Right seat policies

[Mxsmanic]

In small aircraft, if I understand correctly, there's no law that says
you can't put anyone you want in the right seat, as long as there's a
licensed pilot in command. So, what are your right-seat policies? Do
you put passengers in the seat? Only other pilots? Kids? Do you
ever have your pilot or non-pilot right-seat passenger help with any
part of the flight (reading charts, radio, autopilot, or actually
flying)?

Do pilots consider the right seat a place of honor for special guests
or passengers, or is it just another place to seat someone?

If you're married, does your spouse ride in the right seat? If so, is
he or she a pilot, too? If you have kids, do they ride up front?

Some people are prone to motion sickness if they aren't riding in one
of the front seats of a car. Is this true for aircraft, too (that is,
are there people who get motion sickness in a small plane if they
aren't riding up front)?

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[Timmay]

I always sit in the right seat.

I don't care who's sitting next to me or in the back, as long as
they're not throwing the W&B out of whack. I don't recall ever flying
with passenger(s) and not having somebody sit up front. If we're out
for a joyride, I'll always let my tag-alongs fly for a while (trim and
rudders are still there, and most people don't catch on too quickly as
to what I'm doing).

Mxsmanic wrote:
> In small aircraft, if I understand correctly, there's no law that says
> you can't put anyone you want in the right seat, as long as there's a
> licensed pilot in command. So, what are your right-seat policies? Do
> you put passengers in the seat? Only other pilots? Kids? Do you
> ever have your pilot or non-pilot right-seat passenger help with any
> part of the flight (reading charts, radio, autopilot, or actually
> flying)?
>
> Do pilots consider the right seat a place of honor for special guests
> or passengers, or is it just another place to seat someone?
>
> If you're married, does your spouse ride in the right seat? If so, is
> he or she a pilot, too? If you have kids, do they ride up front?
>
> Some people are prone to motion sickness if they aren't riding in one
> of the front seats of a car. Is this true for aircraft, too (that is,
> are there people who get motion sickness in a small plane if they
> aren't riding up front)?
>
> --
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[Emily]

Strange question. I don't really care who sits in the right seat,
although I've never flown children. I don't think I'd like a child in
the front, they mess with stuff. I even let pretty much anyone fly...my
brother once made a 90 degree turn in IMC and it was the highlight of
his month (and a near heart attack for me).

Sometimes I sit in the right seat, even solo. Except in one of the
twins I fly, because there are only brakes on the left. <g>

One thing I never do is fly in the back. I have been airsick back there
once, I feel a loss of control, and don't want to be liable for
something stupid the person up front does. I've never gotten a clear
answer on the liability issue, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> In small aircraft, if I understand correctly, there's no law that says
> you can't put anyone you want in the right seat, as long as there's a
> licensed pilot in command.

There's no requirement that you can't put them in the left seat. It's
commonly done when the right seat pilot is also a flight instructor,
but it could be any legal pilot.

> So, what are your right-seat policies? Do
> you put passengers in the seat?

Most people treat the right seat as the first passenger seat. I'll
let anybody sit there. If they show an interest in aviation and
conditions don't contraindicate it, I'll let them fly. For those
really interested, I'll let them operate the radios etc...

> If you're married, does your spouse ride in the right seat? If so, is
> he or she a pilot, too? If you have kids, do they ride up front?

My spouse is half the time in the right seat, and half the time in
the left (she's also a pilot). I've let my kids fly in the right
seat as welll.
>
> Some people are prone to motion sickness if they aren't riding in one
> of the front seats of a car. Is this true for aircraft, too (that is,
> are there people who get motion sickness in a small plane if they
> aren't riding up front)?
>
Definitely. The forces of the plane work around the center of
gravity which is usually some where around the back of the front
seat. The rear seat of some aircraft will drift around a lot
more than the front. The closest I ever came to being sick in
a small plane was riding in the back of a 182 on a gusty day,
lots of swinging back and forth.

[Mxsmanic]

Ron Natalie writes:

> There's no requirement that you can't put them in the left seat. It's
> commonly done when the right seat pilot is also a flight instructor,
> but it could be any legal pilot.

Yes, but I presume that outside of flight instruction, it's unusual to
put someone else in the left seat (especially if that someone is not a
pilot).

It looks like most aircraft have some things that are only accessible
from the left side, although I guess all the important stuff is
duplicated (?).

