Does a Cessna 152 have an afterburner?

[[email protected]]

When I eat chili beans and fly one in MSFS, it sure seems too! :)

[Dudley Henriques]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> When I eat chili beans and fly one in MSFS, it sure seems too! :)


Along these same lines, might I suggest you also refrain from wearing roller
skates when eating this stuff :-))
Dudley Henriques

[[email protected]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > When I eat chili beans and fly one in MSFS, it sure seems too! :)
>
>
> Along these same lines, might I suggest you also refrain from wearing roller
> skates when eating this stuff :-))
> Dudley Henriques

Hey, that sounds like fun! At least for the one on the rollerskates.
Can't say the same for the downwinders...

Dean

[Ben Hallert]

I once (quite stupidly) shut off the engine using the ignition instead
of leaning it out (follow checklists, follow checklists). The fuel
rich situation resulted in a memorable (and visual) backfire.
Thankfully there was no apparent damage. That's as close to
afterburners in a 152 as I've seen.

[Jim Macklin]

You must have turned the key back on. It is a good practice
to check the P lead grounding on a regular basis by turning
the key off at IDLE to be sure the mags can be killed. Then
turn the key back on before the engine slow too much, no
harm will be done. There is an AD that requires just this
test, BTW.
Then shutdown with the mixture to clear the cylinders so it
is less likely to start accidentally is the P lead/switch is
disconnected.


"Ben Hallert" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|I once (quite stupidly) shut off the engine using the
ignition instead
| of leaning it out (follow checklists, follow checklists).
The fuel
| rich situation resulted in a memorable (and visual)
backfire.
| Thankfully there was no apparent damage. That's as close
to
| afterburners in a 152 as I've seen.
|

[Peter R.]

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> There is an AD that requires just this
> test, BTW.

My Bonanza V35B has such an AD. Every hundred hours, I have to test the
ignition by turning it quickly off and then back to both to verify the
p-lead is intact.

--
Peter

[Jim Macklin]

Just about all light aircraft since the AD is on the mag
switch.



"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > There is an AD that requires just this
| > test, BTW.
|
| My Bonanza V35B has such an AD. Every hundred hours, I
have to test the
| ignition by turning it quickly off and then back to both
to verify the
| p-lead is intact.
|
| --
| Peter

[Peter R.]

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> Just about all light aircraft since the AD is on the mag
> switch.

The AD for my Bonanza is dated 1977. Are you saying that this ignition
problem exists for aircraft manufactured after that year?

--
Peter

[RK Henry]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:55:21 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>You must have turned the key back on. It is a good practice
>to check the P lead grounding on a regular basis by turning
>the key off at IDLE to be sure the mags can be killed. Then
>turn the key back on before the engine slow too much, no
>harm will be done. There is an AD that requires just this
>test, BTW.
>Then shutdown with the mixture to clear the cylinders so it
>is less likely to start accidentally is the P lead/switch is
>disconnected.

That's what I was taught years ago in primary training: Test the mag
switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that routine.

You never know when some fool is going to be messing with the prop
while the airplane is parked.

RK Henry

[Jim Macklin]

It is a continuing problem. Mag switches wear out and the
engine will "fail safe" to a running condition when the
switch fails "open" circuit. The AD is so that the failed
mag switch will be detected before someone is killed.




"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > Just about all light aircraft since the AD is on the mag
| > switch.
|
| The AD for my Bonanza is dated 1977. Are you saying that
this ignition
| problem exists for aircraft manufactured after that year?
|
| --
| Peter

[Jim Macklin]

Agreed, better to test the switch, or as Ronald Reagan said,
"trust, but verify."


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"RK Henry" > wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:55:21 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >You must have turned the key back on. It is a good
practice
| >to check the P lead grounding on a regular basis by
turning
| >the key off at IDLE to be sure the mags can be killed.
Then
| >turn the key back on before the engine slow too much, no
| >harm will be done. There is an AD that requires just
this
| >test, BTW.
| >Then shutdown with the mixture to clear the cylinders so
it
| >is less likely to start accidentally is the P lead/switch
is
| >disconnected.
|
| That's what I was taught years ago in primary training:
Test the mag
| switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that
routine.
|
| You never know when some fool is going to be messing with
the prop
| while the airplane is parked.
|
| RK Henry

[Jim Logajan]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote:
> Agreed, better to test the switch, or as Ronald Reagan said,
> "trust, but verify."

OT: My understanding is that Reagan was "quoting" an old Russian proverb.

[Kingfish]

RK Henry wrote:
> That's what I was taught years ago in primary training: Test the mag
> switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that routine.
>
> You never know when some fool is going to be messing with the prop
> while the airplane is parked.

I never really understood the reason behind that. If you kill the
engine with the mixture pulling the prop through will do nothing other
than close the impulse coupler and fire the mag. With no fuel present,
nothing will happen. However, if you kill the engine with the mag
switch (and have a busted P lead) the carb is still primed and the
engine could start and turn a few revolutions if said fool were to pull
the prop through. Granted the hot mag check only takes a moment, but if
the engine is shut down properly there shouldn't be any danger, correct?

