lancair crash scapoose, OR

[gatt]

Yesterday, according to the news, a pilot and his grandson walked away from
a crashed Lancair after it had an electrical failure on takeoff and made a
gear-up crash landing.

Question: Do Lancairs not have a hydraulic dump or something to lower the
gear in the event of such a failure?

-c

[Peter Duniho]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yesterday, according to the news, a pilot and his grandson walked away
> from a crashed Lancair after it had an electrical failure on takeoff and
> made a gear-up crash landing.
>
> Question: Do Lancairs not have a hydraulic dump or something to lower
> the gear in the event of such a failure?

What type of Lancair? If the certified Columbia, they must. From FAR
23.729:

(c) Emergency operation. For a landplane having retractable

landing gear that cannot be extended manually, there must be

means to extend the landing gear in the event of either—

(1) Any reasonably probable failure in the normal landing gear

operation system; or

(2) Any reasonably probable failure in a power source that

would prevent the operation of the normal landing gear

operation system


Since an electrical failure would be a "reasonably probably failure in a
power source...", a Columbia must have some sort of backup gear operation
system.

I'm less sure of how the experimental rules work, but I wouldn't be
surprised if one still needs some sort of backup operation system for the
gear, even for amateur-built experimentals.

Pete

[gatt]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...

>> Question: Do Lancairs not have a hydraulic dump or something to lower
>> the gear in the event of such a failure?
>
> What type of Lancair? If the certified Columbia, they must. From FAR
> 23.729:

Don't know. Ironically, I can't find the story in any of the local news
sources. They showed it on the 11 o'clock news last night, but that's the
last I've heard of it. Everything forward of the firewall looked crushed
and knocked 90 degrees to the side and the pilot looked like, well, he'd
just narrowly survived a crash with his grandson on board.

Bigger news, though, that fits the Dirty Laundry bill was a woman who fell
asleep at the wheel of her RV and rolled it on I-84 and another where a guy
was crushed by a rolling car which was in Park and had its emergency brake
on. (?!)

-c

[Peter Duniho]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> The Columbia does NOT have a backup gear operation system. Never has,
> probably never will.

Hmmm...I thought they had released a retractable version recently. Wonder
where I got that idea.

In that case, then the rules for experimentals would apply...like I said,
I'm less familiar with those rules. It surprises me that the basic
certification standards for the amateur-built category aren't more similar
to Part 23, but if it happens that they aren't, I don't have any first-hand
knowledge that would contradict that.

Pete

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:47:24 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Yesterday, according to the news, a pilot and his grandson walked away
>> from a crashed Lancair after it had an electrical failure on takeoff and
>> made a gear-up crash landing.
>>
>> Question: Do Lancairs not have a hydraulic dump or something to lower
>> the gear in the event of such a failure?
>
>What type of Lancair? If the certified Columbia, they must. From FAR
>23.729:
>
> (c) Emergency operation. For a landplane having retractable
>
> landing gear that cannot be extended manually, there must be

I'm not sure about this wording or if I'm missing something, but on a
Bonanza you only have two choices. The normal electric method and
manually. If the electric fails you must extend the gear manually
and if you are on take off when this happens forget even trying. It
takes 51 turns of a little gear handle and about two minutes to
manually extend the gear on a Bo. Oh..and to do so the pilot must
lean over and back between the seats to turn that little crank. That
means your head is below the bottom of the instrument panel. You best
know how to fly instruments or you will get a lot of exercise by
leaning over, make a turn (once the gear door is open you can only do
a half turn at a time although if you are fast you can get in two half
turns) and then straighten back up to look outside. That is a *LOT*
of sideways sit ups! Also it behooves the pilot to keep the speed
well below the maximum for gear extension but high enough to be safe.
Near the maximum that little handle is nigh onto impossible to turn.

If the gear won't come down and you are coming into a controlled
airport you might just as well tell them the problem and then fly out
where you have time and room to crank the gear down and stay out of
every one else's way.