> Definitely. The forces of the plane work around the center of
> gravity which is usually some where around the back of the front
> seat. The rear seat of some aircraft will drift around a lot
> more than the front. The closest I ever came to being sick in
> a small plane was riding in the back of a 182 on a gusty day,
> lots of swinging back and forth.

I'll remember to avoid back seats. I can get motion sickness in a
vehicle if there's a lot of movement and I can't see outside.

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[Sylvain]

Emily wrote:

> Strange question. I don't really care who sits in the right seat,
> although I've never flown children. I don't think I'd like a child in
> the front, they mess with stuff. I even let pretty much anyone fly...my
> brother once made a 90 degree turn in IMC and it was the highlight of
> his month (and a near heart attack for me).

Flying kids can be fun though; ever volunteered to fly 'Young Eagles'?
In my (limited) experience, they don't mess with stuff when flying;
actually the only really disruptive passengers I have had were
adults, folks who cannot stand the idea of not being in control,
not kids. What surprised me a couple of times is that even when
offered to fly the aircraft, some people decline, either not
interested, or worried about breaking something (even when assured
that it wouldn't be the case); I cannot imagine declining to play
with the controls if offered to do so aboard any kind of machinery!
but may be is it just me :-)

> Sometimes I sit in the right seat, even solo.

that's what I do these days; still trying to finish this
CFI thing started an awful long time ago.

> One thing I never do is fly in the back. I have been airsick back there
> once, I feel a loss of control,

I have done that a couple of times on CAP flights and quite frankly
I don't enjoy it very much for the same reasons; it might not be
so bad if I were just a passenger enjoying the view, but I was
busy doing stuff in the back (plotting things on charts, taking
pictures, working on the laptop) and I was not really happy at the
end of the flights...

--Sylvain

[Emily]

Sylvain wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>
> Flying kids can be fun though; ever volunteered to fly 'Young Eagles'?
Nah. I don't like being around children much anyway. I wouldn't say I
hate them, but I don't want to go out of my way to be around them. I'll
stick with teaching adults to fly.

>What surprised me a couple of times is that even when
> offered to fly the aircraft, some people decline
It took my brother four flights to even put his hands on the controls.
He was scared that if I took my hands off the controls, we'd crash.

> I have done that a couple of times on CAP flights and quite frankly
> I don't enjoy it very much for the same reasons;
CAP requires sitting in the back? <rethinks going to that meeting this week>
The loss of control I can learn to deal with, but I hate the motion
sickness. I don't get it on commercial flights, though, go figure.

[Sylvain]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Yes, but I presume that outside of flight instruction, it's unusual to
> put someone else in the left seat (especially if that someone is not a
> pilot).

it is unusual but mostly out of habit; not everything is duplicated,
but most of the stuff are reachable from either side. You have to
get used to some paralax effect but that's not a biggy; it is a
good idea though to first practice flying from the right seat with
someone qualified in the left: not so much because of what's inside
the cockpit, but because of the different perspective when looking
outside; at first, you end up climbing in left turns and diving
in right turns because you use the wrong reference relative to
the horizon; and landings are crooked as well.

As Emily pointed out though, some aircraft (for instance some
Piper Cherokees) only have brakes on the pedals on the left side.

> I'll remember to avoid back seats. I can get motion sickness in a
> vehicle if there's a lot of movement and I can't see outside.

the view from the backseat is often more limited as well, and
ventilation not as good...

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Emily wrote:

> CAP requires sitting in the back? <rethinks going to that meeting this
> week> The loss of control I can learn to deal with, but I hate the motion
> sickness. I don't get it on commercial flights, though, go figure.

depends what job you are doing that day; on aircraft that allow
it (CAP has a 60hp per person rule), the pilot and observer sit
in front, scanners (or other roles, e.g., SDIS, etc.) sit in
the back; you can avoid it by flying aircraft that only take
two crews :-) and you got to qualify as a scanner before becoming
a mission pilot. Oh, and the whole qualifications thing takes
for bloody ever, even if you already know the material inside
out... It is as much a test of patience and dedication
as it is a test of skill :-) -- I keep at it because I am
a very patient person, but mostly because I got to hang around
really nice people.