[Jim Macklin]

I find that amateur verbs have a fresher and newer action.

Is there anything really new since 1880?



"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
| > Agreed, better to test the switch, or as Ronald Reagan
said,
| > "trust, but verify."
|
| OT: My understanding is that Reagan was "quoting" an old
Russian proverb.

[Jim Macklin]

Double safety. Idle cutoff valves can also leak, primers
can leak and they by-pass the carb in some engines.


"Kingfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| RK Henry wrote:
| > That's what I was taught years ago in primary training:
Test the mag
| > switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that
routine.
| >
| > You never know when some fool is going to be messing
with the prop
| > while the airplane is parked.
|
| I never really understood the reason behind that. If you
kill the
| engine with the mixture pulling the prop through will do
nothing other
| than close the impulse coupler and fire the mag. With no
fuel present,
| nothing will happen. However, if you kill the engine with
the mag
| switch (and have a busted P lead) the carb is still primed
and the
| engine could start and turn a few revolutions if said fool
were to pull
| the prop through. Granted the hot mag check only takes a
moment, but if
| the engine is shut down properly there shouldn't be any
danger, correct?
|

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:8N9Zg.7653$XX2.5176@dukeread04...
> Double safety. Idle cutoff valves can also leak, primers
> can leak and they by-pass the carb in some engines.

FWIW, my 'hot start' procedure involved starting the engine with the mixture
at idle cut-off. There's enough fuel to get it running for at least a few
seconds. It keeps running as long as I hit the mixture quickly enough.

[[email protected]]

Peter R. wrote:
> Jim Macklin > wrote:
>
> > Just about all light aircraft since the AD is on the mag
> > switch.
>
> The AD for my Bonanza is dated 1977. Are you saying that this ignition
> problem exists for aircraft manufactured after that year?
>
> --
> Peter

Several Ignition switch ADs:
This one addresses burned start contacts in the switch:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument

So does this one:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument

This one applies to this discussion:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/C14960A415D956BD86256E520053A53E?OpenDocument

Lots of these switches are in use. They could end up on newer
airplanes as replacement parts from older stock that hasn't been
checked by the seller. The ADs are listed under "Appliances" and that
section can be long and dry reading while doing an AD search for any
particular airplane. I have seen overlooked ADs on a lot of stuff
listed under that section.

Dan

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> Several Ignition switch ADs:

Interesting. Thanks for that.

--
Peter

[Jim Macklin]

My hot start procedure is with a carb is to flood the engine
with the primer, mixture in cut-off [ICO] and throttle wide
open [WOT]. Crank it for not more than 30 seconds out of
any 2 minute period. If it has not started after three
attempts, let the starter motor cool for 30 minutes. Hot
start solved. It helps to open the cowling or at least the
oil filler door and parking into any wind, cowl flaps open.

On an injected engine, mixture in ICO and WOT, run the boost
pump until I hear the boost pump slow down when the vapor is
purged + 5 seconds. Set the throttle to an idle position
and start the engine, advancing the mixture to 1/2 open and
blip the boost pump as required.

Watch the starter time, they get hot and can melt the solder
that hold the windings in place and then they grow until
they seize. Motors do the same thing if they are
over-loaded and turning slowly.

Nice thing about the Bonanza, you can open the cowl and
expose he entire engine to cool. They have Hartwell
latches. Old Bonanzas have Dzus fasteners and you need a
tool, but can still be opened.


"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:eT9Zg.3482$kG5.2123@trndny07...
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:8N9Zg.7653$XX2.5176@dukeread04...
| > Double safety. Idle cutoff valves can also leak,
primers
| > can leak and they by-pass the carb in some engines.
|
| FWIW, my 'hot start' procedure involved starting the
engine with the mixture
| at idle cut-off. There's enough fuel to get it running for
at least a few
| seconds. It keeps running as long as I hit the mixture
quickly enough.
|
|
|

[Jim Macklin]

You can save a lot of time if every part replaced or
installed is listed by make, part number and serial number.
As the FAA gets everything on-line AD searches will become a
matter of automated database searches. But if you don't
keep good records you'll still need to open the hatches and
look at each part.

When buying a plane, open the hatches, the records may say
the AD was complied with, but an inspection often finds it
hasn't.


> wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Peter R. wrote:
| > Jim Macklin >
wrote:
| >
| > > Just about all light aircraft since the AD is on the
mag
| > > switch.
| >
| > The AD for my Bonanza is dated 1977. Are you saying
that this ignition
| > problem exists for aircraft manufactured after that
year?
| >
| > --
| > Peter
|
| Several Ignition switch ADs:
| This one addresses burned start contacts in the switch:
|
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument
|
| So does this one:
|
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument
|
| This one applies to this discussion:
|
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/C14960A415D956BD86256E520053A53E?OpenDocument
|
| Lots of these switches are in use. They could end
up on newer
| airplanes as replacement parts from older stock that
hasn't been
| checked by the seller. The ADs are listed under
"Appliances" and that
| section can be long and dry reading while doing an AD
search for any
| particular airplane. I have seen overlooked ADs on a lot
of stuff
| listed under that section.
|
| Dan
|

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RK Henry" > wrote

> That's what I was taught years ago in primary training: Test the mag
> switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that routine.
>
> You never know when some fool is going to be messing with the prop
> while the airplane is parked.

