North Korea's Air Force and The Bomb

[Jay Honeck]

Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.

In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests, which seem to confirm our
greatest fears, I found the following tid-bits of information:

- That tiny country (smaller than the state of Mississippi) has an air
force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274 helicopters!
- They've got over 8,800 anti-aircraft guns
- They're fielding a 1,000,000-man military force, with a population of
just 23 million
- They have just 36 paved-runway airports
- Their GDP is just $40 billion per year -- far less than Bill Gates is
worth, personally.
- Some of their planes are stationed just 6 minutes' flight from Seoul

Their pilot training is apparently abyssmal, thanks to fuel and spare
parts shortages. (One estimate shows that their pilots are flying just
7 hours per YEAR.) However, they have fielded an incredible fighting
force, at the expense of virtually all else. They have suffered 11
straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
because of outside aid -- yet they persist in developing incredibly
expensive weapons systems, like missiles and atomic bombs.

In short, these folks are truly, really scary. I honestly didn't think
much of them, until recently, but I now fully understand their "axis of
evil" designation -- and why we're hesitating to react.

Here are some decent sources of more information:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html

So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Emily]

Jay Honeck wrote:
<snip>

One of the worst thing about the "war on terror" (besides the fact I've
lost hundreds of dollars in toiletries) is that it distracts us from
situations like North Korea.

I am supposed to go to Seoul in December for business and I can't say
that it's something I'm looking forward to.

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>They have suffered 11
> straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
> because of outside aid --

Haven't really kept up on this as I know I should, but to me, the foreign
aid should be the first thing to stop!
Crash Lander

[randall g]

On 15 Oct 2006 17:23:47 -0700, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
>current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.


The world (ie the UN) is going to nothing, which is exactly what they
are doing with Iran. They just passed a meaningless resolution that not
only will not be enforced by any other country, but will bring the USA a
huge amount of criticism if they actually do anything.

Unfortunately the entire world is going to be working against the USA as
long as Bush is president. This is a sad and stupid fact, but it's true,
and America's enemies know it. The best thing about President H. Clinton
is that only a Democrat will get any cooperation from the rest of the
world. Even then, it will probably not be enough to save Western
civilization.

So enjoy your flying while it is still possible (ie we have both the
healthy economy and freedom of action necessary to support it). It is
only in the Anglosphere that private pilots like me can fly at will
(without being stinking rich). I hope this state of affairs will last a
few more years yet, but eventually our enemies will set off some nukes
and put the world into a severe depression.

Oh, and have a nice day :-)



randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

They might have a large combat force, but no way then can stand up to
our air and ground capability. We would be in a much more favorable
position to respond, with force if necessary, had we not degraded our
resources and credibility in Iraq. Now we have to sit and watch real
WMD's being developed and not able to do anything about it. But I am
sure our fearless leader will come with an equally brilliant plan to
solve this problem.


Jay Honeck wrote:
> Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
> anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
> topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.
>
> In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
> forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests, which seem to confirm our
> greatest fears, I found the following tid-bits of information:
>
> - That tiny country (smaller than the state of Mississippi) has an air
> force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274 helicopters!
> - They've got over 8,800 anti-aircraft guns
> - They're fielding a 1,000,000-man military force, with a population of
> just 23 million
> - They have just 36 paved-runway airports
> - Their GDP is just $40 billion per year -- far less than Bill Gates is
> worth, personally.
> - Some of their planes are stationed just 6 minutes' flight from Seoul
>
> Their pilot training is apparently abyssmal, thanks to fuel and spare
> parts shortages. (One estimate shows that their pilots are flying just
> 7 hours per YEAR.) However, they have fielded an incredible fighting
> force, at the expense of virtually all else. They have suffered 11
> straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
> because of outside aid -- yet they persist in developing incredibly
> expensive weapons systems, like missiles and atomic bombs.
>
> In short, these folks are truly, really scary. I honestly didn't think
> much of them, until recently, but I now fully understand their "axis of
> evil" designation -- and why we're hesitating to react.
>
> Here are some decent sources of more information:
>
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm
> https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html
>
> So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
> current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

randall g wrote:
> On 15 Oct 2006 17:23:47 -0700, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>>So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
>>current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.
>
>
>
> The world (ie the UN) is going to nothing, which is exactly what they
> are doing with Iran. They just passed a meaningless resolution that not
> only will not be enforced by any other country, but will bring the USA a
> huge amount of criticism if they actually do anything.
>
> Unfortunately the entire world is going to be working against the USA as
> long as Bush is president. This is a sad and stupid fact, but it's true,
> and America's enemies know it. The best thing about President H. Clinton
> is that only a Democrat will get any cooperation from the rest of the
> world. Even then, it will probably not be enough to save Western
> civilization.

You mean like the cooperation that Billy Clinton got from North Korea?
The difference between Clinton and Bush is that Billy believed the North
Koreans would actually stick totheir agreements. Bush knows they won't
so he isn't willing to make any unilateral agreements with them.
Personally, I don't think we have a dog in this fight until they have a
weapon that can reach US soil. And even then, I don't think a
pre-emptive attack is the right strategy. We didn't attack Russia in
the 50s did we?

I think pre-emptively attacking Iran has proven to be a huge mistake and
I believe that North Korea would love nothing more than to sucker us
into something similar there. The folks that have a dog in this fight
are China, South Korea, Japan, etc. Let them police this one.


Matt

[[email protected]]

The solution to North Korea is China. North Korea is China's
Frankenstein monster.

When China decides that the monster has gotten too far out of hand, and
is a threat to China, North Korea will be squashed like a bug. The
Chinese could roll through North Korea in less than a week, even if
North Korea put up a fight.

The only other solution is if North Korea collapses like East Germany
did, but with China providing aid, that won't happen until China cuts
them off.

Dean

[NW_Pilot]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
> anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
> topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.
>
> In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
> forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests, which seem to confirm our
> greatest fears, I found the following tid-bits of information:
>
> - That tiny country (smaller than the state of Mississippi) has an air
> force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274 helicopters!
> - They've got over 8,800 anti-aircraft guns
> - They're fielding a 1,000,000-man military force, with a population of
> just 23 million
> - They have just 36 paved-runway airports
> - Their GDP is just $40 billion per year -- far less than Bill Gates is
> worth, personally.
> - Some of their planes are stationed just 6 minutes' flight from Seoul
>
> Their pilot training is apparently abyssmal, thanks to fuel and spare
> parts shortages. (One estimate shows that their pilots are flying just
> 7 hours per YEAR.) However, they have fielded an incredible fighting
> force, at the expense of virtually all else. They have suffered 11
> straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
> because of outside aid -- yet they persist in developing incredibly
> expensive weapons systems, like missiles and atomic bombs.
>
> In short, these folks are truly, really scary. I honestly didn't think
> much of them, until recently, but I now fully understand their "axis of
> evil" designation -- and why we're hesitating to react.
>
> Here are some decent sources of more information:
>
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm
> https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html
>
> So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
> current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>


I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about how
bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government said
Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
Americans hahahahaha...B.S. Well I walked the streets of Beirut at night for
a few hours alone, myself a non Muslim on a Muslim holiday and nothing but
friendly people even the guys with the machine guns have proper muzzle
control and are friendlier than our police here in the states!!

I suggest that one look and think for themselves and make their own thoughts
and dismiss all the media/government hype! Yes, the government controls the
so called free and independent press and are resorting the "Religious" type
tactics to try and use Fear to control the citizens and rest of the world!

I think It is to late to do anything to North Korea with out massive
American Causalities we are already getting our asses whipped on other
foreign lands wich I belive we do not belong! We should have taken care of
North Korea in the 1950's but we settled for B.S. talks that never work.

We are more vulnerable now than ever before!!! They (the rest of the world)
knows this and I belive will exploit it in the near future...

Jay, the United Nation's "strategy" if you can call it a strategy is the
same as in the 1950's "Talk's" and any smart person will just tell them what
they want to hear and they are to dumb to realize this! It's all smoke and
mirrors and where there is smoke there is fire!

But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
for Myself. Just imagine if we were a civilized society we would not be
making up new rules/laws we would be removing ruels/laws!!!!

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
randall g > wrote:

> Unfortunately the entire world is going to be working against the USA as
> long as Bush is president. This is a sad and stupid fact, but it's true,
> and America's enemies know it.

I guess the "entire world" is just interested in a spineless @(**&$#@

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Dudley Henriques]

This is true. China is the key that will either unlock the door on the North
Korean question or keep it sealed tightly shut. It's China that controls the
North Korean economy (what little there is of it )
Dudley Henriques

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The solution to North Korea is China. North Korea is China's
> Frankenstein monster.
>
> When China decides that the monster has gotten too far out of hand, and
> is a threat to China, North Korea will be squashed like a bug. The
> Chinese could roll through North Korea in less than a week, even if
> North Korea put up a fight.
>
> The only other solution is if North Korea collapses like East Germany
> did, but with China providing aid, that won't happen until China cuts
> them off.
>
> Dean
>

[Jim Macklin]

All 36 airports should have the runways destroyed.
All power plants and switching stations that send power to
their nuclear factories should be bombed, you can't produce
nuke fuel without electricity.
All naval vessels in their harbors should be sunk.
All military depots, ammo dumps and warehouses should be
bombed.