>
> means to extend the landing gear in the event of either—
>
> (1) Any reasonably probable failure in the normal landing gear
>
> operation system; or
>
> (2) Any reasonably probable failure in a power source that
>
> would prevent the operation of the normal landing gear
>
> operation system

Which means lowering the gear manually, but that is referred to in the
first sentence.
>
>
>Since an electrical failure would be a "reasonably probably failure in a
>power source...", a Columbia must have some sort of backup gear operation
>system.
>
>I'm less sure of how the experimental rules work, but I wouldn't be
>surprised if one still needs some sort of backup operation system for the
>gear, even for amateur-built experimentals.

The Twin Comanche had the simplest emergency gear operation. Pull the
handle the gravity pulls the gear down.

>
>Pete
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Kyle Boatright]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Richard Riley" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The Columbia does NOT have a backup gear operation system. Never has,
>> probably never will.
>
> Hmmm...I thought they had released a retractable version recently. Wonder
> where I got that idea.
>
> In that case, then the rules for experimentals would apply...like I said,
> I'm less familiar with those rules. It surprises me that the basic
> certification standards for the amateur-built category aren't more similar
> to Part 23, but if it happens that they aren't, I don't have any
> first-hand knowledge that would contradict that.

Providing you can demonstrate compliance to the 51% rule, you can add
seatbelts, an N number, and the proper instrumentation to your barca-lounger
and get it "certified" as an experimental-amateur built. You'll have to add
a transponder, encoder, and a radio to fly it into Class B airspace. If you
deem the instrumentation adequate, you'll be able to fly it IFR as long as
you get the rating and the pitot/static/transponder passes the annual IFR
recertification test.

There are very few rules governing experimentals. This is a good thing if
you believe in self determination. Members of the "we have to be protected
against ourselves crowd" are probably not as appreciative.

KB

[.Blueskies.]

"gatt" > wrote in message ...
:: Don't know. Ironically, I can't find the story in any of the local news
: sources. They showed it on the 11 o'clock news last night, but that's the
: last I've heard of it. Everything forward of the firewall looked crushed
: and knocked 90 degrees to the side and the pilot looked like, well, he'd
: just narrowly survived a crash with his grandson on board.
:
:


not on the news cuz nobody died, doesn't fit the airplanes are not safe profile...

[Kingfish]

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
> The Twin Comanche had the simplest emergency gear operation. Pull the
> handle the gravity pulls the gear down.
>

Not unlike any other retractable gear Piper built since the 60's IIRC...

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:35:48 -0700, "gatt" >
wrote:

>
> Yesterday, according to the news, a pilot and his grandson walked away from
> a crashed Lancair after it had an electrical failure on takeoff and made a
> gear-up crash landing.
>
> Question: Do Lancairs not have a hydraulic dump or something to lower the
> gear in the event of such a failure?

The following, posted on a local aviation forum by a friend of the pilot, may
help:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"During the flight, he experienced total electrical failure. An emergency, yes,
but not something that would cause the airplane to fall out of the sky. He
headed back to Scappoose, where he entered the downwind. He turned base then
final, visually clearing each leg, as his radio was not working. He DID extend
the gear by using the emergency extension, which on that airplane is simply a
lever that allows the gear to free-fall. Upon VERY short final, he noticed an
airplane on the runway. He quickly side-stepped the runway to land on the grass.
At the same moment, he added full power to initiate a go-around. The immediate
torque of the engine caused a left bank and descent. The airplane hit the ground
in a left wing low attitude. It cartwheeled on the left wingtip, smashing the
nose into the ground. At that point, the airplane came to rest on its belly. The
gear was down, but got torn off by the impact....Everyone is fine, but the plane
is totaled."
------------------------------------------------------------------

Ron Wanttaja

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Ron Wanttaja > posted:

> The following, posted on a local aviation forum by a friend of the
> pilot, may help:
>
Any word on who the pilot is?

Neil

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:16:57 GMT, "Neil Gould" > wrote:

> Recently, Ron Wanttaja > posted:
>
> > The following, posted on a local aviation forum by a friend of the
> > pilot, may help:
> >
> Any word on who the pilot is?

Don't know, but the aircraft (N1382Y) is registered to a Manfred Alexander of
Camas, WA.

Ron Wanttaja