Cool or sick?

[Jay Honeck]

http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/101806_halloween

I can't decide...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Maybe I'm reading way too much into it, but I'm wondering what message he's
trying to send.

As an A&P is he saying flying isn't safe due to poor maintenance?
Is he trying to say to passengers "you have no control, you should feel
vulnerable when you fly?"
Is he trying to raise public awareness of some safety issue?

Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the reason
that he takes a form of public transportation that most people trust the
representatives of that company with their lives and then says "this is what
can happen to you if you fly".

I understand Halloween displays that say "this is what can happen if you
drink and drive" or "this is your brain on drugs", but I don't see this one
as a public service announcement.

As far as "cool", I think it would be cool if he had an airplane "parked" in
his yard. "Pilot lands safely in residence front yard, no reported
injuries." Yeah, you loose the gore factor, but you raise allot less
questions about your motive.

Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/101806_halloween
>
> I can't decide...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the reason
> that he takes a form of public transportation that most people trust the
> representatives of that company with their lives and then says "this is what
> can happen to you if you fly".

Now you understand my question.

Personally, I can't decide whether I'm being hypersensitive to this, as
a pilot who has grown skittish about public scorn toward aviation, or
whether it really IS sick -- but I think it's sick, too.

On the other hand, I find most of the "hand sticking up out of the
ground" Halloween/grave-yard stuff to be sick, so maybe it's just me?
I've got plenty of friends who have gone to great lengths to scare
people, under the guise of "it's only Halloween"...which I find goofy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

I think this is a different kind of sick than the hand up out of the grave
yard type stuff. Even the screwballs walking around with fake hatchets in
their heads and fake blood dripping down their faces doesn't bother me...
sick? yep... but in a erie spooky kind of way where everything is anonymous
and we all know that the chances of that happening to us or those we know
are way below minimal.

On the other hand, we all fly. All of our families fly. All of our friends
fly. We all accept a certain amount of risk whenever we get aboard an
airplane, but we also feel a large amount of trust in the airline, the
pilot, the company, and the "system". I get the feeling that this guy is
saying that it could happen to any of us and that we shouldn't trust
something or somebody in aviation. It seems that he's saying that once we
get on that plane we no longer hold our fate in our hands and we simply
can't pull over and get out, which of course is true, but to victimize the
vulnerable isn't a Halloween joke, it's a perverse and weird kind of sick.
In a way, I think these are the same reasons that the media take such
perverse pleasure in exploiting every plane crash to the maximum.


Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> > Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the
reason
> > that he takes a form of public transportation that most people trust the
> > representatives of that company with their lives and then says "this is
what
> > can happen to you if you fly".
>
> Now you understand my question.
>
> Personally, I can't decide whether I'm being hypersensitive to this, as
> a pilot who has grown skittish about public scorn toward aviation, or
> whether it really IS sick -- but I think it's sick, too.
>
> On the other hand, I find most of the "hand sticking up out of the
> ground" Halloween/grave-yard stuff to be sick, so maybe it's just me?
> I've got plenty of friends who have gone to great lengths to scare
> people, under the guise of "it's only Halloween"...which I find goofy.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[gatt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the
>> reason
>> that he takes a form of public transportation that most people trust the
>> representatives of that company with their lives and then says "this is
>> what
>> can happen to you if you fly".
>
> Now you understand my question.

I think it was more of a case of a guy who had some plane wreckage and a
really cool idea and didn't even bother to think through all of those
issues.
Unless he, say, read the usenet and was aware of all the different hangups
people have, it might not have ever occured to him. Halloween as millions of
people celebrate it is ABOUT creeping people out; mocking death, the devil,
things that scare us, whatever.

Most horror movies are about innocent people--women and teenagers,
mainly--being terrorized, tortured, murdered and hacked up in all sorts of
sadistic ways. Teenagers--the ones most often portrayed as the victims--eat
the stuff up. There's generally not much discussion of whether the director
had a grudge against kids or some other ulterior motive.

I forwarded the photo to a friend of mine who did a very similar thing with
some various junk, except instead of a plane wreck he had a UFO crash and
dead aliens scattered in his yard. Much better idea and far less likely to
offend. -c

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

> I forwarded the photo to a friend of mine who did a very similar thing
with
> some various junk, except instead of a plane wreck he had a UFO crash and
> dead aliens scattered in his yard. Much better idea and far less likely
to
> offend. -c

Now THAT is a more cool idea. Nobody has much sympathy for aliens.

