Tomcat in Air and Space Museum

[DDAY]

I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
shot down a MiG in 1989.

Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?

Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
few weeks ago.



D

[Bob McKellar]

"DDAY" > wrote in message
link.net...
>I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one
> that
> shot down a MiG in 1989.
>
> Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
>
> Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> few weeks ago.
>
>
>
> D

Due to the recent retirement of the type, things are very much in flux. For
example, Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston has been allocated one, but is
having trouble raising the money for transporting and preserving it.

http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/presf.htm (Scroll down)
http://www.f-14association.com/display.htm
http://www.tomcat-sunset/ (Link is intermittent - keep trying)

Bob McKellar

[Jeb Hoge]

Bob McKellar wrote:
> "DDAY" > wrote in message
> link.net...

> > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> > few weeks ago.
>
> Due to the recent retirement of the type, things are very much in flux. For
> example, Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston has been allocated one, but is
> having trouble raising the money for transporting and preserving it.
>
> http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/presf.htm (Scroll down)
> http://www.f-14association.com/display.htm
> http://www.tomcat-sunset/ (Link is intermittent - keep trying)

One is at the Virginia Aviation Museum at Richmond International
Airport, but I haven't actually seen the jet. It was flown there from
Oceana, though, so it's definitely on-site.

[Methos]

"Jeb Hoge" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Bob McKellar wrote:
> > "DDAY" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
>
> > > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in
Kalamazoo a
> > > few weeks ago.
> >
> > Due to the recent retirement of the type, things are very much in flux.
For
> > example, Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston has been allocated one,
but is
> > having trouble raising the money for transporting and preserving it.
> >
> > http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/presf.htm (Scroll down)
> > http://www.f-14association.com/display.htm
> > http://www.tomcat-sunset/ (Link is intermittent - keep trying)
>
> One is at the Virginia Aviation Museum at Richmond International
> Airport, but I haven't actually seen the jet. It was flown there from
> Oceana, though, so it's definitely on-site.


There is also one at a "warbird" museum in Florida, I forget
precisely where, believe it was near Daytona Beach. It was from
the JFK if I recall.

It was placed next to an old J-3 Cub or similar single seat
plane from that era - an interesting contrast to say the least.

Does anyone know what the procedure is to acquire a retired
Tomcat ? can i just open up my own warbird museum ? (and are
they de-milled ? if so, how ?)

[[email protected]]

DDAY wrote:
> I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
> shot down a MiG in 1989.
>
> Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
>
> Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> few weeks ago.
>
>
>
> D

Not a fan of the Turkey(I have over 1000 hrs in them), think they are
best when on a 'stick' somewhere....

[Gordon[_1_]]

wrote:
> DDAY wrote:
> > I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> > Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> > F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
> > shot down a MiG in 1989.
> >
> > Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
> >
> > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> > few weeks ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > D
>
> Not a fan of the Turkey(I have over 1000 hrs in them), think they are
> best when on a 'stick' somewhere....

You prefer Bugs?? First time I have seen someone not like their a/c.
Personally, I hate the idea of an all- Effay Teen airwing - I keep
waiting to see one with a rotodome! I understand all the reasons why
it makes sense, but I just can't get over the decision to not re-wing
the Intruders to keep a true bomb-truck in the arsenal.

Were you flying them back when they were powered by the first anemic
firetrap engines? (That would certainly explain it)

Oh, and we have one of them at the Gillespie Field Annex to our San
Diego Air & Space Museum.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C)====>
(my experience with the Turkey is participating in two at-sea rescues
in 1980, a Pukin Dawg and a Ghostrider).

[[email protected]]

Gordon wrote:
> wrote:
> > DDAY wrote:
> > > I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> > > Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> > > F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
> > > shot down a MiG in 1989.
> > >
> > > Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
> > >
> > > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> > > few weeks ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > D
> >
> > Not a fan of the Turkey(I have over 1000 hrs in them), think they are
> > best when on a 'stick' somewhere....
>
> You prefer Bugs?? First time I have seen someone not like their a/c.

'My' aircraft was the F-4...

> Personally, I hate the idea of an all- Effay Teen airwing - I keep
> waiting to see one with a rotodome! I understand all the reasons why
> it makes sense, but I just can't get over the decision to not re-wing
> the Intruders to keep a true bomb-truck in the arsenal.
>
> Were you flying them back when they were powered by the first anemic
> firetrap engines? (That would certainly explain it)

I was flying them with the crappy flight controls, crappy engines,
crappy CADC...etc...
I flew the F-14A+ in VX-4..nice engines, crappy avionics. I saw the
F-14D...was in the planning for the cockpit...and it sucked compared to
the analog F-16N I flew...

