French Inventions (answers)

[Greg Farris]

INVENTIONS

Here are the answers, to the best of my knowledge:


PHOTOGRAPHY
TRUE: Most of the pioneering work in photography happened in France, and
almost no matter which process you consider to be the first true
photograph, it is likely to be French.

MOTION PICTURES
TRUE: The anteriority (and veracity) of the claim by the French Louis
Lumière is contested today - but the other contenders are all French
anyway. Many spectacular developments throughout motion picture history
were actually American applications of French inventions.
Not quite so many as the French claim, but many. . .

AVIATION
The French claim to the invention of aviation goes back to the frères
Mongolfier, who pioneered balloon flight. Depending on how you choose to
define aviation, the claim may have some legitimacy. The French have
always been important aviation pioneers, yet few specific breakthrough
inventions can be attributed directly to them. Powered flight is
generally attributed to the Wright Bros, though New Zealanders claim it
for their own Richard Pearse. The French claim the invention of the
airplane as well, however the assertion that any of Clement Ader's
pre-Wright devices actually flew has been largely discredited.

THE AUTOMOBILE
MAYBE: There were so many inventions, of so many different types over so
many years it is difficult to determine which is rightfully the precursor
of today's BMW 850. Benz is often cited, but the French Cugnot a century
earlier had a steam-driven machine that looks a lot like a car to me.

THE BICYCLE
FALSE: The French claim that their "Celerifere" from 1791 was the first
bicycle - an assertion particularly difficult to entertain, when one sees
Leonardo's 15th century drawings clearly depicting modem-looking
bicycles. Some Egyptologists even claim there may have been bicycles in
ancient Egypt - depictions are thought to be seen in some carvings.

SOUND RECORDING

TRUE : Charles Cros deposited a sealed letter to the French Académie des
Sciences in advance of Edison's own patent, and the letter was presented
in public session. Though he never built a machine, the anteriority of
the invention appears without serious contention today. Despite the
remarkable similarity of principles, it also appears highly unlikely that
Edison had any knowledge of Charles Cros or of his invention prior to
patenting and successfully building his own Phonograph. If Cros is the
inventor, the "Henry Ford" of the early audio industry is unquestionably
Emile Berliner, who created the first disc, the "Grammophone" (Cros and
Edison were using cylinders). Berliner created the Grammophon Company in
Germany (today Deutsche Grammophon). Not content with this trifling
experience, he moved to the US where he founded the immensely successful
Victor Talking Machine company, much later to merge with RCA to form the
illustrious moniker: RCA Victor.

RADIOACTIVITY (discovery of)
FALSE: The word "radioactivité" comes from Marie Curie, whose pioneering
work is of paramount importance, but of course it is subsequent to the
breakthrough discovery of X- Rays, by the German Roentgen in 1895.

IMMUNOLOGY
FALSE: Jenner (English) developed the smallpox vaccine a full century
before Pasteur's breakthrough work. And the ensuing century was also rife
with invention and discovery in the field, much of it occurring in
Germany. Since Pasteur, the French have been leaders though in immunology
research, and they first isolated the AIDS virus and its antibodies in
the 1980's. The Americans attempted disingenuously to usurp this
research, but the French anteriority was established. This did not
prevent the French nationalized blood bank from knowingly distributing
AIDS tainted blood, administered to hundreds of hemophiliacs and accident
victims over a two-year period, in order to avoid yielding market share
to safe products and methods available from the US.



BONUS QUESTION:
What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the Internal
Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)

[Jim Logajan]

Greg Farris > wrote:
> AVIATION
> The French claim to the invention of aviation goes back to the frères
> Mongolfier, who pioneered balloon flight. Depending on how you choose
> to define aviation, the claim may have some legitimacy. The French
> have always been important aviation pioneers, yet few specific
> breakthrough inventions can be attributed directly to them. Powered
> flight is generally attributed to the Wright Bros, though New
> Zealanders claim it for their own Richard Pearse. The French claim the
> invention of the airplane as well, however the assertion that any of
> Clement Ader's pre-Wright devices actually flew has been largely
> discredited.

Here's the Wikipedia article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_flying_machine

[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Greg Farris > wrote:
>> AVIATION
>> The French claim to the invention of aviation goes back to the frères
>> Mongolfier, who pioneered balloon flight. Depending on how you choose
>> to define aviation, the claim may have some legitimacy. The French
>> have always been important aviation pioneers, yet few specific
>> breakthrough inventions can be attributed directly to them. Powered
>> flight is generally attributed to the Wright Bros, though New
>> Zealanders claim it for their own Richard Pearse. The French claim the
>> invention of the airplane as well, however the assertion that any of
>> Clement Ader's pre-Wright devices actually flew has been largely
>> discredited.
>
>Here's the Wikipedia article on the subject:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_flying_machine

I guess the fact that the word "Montgolfier" is not mentioned in the
otherwise well-prepared article pretty much sends them back to the books
to try again . . .