Jim

[Peter Duniho]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe I'm reading way too much into it, but I'm wondering what message
> he's
> trying to send.
>
> As an A&P

"As an A&P"? Who is an A&P? You? Or the guy who made the Halloween
display?

> is he saying flying isn't safe due to poor maintenance?

No.

> Is he trying to say to passengers "you have no control, you should feel
> vulnerable when you fly?"

No.

> Is he trying to raise public awareness of some safety issue?

No.

> Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the
> reason
> that he takes a form of public transportation that most people trust the
> representatives of that company with their lives and then says "this is
> what
> can happen to you if you fly".

It *can* happen to you if you fly. But even if it couldn't, so what? I see
lots of stuff during Halloween that isn't possible.

> I understand Halloween displays that say "this is what can happen if you
> drink and drive" or "this is your brain on drugs",

You do? I have never seen a Halloween display made with that intent.
Perhaps you could point me to a few so we can understand what you mean.

> but I don't see this one as a public service announcement.

I've never seen a Halloween display intended as a PSA.

> As far as "cool", I think it would be cool if he had an airplane "parked"
> in
> his yard. "Pilot lands safely in residence front yard, no reported
> injuries." Yeah, you loose the gore factor, but you raise allot less
> questions about your motive.

Uh...well, an airplane safely parked in the front yard wouldn't have
anything to do with Halloween. The "gore factor" is the whole point.

You DO understand what Halloween celebrates, don't you? Your post implies
that you don't.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/101806_halloween
>
> I can't decide...

Firstly, you need to get with the times. These days, "cool" and "sick" are
synonyms. :)

Seriously though, I think the display fits right in with the spirit of
Halloween, and see it as no more "sick" than any other Halloween display.
It definitely qualifies for "cool" with respect to the effort and care put
into creating it. The question of "sick" is in the eye of the beholder. If
you don't care for Halloween generally, then I suppose you wouldn't care for
the display either.

But that's more about one's opinion of Halloween than it is about that
specific display. In the context of Halloween, I see nothing wrong with the
display.

Pete

[mike regish]

It would be even neater if they could kid-proof it so kids could go through
it.

But, IMO, it's pretty cool.

mike

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/101806_halloween
>>
>> I can't decide...
>
> Firstly, you need to get with the times. These days, "cool" and "sick"
> are synonyms. :)
>
> Seriously though, I think the display fits right in with the spirit of
> Halloween, and see it as no more "sick" than any other Halloween display.
> It definitely qualifies for "cool" with respect to the effort and care put
> into creating it. The question of "sick" is in the eye of the beholder.
> If you don't care for Halloween generally, then I suppose you wouldn't
> care for the display either.
>
> But that's more about one's opinion of Halloween than it is about that
> specific display. In the context of Halloween, I see nothing wrong with
> the display.
>
> Pete
>

[Peter Dohm]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
-----------much snipping-------------
>
> You DO understand what Halloween celebrates, don't you? Your post implies
> that you don't.
>
> Pete
>
>
Actually, that's a very good point; because I am not at all sure what
Halloween now celebrates.

OTOH, I do know what it did celebrate. As a refresher, at the time of the
conversion from paganism Christianity in Europe, Halloween (All Hallows
'een) was a costume festival held on the evening before All Saints Day.
People dressed up to represent the old pagan deities, who were then fed
(given food) to appease then for the comming year.

Therefore, most of the costumes of mythical characters are not too far
afield.

But the guy with the plane crash scene is just plain wrong; and I have
nothing kind to say about PSA displays at Halloween either.

Peter

[Judah]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
ups.com:

>> Since I can't figure it out, I'll stand on the side of "sick" for the
>> reason that he takes a form of public transportation that most people
>> trust the representatives of that company with their lives and then
>> says "this is what can happen to you if you fly".
>
> Now you understand my question.
>
> Personally, I can't decide whether I'm being hypersensitive to this, as
> a pilot who has grown skittish about public scorn toward aviation, or
> whether it really IS sick -- but I think it's sick, too.
>
> On the other hand, I find most of the "hand sticking up out of the
> ground" Halloween/grave-yard stuff to be sick, so maybe it's just me?
> I've got plenty of friends who have gone to great lengths to scare
> people, under the guise of "it's only Halloween"...which I find goofy.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

On the one hand, it doesn't really bother me. Plane crashes are a reality
of life, and I really don't think his message is to promote anti-aviation
sentiment. He made his version of a haunted house out of the parts that he
had readily available.

