Flight Sim CH yokes/pedals PIREP

[Jay Honeck]

Our new CH yoke and rudder pedals arrived yesterday, and I had a chance
to hook 'em up today. What a difference -- they literally change
everything about "flying" a PC-based sim!

Until now, flying MS Flight Sim '04 using the big screen projector at
the hotel has been cool, but, well, unreal. A joystick -- even a
force-feedback stick, like we used -- is simply a bad compromise when
you're trying to fly the pattern in a Skyhawk. And steering on the
ground by twisting the joystick aggravated every pilot who tried it.
(Interestingly, non-pilots had no trouble with it at all...)

Out of the box, the yoke and pedals seem to be very high quality. The
pedals in particular have a heft to them that connotes quality, and
they move very smoothly, seemingly on ball bearings. Hooking them up
could not have been easier -- I plugged them into their own USB ports,
and they instantly worked as advertised. Plug & play really *has*
arrived!

I've set the program to default to SEATAC in a 172, so that was my
first attempt. To my surprise, everything worked precisely like in a
real plane, with the throttle, mixture, and flap controls all where
they belong. I did not need to make adjustments to any program
parameters -- each switch and rocker just worked from the get-go.
Finally, to my delight, the rudder pedals rocked forward (and the
program understood this), providing toe brakes EXACTLY like in the
plane. (I wasn't expecting this at all...)

My first circuit around the pattern was amazing, after years of flying
with a joystick. Steering on the ground was 100% intuitive, and
everything felt perfectly normal and real, including slipping to land.
With a 104 inch screen and surround sound (the sub-woofer makes it
sound almost perfect), the illusion of reality was remarkable, and
darned-near perfect.

My A&P is welding up a "cockpit" from tubing, using the electrically
adjustable seat out of my Mustang (I just installed leather in the car,
which left me with a surplus seat) as the starting point, which will
make the experience even *more* realistic once we permanently install
the yoke and pedals. For now, however, clamping the yoke to a table is
working just fine.

If anyone has entertained the notion of doing something like this, I
can highly recommend it. The $179 I paid for both controls (that's
together, not apiece) is well worth it, as I believe that the flight
simulator experience is now truly "as real as it gets" outside of
actually flying an airplane. I can hardly wait for our next Movie
Night at the Inn to put the new equipment to the test!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article om>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

[snipperoo]
> My A&P is welding up a "cockpit" from tubing, using the electrically
> adjustable seat out of my Mustang (I just installed leather in the car,
> which left me with a surplus seat) as the starting point, which will
> make the experience even *more* realistic once we permanently install
> the yoke and pedals. For now, however, clamping the yoke to a table is
> working just fine.

Don't make it too nice, or people will get a little put off when climbing
into a beat-up rental for real flying. Maybe make the seat dirty and
have extra papers and candy wrappers here and there...

(btw - how does leather create a surplus seat????)

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Jay Honeck]

> (btw - how does leather create a surplus seat????)

The leather seats were out of an '02 Mustang convertible that was
totalled in a wreck. Found 'em on Ebay for just $175 bucks!

My 16-year old son (who desperately would love a car of his own) has
taken the other (non-electric) front seat, attached 2 x 4s to the
bottom, and converted it into a reading chair in his bed room. We kid
him that he's building his own car, one piece at a time!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article m>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > (btw - how does leather create a surplus seat????)
>
> The leather seats were out of an '02 Mustang convertible that was
> totalled in a wreck. Found 'em on Ebay for just $175 bucks!

ah.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> Don't make it too nice, or people will get a little put off when climbing
> into a beat-up rental for real flying. Maybe make the seat dirty and
> have extra papers and candy wrappers here and there...

Well, you could use some of the cheaper seats that they sell for boats...
Something like this:
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=52426&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=74957&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

Hell, it's probably more comfortable than the seats in my aircraft come to
think of it...

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The pedals in particular have a heft to them that connotes quality,
> and they move very smoothly, seemingly on ball bearings.

If the casing comes off easily, you might take a look. There's a 50-50
chance you'll find steel strips in there that don't do anything but add
weight.

> My A&P is welding up a "cockpit" from tubing, using the electrically
> adjustable seat out of my Mustang (I just installed leather in the car,
> which left me with a surplus seat) as the starting point, which will
> make the experience even *more* realistic once we permanently install
> the yoke and pedals.

If you're not using an actual car battery, you'll probably need a pretty
beefy power supply to adjust the seat with. Power seats in cars often
have a 20 A or more breaker. One cheaper way to do it without a full car
battery would be a 5 to 10 Ah/20h gel-cell battery, continuously charged
by a wall-wart type charger. The battery can handle the brief bursts of
high current, as long as somebody doesn't sit down and try to adjust the
seat for 20 minutes straight.

Matt Roberds

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-10-27, > wrote:
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> The pedals in particular have a heft to them that connotes quality,
>> and they move very smoothly, seemingly on ball bearings.
>
> If the casing comes off easily, you might take a look. There's a 50-50
> chance you'll find steel strips in there that don't do anything but add
> weight.