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Greg Farris" > wrote in message
...
>
> BONUS QUESTION:
> What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the Internal
> Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)
>

Bell was a Scot.

[Jim Logajan]

Greg Farris > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>Here's the Wikipedia article on the subject:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_flying_machine
>
> I guess the fact that the word "Montgolfier" is not mentioned in the
> otherwise well-prepared article pretty much sends them back to the
> books to try again . . .

Seems that only heavier-than-air flight (powered and unpowered) makes their
list. If gliders qualify, then manned flight first appears to have occurred
over a thousand years ago - either on the Iberian Peninsula or in China,
depending on ones confidence level requirements.

[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:12:38 +0200, Greg Farris >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>BONUS QUESTION:
>>What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the Internal
>>Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)
>
>Radio broadcasting?
>
>Surely you aren't crediting Marconi with Tesla's invention.
>
>Who are you thinking invented the internal combustion engine?
>
>1680 - Dutch physicist, Christian Huygens designed (but never built)
>an internal combustion engine that was to be fueled with gunpowder.
>1807 - Francois Isaac de Rivaz of Switzerland invented an internal
>combustion engine that used a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen for fuel.
>1824 - English engineer, Samuel Brown adapted an old Newcomen steam
>engine to burn gas
>1858 - Belgian-born engineer, Jean Joseph Étienne Lenoir invented and
>patented (1860) a double-acting, electric spark-ignition internal
>combustion engine fueled by coal gas.
>1862 - Alphonse Beau de Rochas, a French civil engineer, patented but
>did not build a four-stroke engine (French patent #52,593, January 16,
>1862).
>1864 - Austrian engineer, Siegfried Marcus, built a one-cylinder
>engine with a crude carburetor, and attached his engine to a cart for
>a rocky 500-foot drive.
>1873 - George Brayton, an American engineer, developed an unsuccessful
>two-stroke kerosene engine (it used two external pumping cylinders).
>1876 - Nikolaus August Otto invented and later patented a successful
> four-stroke engine, known as the "Otto cycle".
>1876 - The first successful two-stroke engine was invented by Sir
>Dougald Clerk.
>
>Not an Italian among them.
>


It is indeed astonishing that most succinct historical accounts mention
Christiaan Huygens, who never made a working model, but fail to mention
Barsanti and Matteucci, to whom the credit may fittingly belong.



>As for the Telephone, if we don't accept the conventional wisdom that
>Bell (a Scott living in Boston) invented it, the honor probably goes
>to Elisha Gray, a Quaker from Ohio that started Western Electric
>Manufacturing. Prior to him it would have to be Philipp Reis, a
>German - though his device couldn't transmit recognisable speech.

Meucci has been recognized by the US House of Representatives, in House
Resolution 269, dated 11 June 2002, as stated, "Expresses the sense of the
House of Representatives that the life and achievements of Antonio Meucci
should be recognized, and his work in the invention of the telephone should
be acknowledged."


Bell was Canadian.

[James Robinson]

Greg Farris > wrote:
>
> BONUS QUESTION:
> What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the
> Internal Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)

These inventions were in development by many people, and some may have
built on ideas from others.

The light bulb is a good example. Edison is credited by many, but in
looking at the issue in more detail, you will find that he bought a
patent from a Canadian inventor, who had the essential idea, and was
perhaps 90 percent of the way to a practical product. Edison then
perfected the filament and gas in the container. So who was the inventor?
The one with the original idea, or the one who finally made a saleable
product?

What Edison excelled at, was making practical use of his inventions, and
in marketing.

The radio is another example. A number of people were working on various
designs, and Nicola Tesla is the one who holds the first patent for a
tuneable circuit, which he used to wirelessly transmit information from
one place to another in expositions. Tesla was not good at marketing his
inventions, unlike Edison, or Marconi, so even though he has claim to the
technology, he really didn't do anything practical with it.

Since the question about radio was related to "broadcasting", the credit
generally goes to Reginald Fessenden, a Canadian, who did much of his
experimental work near Kitty Hawk. (Had to get an oblique reference to
aviation in my post) While Marconi believed code was transmitted through
ether, and marketed point-to-point communication, Fessenden understood
radio waves, and developed the first transmitter for voice. He made the
first "broadcast", using his designs, and intended for more than one
receiver, in 1906.

http://www.radiocom.net/Fessenden/

[Mxsmanic]

Greg Farris writes:

> RADIOACTIVITY (discovery of)
> FALSE: The word "radioactivité" comes from Marie Curie, whose pioneering
> work is of paramount importance, but of course it is subsequent to the
> breakthrough discovery of X- Rays, by the German Roentgen in 1895.