Explorers at OSH are not allowed to ever touch a prop, while helping a pilot
move an airplane, because of that fact.
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Macklin]

About 50 mechanics are killed or injured by props every year
because they have to work near running engine to do some of
their work.


I always cringe when I see people leaning on a prop.


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "RK Henry" > wrote
|
| > That's what I was taught years ago in primary training:
Test the mag
| > switch as part of EVERY shutdown. I still follow that
routine.
| >
| > You never know when some fool is going to be messing
with the prop
| > while the airplane is parked.
|
| Explorers at OSH are not allowed to ever touch a prop,
while helping a pilot
| move an airplane, because of that fact.
| --
| Jim in NC
|

[Emily]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> About 50 mechanics are killed or injured by props every year
> because they have to work near running engine to do some of
> their work.

Cite? That seems rather high.

Although I will admit to slamming myself in the chest with one. That
left a bruise....

Please no flames, I learned my lesson...now I only deal with jets. <g>

[Jim Macklin]

Jets suck up a few mechanics too.

I looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and if I read the
data correctly, 97 workers, not pilots were killed by
airplanes.


"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > About 50 mechanics are killed or injured by props every
year
| > because they have to work near running engine to do some
of
| > their work.
|
| Cite? That seems rather high.
|
| Although I will admit to slamming myself in the chest with
one. That
| left a bruise....
|
| Please no flames, I learned my lesson...now I only deal
with jets. <g>

[Emily]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Jets suck up a few mechanics too.

That's why I don't wrench. <g> In fact, I pretty much stay away from
completely assembled engines unless they are installed on an aircraft
that I am PIC of.

> I looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and if I read the
> data correctly, 97 workers, not pilots were killed by
> airplanes.

But that doesn't meant propellers, just aircraft in general, right? I
remember a few years ago at ORD, a guy driving the tug got run over. Or
maybe sucked up. Can't remember.

[Jim Macklin]

I do remember the instruction I got at Spartan when I got my
A&P. Looking for the exact stats on-line is a little time
consuming, since the search terms need to be general enough
to find the data and selective enough that you don't get a
lot of boating accidents.

Since for any person, only one prop strike accident is one
too many, whether nationally it is 2 or 1 a week or just
once a month, be careful.

www.firstgov.gov www.bls.gov
"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Jets suck up a few mechanics too.
|
| That's why I don't wrench. <g> In fact, I pretty much
stay away from
| completely assembled engines unless they are installed on
an aircraft
| that I am PIC of.
|
| > I looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and if I read
the
| > data correctly, 97 workers, not pilots were killed by
| > airplanes.
|
| But that doesn't meant propellers, just aircraft in
general, right? I
| remember a few years ago at ORD, a guy driving the tug got
run over. Or
| maybe sucked up. Can't remember.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:rygZg.10115$XX2.3579@dukeread04...
> About 50 mechanics are killed or injured by props every year
> because they have to work near running engine to do some of
> their work.
>
>
> I always cringe when I see people leaning on a prop.

I once caught a 12 year old boy pulling a prop though at OSH. I read him the
riot act, while telling him what could happen.
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Macklin]

They should make cast iron airplanes for "flight line
decoys" and put guards on the real airplanes. Yes, we need
kids to see, touch and learn about airplanes and become
pilots. But please, parents, watch your kids. I caught a
five year old, unattended ay a flying in Pratt, KS chinning
himself on the pitot tube of a homebuilt.



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:rygZg.10115$XX2.3579@dukeread04...
| > About 50 mechanics are killed or injured by props every
year
| > because they have to work near running engine to do some
of
| > their work.
| >
| >
| > I always cringe when I see people leaning on a prop.
|
| I once caught a 12 year old boy pulling a prop though at
OSH. I read him the
| riot act, while telling him what could happen.
| --
| Jim in NC
|

[mike regish]

I've found myself running around keeping kids from touching props at our
local aviation events. I ended up putting signs on all the props. A simple
"Please do not touch propellors" seems to be pretty effective. And in the
cases where that didn't work, a simple, matter-of-fact explanation of the
possible consequences always did the trick. It actually resulted in some of
the kids warning others.

mike

> | >
> | > I always cringe when I see people leaning on a prop.
> |
> | I once caught a 12 year old boy pulling a prop though at
> OSH. I read him the
> | riot act, while telling him what could happen.
> | --
> | Jim in NC
> |
>
>

[Kingfish]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Double safety. Idle cutoff valves can also leak, primers
> can leak and they by-pass the carb in some engines.
>

Mystery solved. Thanks Jim.

[Jim Macklin]

You're welcome.


"Kingfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Double safety. Idle cutoff valves can also leak,
primers
| > can leak and they by-pass the carb in some engines.
| >
|
| Mystery solved. Thanks Jim.
|