--Sylvain

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>
>> I'll remember to avoid back seats. I can get motion sickness in a
>> vehicle if there's a lot of movement and I can't see outside.
>
> the view from the backseat is often more limited as well, and
> ventilation not as good...
>

A lot depends on the aircraft. For some you sit in the back when flying solo
and passengers are typically put in the front seat (There is no right and
left)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Yes, but I presume that outside of flight instruction, it's unusual to
> put someone else in the left seat (especially if that someone is not a
> pilot).
>
Actually, it's the comfort level of the pilot in flying from the
right side. Instructors spend almost all their time in the right
seat so they don't have any problems flying there. Most pilots
are inexperienced and extremely uncomfortable flying from the
right side. Of course, the other problem is that most of the
instruments are set up to be convenient for the left seat pilot
and as you go up in complexity you find that the right seat
controls sometimes aren't as complete. For example, in my
plane there are no brakes on the right side, so I wouldn't put
anybody but an experienced pilot in the left seat.

> It looks like most aircraft have some things that are only accessible
> from the left side, although I guess all the important stuff is
> duplicated (?).

Actually, just the yoke and the rudder pedals in most planes. Most
light aircraft are small enough that you can see all the other
instruments from the right side. I actually got to fly in the
right seat of a Bonanza that had right side basic instruments
as well, but that's pretty uncommon.

[Ron Natalie]

Sylvain wrote:

>
> Flying kids can be fun though; ever volunteered to fly 'Young Eagles'?
> In my (limited) experience, they don't mess with stuff when flying;
> actually the only really disruptive passengers I have had were
> adults,

I fly Young Eagles. Some where around 11 or 12 you can find
a kid interested in aviation and I find the most interested one
and put him in the right side so he can have the opportunity
to control the aircraft. Younger than ten, they tend to chatter
away like it was an amusement park ride so I don't bother.

[Ron Natalie]

Emily wrote:

> Nah. I don't like being around children much anyway. I wouldn't say I
> hate them, but I don't want to go out of my way to be around them. I'll
> stick with teaching adults to fly.

Today's young innocent faces, are tomorrow's clientele.

Of course, it was flying YE that I had my engine failure. The kids
(8 year old cub scouts) were ready to go up again. I had to point
out that I didn't think my plane was going to be able to fly again.

What was nicer was two out of the three parents actually waited around
the airport until I was done dealing with the state police and other
hassles to thank me for bringing their kids back alive. Similarly,
I got a letter from the EAA YE office thanking me for not killing any
Young Eagles.

[Emily]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>
>> Nah. I don't like being around children much anyway. I wouldn't say
>> I hate them, but I don't want to go out of my way to be around them.
>> I'll stick with teaching adults to fly.
>
> Today's young innocent faces, are tomorrow's clientele.
>
> Of course, it was flying YE that I had my engine failure.

I had my cousin in the plane during my first complete avionics failure.
My friend and I laughed through the entire thing...we'd been in solid
IMC in the same plane the day before and were just so relieved it held
off that all we could do was laugh. Anyway, it was just your average
run of the mill failure in VFR. Once everything died and my friend and I
took our headsets off on final, she thought something was REALLY wrong.
I guess we didn't explain that the engine would keep turning.

My cousin freaked out once we got home. Her parents lectured me to no
end about how dangerous it was and how she shouldn't have even been with
me and how I needed to take flying more seriously (they were upset that
I thought the whole thing was funny). They'd thought she was sitting at
the airport while I went to fly. So yeah, I guess I would hate to deal
with parents.

But seriously, it was funny! Her first time in a small airplane and the
entire stack decides to die and we end up with light gun signals.
Light gun signals! I went years without seeing that. <g>

[Grumman-581[_4_]]

On Oct 15, 5:03 pm, Emily > wrote:
> Strange question. I don't really care who sits in the right seat,
> although I've never flown children. I don't think I'd like a child in
> the front, they mess with stuff. I even let pretty much anyone fly...my
> brother once made a 90 degree turn in IMC and it was the highlight of
> his month (and a near heart attack for me).

I was taking a cousin, his wife, and one of his kids for a flight
once... I put the lighter people in the back (i.e. the wife and kid)...
I told my cousin that under no circumstances was he to touch the
controls... I even asked them if any of them had a tendency for motion
sickness and if so, there were some plastic bags in the pouches behind
the front seats... Of course, they wanted to go see their place from
the air and during one of the turns while orbiting the place, my cousin
panics and grabs the yoke in a death grip... I proceeded to put my
right elbow into his ribs / chest with a force sufficient to break his
grip, if not also break his ribs... The teenage kid also got sick and
puked in the plane, not managing to get it into the plastic bag...
That's been quite a few years ago and come to think of it, I don't
think that I've seen or talked to any of them since then... Moral of
the story -- don't fly with anyone in the front seat that you're not
willing or able to knock unconscious if it comes to that... Secondary
moral of the story, use large barf bags and tie them over the kid's
head before the flight -- it's not like they have any brain cells that
could be killed from the lack of oxygen anyway...