On the second day we can offer the Iranians a deal.




"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ps.com...
| Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development
of
| anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought
I'd toss this
| topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.
|
| In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't
responded more
| forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests, which seem
to confirm our
| greatest fears, I found the following tid-bits of
information:
|
| - That tiny country (smaller than the state of
Mississippi) has an air
| force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274
helicopters!
| - They've got over 8,800 anti-aircraft guns
| - They're fielding a 1,000,000-man military force, with a
population of
| just 23 million
| - They have just 36 paved-runway airports
| - Their GDP is just $40 billion per year -- far less than
Bill Gates is
| worth, personally.
| - Some of their planes are stationed just 6 minutes'
flight from Seoul
|
| Their pilot training is apparently abyssmal, thanks to
fuel and spare
| parts shortages. (One estimate shows that their pilots
are flying just
| 7 hours per YEAR.) However, they have fielded an
incredible fighting
| force, at the expense of virtually all else. They have
suffered 11
| straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed
themselves only
| because of outside aid -- yet they persist in developing
incredibly
| expensive weapons systems, like missiles and atomic bombs.
|
| In short, these folks are truly, really scary. I honestly
didn't think
| much of them, until recently, but I now fully understand
their "axis of
| evil" designation -- and why we're hesitating to react.
|
| Here are some decent sources of more information:
|
|
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm
| https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html
|
| So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the
United Nation's
| current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that
approach.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[Dan Luke]

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

>
> I think pre-emptively attacking Iran has proven to be a huge mistake and I
> believe that North Korea would love nothing more than to sucker us into
> something similar there. The folks that have a dog in this fight are
> China, South Korea, Japan, etc. Let them police this one.
>
>

Amen.

--
Dan

"Fiction was invented the day Jonah arrived home and told his wife
that he was three days late because he had been swallowed by a
whale."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez

[randall g]

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:56:58 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
> wrote:

>I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about how
>bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government said
>Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
>Americans hahahahaha...

You must have been hallucinating. Nobody in the government said anything
of the sort. In fact your President has gone out of his way to praise
Islam as a peaceful religion, which it most certainly is not.


>But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
>for Myself.

You also make **** up.




randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

[Grumman-581[_4_]]

On Oct 15, 7:23 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> So what should we do? Nothing?

Nuke 'em... Awh, **** it, nuke all those ****in' communists and
socialists... After nuking North Korea, declare plural marriages legal
over there and next thing you know, it will be repopulated by
Mormons...



--
Hmmm... Let's see... Does anyone feel left out in my insults? I can
try to be more inclusive next time...

[randall g]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 01:27:51 GMT, Matt Whiting > wrote:

>I think pre-emptively attacking Iran has proven to be a huge mistake and
>I believe that North Korea would love nothing more than to sucker us
>into something similar there. The folks that have a dog in this fight
>are China, South Korea, Japan, etc. Let them police this one.


I'm not too worried about North Korea. You can trust atheists to not
want to die, even if they are somewhat unhinged. Iran is another story.
Their fundamental belief system says that life is meaningless and
anything that happens is the will of god. I think they will be far more
dangerous once they have nuclear weapons.





randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
> forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests,

in the whole story there are two things that keeps me thinking:

on the one hand, we have the gvt of North Korea who has
every motivation of bluffing the test (easy: big conventional
explosives, and then vent some radioactive material); their
whole nation is bankrupt and they need that kind of attention
both domestically -- great propaganda -- and internationally
(considering the aggressive US foreign policies, I am surprised
that Lichtenstein hasn't started testing nukes yet); on the
other hand we have our gvt who has every reason -- regardless
of the facts -- of pretending to believe the bluff because this
is something scary -- and fear has proved to be an excellent
political tool -- happening with perfect timing (right before
the elections and at an embarrassing time for the party in
power) is the best thing that could happen to them.

May be the rest of the world knows something we don't (twouldn't
be the first time, would it?)

--Sylvain

[Jay Honeck]

>The best thing about President H. Clinton
> is that only a Democrat will get any cooperation from the rest of the
> world.

I haven't checked lately, but I think Hillary skews more negative with
most voters than even Bush did at his lowest point.

It seems you either love her or hate her.

> So enjoy your flying while it is still possible (ie we have both the
> healthy economy and freedom of action necessary to support it). It is
> only in the Anglosphere that private pilots like me can fly at will
> (without being stinking rich). I hope this state of affairs will last a
> few more years yet, but eventually our enemies will set off some nukes
> and put the world into a severe depression.

This is why I'm surprised that we've done nothing -- this is a "clear
and present danger" and should be dealt with in some way.

It's why I'm even MORE surprised that China has done nothing. An apt
parallel would be for us to imagine a nuclear-armed Cuba or Mexico --
and I can't imagine we would sit still for that now any more than we
did in 1962.

I wonder what China is *really* doing right now?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Macklin]

When did we attack Iran?
Attacking Iraq got Libya to surrender several ship loads of
nuke weapons materials to the USA. It is better to strike
preemptively than to wait till they can put up a "fair
fight" the object is victory and not stalemate.



"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Matt Whiting" wrote:
|
| >
| > I think pre-emptively attacking Iran has proven to be a
huge mistake and I
| > believe that North Korea would love nothing more than to
sucker us into
| > something similar there. The folks that have a dog in
this fight are
| > China, South Korea, Japan, etc. Let them police this
one.
| >
| >
|
| Amen.
|
| --
| Dan
|
| "Fiction was invented the day Jonah arrived home and told
his wife
| that he was three days late because he had been swallowed
by a
| whale."
| -Gabriel Garcia Marquez
|
|

[Emily]

Matt Whiting wrote:
<snip>
>
> I think pre-emptively attacking Iran

We attacked Iran? Granted, I haven't watched TV for a few days,but....

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> This is why I'm surprised that we've done nothing -- this is a "clear
> and present danger" and should be dealt with in some way.

you can cry wolf only so many times...

--Sylvain

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>The best thing about President H. Clinton
>>is that only a Democrat will get any cooperation from the rest of the
>>world.
>
>
> I haven't checked lately, but I think Hillary skews more negative with
> most voters than even Bush did at his lowest point.

Hilary has no chance. Zip, zero, nada.

[M[_1_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> - That tiny country (smaller than the state of Mississippi) has an air
> force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274 helicopters!

You know Jay, since neither Petersen or EAA can sell them the autogas
STC due to the U.N. sanction, most of their airforce are kind of
grounded because they can afford the fuel anymore!

[Jay Honeck]

> -------------
> We starved, he called it paradise

My God, that is heart-breaking.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Macklin]

You can only say "get your hand out of the cookie jar" so
many times before your kids loose all respect too.



"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
| Jay Honeck wrote:
| >
| > This is why I'm surprised that we've done nothing --
this is a "clear
| > and present danger" and should be dealt with in some
way.
|
| you can cry wolf only so many times...
|
| --Sylvain

[Jim Macklin]

Thank you and welcome to the world. My father was born in
Nan King in 1904. He left when WWI started. He had many
stories about starvation and Chinese life. Food was in
short supply for everyone. Oldest boys were valued and
girls were not. He told us that during a famine the
youngest girl could go into the pot so the male children
could eat. Today, famine is caused by politics, food can be
and is transported anywhere and it is blocked by politicians
trying to purge or control their people. The English would
not import grain from America when the potato crop failed
and the Irish starved. It still goes on today in Asia and
Africa.

Soylent Green IS people. Its not just for movies, never
was.