>
> Oh, and we have one of them at the Gillespie Field Annex to our San
> Diego Air & Space Museum.
>
> v/r
> Gordon
> <====(A+C)====>
> (my experience with the Turkey is participating in two at-sea rescues
> in 1980, a Pukin Dawg and a Ghostrider).

[Harry Andreas]

In article om>,
wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > DDAY wrote:
> > > > I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air
and Space
> > > > Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> > > > F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is
one that
> > > > shot down a MiG in 1989.
> > > >
> > > > Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
> > > >
> > > > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in
Kalamazoo a
> > > > few weeks ago.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > D
> > >
> > > Not a fan of the Turkey(I have over 1000 hrs in them), think they are
> > > best when on a 'stick' somewhere....
> >
> > You prefer Bugs?? First time I have seen someone not like their a/c.
>
> 'My' aircraft was the F-4...
>
> > Personally, I hate the idea of an all- Effay Teen airwing - I keep
> > waiting to see one with a rotodome! I understand all the reasons why
> > it makes sense, but I just can't get over the decision to not re-wing
> > the Intruders to keep a true bomb-truck in the arsenal.
> >
> > Were you flying them back when they were powered by the first anemic
> > firetrap engines? (That would certainly explain it)
>
> I was flying them with the crappy flight controls, crappy engines,
> crappy CADC...etc...
> I flew the F-14A+ in VX-4..nice engines, crappy avionics. I saw the
> F-14D...was in the planning for the cockpit...and it sucked compared to
> the analog F-16N I flew...

unless you need to fire a missile...

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

[[email protected]]

Harry Andreas wrote:
> In article om>,
> wrote:
>
> > Gordon wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > > > DDAY wrote:
> > > > > I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air
> and Space
> > > > > Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> > > > > F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is
> one that
> > > > > shot down a MiG in 1989.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in
> Kalamazoo a
> > > > > few weeks ago.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > D
> > > >
> > > > Not a fan of the Turkey(I have over 1000 hrs in them), think they are
> > > > best when on a 'stick' somewhere....
> > >
> > > You prefer Bugs?? First time I have seen someone not like their a/c.
> >
> > 'My' aircraft was the F-4...
> >
> > > Personally, I hate the idea of an all- Effay Teen airwing - I keep
> > > waiting to see one with a rotodome! I understand all the reasons why
> > > it makes sense, but I just can't get over the decision to not re-wing
> > > the Intruders to keep a true bomb-truck in the arsenal.
> > >
> > > Were you flying them back when they were powered by the first anemic
> > > firetrap engines? (That would certainly explain it)
> >
> > I was flying them with the crappy flight controls, crappy engines,
> > crappy CADC...etc...
> > I flew the F-14A+ in VX-4..nice engines, crappy avionics. I saw the
> > F-14D...was in the planning for the cockpit...and it sucked compared to
> > the analog F-16N I flew...
>
> unless you need to fire a missile...
>
> --
> Harry Andreas
> Engineering raconteur

???Don't know what you mean? F-16N had all the plumbing for
Aim-9...even tho they were training aides only...just like the first
gen F-16....

[Harry Andreas]

In article om>,
wrote:

> > > I was flying them with the crappy flight controls, crappy engines,
> > > crappy CADC...etc...
> > > I flew the F-14A+ in VX-4..nice engines, crappy avionics. I saw the
> > > F-14D...was in the planning for the cockpit...and it sucked compared to
> > > the analog F-16N I flew...
> >
> > unless you need to fire a missile...
> >
> > --
> > Harry Andreas
> > Engineering raconteur
>
> ???Don't know what you mean? F-16N had all the plumbing for
> Aim-9...even tho they were training aides only...just like the first
> gen F-16....

I worked on the radars for the various versions of the F-14.
I've also observed the F-16's radar (N was a Block 30 IIRC)
with the APG-66 was pretty woeful compared to the AWG-9 or
APG-71.
There's just no comparison.
The radar is part of the Avionics suite BTW...