This is a misconception. Radioactivity is nuclear decay. The
production of x-rays has nothing to do with radioactive decay.
Roentgen discovered the properties of a specific range of frequencies
of electromagnetic radiation, but this is completely unrelated to the
phenomenon of nuclear decay, which produces radioactivity (emission of
subatomic particles and certain frequencies of electromagnetic
radiation associated with the spontaneous reconfiguration or mutation
of atomic nuclei).

--
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[Gene Seibel]

Well, technically ballooning is not aviation, since the word aviation
comes from the Latin avis which means bird.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.



Greg Farris wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> >
> >
> >Greg Farris > wrote:
> >> AVIATION
> >> The French claim to the invention of aviation goes back to the frères
> >> Mongolfier, who pioneered balloon flight. Depending on how you choose
> >> to define aviation, the claim may have some legitimacy. The French
> >> have always been important aviation pioneers, yet few specific
> >> breakthrough inventions can be attributed directly to them. Powered
> >> flight is generally attributed to the Wright Bros, though New
> >> Zealanders claim it for their own Richard Pearse. The French claim the
> >> invention of the airplane as well, however the assertion that any of
> >> Clement Ader's pre-Wright devices actually flew has been largely
> >> discredited.
> >
> >Here's the Wikipedia article on the subject:
> >
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_flying_machine
>
> I guess the fact that the word "Montgolfier" is not mentioned in the
> otherwise well-prepared article pretty much sends them back to the books
> to try again . . .

[Jim Logajan]

"Gene Seibel" > wrote:
> Well, technically ballooning is not aviation, since the word aviation
> comes from the Latin avis which means bird.

How many planes flap their wings to take off and drop poop on newly washed
cars?

:-)

[John Gaquin]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>
> This is a misconception. Radioactivity is nuclear decay. The
> production of x-rays has nothing to do with radioactive decay.

Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet another
area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight simulator?

[Jim Logajan]

"John Gaquin" > wrote:
> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>>
>> This is a misconception. Radioactivity is nuclear decay. The
>> production of x-rays has nothing to do with radioactive decay.
>
> Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet
> another area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight
> simulator?

Mxsmanic is essentially correct.

[Emily]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> "John Gaquin" > wrote:
>> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>>> This is a misconception. Radioactivity is nuclear decay. The
>>> production of x-rays has nothing to do with radioactive decay.
>> Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet
>> another area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight
>> simulator?
>
> Mxsmanic is essentially correct.

Unfortunate, but true. Maybe a lucky guess?

[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>"John Gaquin" > wrote:
>> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> This is a misconception. Radioactivity is nuclear decay. The
>>> production of x-rays has nothing to do with radioactive decay.
>>

>
>Mxsmanic is essentially correct.

Well taken - nevertheless, the discovery made by Roentgen is
universally accepted as one of the initial, pioneering steps in the
discovery of radioactivity.

One claim the French can make without contest is the discovery of the
n-ray :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray

[Mxsmanic]

John Gaquin writes:

> Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet another
> area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight simulator?

Keep in mind that anything you post to USENET is likely to still be
around twenty years from now.

--
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[Mxsmanic]

Greg Farris writes:

> Well taken - nevertheless, the discovery made by Roentgen is
> universally accepted as one of the initial, pioneering steps in the
> discovery of radioactivity.

Is it? I should think that it helped towards an understanding of
electromagnetic radiation and the similarity of all frequencies of
radiation, but I don't know that it was connected in any clear way to
radioactive decay. They are two completely different processes.

--
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[John Gaquin]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
>>
>> Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet
>> another area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight
>> simulator?
>
> Mxsmanic is essentially correct.

Irrelevant to the question.

[John Gaquin]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>
> Keep in mind that anything you post to USENET is likely to still be
> around twenty years from now.

You might do well to follow your own advice.

[Mxsmanic]

John Gaquin writes:

> You might do well to follow your own advice.

I do. My post was correct.

--
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[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...

>http://www.donparrish.com/BellWeb/BellTombstoneText.jpg
>
>I figure he gets the last word, so he's not canadian.
>


Yeah, I think we can give him that.
After all we're taking away his telephone . . .

