FNonenospamcom@
216.168.3.50:

> A Lieberma > wrote in
> . 18:
>
>> Emily > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> It's not trolling, it's frustration.
>>
>> Exactly right Emily, thanks for understanding.
>
>
> Ok, I have only been here for a short time and have come to understand
> why everyone dislikes Mxsmanic.
>
> That being said, he usually asks good questions....if not for him, for
> the hundreds of people who lurk but have a fear of posting, a fear that
> may be fueled by negative replies.
>
> I say if he asks a question you think a student pilot might ask, reply
> to the lurkers that have the same question. Maybe Mxsmanic won't get
> anything out of it, but someone who truly is interested will.
>
> I understand the frustration, but remember he may ask the question, but
> others with the same question may be reading...just a thought.

I plonked him about a week ago, and my productivity has been up at work
ever since.

That said, I must say that I think he is responsible for a large peak of
activity on this newsgroup, including some VERY entertaining posts!

:)

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"A Lieberma" > wrote in message
. 18...
> He should post his simulator performance training questions in a simulator
> group if he has no intent of getting in a real plane.
>
> Allen

He does, and we're sick of him over there too!
Oz/Crash Lander

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"new_CFI" > wrote in message
...
> That being said, he usually asks good questions....if not for him, for
> the hundreds of people who lurk but have a fear of posting, a fear that
> may be fueled by negative replies.
>
> I say if he asks a question you think a student pilot might ask, reply
> to the lurkers that have the same question. Maybe Mxsmanic won't get
> anything out of it, but someone who truly is interested will.
>

Yes, but I think you'll find that a lot of the frustration seems to stem
from the fact that Myxamitosis won't even bother to try and research the
answers himself! He'd rather just take the lazy option and have real pilots
spoon feed him the answers. I'm a 3.3hr student pilot myself, and I've found
that flying can be very rewarding. What makes the learning process rewarding
is that fact that you can research the answers yourself, and then truly say
YOU did it, rather than say "I got all the answers off a bunch of pilots so
it must be right!"
Oz/Crash Lander

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
>> You have so much interest in this, you have got to get up in the real
>> thing...
>
> Not possible or practical at this time, I'm afraid.
>

It's a bugger that minimum age restriction isn't it! ;-)
Oz/Crash Lander

[Mxsmanic]

Crash Lander writes:

> It's a bugger that minimum age restriction isn't it!

I don't know if there is a minimum age in France, but if there is, I'm
surely beyond it, since there are other pilots of my age.

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