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

[[email protected]]

Harry Andreas wrote:
> In article om>,
> wrote:
>
> > > > I was flying them with the crappy flight controls, crappy engines,
> > > > crappy CADC...etc...
> > > > I flew the F-14A+ in VX-4..nice engines, crappy avionics. I saw the
> > > > F-14D...was in the planning for the cockpit...and it sucked compared to
> > > > the analog F-16N I flew...
> > >
> > > unless you need to fire a missile...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Harry Andreas
> > > Engineering raconteur
> >
> > ???Don't know what you mean? F-16N had all the plumbing for
> > Aim-9...even tho they were training aides only...just like the first
> > gen F-16....
>
> I worked on the radars for the various versions of the F-14.
> I've also observed the F-16's radar (N was a Block 30 IIRC)
> with the APG-66 was pretty woeful compared to the AWG-9 or
> APG-71.
> There's just no comparison.
> The radar is part of the Avionics suite BTW...
>
> --
> Harry Andreas
> Engineering raconteur

Except when the fookin radar didn't work, it didn't matter how good it
was on paper. In the 12 months I flew the F-16, I launched w/o a radar
exactly ZERO times, in about 450 hrs...I had a radar fail once in that
time. It was standard to launch off the boat(VF-31, USS Forrestal) w/o
a stinkin radar about 30 days into the cruise. I saw better radar
availability with the F-4S(Awg-10) than I EVER did with the
AWG-9...APG-71 had MUCH better availability than the HAWG-9....The
inspired by the A-6, designed in the late 60s, F-14, never to be
modified in the 2 decades it existed, was an embarrassment when
compared to aircraft like the F-16C and F-15C/E....even the 'D'
model...too little too late. If the F-14A became the 'C' model like it
was supposed to, along the lines of USAF and now F-18 A/C, the F-18F
wouldn't exist.

[John Carrier]

> Except when the fookin radar didn't work, it didn't matter how good it
> was on paper. In the 12 months I flew the F-16, I launched w/o a radar
> exactly ZERO times, in about 450 hrs...I had a radar fail once in that
> time. It was standard to launch off the boat(VF-31, USS Forrestal) w/o
> a stinkin radar about 30 days into the cruise. I saw better radar
> availability with the F-4S(Awg-10) than I EVER did with the
> AWG-9...APG-71 had MUCH better availability than the HAWG-9....The
> inspired by the A-6, designed in the late 60s, F-14, never to be
> modified in the 2 decades it existed, was an embarrassment when
> compared to aircraft like the F-16C and F-15C/E....even the 'D'
> model...too little too late. If the F-14A became the 'C' model like it
> was supposed to, along the lines of USAF and now F-18 A/C, the F-18F
> wouldn't exist.

For whatever reason, the F-14 seemed to be the red-haired stepchild when it
came to system upgrades. The engines were late (the F-14B was supposed to
come along with roughly airframe 49). WCS got the minimum incremental
upgrades in software (tape driven for God's sake!). Never got AAMRAM. A
lot of program managers are wearing the legion of merit when they should be
reading letters of reprimand.

The F-15 is a nice example of how to manage an airframe. The Turkey an
example on how to neglect one.

R / John

[[email protected]]

John Carrier wrote:
> > Except when the fookin radar didn't work, it didn't matter how good it
> > was on paper. In the 12 months I flew the F-16, I launched w/o a radar
> > exactly ZERO times, in about 450 hrs...I had a radar fail once in that
> > time. It was standard to launch off the boat(VF-31, USS Forrestal) w/o
> > a stinkin radar about 30 days into the cruise. I saw better radar
> > availability with the F-4S(Awg-10) than I EVER did with the
> > AWG-9...APG-71 had MUCH better availability than the HAWG-9....The
> > inspired by the A-6, designed in the late 60s, F-14, never to be
> > modified in the 2 decades it existed, was an embarrassment when
> > compared to aircraft like the F-16C and F-15C/E....even the 'D'
> > model...too little too late. If the F-14A became the 'C' model like it
> > was supposed to, along the lines of USAF and now F-18 A/C, the F-18F
> > wouldn't exist.
>
> For whatever reason, the F-14 seemed to be the red-haired stepchild when it
> came to system upgrades. The engines were late (the F-14B was supposed to
> come along with roughly airframe 49). WCS got the minimum incremental
> upgrades in software (tape driven for God's sake!). Never got AAMRAM. A
> lot of program managers are wearing the legion of merit when they should be
> reading letters of reprimand.
>
> The F-15 is a nice example of how to manage an airframe. The Turkey an
> example on how to neglect one.
>
> R / John

HEAR, HEAR....Geeezzz, we saw the F-4J become the F-4S fercrissake,
with more mods(smokless engines, 1527 cockpit mod, new wings!!! with
slats, AWG-10B), than the F-14 got while the F-14 had been around for
15 years!!