Admittedly, I didn't think it was all that cool either, though. Scrapyard
planes on the ground don't get me all that excited...

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 23 Oct 2006 13:14:09 -0700, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/101806_halloween
>
> I can't decide...

I have enough old airplane parts to make a pretty realistic crash scene. Been
tempted to pull an April Fools joke by splaying them out in the back yard and
waiting until a traffic chopper happens by. Then I figure there's probably SOME
obscure law against it....

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

> Admittedly, I didn't think it was all that cool either, though. Scrapyard
> planes on the ground don't get me all that excited...

but a Gulfstream 5 is a lot cooler than a 172. If he wanted to be
really scary he coulda just put a Piper Traumahawk in his front yard.

[Jose[_1_]]

> Cool or sick?

Neither. Just not very good, nor really fitting for the theme of
Halloween. Halloween is about ghosts, ghouls, witches on brooms,
spiders, and weird icky creatures. It's not really steeped in reality,
but in a visceral sense of what we dread.

His example is steeped in reality (in the sense that we really do fly on
airplanes, but don't fly on brooms). This removes it from the ghostly
sense of Halloween - it's like breaking the fourth wall in the theater.

Consider the difference between setting up a ghoulish multple
axe-murderer scene, and setting up an ordinary crime scene where a
murder took place. Although both are =possible= in real life, the
latter one, being more commonplace, is more "steeped in reality" (and
thus less viscerally fearful), and the former one, although things like
that have happened, is so far "out there" that it reaches for the
visceral sense of horror.

Now, if he had a few witches on brooms crashed into trees, being pursued
by a ghost in a C-172, which also crashed into a tree, that would work.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
> ...
> -----------much snipping-------------
>>
>> You DO understand what Halloween celebrates, don't you? Your post
>> implies
>> that you don't.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
> Actually, that's a very good point; because I am not at all sure what
> Halloween now celebrates.

Halloween today is a reason to have a party that has an overall Horror
theme. Just like St. Patrick's Day is a day to have a party with a green or
Irish theme and Super Sunday is a day to have a party with a football theme.

[Kingfish]

Jose wrote:
> > Cool or sick?
>
> Neither. Just not very good, nor really fitting for the theme of
> Halloween. Halloween is about ghosts, ghouls, witches on brooms,
> spiders, and weird icky creatures. It's not really steeped in reality,
> but in a visceral sense of what we dread.

How about just in poor taste? I don't like to see stuff like this
because it makes light of a horrible situation, that unfortunately
happens all too often. Jim may have read into the display's intent a
little too far, just like Peter D's deconstructing the meaning of
Halloween in his rebuttal. I'm just not comfortable with what I see as
sensationalizing something as terrible as a jet crash. Some things
shouldn't be taken lightly IMO.

> Now, if he had a few witches on brooms crashed into trees, being pursued
> by a ghost in a C-172, which also crashed into a tree, that would work.

Or, an effigy of a certain Chicago mayor on a broom being chased by
armed Skyhawks... aviation-themed humor at its best

[Peter Duniho]

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> [...] I'm just not comfortable with what I see as
> sensationalizing something as terrible as a jet crash. Some things
> shouldn't be taken lightly IMO.

Some people take very seriously the possibility of being doomed to an
eternity of walking the planet as an undead construct, sent neither to hell
nor heaven. These people are not comfortable with Halloween celebrations
that sensationalize or take lightly that possibility.

Perhaps we should eliminate Halloween altogether, to ensure that we avoid
offending anyone who is uncomfortable with terrible things being portrayed,
lightly or otherwise.

Pete

[Guy Elden Jr]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Personally, I can't decide whether I'm being hypersensitive to this, as
> a pilot who has grown skittish about public scorn toward aviation, or
> whether it really IS sick -- but I think it's sick, too.
>
> On the other hand, I find most of the "hand sticking up out of the
> ground" Halloween/grave-yard stuff to be sick, so maybe it's just me?
> I've got plenty of friends who have gone to great lengths to scare
> people, under the guise of "it's only Halloween"...which I find goofy.