My daughter sometimes flies up front in the right seat, sometimes in
the rear... When she was younger, she was all that keen about staying
in one place, so she would climb forward to look over the seats one
minute and climb back to look into the baggage area the next minute...
Let's just say that trying to keep an aircraft trimmed for a constant
altitude in this sort of situation ends up being a constant battle...

[Margy Natalie]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> Yes, but I presume that outside of flight instruction, it's unusual to
>> put someone else in the left seat (especially if that someone is not a
>> pilot).
>>
> Actually, it's the comfort level of the pilot in flying from the
> right side. Instructors spend almost all their time in the right
> seat so they don't have any problems flying there. Most pilots
> are inexperienced and extremely uncomfortable flying from the
> right side. Of course, the other problem is that most of the
> instruments are set up to be convenient for the left seat pilot
> and as you go up in complexity you find that the right seat
> controls sometimes aren't as complete. For example, in my
> plane there are no brakes on the right side, so I wouldn't put
> anybody but an experienced pilot in the left seat.

But ... I put both of my kids in the left seat AT ALTITUDE with an
instructor in the right seat. The Navion is roomy enough that I could
take off with the instructor in the right seat and get up to altitude,
hand the controls over to the instructor and then switch seats with the
kids who were in the back.

Margy
>
>> It looks like most aircraft have some things that are only accessible
>> from the left side, although I guess all the important stuff is
>> duplicated (?).
>
>
> Actually, just the yoke and the rudder pedals in most planes. Most
> light aircraft are small enough that you can see all the other
> instruments from the right side. I actually got to fly in the
> right seat of a Bonanza that had right side basic instruments
> as well, but that's pretty uncommon.

[Skywise]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> In small aircraft, if I understand correctly, there's no law that says
> you can't put anyone you want in the right seat, as long as there's a
> licensed pilot in command.

The one time I flew a plane I sat in the left seat. Yes, I
had the controls. No it was not a lesson. No, I did not stick
to straight and level - I know what 4.5 G's feels like in an
inverted dive. I also know that formation flying is difficult
when your only previous experience is MSFS. And, yes, it was
all legal.

Now, Mxsmanic, how did I get to do that? :)

(if anyone else knows the answer, please don't spoil it for
our friend here)

BTW, flying left seat in a Jetranger is fun too. No, I did not
have the controls. :(

Brian
--
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[Timmay]

LOL, that's the whole reason I fly from the right seat. I've been
instructing for twice as many hours as I have from the left seat, so if
I were to hop back into the left, I'd probably be sideloading the hell
out of those landings like the first time I switched to the right
during the CFI training.


Sylvain wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > Yes, but I presume that outside of flight instruction, it's unusual to
> > put someone else in the left seat (especially if that someone is not a
> > pilot).
>
> it is unusual but mostly out of habit; not everything is duplicated,
> but most of the stuff are reachable from either side. You have to
> get used to some paralax effect but that's not a biggy; it is a
> good idea though to first practice flying from the right seat with
> someone qualified in the left: not so much because of what's inside
> the cockpit, but because of the different perspective when looking
> outside; at first, you end up climbing in left turns and diving
> in right turns because you use the wrong reference relative to
> the horizon; and landings are crooked as well.
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

I don't allow anyone to sit in the left seat because the right ejection seat
has been In-Op since I haven't been able to afford the inspection. What do
you expect? I only make $637/mo.

[Kev]

Sylvain wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > I'll remember to avoid back seats. I can get motion sickness in a
> > vehicle if there's a lot of movement and I can't see outside.
>
> the view from the backseat is often more limited as well, and
> ventilation not as good...

Nor is the heat as good (if any!). In the winter, you can freeze to
death in the back seat of a small plane without a blanket. while the
pilots' toes are roasting.

Kev

[Mxsmanic]

Kev writes:

> Nor is the heat as good (if any!). In the winter, you can freeze to
> death in the back seat of a small plane without a blanket. while the
> pilots' toes are roasting.