[[email protected]]

DDAY wrote:
> I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
> shot down a MiG in 1989.
>
> Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
>
> Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> few weeks ago.

I know that there an F-14B at the New England Air Museum in Windsor
Locks, CT, and an A model at the National Warplane Museum in Elmira,
NY. I believe the NEAM bird is former VF-143, but I don't know the
provenance of the other aircraft.

-JTD

[Gordon[_1_]]

wrote:
> DDAY wrote:
> > I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
> > Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
> > F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
> > shot down a MiG in 1989.
> >
> > Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
> >
> > Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
> > few weeks ago.
>
> I know that there an F-14B at the New England Air Museum in Windsor
> Locks, CT, and an A model at the National Warplane Museum in Elmira,
> NY. I believe the NEAM bird is former VF-143, but I don't know the
> provenance of the other aircraft.

Is it painted as a "Sans Reproache" or a "Pukin' Dawg"?

v/r Gordon

[DDAY]

----------
In article om>,
wrote:

>> I was out at the Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy annex of the National Air and Space
>> Museum today (near Dulles airport) and saw their newest acquisition: an
>> F-14D Tomcat. This is one of the remanufactured F-14As, and it is one that
>> shot down a MiG in 1989.
>>
>> Oddly, it does not have a MiG silhouette painted on it. Any idea why?
>>
>> Anybody have a list of the preserved Tomcats? I saw one up in Kalamazoo a
>> few weeks ago.
>
> I know that there an F-14B at the New England Air Museum in Windsor
> Locks, CT, and an A model at the National Warplane Museum in Elmira,
> NY. I believe the NEAM bird is former VF-143, but I don't know the
> provenance of the other aircraft.

I've now seen several more. The Ronald Reagan Library has one. The USS
Midway museum has another. The San Diego Aerospace Museum has one. And I
think there are others on some of the other preserved carriers such as the
Intrepid.




D

[Tex Houston]

"DDAY" > wrote in message
k.net...
> I've now seen several more. The Ronald Reagan Library has one. The USS
> Midway museum has another. The San Diego Aerospace Museum has one. And I
> think there are others on some of the other preserved carriers such as the
> Intrepid.
>
>
>
>
> D

There is also one at Bob Pond's museum in Palm Springs. Static display only
but most of his other aircraft are flyable. Gorgeous F7F Tigercat.

Tex

[[email protected]]

DDAY wrote:
>
> I've now seen several more. The Ronald Reagan Library has one. The USS
> Midway museum has another. The San Diego Aerospace Museum has one. And I
> think there are others on some of the other preserved carriers such as the
> Intrepid.

Forgot that one! The Intrepid does indeed have a Tomcat. IIRC, it's
the prototype for the F-14D conversion.

[[email protected]]

Gordon wrote:
> wrote:
> > I know that there an F-14B at the New England Air Museum in Windsor
> > Locks, CT, and an A model at the National Warplane Museum in Elmira,
> > NY. I believe the NEAM bird is former VF-143, but I don't know the
> > provenance of the other aircraft.
>
> Is it painted as a "Sans Reproache" or a "Pukin' Dawg"?
>
> v/r Gordon

There was indeed a certain bent-over silhouette on the tailfin when I
looked it over a few months ago, and "Pukin' Dogs" painted on the wing
root. On that airframe, at least, the World Famous Pukin' Dogs live
on.

I think it may have been specially painted to go into the museum, now
that I think about it- it was in a light gray color scheme similar to
what the Tomcat wore when it first went into service, and was painted
with side number 143. Granted, it could be a coincidence, but it would
be a rather large one.

-JTD

[Gordon[_1_]]

wrote:
> There was indeed a certain bent-over silhouette on the tailfin when I
> looked it over a few months ago, and "Pukin' Dogs" painted on the wing
> root. On that airframe, at least, the World Famous Pukin' Dogs live
> on.
>
> I think it may have been specially painted to go into the museum, now
> that I think about it- it was in a light gray color scheme similar to
> what the Tomcat wore when it first went into service, and was painted
> with side number 143. Granted, it could be a coincidence, but it would
> be a rather large one.

But appropriate :) Thanks for the info - personally I am glad that
they kept a Dawg on display, they deserved it.

I loved it when CAG Needham almost landed on the Connie and his wingman
failed to notice he was "Roger ball"-ing the _wrong carrier_. By the
time they let the Tomcat come back to the Ike a few days later, it was
tagged repeatedly with "Lost Dawg" stencils!

v/r Gordon