ABSOLUTELY DO **NOT** TAKE APART THE PEDALS. Ask me how I know ;-)

I have the yoke and pedals as well, and I think I easily got my money's
worth in terms of practice (especially IFR) using them. The only major
objection I have is that trim does not work right (but that's true of
almost any type of joystick).

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Ben Jackson wrote:
> I have the yoke and pedals as well, and I think I easily got my money's
> worth in terms of practice (especially IFR) using them. The only major
> objection I have is that trim does not work right (but that's true of
> almost any type of joystick).


I've got the trim pretty well squared away now. My remaining complaint about
the pedals is that I'm all over the runway with them, even after setting the
sensitivity down to 10% of the default setting. I'm not really sure what to do
about that.

I do find the sim helps me keep a good scan going when I don't fly enough to do
it otherwise.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Jay Honeck]

> I have the yoke and pedals as well, and I think I easily got my money's
> worth in terms of practice (especially IFR) using them. The only major
> objection I have is that trim does not work right (but that's true of
> almost any type of joystick).

The trim on our new CH yoke seems to work just fine. It's a roller
knob, like the dimmer switch on a Cherokee panel, and is a vast
improvement over the keyboard-adjustable trim.

Aside from the obvious improvement in realism, I think what I'm most
impressed with is how everything simply works, straight out of the box.
I haven't had to assign any of the multitude of switches and buttons,
I haven't had to adjust any software -- hell, I haven't even CALIBRATED
the things. They just *worked* straight away -- which is unheard of,
in my experience. No software to run, no drivers to load -- they just
GO.

I've now let several pilots "fly" our new set up, and to a person they
are all impressed. Even Mary was able to land the plane successfully,
and she is as simulator-averse as anyone I've ever met.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

I have the CH rudder pedals, F-16 throttle and stick.
What I need is a custom seat to mount everything to for the total
experience. Sitting in an upright chair with the pedals on the floor and
the throttle and stick setting on the table just does not feel right.
Jay, please post a picture of your new "cockpit" when it is completed.

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

A couple months ago, during a visit to the EAA Museum at OSH, I peered
through the window into one of the behind the scenes construction rooms and
low and behold I saw a complete PC based sim stand with reclineable chair, 3
monitors, the CH yoke, pedals, and multi engine throttle quadrant. It
looked like it was constructed out of 3/4" square steel tubing that was bent
and welded into one complete unit with adjustable shelves and brackets for
everything. Pretty cool. Maybe someday we'll see it out on the floor in
the KidVenture Exhibit.
Jim

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> I have the CH rudder pedals, F-16 throttle and stick.
> What I need is a custom seat to mount everything to for the total
> experience. Sitting in an upright chair with the pedals on the floor and
> the throttle and stick setting on the table just does not feel right.
> Jay, please post a picture of your new "cockpit" when it is completed.

[Jay Honeck]

> If you're not using an actual car battery, you'll probably need a pretty
> beefy power supply to adjust the seat with.

Got it! I don't even remember why I bought it, but I've got a power
supply that converts 110 volt AC to 12 volt DC, with more than enough
amps to power the seat.

My A&P was just here, measuring seat height and pedal placement. It's
gonna be cool!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Stefan]

john smith schrieb:

> What I need is a custom seat to mount everything to for the total
> experience.

Like this?
http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/Flugsimulator.jpg

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Possible sideline for your A&P? Build them so they can fold up or be easily
disassembled for shipping? He makes the frames, you bolt in your own used
seat from a junkyard.
Jim

>
> My A&P was just here, measuring seat height and pedal placement. It's
> gonna be cool!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Mxsmanic]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

> I've got the trim pretty well squared away now. My remaining complaint about
> the pedals is that I'm all over the runway with them, even after setting the
> sensitivity down to 10% of the default setting. I'm not really sure what to do
> about that.

MSFS doesn't actually decrease the sensitivity of the controls when
you reduce the sensitivity setting; instead, it increases the delay
before it acts upon any control movements. So the controls become a
bit more sluggish and you have more time to correct if you make an
inappropriate control movement before the control surfaces actually
react. But that's not the same as changing the actual sensitivity,
unfortunately. A given displacement of the control still produces the
same displacement of the control surface, no matter what the setting.
All you can change with sensitivity is how long it takes to reach that
point.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Kev]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Until now, flying MS Flight Sim '04 using the big screen projector at
> the hotel has been cool, but, well, unreal. A joystick -- even a
> force-feedback stick, like we used -- is simply a bad compromise

Yes, far better with yoke and rudder pedals with toe brakes.

To solve many of your sensitivity problems and be able to add all sorts
of cool things, be sure to get the #1 FS addon: FSUIPC:

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Next, order up your local scenery and better terrain from someone like:

http://www.pcaviator.com/megascenery/
http://portal.fsgenesis.net/

I can actually follow the roads and lakes around northern NJ on the
sim!