"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
| On 15 Oct 2006 17:23:47 -0700, "Jay Honeck"
>
| wrote:
|
| >Since I'm tired of reading questions about the
development of
| >anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought
I'd toss this
| >topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.
|
| I came across this a few days ago. It's from
|
http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Paradise-Hyok-Kang/dp/0316729663
|
| -------------
| We starved, he called it paradise
| Growing up in North Korea, Hyok Kang was surrounded by
desperate
| people who ate grass and bark before they died. Yet
pervasive
| propaganda made them feel lucky to be there.
| ----
|
| The first time I ate chocolate was when I was five years
old. My
| grandfather had relatives in Japan who were given
exceptional
| permission to visit us. They came like extraterrestrials
with their
| arms full of presents and food. I remember waving tins of
condensed
| milk and chocolate bars under my friends.. noses. I was a
horrid
| little boy. It was 1990 and I didn..t yet know what famine
was. I
| wouldn..t taste chocolate again until we escaped to China
when I was
| 13.
|
| In 1994, shortly before the death of Kim Il-sung, the
Great Leader,
| the state food distribution system began to break down.
Eventually,
| there was no more rice, no more potatoes. We moved on to
vile food
| substitutes. Weeds, of whatever kind, were boiled up and
swallowed in
| the form of soup. We picked these inedible leaves on the
edges of the
| fields or the banks of the river. The soup was so bitter
that we could
| barely keep it down.
|
| Our neighbours collected grass and tree bark .. usually
pine, or
| various shrubs. They grated the bark and boiled it up
before eating
| it. And much good it did them: their faces swelled from
day to day
| until they finally perished.
|
| Not only food was scarce. Our teachers gave each of us
collection
| quotas: maize leaves (for paper mills), copper and other
metals ..
| and, during the winter, dung for fertiliser. We had to
take six whole
| carts of faecal matter to the school, and not any old
excrement: it
| had to be human. As it was frozen .. the temperature fell
to -20C or
| -30C .. we used a pick or a hatchet to hack it from the
back of the
| rudimentary outdoor toilets by each dwelling. In extremis,
dog poo was
| tolerated as well.
|
| My mother started selling buns and pancakes in the market.
She was
| shattered by the sight of dozens of ragged urchins (some
of them
| little more than toddlers) avidly watching the customers
as they ate
| their pancakes just in case they accidentally dropped
some. Then they
| would dart forwards to pick up scraps and stuff them into
their
| mouths. Some adults, racked with hunger, beat the children
and stole
| from them.
|
| International food aid began to arrive in Onsong, our
city, near the
| border with China. For a while the children started to get
their
| strength back. But then the cadres reduced the rations.
First the
| children had to make do with soup, then with nothing.
Their faces were
| terribly thin, their cheeks were hollow and their eyes
bulged with
| hunger.
|
| The United Nations must have heard that the aid was not
being
| distributed, because an inspection was organised. The
party cadres,
| who had been alerted in advance, had rice delivered to the
schools
| from state storehouses, which were apparently far from
empty. The
| children were told to tell the UN inspectors that this
diet was
| perfectly normal. On the day of the visit there were all
kinds of
| dishes on the menu: noodles, maize soufflé. Once the UN
team set off
| again, the cadres took back everything, including all the
uneaten food
| from the tables where the children were still sitting.
|
| Hunger engulfed my little universe. The poorest children
lived on
| nothing but grass, and during class their stomachs
rumbled. After a
| few weeks their faces began to swell, making them look
well nourished.
| Then their faces went on growing until they looked as
though they had
| been inflated. Their cheeks were so puffy that they
couldn..t see the
| blackboard. Some of them were covered with impetigo and
flaking skin.
|
| My classmates started dying during the summer of 1996. One
girl spent
| her days by her dying brother..s bedside, going short
herself so that
| he would have more to eat. She died before he did.
|
| As time passed there were fewer and fewer of us sitting at
the school
| desks. Sometimes there were only about 10 in a class of
35. The
| teachers themselves no longer had enough energy to take
their classes.
| They sat shapelessly in their chairs, cane in hand, while
we repeated
| by heart lessons we had already learnt about the
childhoods of Kim
| Il-sung and his son and successor Kim Jong-il, the Dear
Leader.
|
| The famine encouraged the most selfish kinds of behaviour.
My
| grandmother sold soya dishes and soups at home, a little
trade that
| helped her to survive. I remember one father who regularly
came to my
| grandmother..s house in secret to eat his fill far from
the eyes of
| his family. Many parents left their homes in search of
food, and most
| didn..t come back.
|
| People generally died at night, and every morning we
counted five or
| six deaths in our neighbourhood. Most of them were
ordinary people,
| because neither party cadres nor policemen nor
high-ranking military
| officers suffered as a result of the famine. My father
calculated that
| the district where we lived had shrunk from 4,000 to 2,000
| inhabitants.
|
| There were empty houses everywhere. We felt as though we
were living
| in a ghost town. Nonetheless, with my boy..s eyes, I found
it all
| relatively normal. It was all I had ever known, and I
thought that
| things abroad must be pretty much the same, or worse, as
our leaders
| told us, assuring us that North Korea was ..paradise..
compared with
| other states. My belief in Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il
remained
| unshakeable.
|
| The party cadres blamed ..natural disasters.., the US and
South Korea
| for the shortages. My friends and I caught frogs and
cooked them
| skewered on bicycle spokes. We also ate grasshoppers,
which are
| delicious fried, as are dragonflies. Grilled, the flesh of
fat
| dragonflies tastes a bit like pork; but you can eat them
raw, once the
| head and wings have been removed. Sparrows and quails
ended up in the
| pot. We caught them with nets set in wooden frames. Other
birds, like
| crows, we fried on a brazier.
|
| The railway station was a hideout for abandoned children.
The shortage
| of petrol and electricity had reduced the daily rail
service to one
| departure every two weeks. So the station was filled with
people
| waiting for trains that never came. Destitute crowds slept
there night
| and day. Skeletal children wandered through the waiting
room. Some of
| them were very young: I remember kids of one or two who
couldn..t even
| stand upright. They crawled on all fours on the filthy
floor, picking
| up whatever they could with their black fingers.
|
| People gathered for a few minutes around the body of a
child who had
| just died, but lost interest almost immediately. A friend
of my
| father..s was in a unit responsible for their collection
and burial.
| He told us he never rushed to pick up dead children. He
waited until
| at least three had died before collecting their bodies
because that
| way he only had to dig a single grave. He dug rather
shallow graves so
| as not to tire himself, and then laid the little skeletons
in the
| holes, sometimes without so much as a shroud.
|
| By 1997 my school had ceased to function. I ended up
joining the gangs
| of children who stole from the market stalls. I would
distract a
| well-padded person..s attention and then my gang of five
or six would
| jump on them and grab their money. The misfortune of
others, even your
| own family, leaves you completely indifferent when you
have nothing in
| your belly. You rob ruthlessly; you would even kill.
|
| My father worked in the local lignite mine. In the autumn
of 1997 he
| asked the cadres for a change of employment. This was a
legitimate
| request, because he had worked in the mine for more than
15 years, and
| the labour had been very hard. The cadres refused.
Exasperated, my
| father hurled an ashtray through a window, and started
insulting them.
| He ended up breaking all of the cadres.. office windows,
calling them
| fat pigs.
|
| He was summoned to the penal labour colony in Onsong the
following
| week for ..re-education.., but instead he escaped to
China. After
| three months, and after saving some money, he came back to
get me and
| my mother. But he was caught, laden with sausages and
other
| foodstuffs, by border guards who wolfed down the food in
front of him
| and then beat him up. Within days he was in an overcrowded
cell in
| Onsong prison.
|
| Eventually, after contracting typhus from infected lice,
my father was
| granted provisional release on condition that he would go
back to
| prison if he recovered from the illness. Depressed, he hit
the bottle
| and one evening he suddenly started shouting at the top of
his voice:
| ..Kim Jong-il, son of a bitch . . . *******, swine!.. My
mother, in a
| panic, jammed both hands over his mouth. Our house was
under constant
| surveillance from neighbourhood informers, and this sort
of outburst
| could get us all shot.
|
| He made up his mind to smuggle us to China. For more than
a month he
| tried everything he could think of to persuade us, but my
mother
| wasn..t convinced. ..In spite of the shortages,.. she
insisted,
| ..North Korea is without a doubt one of the most
prosperous countries
| in the world!.. I told him I would rather be a beggar in
North Korea
| than follow him to China. I spouted phrases that I had
learnt at
| school: ..Let us safeguard socialism . . . I will fight to
the death
| to protect socialism and the Great Leader Kim Il-sung!..
My father
| went on insulting Kim Jong-il in the worst possible terms.
My mother
| finally yielded. In turn she tried to persuade me, the
confused
| 13-year-old. She said we would spend a year in China, no
more, and we
| would earn money and come back to North Korea.
|
| Reluctantly, I agreed. We made our getaway from home on
March 19,
| 1998, at 4am, because that was the time when my father was
under the
| least amount of surveillance. We had only the clothes on
our backs,
| because even the smallest bundle of clothing would have
looked
| suspicious. Needless to say, we did not return after a
year .. nor
| have we ever.
| ----------------------------
|

[NW_Pilot]

"randall g" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:56:58 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
> > wrote:
>
>>I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
>>how
>>bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
>>said
>>Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
>>Americans hahahahaha...
>
> You must have been hallucinating. Nobody in the government said anything
> of the sort. In fact your President has gone out of his way to praise
> Islam as a peaceful religion, which it most certainly is not.
>
>
>>But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
>>for Myself.
>
> You also make **** up.
>
>
>
>
> randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
> http://www.telemark.net/randallg
> Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
> http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
> Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

Take a look at they changed the travel Warning sine I was there in
September.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:42:03 GMT, "Crash Lander" > wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> >They have suffered 11
> > straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
> > because of outside aid --
>
> Haven't really kept up on this as I know I should, but to me, the foreign
> aid should be the first thing to stop!