Why are expensive aircraft still missing the amenities that
inexpensive cars already had decades ago?

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[Sylvain]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Why are expensive aircraft still missing the amenities that
> inexpensive cars already had decades ago?
>

Excellent question. Seriously, the ten years old cheapo
econobox that I drive is more confortable and has better
ergonomics than most aircraft I fly; but then, most of
these aircraft are far older than my car, which might
explain the difference; I started flying a brand spanking
new Symphony recently and it is really a major improvement
(and it is actually less noisy inside than my car)

--Sylvain

[Dave S]

I fly from the right seat as PIC all the time. Not as an instructor
either. I can see all instruments and fly by reference to them from the
right if need be. I put pilot rated passengers in the left seat when I
do so (in case certain switches are difficult to reach... in your case,
just move the keyboard over 2 feet to the left of you..)

Dave

Mxsmanic wrote:
> In small aircraft, if I understand correctly, there's no law that says
> you can't put anyone you want in the right seat, as long as there's a
> licensed pilot in command. So, what are your right-seat policies? Do
> you put passengers in the seat? Only other pilots? Kids? Do you
> ever have your pilot or non-pilot right-seat passenger help with any
> part of the flight (reading charts, radio, autopilot, or actually
> flying)?
>
> Do pilots consider the right seat a place of honor for special guests
> or passengers, or is it just another place to seat someone?
>
> If you're married, does your spouse ride in the right seat? If so, is
> he or she a pilot, too? If you have kids, do they ride up front?
>
> Some people are prone to motion sickness if they aren't riding in one
> of the front seats of a car. Is this true for aircraft, too (that is,
> are there people who get motion sickness in a small plane if they
> aren't riding up front)?
>

[Mxsmanic]

Sylvain writes:

> Excellent question. Seriously, the ten years old cheapo
> econobox that I drive is more confortable and has better
> ergonomics than most aircraft I fly; but then, most of
> these aircraft are far older than my car, which might
> explain the difference; I started flying a brand spanking
> new Symphony recently and it is really a major improvement
> (and it is actually less noisy inside than my car)

I had thought that perhaps weight was a major constraint, but truly in
many respects private aircraft seem to be stuck in the 1920s,
comfort-wise.

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[Mxsmanic]

Dave S writes:

> I fly from the right seat as PIC all the time. Not as an instructor
> either. I can see all instruments and fly by reference to them from the
> right if need be.

Okay, but what's the advantage to being on the right?

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[Viperdoc[_1_]]

And how might you know that, never having sat in one?

[Mxsmanic]

Viperdoc writes:

> And how might you know that, never having sat in one?

Descriptions, specifications, and images.

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[Dave Stadt]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Dave S writes:
>
>> I fly from the right seat as PIC all the time. Not as an instructor
>> either. I can see all instruments and fly by reference to them from the
>> right if need be.
>
> Okay, but what's the advantage to being on the right?

Nobody will accuse you of being a Democrat.

[Dave S]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Dave S writes:
>
>
>>I fly from the right seat as PIC all the time. Not as an instructor
>>either. I can see all instruments and fly by reference to them from the
>>right if need be.
>
>
> Okay, but what's the advantage to being on the right?
>

For the most part.. there isn't one..

But why? because I can..

[Grumman-581[_4_]]

On Oct 16, 12:29 pm, "Kev" > wrote:
> Nor is the heat as good (if any!). In the winter, you can freeze to
> death in the back seat of a small plane without a blanket. while the
> pilots' toes are roasting.

I was flying back from a day on the beach at Galveston one evening... I
had just been wearing flops, but I don't like the feel of them when I'm
flying, so I toss them in the back and fly barefoot... It was late in
the year and had gotten a bit cool, so I turne on the heater... Didn't
need my feet on the pedals, so they were flat on the floor... The route
back to my home airport didn't require much in the way of banked turns,
so I never had to move my feet... I'm doing a straight in approach for
27 at AXH and I then needed to operate the rudder pedals once I got on
short final since there is *always* a crosswind at AXH... Let's just
say that it was an interesting experience... I couldn't keep my feet on
the rudder pedals for more than a couple of seconds because they were
so hot... I quickly turned the heat off, but they weren't going to
dissipate that heat very quickly... End result were some rather toasty
areas on the bottom of my feet and a longer rollout than normal... And
a note to myself to not do that again... <grin>