I personally am not offended, but that's mainly because it would take
an awful lot to offend me. As far as whether or not one can use
Halloween as an excuse for goofy displays like this, well, it sure as
heck beats all these displays I've noticed this year that put some of
the Christmas displays to shame... lit up, animatronics, figurines,
fake spider webs, the list goes on and on... and these are just the
houses I see on my normal commute every day. I can only imagine how
overboard the general populace is in the rest of the country when it
comes to Halloween. That's probably the scariest part of the holiday!
:)

--
Guy

[Kingfish]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> Some people take very seriously the possibility of being doomed to an
> eternity of walking the planet as an undead construct, sent neither to hell
> nor heaven. These people are not comfortable with Halloween celebrations
> that sensationalize or take lightly that possibility.

For those fringe elements of society, I sympathize. I'm not seeing the
relevance here, though. Jay's original premise was that he wasn't sure
if he approved or disapproved of the G3 crash display. To me, that
display hits a lot closer to home than the typical cheesy Halloween
display with ghosts & witches etc.

>
> Perhaps we should eliminate Halloween altogether, to ensure that we avoid
> offending anyone who is uncomfortable with terrible things being portrayed,
> lightly or otherwise.

Your patronizing tone aside, the suggestion is absurd. I never said I
found the crash scene offensive, just in poor taste. Maybe I assume too
much when I assume most pilots (like yourself) would also find it
tasteless.

[Jose[_1_]]

> How about just in poor taste? I don't like to see stuff like this
> because it makes light of a horrible situation...

Well, yes, a horrible situation that does happen often enough (thus my
point about "steeped in reality").

> Or, an effigy of a certain Chicago mayor on a broom being chased by
> armed Skyhawks... aviation-themed humor at its best

Now =that= is in good taste. :)

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Dohm]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> > Admittedly, I didn't think it was all that cool either, though.
Scrapyard
> > planes on the ground don't get me all that excited...
>
> but a Gulfstream 5 is a lot cooler than a 172. If he wanted to be
> really scary he coulda just put a Piper Traumahawk in his front yard.
>
Oh Man!

I remember the Tomahawk rether fondly--except for the anemic angle of climb.

Peter

[Peter Dohm]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Kingfish" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > [...] I'm just not comfortable with what I see as
> > sensationalizing something as terrible as a jet crash. Some things
> > shouldn't be taken lightly IMO.
>
> Some people take very seriously the possibility of being doomed to an
> eternity of walking the planet as an undead construct, sent neither to
hell
> nor heaven. These people are not comfortable with Halloween celebrations
> that sensationalize or take lightly that possibility.
>
> Perhaps we should eliminate Halloween altogether, to ensure that we avoid
> offending anyone who is uncomfortable with terrible things being
portrayed,
> lightly or otherwise.
>
> Pete
>
>
I think that Kingfish was referring to my post regarding the origin of
Halloween.

Personally, I'd be satisfied if we just spent less on it. IMOH, Halloween
just doesn't justify two months of preparation--for those of us not in the
Carnival biz.

Peter

[Peter Duniho]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
. ..
> Personally, I'd be satisfied if we just spent less on it. IMOH, Halloween
> just doesn't justify two months of preparation--for those of us not in the
> Carnival biz.

None of our holidays do. All of the major holidays, and most of the minor
ones, have been turned into enormous marketing sieges, designed to maximize
public consumption of goods we don't really need.

That's one of the reasons that, at least from a creativity and personal
effort points of view, the display in question actually scores relatively
high on the "cool" scale. Most people's approach to "celebration" of a
holiday is to waste a significant amount of money on the same crap everyone
else is wasting their money on. At least these guys did something
different.

I don't see the post right now, but I believe someone else mentioned all the
lighted Christmas yard decorations. I've had about as much of the same trio
of reindeer, snowmen, and Santa Claus wire "sculpture" with Christmas lights
on them as I can stand. What a waste...I mean, if you're going to do a
public display, at least put some *thought* into it, rather than just
following lemming-like into the pit of wasted money and materials.