Well, you're posting in the wrong language, then. China is still NK's primary
supporter. The recent UN resolution basically eliminates luxury items.

And...nuclear weapons aside...all local nations want to maintain the status quo.
No one wants the repression in North Korea to end. South Korea doesn't want to
have to take care 23 million starving North Koreans nor erect a modern
infrastructure from scratch, nor does China, nor Japan, nor even the US.

You can take a look at:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

....and see what the challenge would be. The country that invades NK is stuck
with moving them out of the 19th Century. The UN will wring its hands, it'll
eventually figure out a way to bribe Kim to supress the nukes, but you won't
find any serious effort to oust Kim and the Party.

Ron Wanttaja

[randall g]

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:29:10 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
> wrote:

>
>"randall g" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:56:58 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
>>>how
>>>bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
>>>said
>>>Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
>>>Americans hahahahaha...
>>
>> You must have been hallucinating. Nobody in the government said anything
>> of the sort. In fact your President has gone out of his way to praise
>> Islam as a peaceful religion, which it most certainly is not.
>>
>>
>>>But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
>>>for Myself.
>>
>> You also make **** up.

>Take a look at they changed the travel Warning sine I was there in
>September.
>
>http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html


Hmm. The CIA beaurocracy points out some fairly obvious potential
dangers and precautions that American travellers should be aware of, and
they would be remiss in their duty not to do so. Where specifically do
you disagree? I don't think they are making a value judgement that
Beruit is a "bad place" or that "Muslims want to kill all Americans"
which are the words you used. As a pilot I think you should be able to
use such information to manage your risk in an appropriate fashion.

Also, like I said, there have been no public statements by higher
officials (such as the President or Secretary of State) that use the
language you ascribed to the government.

No big deal. You have a fairly large dose of paranoia. Everbody in the
universe has that to some extent.




randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

[cjcampbell]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
> anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
> topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.

Well, I am physically a lot closer to North Korea than you guys, and I
refuse to worry about it.

North Korea has had the bomb since the early '90s. The sixth Pakistan
test in 1994 was actually on contract for North Korea and was conducted
almost immediately after the US had extracted an agreement (in return
for a huge amount of tribute) that North Korea would stop developing
nuclear weapons.

So, really, all this is about is North Korea demanding more money to
prop up its totalitarian regime, "or we won't play nice any more."
Actually using a nuke or selling one to a terrorist group to use would
immediately result in the whole of North Korea being reduced to slag,
and they know it. Neither the US nor any other country attacked in this
manner would wait for a UN Security Council resolution. The North
Koreans would be gone, and that would be it.

As for their flight training, it is said to be awful and there are a
lot of accidents.

So far, North Korea has a series of rocket tests, with a very high
failure rate, and one atomic test that fizzled. Sounds to me like the
most North Korea's WMD scientists have to fear is their own government.

[cjcampbell]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Thank you and welcome to the world. My father was born in
> Nan King in 1904. He left when WWI started. He had many
> stories about starvation and Chinese life. Food was in
> short supply for everyone. Oldest boys were valued and
> girls were not. He told us that during a famine the
> youngest girl could go into the pot so the male children
> could eat. Today, famine is caused by politics, food can be
> and is transported anywhere and it is blocked by politicians
> trying to purge or control their people. The English would
> not import grain from America when the potato crop failed
> and the Irish starved. It still goes on today in Asia and
> Africa.
>
> Soylent Green IS people. Its not just for movies, never
> was.

One thing I can say about here in the Philippines, at least, is that
starvation is relatively rare despite the extreme poverty. Practically
every bush and plant here can be eaten. But there are some people who
are starving, even here, and some of it is political. The plight of
some of the minority tribes can be terrible.

Every day when I go into town I am accosted by small children who are
begging. These kids are controlled by gangsters who take every centavo
the kids get and then some. It is terrible. But I am not currently at
liberty to say anything more about it.

[cjcampbell]

NW_Pilot wrote:
>
> I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about how
> bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government said
> Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
> Americans hahahahaha...B.S. Well I walked the streets of Beirut at night for
> a few hours alone, myself a non Muslim on a Muslim holiday and nothing but
> friendly people even the guys with the machine guns have proper muzzle
> control and are friendlier than our police here in the states!!
>
> I suggest that one look and think for themselves and make their own thoughts
> and dismiss all the media/government hype! Yes, the government controls the
> so called free and independent press and are resorting the "Religious" type
> tactics to try and use Fear to control the citizens and rest of the world!

Lots of loons in the northwest.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
> forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests
>

Because "force" has proven to be a very inefficient answer lately, e.g.
in Afghanistan and Iraq?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[kontiki]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> So what should we do? Nothing? That seems to be the United Nation's
> current "strategy"...but I don't see much hope in that approach.

Given sufficient time they will simply implode, like the Soviet Union.
The end will be prolonged as long as they are nurtured and enabled by
China or anyone else.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> > In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't responded more
> > forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests
>
> Because "force" has proven to be a very inefficient answer lately, e.g.
> in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Bribes and appeasement have been complete failures.

So, which is better?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Kevin Clarke]

So the best thing we can do there is to continue to prop up China's
economy by importing damned near everything we use in this country and
export our best jobs to China. Then China can have the chops and
responsibility to deal with NK and we're starting to look like Ireland
mid-1970s. No jobs but plenty of bars!

Grrrr.

Someone said we don't have a dog in this fight. Not sure I entirely
agree with that. We could sure train a dog though. Is it time to take
the shackles off of Japan as a balancing point in the region?

KC

wrote:
> The solution to North Korea is China. North Korea is China's
> Frankenstein monster.
>
> When China decides that the monster has gotten too far out of hand, and
> is a threat to China, North Korea will be squashed like a bug. The
> Chinese could roll through North Korea in less than a week, even if
> North Korea put up a fight.
>
> The only other solution is if North Korea collapses like East Germany
> did, but with China providing aid, that won't happen until China cuts
> them off.
>
> Dean
>

[Stubby]

No, taking out the power plants will turn off septic system pumps.
Typhoid will spread and we'll have an enormous public health problem.
You need to be more selective.



Jim Macklin wrote:
> All 36 airports should have the runways destroyed.
> All power plants and switching stations that send power to
> their nuclear factories should be bombed, you can't produce
> nuke fuel without electricity.
> All naval vessels in their harbors should be sunk.
> All military depots, ammo dumps and warehouses should be
> bombed.
>
>
> On the second day we can offer the Iranians a deal.

[Mike Isaksen]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote...
> ..... China is still NK's primary supporter. The recent UN
> resolution basically eliminates luxury items.

I think this is a good thing. The ruling class in NK should be the ones
targeted. Hunting down and freezing their offshore assets will limit their
options even more and "convince" them to move their positions. The
leadership in NK is living very well "relatively speaking" and presently
have no incentive for change.

China worries about a trickle of illegal immigration turning into a mass
flood.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061016/ap_on_re_as/china_nkorea_fence

In the long run, China might benefit from South Korea reunifying with the
north. That would put a hugh hurt on the South Korean economy (see Germany),
and China could come out the big winner (can you say Marshall Plan).

[Ron Snipes[_1_]]

The first thing I would do is talk to the Chinese. Show them a map. Explain
that you might be "Downwind" of North Korea pretty soon, do you want to do
that? You know, that wind that glows in the dark.
ron



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Kev]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
> anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
> topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.

Oh great. Instead of M's constant questions that are at least on-topic
for this NG, you have to start a huge and typically wasteful political
thread.

That said, I served in Korea in tactical intelligence (read: crossing
the DMZ at times) and they're definitely amongst the most evil people
in the world. Kim is not likely to start an overt war, simply because
he loves his rock & roll too much. But I fear that he would be willing
to sell nukes to Iran and other nasty places. I think we're closer to
WW-III than we have been in over fifteen years.

Back on topic, I recall when the North shot down one of our cargo
copters. There was an officer up in a GA plane along the DMZ, and Army
ATC called him with "Cessna XYZ, land at the nearest airport
immediately!". He replied, "This is Colonel Smith (a security breach,
if I ever heard one), why should I? What's up?"

ATC dropped their voice a note lower and gritted back deeply with
"COLONEL THIS IS A DIRECT ORDER LAND YOUR AIRCRAFT NOW NOW NOW." He
gulped back softly "Roger, understood, landing!". I think he finally
got the picture.

Kevin

[Jim Macklin]

We are using restrained force and granting safe terrorist
havens "because" there might be children hurt.


"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in
message ...
| Jay,
|
| > In pondering why we (the US -- and the World) haven't
responded more
| > forcefully to the North Korean nuclear tests
| >
|
| Because "force" has proven to be a very inefficient answer
lately, e.g.
| in Afghanistan and Iraq?
|
| --
| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
|

[Jim Macklin]

All power plants and switching stations that send power to
> their nuclear factories should be bombed

Note that I considered that. NK is so backward, do they
even have a sewage system?



