Certificated a/c, inexpensive epoxy primer, autobody?

[Michael Horowitz]

I have a certificated a/c (rag and steel Tcraft). I'm considering the
Superflite I covering system.

Since the Superflite system apparently doesn't begin until the 'apply
the cloth' stage, I'm free to use any primer. I'd like to use an epoxy
primer since I've seen what condensation did to my steel tubes.

So I'm looking for an inexpensive epoxy primer. Am I restriced in what
I use since it's a certified a/c ? Must I stay away from the auto body
shop/store? Suggestions?

- Mike

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Michael Horowitz > wrote:

> I have a certificated a/c (rag and steel Tcraft). I'm considering the
> Superflite I covering system.
>
> Since the Superflite system apparently doesn't begin until the 'apply
> the cloth' stage, I'm free to use any primer. I'd like to use an epoxy
> primer since I've seen what condensation did to my steel tubes.
>
> So I'm looking for an inexpensive epoxy primer. Am I restriced in what
> I use since it's a certified a/c ? Must I stay away from the auto body
> shop/store? Suggestions?
>
> - Mike

You have to make sure that the stuff you apply has enough flexibility
that it doesn't start cracking. Cracking/ringworming is a problem with
standard automotive urethane/epoxy on fabric.

I suggest that you have a long chat with a good paint guy who has
experience with fabric.

[Carl Ellis]

Orval -

I think that Mike is talking about primer for his fuselage frame, not
the fabric. Some covering system require their "brand" of metal primer
for proper adhesion of fabric to frame.

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:31:00 -0700, Carl Ellis >
wrote:

>Orval -
>
>I think that Mike is talking about primer for his fuselage frame, not
>the fabric. Some covering system require their "brand" of metal primer
>for proper adhesion of fabric to frame.


Carl is right on - MIke

[David Lamphere]

Michael

I'm using the Superflite covering materials (System VI) on the Tailwind I'm
building.

After a lot of research (and phone calls & emails with Superflite) , I found
out that what you use for a primer IS important because if it is not a
really good two part epoxy system, the covering adhesives (and related MEK
solvent) will dissolve the primer!

For example: I was going to use PPG DP48LF (white) epoxy primer on the
sandblasted tube fuse frame. According to Superflite's engineer (and
others) - this will not stand up to the solvents well enough!! But since I
planned to use their urethane color topcoat on the frame before covering, no
problem.. (phew!)

Quite a few of the guys in the Tailwind group have used Randolph Epibond
with good success under Superflite and Polyfiber processes - so I know that
is an acceptable choice for experimentals if you are not trying to match a
certain color.

For certified..... I think you might have to stick with the manufacturer's
process to get the FAA "approved" (STC?) "OK for this airplane" - but that
is a question for the FAA reg experts/DAR's..

Dave

PS.
Back when we lived in upper state Vermont (and the FBO could get reasonable
insurance rates) we rented a T-Craft out of Highgate (FSO). VERY nice
flying airplane.. It was a lot of fun! While the engine was small and hand
started, I thought it was a winner!! Good luck with your project!

"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:31:00 -0700, Carl Ellis >
> wrote:
>
> >Orval -
> >
> >I think that Mike is talking about primer for his fuselage frame, not
> >the fabric. Some covering system require their "brand" of metal primer
> >for proper adhesion of fabric to frame.
>
>
> Carl is right on - MIke

[Michael Horowitz]

Dave - I have an e-mail out to Superflite asking them where there
process begins. For example (as you and others point out) some of the
fabric adhesives don't react well with some primers, so the approved
process would have to extend to what primer is used. In many cases,
the owner of the process may also manufacture that primer. Since
their tech guy said Zinc Oxide was fine as a primer for System 1 and
their literature (for system 1) doesn't specify a primer, I feel free
to use anything I want (but to best protect the metal, I'd like to go
with a 2 part epoxy) so I'm left looking for a good/inexpensive epoxy
primer. Interesting - if they don't specify a primer and the process
won't work with some primers, then they have a problem! - MIke


On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 01:36:44 GMT, "David Lamphere"
> wrote:

>Michael
>
>I'm using the Superflite covering materials (System VI) on the Tailwind I'm
>building.
>
>After a lot of research (and phone calls & emails with Superflite) , I found
>out that what you use for a primer IS important because if it is not a
>really good two part epoxy system, the covering adhesives (and related MEK
>solvent) will dissolve the primer!
>
>For example: I was going to use PPG DP48LF (white) epoxy primer on the
>sandblasted tube fuse frame. According to Superflite's engineer (and
>others) - this will not stand up to the solvents well enough!! But since I
>planned to use their urethane color topcoat on the frame before covering, no
>problem.. (phew!)
>
>Quite a few of the guys in the Tailwind group have used Randolph Epibond
>with good success under Superflite and Polyfiber processes - so I know that
>is an acceptable choice for experimentals if you are not trying to match a
>certain color.
>
>For certified..... I think you might have to stick with the manufacturer's
>process to get the FAA "approved" (STC?) "OK for this airplane" - but that
>is a question for the FAA reg experts/DAR's..
>
>Dave
>
>PS.
>Back when we lived in upper state Vermont (and the FBO could get reasonable
>insurance rates) we rented a T-Craft out of Highgate (FSO). VERY nice
>flying airplane.. It was a lot of fun! While the engine was small and hand
>started, I thought it was a winner!! Good luck with your project!
>
>"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:31:00 -0700, Carl Ellis >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Orval -
>> >
>> >I think that Mike is talking about primer for his fuselage frame, not
>> >the fabric. Some covering system require their "brand" of metal primer
>> >for proper adhesion of fabric to frame.
>>
>>
>> Carl is right on - MIke
>

[ccwillwerth]

I used an epoxy callled MoPoxy for my steel tube. The exopxy primer is used
on ships and in marine applications to protect them from rust. I am unsing
polyfibre to cover the aircraft. They told me to put some mek or acetone on
a rag and lay the rag on the epoxy primed surface. If it softens the
primer, it is not suitable for use with polyfibre. It is flexable enough to
use in marine applications with far more flexing than I would expect in my
airplane. It comes in a list of different colors and types. I avoided the
"high build" type.

Charlie


"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have a certificated a/c (rag and steel Tcraft). I'm considering the
> Superflite I covering system.
>
> Since the Superflite system apparently doesn't begin until the 'apply
> the cloth' stage, I'm free to use any primer. I'd like to use an epoxy
> primer since I've seen what condensation did to my steel tubes.
>
> So I'm looking for an inexpensive epoxy primer. Am I restriced in what
> I use since it's a certified a/c ? Must I stay away from the auto body
> shop/store? Suggestions?
>
> - Mike
>

[cavelamb himself]

Michael Horowitz wrote:
> Dave - I have an e-mail out to Superflite asking them where there
> process begins. For example (as you and others point out) some of the
> fabric adhesives don't react well with some primers, so the approved
> process would have to extend to what primer is used. In many cases,
> the owner of the process may also manufacture that primer. Since
> their tech guy said Zinc Oxide was fine as a primer for System 1 and
> their literature (for system 1) doesn't specify a primer, I feel free
> to use anything I want (but to best protect the metal, I'd like to go
> with a 2 part epoxy) so I'm left looking for a good/inexpensive epoxy
> primer. Interesting - if they don't specify a primer and the process
> won't work with some primers, then they have a problem! - MIke
>

EpiBond - best stuff I've rvrt found - and not THAT expensive.
Expecially for what you get.

Richard

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"ccwillwerth" > wrote:

> I used an epoxy callled MoPoxy for my steel tube. The exopxy primer is used
> on ships and in marine applications to protect them from rust. I am unsing
> polyfibre to cover the aircraft. They told me to put some mek or acetone on
> a rag and lay the rag on the epoxy primed surface. If it softens the
> primer, it is not suitable for use with polyfibre. It is flexable enough to
> use in marine applications with far more flexing than I would expect in my
> airplane. It comes in a list of different colors and types. I avoided the
> "high build" type.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I have a certificated a/c (rag and steel Tcraft). I'm considering the
> > Superflite I covering system.
> >
> > Since the Superflite system apparently doesn't begin until the 'apply
> > the cloth' stage, I'm free to use any primer. I'd like to use an epoxy
> > primer since I've seen what condensation did to my steel tubes.
> >
> > So I'm looking for an inexpensive epoxy primer. Am I restriced in what
> > I use since it's a certified a/c ? Must I stay away from the auto body
> > shop/store? Suggestions?
> >
> > - Mike
> >

I would prime the tube fuselage with 2-part epoxy primer and then paint
it with 2-part polyurethane, which is pretty resistant to solvents.