And that's about as short as I can make that rant. Be thankful (in about a
month :) ) that I didn't say *everything* on that topic that I could think
of to say. :)

Pete

[Peter Dohm]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Personally, I'd be satisfied if we just spent less on it. IMOH,
Halloween
> > just doesn't justify two months of preparation--for those of us not in
the
> > Carnival biz.
>
> None of our holidays do. All of the major holidays, and most of the minor
> ones, have been turned into enormous marketing sieges, designed to
maximize
> public consumption of goods we don't really need.
>
> That's one of the reasons that, at least from a creativity and personal
> effort points of view, the display in question actually scores relatively
> high on the "cool" scale. Most people's approach to "celebration" of a
> holiday is to waste a significant amount of money on the same crap
everyone
> else is wasting their money on. At least these guys did something
> different.
>
> I don't see the post right now, but I believe someone else mentioned all
the
> lighted Christmas yard decorations. I've had about as much of the same
trio
> of reindeer, snowmen, and Santa Claus wire "sculpture" with Christmas
lights
> on them as I can stand. What a waste...I mean, if you're going to do a
> public display, at least put some *thought* into it, rather than just
> following lemming-like into the pit of wasted money and materials.
>
> And that's about as short as I can make that rant. Be thankful (in about
a
> month :) ) that I didn't say *everything* on that topic that I could think
> of to say. :)
>
> Pete
>
>
I really don't like the plane crash theme.

Still, all of your points are well taken.

Peter

[LWG]

But, speaking as a single father, I can tell you the great thing about
Halloween, and what makes it my favorite time of year, is that cobwebs are
socially acceptable.

>> Personally, I'd be satisfied if we just spent less on it. IMOH,
>> Halloween
>> just doesn't justify two months of preparation--for those of us not in
>> the
>> Carnival biz.
>

[Jose[_1_]]

> I remember the Tomahawk rether fondly--except for the anemic angle of climb.

I learned in a Tomahawk, and then tried a 150. Talk about anemic...

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> I don't see the post right now, but I believe someone else mentioned all
the
> lighted Christmas yard decorations. I've had about as much of the same
trio
> of reindeer, snowmen, and Santa Claus wire "sculpture" with Christmas
lights
> on them as I can stand. What a waste...I mean, if you're going to do a
> public display, at least put some *thought* into it, rather than just
> following lemming-like into the pit of wasted money and materials.

Nawh, just throw some of the small lights up in the bushes... They're not
visibile when they're not lit, so if you forget to take them down until
March, no one will notice... Plus, if you use the white ones, they just look
like landscape lighting... Oh, you might want to take them down before you
decide to trim your bushes with a hedge trimmer...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. net...
> Now, if he had a few witches on brooms crashed into trees, being pursued
> by a ghost in a C-172, which also crashed into a tree, that would work.

Nawh, a witch on a broom being sucked into a jet intake or impaled through
the windshield... Maybe label the aircraft "Transylvania Air"...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> Halloween today is a reason to have a party that has an overall Horror
> theme. Just like St. Patrick's Day is a day to have a party with a green
or
> Irish theme

Damn, I thought it was just an excuse to be able to serve green beer...

[Philip S.]

in article , Peter Duniho at
wrote on 10/24/06 10:47 AM:

> "Kingfish" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> [...] I'm just not comfortable with what I see as
>> sensationalizing something as terrible as a jet crash. Some things
>> shouldn't be taken lightly IMO.
>
> Some people take very seriously the possibility of being doomed to an
> eternity of walking the planet as an undead construct, sent neither to hell
> nor heaven. These people are not comfortable with Halloween celebrations
> that sensationalize or take lightly that possibility.
>
> Perhaps we should eliminate Halloween altogether, to ensure that we avoid
> offending anyone who is uncomfortable with terrible things being portrayed,
> lightly or otherwise.
>
> Pete

It's helpful to look at how other cultures celebrate death. In Mexico they
have "The Day of the Dead", wherein Mexicans put on costumes so macabre that
they make our own get-ups look quaint by comparison. In Britain they have
"Guy Fawkes Day", wherein children go door to door collecting pennies to
construct a "Guy", a dummy that they burn in effigy (Fawkes was actually
hanged, but whatever, think of what they're recreating).

In America, by contrast, children mostly dress as superheroes, princesses
and Disney characters, their sole aim being to stuff as much candy into
their mouths as they can possibly get away with. In this context, I find the
display in question to be missing the spirit of the occasion. Not that I'd
deny them the right to have it.