"Stubby" > wrote in
message . ..
| No, taking out the power plants will turn off septic
system pumps.
| Typhoid will spread and we'll have an enormous public
health problem.
| You need to be more selective.
|
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > All 36 airports should have the runways destroyed.
| > All power plants and switching stations that send power
to
| > their nuclear factories should be bombed, you can't
produce
| > nuke fuel without electricity.
| > All naval vessels in their harbors should be sunk.
| > All military depots, ammo dumps and warehouses should be
| > bombed.
| >
| >
| > On the second day we can offer the Iranians a deal.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:18:22 +0000, randall g wrote:

> You can trust atheists to not want
> to die

There was an interesting OpEd piece in the Oct 12 NYTimes. It claims that
N. Korea should not be properly viewed as "Stalinist" (ie. the "atheist"
designation is incorrect).

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/opinion/12myers.html

...

This sort of cultural profiling, however, can get us into real danger.
Japan’s emperor during World War II, Hirohito, was neither religious
nor suicidal, and he led his nation into a war that no rational leader
could have hoped to win. The point is relevant, because although
journalists persist in calling North Korea a Stalinist state, its
worldview is far closer to that of fascist Japan.

...

I cannot speak to the accuracy of the piece, but it was interesting
reading.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:05:51 -0700, Andrew Sarangan wrote:

> They might have a large combat force, but no way then can stand up to our
> air and ground capability.

I don't believe it is that simple. They've some incredibly large number
of artillery pieces pointed at S. Korea. That is how N. Korea would
respond to any attack, which is why S. Korea has been wasting so much time
trying to deal.

Effectively, they're hostages.

Similarly, as someone else here pointed out, China is more afraid of
refugees from N. Korea than anything else. At least at the moment,
they've no reason to fear being the target of Kim Jong-il weapons.

[Though personally, I'd worry about where he might point them in the
future were I in China's place.]

- Andrew

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> -------------
>> We starved, he called it paradise
>
> My God, that is heart-breaking.

Well, as NYTimes ComSymp William Duranty said, "You've got to break some
eggs if you want to make an omelet".

[Dan Luke]

"Andrew Gideon" wrote:

> Japan's emperor during World War II, Hirohito, was neither religious
> nor suicidal, and he led his nation into a war that no rational leader
> could have hoped to win.

Whether Hirohito did much leading except as a figurehead is debatable. The
military fascists--Tojo in particular--pretty much had their way with him.

I agree that the N. Korean regime is only nominally Stalinist. Ideology is
not something they care about, and neither did Stalin, really. He purged all
the commie true believers and replaced them with his henchmen and toadies,
just as the Kims have done in N. Korea.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Ron Snipes" > wrote in message
.. .
> The first thing I would do is talk to the Chinese. Show them a map. Explain
> that you might be "Downwind" of North Korea pretty soon, do you want to do
> that? You know, that wind that glows in the dark.
> ron

You presume that the Chinese leadership gives a crap if a couple million of
their citizens are affected by nuclear fallout. It takes a lot more than
that to scare them.

The Beijing cabal may be smarter than Kim Jong Il, but they take a back seat
to no one in their cynical disregard for anything that does not line their
pockets or further their ambitions in the region.

They are working this crisis for all it's worth to turn it to their
advantage. Look for them to try to get some kind of diplomatic concessions
in exchange for bringing pressure on N. Korea. If I were the Taiwanese, I'd
be sweating.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[NW_Pilot]

"cjcampbell" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> NW_Pilot wrote:
>>
>> I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
>> how
>> bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
>> said
>> Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
>> Americans hahahahaha...B.S. Well I walked the streets of Beirut at night
>> for
>> a few hours alone, myself a non Muslim on a Muslim holiday and nothing
>> but
>> friendly people even the guys with the machine guns have proper muzzle
>> control and are friendlier than our police here in the states!!
>>
>> I suggest that one look and think for themselves and make their own
>> thoughts
>> and dismiss all the media/government hype! Yes, the government controls
>> the
>> so called free and independent press and are resorting the "Religious"
>> type
>> tactics to try and use Fear to control the citizens and rest of the
>> world!
>
> Lots of loons in the northwest.


Yep, there are a lot of us loons here :-)
>

[.Blueskies.]

Bush picked the wrong war...

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> When did we attack Iran?
> Attacking Iraq got Libya to surrender several ship loads of
> nuke weapons materials to the USA. It is better to strike
> preemptively than to wait till they can put up a "fair
> fight" the object is victory and not stalemate.

Haven't you been watching CNN? :-)

In that case, we should be attacking Venezuala, Russia, China, Iran,
Syria, which one's did I forget?


Matt

[Grumman-581[_4_]]

On Oct 16, 1:32 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> If I were the Taiwanese, I'd be sweating.

They're busy having fun with a political scandal right now...

[Jim Macklin]

Bush didn't pick the war, it was forced on him. Glad we
have a Commander in Chief and not a wimp.



".Blueskies." > wrote in
message
. net...
| Bush picked the wrong war...
|
|

[cjcampbell]

NW_Pilot wrote:
> "cjcampbell" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > NW_Pilot wrote:
> >>
> >> I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
> >> how
> >> bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
> >> said
> >> Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
> >> Americans hahahahaha...B.S. Well I walked the streets of Beirut at night
> >> for
> >> a few hours alone, myself a non Muslim on a Muslim holiday and nothing
> >> but
> >> friendly people even the guys with the machine guns have proper muzzle
> >> control and are friendlier than our police here in the states!!
> >>
> >> I suggest that one look and think for themselves and make their own
> >> thoughts
> >> and dismiss all the media/government hype! Yes, the government controls
> >> the
> >> so called free and independent press and are resorting the "Religious"
> >> type
> >> tactics to try and use Fear to control the citizens and rest of the
> >> world!
> >
> > Lots of loons in the northwest.
>
>
> Yep, there are a lot of us loons here :-)

I guess that makes us charter members of the Puget Sound Loons. Even if
that does mean that all Dawgs and Cougs are loons.

> >

[Jim Macklin]

The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to get a
reputation.
The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
won't take casualties. OBL has said so.

We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria will
take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is coming
from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only way
to win is to either fight a big war with those two terrorist
nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they will be
unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling is OK
with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel don't
matter.

So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their runways,
all their operational military airplanes, their ammo dumps
and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
capable of defending their border at the 38th.

Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their borders
and we win.

Or we can continue to do what we are doing, waiting until
they do develop WMD/nukes and then we get what they want,
destruction of the world so their "leader" can rise from the
dead/well.

Only the fanatics in the Middle East matter, the others are
all businessmen now.



"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > When did we attack Iran?
| > Attacking Iraq got Libya to surrender several ship loads
of
| > nuke weapons materials to the USA. It is better to
strike
| > preemptively than to wait till they can put up a "fair
| > fight" the object is victory and not stalemate.
|
| Haven't you been watching CNN? :-)
|
| In that case, we should be attacking Venezuala, Russia,
China, Iran,
| Syria, which one's did I forget?
|
|
| Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to get a
> reputation.
> The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
> won't take casualties. OBL has said so.
>
> We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria will
> take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is coming
> from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only way
> to win is to either fight a big war with those two terrorist
> nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they will be
> unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling is OK
> with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel don't
> matter.
>
> So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their runways,
> all their operational military airplanes, their ammo dumps
> and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
> plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
> conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
> capable of defending their border at the 38th.
>
> Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their borders
> and we win.

You aren't this naive in real life are you? Christians and Muslims have
been fighting in the middle east for millenia. You think we're going to
put that all to rest in a few weeks by bombing NK to smitherens? That
is too funny.


Matt

[Jay Beckman]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Macklin wrote:
>> The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to get a reputation.
>> The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that won't take
>> casualties. OBL has said so.
>>
>> We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria will take notice.
>> Since most of our trouble in Iraq is coming from Syria and Iran, not
>> local Iraqi citizens, the only way to win is to either fight a big war
>> with those two terrorist nations OR slap NK down with enough force that
>> they will be unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling is OK
>> with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel don't matter.
>>
>> So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their runways, all their
>> operational military airplanes, their ammo dumps and power plants that
>> supply military bases and nuclear plants. That could all be done in a
>> week-end with conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
>> capable of defending their border at the 38th.
>>
>> Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their borders and we win.
>
> You aren't this naive in real life are you? Christians and Muslims have
> been fighting in the middle east for millenia.

1.384 Millenia (Give Or Take...)

Jay B

[Jay Honeck]

> Given sufficient time they will simply implode, like the Soviet Union.
> The end will be prolonged as long as they are nurtured and enabled by
> China or anyone else.

You're assuming that the Koreans will go out with a wimper, like the
Soviets.

That's a pretty big gamble.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Macklin]

No, just a few days. NK is an easy target for B2 and B1
with JDAM and ALCM from B52s. We also have the F117. They
have few targets, we have lots of tactical fighters to
support the RoC army along the 37th parallel. They have
"stepped across" the line and re-opened the war that has
been on "hold" since 1953.