[PPL-A (Canada)]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Greg Farris" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > BONUS QUESTION:
> > What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the Internal
> > Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)
> >
>
> Bell was a Scot.

No ... Alexander Graham Bell was a Canadian. He came to Canada at the
age of 23. The first practical, long distance telephone call was made
on August 10, 1876, by the then 29-year-old Alexander Graham Bell from
downtown Brantford, Ontario to his assistant in Paris, Ontario, a
distance of about 10 miles.

PPL-A (Canada)

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"PPL-A (Canada)" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> No ... Alexander Graham Bell was a Canadian. He came to Canada at the
> age of 23. The first practical, long distance telephone call was made
> on August 10, 1876, by the then 29-year-old Alexander Graham Bell from
> downtown Brantford, Ontario to his assistant in Paris, Ontario, a
> distance of about 10 miles.
>
> PPL-A (Canada)
>

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bell was never a Canadian citizen. He was
born in Scotland, immigrated to Canada in 1870 and to the U.S. in 1871, and
became a naturalized American citizen in 1882.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"James Robinson" > wrote in message
. ..
> Greg Farris > wrote:
>>
>> BONUS QUESTION:
>> What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the
>> Internal Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)
>
> These inventions were in development by many people, and some may have
> built on ideas from others.
>
> The light bulb is a good example. Edison is credited by many, but in
> looking at the issue in more detail, you will find that he bought a
> patent from a Canadian inventor, who had the essential idea, and was
> perhaps 90 percent of the way to a practical product. Edison then
> perfected the filament and gas in the container. So who was the inventor?
> The one with the original idea, or the one who finally made a saleable
> product?
>

Some sources indicate that Nernst got his light bulb into production before
Edison.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Chris]

"PPL-A (Canada)" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>> "Greg Farris" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > BONUS QUESTION:
>> > What nationality can legitimately claim Radio broadcasting, the
>> > Internal
>> > Combustion Engine, and the Telephone? (ITALY)
>> >
>>
>> Bell was a Scot.
>
> No ... Alexander Graham Bell was a Canadian. He came to Canada at the
> age of 23. The first practical, long distance telephone call was made
> on August 10, 1876, by the then 29-year-old Alexander Graham Bell from
> downtown Brantford, Ontario to his assistant in Paris, Ontario, a
> distance of about 10 miles.
>
> PPL-A (Canada)
>
Ethnically he was a Scot and always will be. whether he was in Canada or
Scotland he was still a subject of the Crown until he became an American
citizen. Even then he was still a Scot. That heritage is important. Try
being in Edinburgh in the summer where there seem to be millions of N
Americans trying to find their Scottish roots, all wearing silly tartan
hats.

[Stefan]

>> The light bulb is a good example. Edison is credited by many, but in
>> looking at the issue in more detail, you will find that he bought a
>> patent from a Canadian inventor, who had the essential idea, and was
>> perhaps 90 percent of the way to a practical product. Edison then
>> perfected the filament and gas in the container. So who was the inventor?


"If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants."

(Isaac Newton in a letter to Robert Hooke, 1676)

Stefan

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Chris" > wrote in message
...
>
> Ethnically he was a Scot and always will be. whether he was in Canada or
> Scotland he was still a subject of the Crown until he became an American
> citizen. Even then he was still a Scot. That heritage is important. Try
> being in Edinburgh in the summer where there seem to be millions of N
> Americans trying to find their Scottish roots, all wearing silly tartan
> hats.

Bell wasn't in Canada or Scotland. He did move to Canada from Scotland in
1870, but he moved to the US the following year. His work on the telephone
took place in Boston.

[Chris]

While Marconi believed code was transmitted through
> ether, and marketed point-to-point communication, Fessenden understood
> radio waves, and developed the first transmitter for voice.

Not so, Marconi fully understood the significance of waves
"When Heinrich Hertz, who discovered wireless waves, died in 1894, Righi
wrote an obituary that fired Marconi with the idea of deploying these waves
for 'wire-less' telegraphy. "So elementary, so simple in logic," he said
later. "

http://www.marconicalling.com/marconioverview/life.html

[Skywise]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in
:

>
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> Do you have documentable credibility in this area, or is this yet
>>> another area of speculation, based upon your nuclear powered flight
>>> simulator?
>>
>> Mxsmanic is essentially correct.
>
> Irrelevant to the question.

You're making a logical mistake known as the "appeal to authority."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

On one hand, people take on blind faith the word of a person
who holds credentials. Just because a person has a lot of
credentials doesn't mean they can't be wrong.

On the other hand is the person with no credentials. The fact
that they have no credentials doesn't mean they can't be right.

Brian
--
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