Iran and Syria are fighting episode 1,000 in the Crusades
and it is for their old Muslim religion, their power in
Europe and to make the whole world into their image. They
do not believe that the west has the balls to actually fight
and win. They are willing to win in baby steps. We bluster
and impose sanctions.

Why do they care.

Solve the NK problem while it is an easy military problem
and won't require we use out nukes and will prevent them
from ever using nukes.

Then when we tell IRAN that they are going too far and need
to comply, we won't need to nuke them either. But if they
are still not sure, we shock and awe with 98% conventional
and one megaton on something forty miles from Tehran at
midnight, maybe a powerplant or a military base.

Syria will do what Libya did, tuck their heads and
surrender.

It might bring peace for 100 years and during that time,
education and a good life will alter the Muslim doctrine so
they will become a peaceful religion.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and if only 1%
are evil, vicious baby killers, it is a big army. Many
surveys have put the number at over 10% or 150 million
potential suicide bombers, terrorists and supporters. Let's
wait a decade so it can be a "fair fight" and they have a
chance to destroy the western world and the USA.

NOT


"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to
get a
| > reputation.
| > The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
| > won't take casualties. OBL has said so.
| >
| > We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria
will
| > take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is
coming
| > from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only
way
| > to win is to either fight a big war with those two
terrorist
| > nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they will
be
| > unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling
is OK
| > with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel
don't
| > matter.
| >
| > So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their
runways,
| > all their operational military airplanes, their ammo
dumps
| > and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
| > plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
| > conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
| > capable of defending their border at the 38th.
| >
| > Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their
borders
| > and we win.
|
| You aren't this naive in real life are you? Christians
and Muslims have
| been fighting in the middle east for millenia. You think
we're going to
| put that all to rest in a few weeks by bombing NK to
smitherens? That
| is too funny.
|
|
| Matt

[Dan Luke]

"Grumman-581" wrote:


>> If I were the Taiwanese, I'd be sweating.
>
> They're busy having fun with a political scandal right now...


Aren't they always?

[Jim Macklin]

Starving people are a mob. That's why the rescue helicopter
hover 50 feet up and drop food. A starving country might do
anything. Remember this guy kidnaps under-age teenage girls
all over the world to be HIS sex slaves.

We can prevent them from ever being able to nuke Seattle or
Portland, but they can get satisfaction from killing a
million Americans. We can do out thing to them as I have
described with just enough dead that they will "think again,
maybe the official residences" of the child rapist.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|> Given sufficient time they will simply implode, like the
Soviet Union.
| > The end will be prolonged as long as they are nurtured
and enabled by
| > China or anyone else.
|
| You're assuming that the Koreans will go out with a
wimper, like the
| Soviets.
|
| That's a pretty big gamble.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[Jim Macklin]

38
"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:bxWYg.5033$XX2.407@dukeread04...
| No, just a few days. NK is an easy target for B2 and B1
| with JDAM and ALCM from B52s. We also have the F117.
They
| have few targets, we have lots of tactical fighters to
| support the RoC army along the 37th parallel. They have
| "stepped across" the line and re-opened the war that has
| been on "hold" since 1953.
|
| Iran and Syria are fighting episode 1,000 in the Crusades
| and it is for their old Muslim religion, their power in
| Europe and to make the whole world into their image. They
| do not believe that the west has the balls to actually
fight
| and win. They are willing to win in baby steps. We
bluster
| and impose sanctions.
|
| Why do they care.
|
| Solve the NK problem while it is an easy military problem
| and won't require we use out nukes and will prevent them
| from ever using nukes.
|
| Then when we tell IRAN that they are going too far and
need
| to comply, we won't need to nuke them either. But if they
| are still not sure, we shock and awe with 98% conventional
| and one megaton on something forty miles from Tehran at
| midnight, maybe a powerplant or a military base.
|
| Syria will do what Libya did, tuck their heads and
| surrender.
|
| It might bring peace for 100 years and during that time,
| education and a good life will alter the Muslim doctrine
so
| they will become a peaceful religion.
|
| There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and if only 1%
| are evil, vicious baby killers, it is a big army. Many
| surveys have put the number at over 10% or 150 million
| potential suicide bombers, terrorists and supporters.
Let's
| wait a decade so it can be a "fair fight" and they have a
| chance to destroy the western world and the USA.
|
| NOT
|
|
| "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
| ...
|| Jim Macklin wrote:
|| > The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to
| get a
|| > reputation.
|| > The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
|| > won't take casualties. OBL has said so.
|| >
|| > We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria
| will
|| > take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is
| coming
|| > from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only
| way
|| > to win is to either fight a big war with those two
| terrorist
|| > nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they
will
| be
|| > unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling
| is OK
|| > with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel
| don't
|| > matter.
|| >
|| > So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their
| runways,
|| > all their operational military airplanes, their ammo
| dumps
|| > and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
|| > plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
|| > conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are
perfectly
|| > capable of defending their border at the 38th.
|| >
|| > Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their
| borders
|| > and we win.
||
|| You aren't this naive in real life are you? Christians
| and Muslims have
|| been fighting in the middle east for millenia. You think
| we're going to
|| put that all to rest in a few weeks by bombing NK to
| smitherens? That
|| is too funny.
||
||
|| Matt
|
|

[Jim Macklin]

WE don't need nukes, we have JDAM


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:38:05 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >We are using restrained force and granting safe terrorist
| >havens "because" there might be children hurt.
|
| The best thing we could do for the children of the DPRK is
nuke
| P'yongyang. It would kill a few thousand children and
save a few
| million.

[Jim Macklin]

We'd be doing the world a favor.



"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:40:14 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >All power plants and switching stations that send power
to
| >> their nuclear factories should be bombed
| >
| >Note that I considered that. NK is so backward, do they
| >even have a sewage system?
|
| Seems unlikely, since they don't have any electricity at
all between
| 9pm and 6am.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this group by
starting this thread. It must be the worst ever. I've never seen such
immoral, casual discussion of killing tens of thousands of people. For
me, this is a thousand times worse than all the stuff MSXMANIC did. I
can't possibly eat enough for how much the responses in this thread
make me want to puke.

OTOH, the upside might be that the true morons of this group really
come out of their hiding.

In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing the group down
even further in a time where it is at an alltime low already - NOT.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jim Macklin]

I guess some people feel it is better that millions die
here, that a handful over-there. I'm not suggesting that we
start killing willy-nilly. But if the world had stood up to
Hitler in 1937, perhaps WWII and 50-100 million people would
not have died.



"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in
message ...
| Jay,
|
| I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this
group by
| starting this thread. It must be the worst ever. I've
never seen such
| immoral, casual discussion of killing tens of thousands of
people. For
| me, this is a thousand times worse than all the stuff
MSXMANIC did. I
| can't possibly eat enough for how much the responses in
this thread
| make me want to puke.
|
| OTOH, the upside might be that the true morons of this
group really
| come out of their hiding.
|
| In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing
the group down
| even further in a time where it is at an alltime low
already - NOT.
|
| --
| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
|

[Jay Honeck]

> I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this group by
> starting this thread. It must be the worst ever.

Yep -- I find it far more interesting than reading about why the yokes
on my plane turn. Your mileage may vary.

> In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing the group down
> even further in a time where it is at an alltime low already - NOT.

If a thread about the North Korean air force and their nuclear bomb(s)
"forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of it to begin
with.

Personally, I'd like to see some expert commentary on the NK bomb.
Does anyone wish to speculate as to whether it will fit inside any of
their aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article om>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Personally, I'd like to see some expert commentary on the NK bomb.
> Does anyone wish to speculate as to whether it will fit inside any of
> their aircraft?

I would expect that the people who really know something about
any NK nukes wouldn't be allowed to say anything in an open forum.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:yMWYg.5037$XX2.383@dukeread04...
> Remember this guy kidnaps under-age teenage girls
> all over the world to be HIS sex slaves.

Have you seen the guy. If he didn't he'd never get laid.

[Kev]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this group by
> > starting this thread. It must be the worst ever.
>
> Yep -- I find it far more interesting than reading about why the yokes
> on my plane turn. Your mileage may vary.

At least the yoke question was on topic (for r.a.s. anyway), and
actually of use to non-pilots.

> > In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing the group down
> > even further in a time where it is at an alltime low already - NOT.
>
> If a thread about the North Korean air force and their nuclear bomb(s)
> "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of it to begin
> with.

That's a pretty self-centered answer. You need to get out on the 'net
more.

Your profile shows that this is the only place you seem to have friends
on the 'net. At least, it's the major place you post. So it's
understandable that over time you'd think any topic is okay, even if it
has little to do with flying, and therefore is useless to the majority
of readers.

You often see people like yourself in groups nowadays... it's part of
the ongoing destruction of usenet. Please join a chat room somewhere
if you want to just yak.

> Personally, I'd like to see some expert commentary on the NK bomb.
> Does anyone wish to speculate as to whether it will fit inside any of
> their aircraft?

Really, this is a topic for a military group. It has nothing to do
with piloting. You're actually making mxmanic look good, Sheesh.

Kev

[Jim Macklin]

The reports are that the NK bomb was less than 1 Kiloton.
This means it was either a dud or a very sophisticated bomb.
The US 1st generation bombs weighted several tons and had a
power level of something between 10 and 25 Kilotons. That
was what we built because building a smaller bomb was harder
to do.

We didn't have the small bombs until 1955, ten years after
we had first built THE BOMB.

How big are their aircraft? If they can threaten Japan,
RoC, Alaska, perhaps with a submarine carried atomic mine,
does it matter whether they have a small size bomb.
Submarines can enter harbors, such as Los Angeles, Long
Beach, Portland or Seattle.

How many women are murdered by a person known to them and
for whom they have restraining order? In international
politics, restraining orders are called sanctions.




--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|> I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this
group by
| > starting this thread. It must be the worst ever.
|
| Yep -- I find it far more interesting than reading about
why the yokes
| on my plane turn. Your mileage may vary.
|
| > In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing
the group down
| > even further in a time where it is at an alltime low
already - NOT.
|
| If a thread about the North Korean air force and their
nuclear bomb(s)
| "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of
it to begin
| with.
|
| Personally, I'd like to see some expert commentary on the
NK bomb.
| Does anyone wish to speculate as to whether it will fit
inside any of
| their aircraft?
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[Jim Macklin]

Ugly people should just take things into their own hands, so
to speak. Kidnapping girls is over the edge.

Do you care if he gets laid?




"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:yMWYg.5037$XX2.383@dukeread04...
| > Remember this guy kidnaps under-age teenage girls
| > all over the world to be HIS sex slaves.
|
| Have you seen the guy. If he didn't he'd never get laid.
|
|

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> If a thread about the North Korean air force and their nuclear bomb(s)
> "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of it to begin
> with.
>

Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I expected
something like that from you.

You and your self-righteous red-neck friends, especially Macklin, now
starting the war-mongering again make me sick. You're all that's wrong
with the US these days condensed in a few people. Too bad that the
percentage of your type is so high in the US pilot population. It
poisons GA.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jim Macklin]

We've been at war with NK for 56 years, have troops
stationed there, I'm sure we have every target located.



"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:07:20 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >WE don't need nukes, we have JDAM
|
| Not sure if we have the targeting infor for effective JDAM
use.
|
| In a perfect world (which I don't think we're in) we and
China would
| have quietly come to a meeting of the minds. China would
continue to
| be an impediment to sanctions to retain Kim's trust. The
next time
| Kim takes his special train into China for medical
treatment he's
| taken prisoner. China rolls in slowly from the north
while
| broadcasting Kim's order to surrender. The South
evacuates Soul but
| doesn't invade. The US offers a buy out to the rest of
the eliets
| (the ones currently buying homes in China) - money and
safety for
| leaving.
|
| But it all depends on China. I don't think they're
willing to give up
| their surrogate, they like having Kim around to poke the
US every
| couple of years.
|
| Popular Mechanics has a terrific article (they've been
doing that a
| lot, lately) about how much farther along the DPRK is on
bio and chem
| weapons than they are on nukes.

[Jim Macklin]

Should the USA wait until a nuke, crude or not, goes off in
LA or Portland, should we wait until Seoul or Tokyo glow in
the dark?



"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
|
| > All 36 airports should have the runways destroyed.
| > All power plants and switching stations that send power
to
| > their nuclear factories should be bombed, you can't
produce
| > nuke fuel without electricity.
| > All naval vessels in their harbors should be sunk.
| > All military depots, ammo dumps and warehouses should be
| > bombed.
|
| what gives you the right?
|
| ah well, this was a theoretical question.
|
| #m
| --
| Arabic T-shirt sparks airport row
| <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5297822.stm>
|
| I Am Not A Terrorist
<http://itsnotallbad.com/iamnotaterrorist/>

[Jim Macklin]

Bush has done many things wrong IMHO. He has failed to veto
some really bad laws. He has not really closed the Mexican
border. But he has taken the steps needed to fight Muslim
terrorists.


"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
|
| > Bush didn't pick the war, it was forced on him. Glad we
| > have a Commander in Chief and not a wimp.
|
|
| yeah :-)
| God talked to him and forced him to do it. ROTFL
|
|
| God has once talked using a bush. But then it was burning
.... what a nice
| concept ... *g*
|
|
| #m
| --
| Arabic T-shirt sparks airport row
| <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5297822.stm>
|
| I Am Not A Terrorist
<http://itsnotallbad.com/iamnotaterrorist/>

[Jim Macklin]

Thanks, can I use you for a job referral at the National War
College or Wal*Mart?



"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in
message ...
| Jay,
|
| > If a thread about the North Korean air force and their
nuclear bomb(s)
| > "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part
of it to begin
| > with.
| >
|
| Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I
expected
| something like that from you.
|
| You and your self-righteous red-neck friends, especially
Macklin, now
| starting the war-mongering again make me sick. You're all
that's wrong
| with the US these days condensed in a few people. Too bad
that the
| percentage of your type is so high in the US pilot
population. It
| poisons GA.
|
| --
| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
|

[Jim Macklin]

Maybe I should contact Jeff Foxworthy, being concerned about
OUR national security is a new, "You might be a Red-neck if,
"



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:yd8Zg.6964$XX2.2889@dukeread04...
| Thanks, can I use you for a job referral at the National
War
| College or Wal*Mart?
|
|
|
| "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in
| message ...
|| Jay,
||
|| > If a thread about the North Korean air force and their
| nuclear bomb(s)
|| > "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part
| of it to begin
|| > with.
|| >
||
|| Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I
| expected
|| something like that from you.
||
|| You and your self-righteous red-neck friends, especially
| Macklin, now
|| starting the war-mongering again make me sick. You're all
| that's wrong
|| with the US these days condensed in a few people. Too bad
| that the
|| percentage of your type is so high in the US pilot
| population. It
|| poisons GA.
||
|| --
|| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
||
|
|

[Jay Honeck]

> > If a thread about the North Korean air force and their nuclear bomb(s)
> > "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of it to begin
> > with.
>
> Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I expected
> something like that from you.

Hey -- you're the one whining about leaving the group -- not me. I own
nothing here -- and I would NEVER presume to dictate what aviation
topics you should discuss here. For you to do so is arrogance of the
highest order -- but it's what we've all come to expect from you.

Furthermore, I don't find MXMANIAC's posts to be troublesome in the
least, unlike some of the more sanctimonious members of this group.
For people to be expending energy trying to ostracize the guy is, IMHO,
silly and wrong.

I do, however, find his posts to be boring. I therefore avoid them --
as I would suggest you avoid this thread, since you find it so
abhorrent.

> You and your self-righteous red-neck friends, especially Macklin, now
> starting the war-mongering again make me sick. You're all that's wrong
> with the US these days condensed in a few people. Too bad that the
> percentage of your type is so high in the US pilot population. It
> poisons GA.

With regards to North Korea, I haven't advocated doing anything -- I've
only asked the question of what we SHOULD do, especially with regard to
air power. (AKA: "Piloting") I *do* find our lack of action surprising,
given the magnitude of the event, but I fully understand the restraint
the US has shown thus far. It's a real can of worms, and there are no
easy solutions.

BTW: I disagree with much of Mr. Macklin's proposed solution(s) to the
North Korea problem -- but I would fight to the death for his right to
state them. This is called "Freedom of Speech", a basic right with
which you are apparently unfamiliar. It's something we Americans have
by birthright, thanks to our forefathers being willing to confront --
and defeat -- tyrants and demagogues like Kim Jong Il.

Thomas, I know you've grown up in a different, more cocooned reality,
so I'm prepared to forgive your ignorance of how the world really works
-- after all, never having to carry your weight in world affairs must
surely do that to a people -- but please refrain from "correcting"
those of us who live in the country that is directly responsible for
your cushy free ride.

It's unbecoming.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> > If a thread about the North Korean air force and their nuclear bomb(s)
>> > "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part of it to begin
>> > with.
>>
>> Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I expected
>> something like that from you.

<Snip>

Very, very well said...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Matt Whiting]

Martin Hotze wrote:

> "Jim Macklin" > wrote:
>
>
>>Bush didn't pick the war, it was forced on him. Glad we
>>have a Commander in Chief and not a wimp.
>
>
>
> yeah :-)
> God talked to him and forced him to do it. ROTFL
>
>
> God has once talked using a bush. But then it was burning ... what a nice
> concept ... *g*

Are you this stupid in real life or just on usenet?

Matt

[Jim Macklin]

There is a technique in debates and police
interrogations---good cop-bad cop or Devil's advocate. I
may not actually suggest with a 100% personal conviction all
that I say on these groups. It is up to the reader to
consider and decide if what I say has merit.
In any case, effective action is what is needed in DC. It
is like flying a twin with 4 fuel tanks, plus tip tanks
STC'd. The 20 gallon mains and the 40 gallon aux tanks,
plus the 15 gallon tips add up to 150 gallons. But you have
to burn the mains down to less than 1/2 before you switch to
the aux tanks, because the fuel return is only to the mains.
You have to run the aux fuel for 1 hour and then go back to
the mains for an hour to make room for more return fuel.
Then you run the aux an hour and go back to the mains and
also turn the tip transfer pump on which sends fuel to the
aux.

You also must use the aux tanks only in straight and level
flight and all take-offs and landings are to be on the
mains. And then there is cross-feed.

Maybe international policy isn't that hard to do, see
airplane talk.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|> > If a thread about the North Korean air force and their
nuclear bomb(s)
| > > "forces" you to leave the group, you were never a part
of it to begin
| > > with.
| >
| > Thanks. for pointing that out. As if you owned it. But I
expected
| > something like that from you.
|
| Hey -- you're the one whining about leaving the group --
not me. I own
| nothing here -- and I would NEVER presume to dictate what
aviation
| topics you should discuss here. For you to do so is
arrogance of the
| highest order -- but it's what we've all come to expect
from you.
|
| Furthermore, I don't find MXMANIAC's posts to be
troublesome in the
| least, unlike some of the more sanctimonious members of
this group.
| For people to be expending energy trying to ostracize the
guy is, IMHO,
| silly and wrong.
|
| I do, however, find his posts to be boring. I therefore
avoid them --
| as I would suggest you avoid this thread, since you find
it so
| abhorrent.
|
| > You and your self-righteous red-neck friends, especially
Macklin, now
| > starting the war-mongering again make me sick. You're
all that's wrong
| > with the US these days condensed in a few people. Too
bad that the
| > percentage of your type is so high in the US pilot
population. It
| > poisons GA.
|
| With regards to North Korea, I haven't advocated doing
anything -- I've
| only asked the question of what we SHOULD do, especially
with regard to
| air power. (AKA: "Piloting") I *do* find our lack of
action surprising,
| given the magnitude of the event, but I fully understand
the restraint
| the US has shown thus far. It's a real can of worms, and
there are no
| easy solutions.
|
| BTW: I disagree with much of Mr. Macklin's proposed
solution(s) to the
| North Korea problem -- but I would fight to the death for
his right to
| state them. This is called "Freedom of Speech", a basic
right with
| which you are apparently unfamiliar. It's something we
Americans have
| by birthright, thanks to our forefathers being willing to
confront --
| and defeat -- tyrants and demagogues like Kim Jong Il.
|
| Thomas, I know you've grown up in a different, more
cocooned reality,
| so I'm prepared to forgive your ignorance of how the world
really works
| -- after all, never having to carry your weight in world
affairs must
| surely do that to a people -- but please refrain from
"correcting"
| those of us who live in the country that is directly
responsible for
| your cushy free ride.
|
| It's unbecoming.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[.Blueskies.]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message news:YtVYg.5025$XX2.3034@dukeread04...
: The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to get a
: reputation.
: The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
: won't take casualties. OBL has said so.
:
: We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria will
: take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is coming
: from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only way
: to win is to either fight a big war with those two terrorist
: nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they will be
: unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling is OK
: with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel don't
: matter.
:
: So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their runways,
: all their operational military airplanes, their ammo dumps
: and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
: plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
: conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
: capable of defending their border at the 38th.
:
: Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their borders
: and we win.
:
: Or we can continue to do what we are doing, waiting until
: they do develop WMD/nukes and then we get what they want,
: destruction of the world so their "leader" can rise from the
: dead/well.
:
: Only the fanatics in the Middle East matter, the others are
: all businessmen now.
:
:


Yea, and let's reinstate the draft so we have enough bodies to throw into this action. We need to occupy the land and
lock it down...

[.Blueskies.]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message ups.com...
:> I hope you're happy with what you have brought to this group by
: > starting this thread. It must be the worst ever.
:
: Yep -- I find it far more interesting than reading about why the yokes
: on my plane turn. Your mileage may vary.
:


There are newsgroups for these kinds of discussions...go there.

Discussions about why yokes turn on a plane belong here.

This thread is drivel and you know it belong in one of the alt.politics groups.

[Jim Macklin]

Why do we need to have a draft, to be sure that we have a
dysfunctional army? Why do we need to occupy Iran or Syria?
Once we, the USA, assert our power, thee will be plenty of
nations wanting to join in, even France and Spain will
discover their choice is either become totally unimportant
to the world or a partner.


".Blueskies." > wrote in
message .. .
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:YtVYg.5025$XX2.3034@dukeread04...
| : The Fonz told Ritchie, "you've got to hit somebody" to
get a
| : reputation.
| : The USA reputation is that we are a bunch of wimps that
| : won't take casualties. OBL has said so.
| :
| : We need to "hit" somebody and then maybe IRAN and Syria
will
| : take notice. Since most of our trouble in Iraq is
coming
| : from Syria and Iran, not local Iraqi citizens, the only
way
| : to win is to either fight a big war with those two
terrorist
| : nations OR slap NK down with enough force that they will
be
| : unable to fire on the RoC. We know that some shelling
is OK
| : with the liberals because Hezba rockets into Israel
don't
| : matter.
| :
| : So we sink most of the NK Navy, destroy all their
runways,
| : all their operational military airplanes, their ammo
dumps
| : and power plants that supply military bases and nuclear
| : plants. That could all be done in a week-end with
| : conventional weapons. The RoC Army and AF are perfectly
| : capable of defending their border at the 38th.
| :
| : Then we tell Iran and Syria to surrender, open their
borders
| : and we win.
| :
| : Or we can continue to do what we are doing, waiting
until
| : they do develop WMD/nukes and then we get what they
want,
| : destruction of the world so their "leader" can rise from
the
| : dead/well.
| :
| : Only the fanatics in the Middle East matter, the others
are
| : all businessmen now.
| :
| :
|
|
| Yea, and let's reinstate the draft so we have enough
bodies to throw into this action. We need to occupy the land
and
| lock it down...
|
|

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> In any case, I'm almost out of here. Thanks for bringing the group down
> even further in a time where it is at an alltime low already - NOT.

Try not to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> Have you seen the guy. If he didn't he'd never get laid.

Awh 'ell... Bill Clinton even got laid -- that proves that *anyone* has a
chance...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

".Blueskies." > wrote in message
.. .
> Yea, and let's reinstate the draft so we have
> enough bodies to throw into this action.

Reinstating the draft might not be a bad idea... I did my time in the
military and I believe that it makes a better person out of you...

> We need to occupy the land and
> lock it down...

Nawh, if you nuke the entire country and kill everyone, you really don't
need to occupy it afterwards...

[[email protected]]

> > Thomas, I know you've grown up in a different, more cocooned reality,
> > so I'm prepared to forgive your ignorance of how the world really works
>
> Ah. And YOU know how the world works? Do you even have a passport and have
> you ever used it?
> Your knowledge is based on your minor [1] in history, eh?

Yes, yes, and yes.

When one lives and is an active economic and political participant in
the most powerful country on earth -- the most powerful country the
world has ever known -- it behooves one to read, experience, and
comprehend how the world works.

Don't take this personally, because it's not meant that way, but when
you live in a post-war, second-rate welfare state, as you and Thomas
do, there is simply no way for you read, experience or comprehend how
the world really works -- because you're living in a cocooned
cradle-to-grave existence that simply does not work (and cannot exist)
WITHOUT the United States taxpayer paying for your defense, both now
and in the past.

Do the math.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> Yes, yes, and yes.

Who is JOE Honeck? Jay's evil sock puppet twin?

--
Peter

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> > wrote:
>
>> Yes, yes, and yes.
>
> Who is JOE Honeck? Jay's evil sock puppet twin?

I suspect that Jay posted without changing identities to his own name. Joe is
Jay's son.
--
Jim in NC

[Peter R.]

Morgans > wrote:

> I suspect that Jay posted without changing identities to his own name. Joe is
> Jay's son.

LOL! I thought someone was pretending to be Jay...

--
Peter

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Of course they shouldn't but it shouldn't surprise you that one that has
what is effectively total control of a little over 12 million people would
do so.


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:de6Zg.6120$XX2.2690@dukeread04...
> Ugly people should just take things into their own hands, so
> to speak. Kidnapping girls is over the edge.
>
> Do you care if he gets laid?
>
>
>
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | "Jim Macklin" > wrote
> in message
> | news:yMWYg.5037$XX2.383@dukeread04...
> | > Remember this guy kidnaps under-age teenage girls
> | > all over the world to be HIS sex slaves.
> |
> | Have you seen the guy. If he didn't he'd never get laid.
> |
> |
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> LOL! I thought someone was pretending to be Jay...

Nope -- I was pretending to be Joe!

:-)

Danged computers. Now that my son is into everything, I forgot I can't
just jump on his computer and use it like my own anymore...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"