Personally, I use a sim to pre-plan flights (hey, look there's a ridge
I could use as a landmark, cool), practice instrument scan and
navigation (zoom yourself somewhere random and then try to find
yourself with VORs), and to keep fresh with flows. The last requires
you go a bit crazy and build radios, fuel, magneto, etc switches in
more or less the right spot to practice emergencies.

So here comes some radio links, which should make you drool a bit:

http://www.flyelite.com/hardware.php
http://www.goflightinc.com/order/index.php
http://sim.itra.de/default_en.htm
http://www.simkits.com/

Best, Kev

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Stefan" > wrote in message
...
> john smith schrieb:
>
>> What I need is a custom seat to mount everything to for the total experience.
>
> Like this?
> http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/Flugsimulator.jpg

Man, that is ...Scary! Is that your setup?

How do you link that many monitors (and computers?) to run off of one program?
--
Jim in NC

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:59:17 GMT, john smith > wrote:

> I have the CH rudder pedals, F-16 throttle and stick.
> What I need is a custom seat to mount everything to for the total
> experience. Sitting in an upright chair with the pedals on the floor and
> the throttle and stick setting on the table just does not feel right.

About 25 years ago, I went by Boeing Surplus and found a 727 co-pilot seat for
sale...$20. Picked it up, installed it on a wooden base with a lazy susan
swivel, and used it as my office chair for years. The adjustments (height,
backrest, etc.) even worked.

Not long after I bought the chair, I found a Honeywell "Autopilot Formation
Stick" as well. This is a big analog joystick. I built a A/D converter to let
it simulate an Atari joystick, and mounted it between the leg supports of the
727 seat.

Worked pretty good.... have to see if I can find a picture, somewhere.

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

Ben Jackson > wrote:
> On 2006-10-27, > wrote:
>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>> The pedals in particular have a heft to them that connotes quality,
>>> and they move very smoothly, seemingly on ball bearings.
>>
>> If the casing comes off easily, you might take a look. There's a 50-50
>> chance you'll find steel strips in there that don't do anything but add
>> weight.
>
> ABSOLUTELY DO **NOT** TAKE APART THE PEDALS. Ask me how I know ;-)

How do you know?

I am guessing that either tiny springs fly everywhere, or that they
weren't meant to be disassembled and lots of plastic tabs break.

Matt Roberds

[Gary Drescher]

> wrote in message
...
> Ben Jackson > wrote:
>> ABSOLUTELY DO **NOT** TAKE APART THE PEDALS. Ask me how I know ;-)
>
> How do you know?
>
> I am guessing that either tiny springs fly everywhere, or that they
> weren't meant to be disassembled and lots of plastic tabs break.

I took mine apart when the left brake stopped working (it turned out that a
wire had broken; I reconnected it and it worked fine). Nothing irreversible
happens, but yes, some springs and other parts tend to slip out of place and
have to be delicately repositioned. I wouldn't suggest going to the trouble
unless you have to fix something.

--Gary

[Jay Honeck]

> I took mine apart when the left brake stopped working (it turned out that a
> wire had broken; I reconnected it and it worked fine).

Hmmm. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for their durability.
With so many different people using the pedals, in my application, I
wonder how long they'll last?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gary Drescher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> I took mine apart when the left brake stopped working (it turned out that
>> a
>> wire had broken; I reconnected it and it worked fine).
>
> Hmmm. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for their durability.
> With so many different people using the pedals, in my application, I
> wonder how long they'll last?

I don't recall just how long I had mine before the wire broke, but it was
years (and the problem was easily fixed). Not bad for a toy.

--Gary

[Jose[_1_]]

>>I took mine apart when the left brake stopped working (it turned out that a
>> wire had broken; I reconnected it and it worked fine).
>
> Hmmm. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for their durability.

That's an amusing statement from a Lightspeed apologist. Maybe they're
working now, but in the early days when you had so much trouble with
them you chafed at similar comments.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Kev]

Morgans wrote:
> "Stefan" > wrote in message
> > http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/Flugsimulator.jpg
>
> Man, that is ...Scary! Is that your setup?
> How do you link that many monitors (and computers?) to run off of one program?

With "WIdeView". It lets you network as many computers as you'd like,
all running MS Flight Sim, and all moving in sync. Most use it to
give side images so that you can turn your head and look out the side
windows of the cockpit, giving a far more realistic experience to
flying a landing pattern.

Someone built a sim of an airliner, with cockpit _and_ several
passenger rows. They used WideView to run monitors placed outside the
passenger windows, thus giving a family-flight experience :)

http://www.wideview.it/

The other program used a lot is WideFS, which allows other computers
access to MSFS variables. Grab an old cheap laptop with small screen
and tie it into the net as your Garmin avionics, for example.

These days, there's no reason a pilot can't use a cheap sim to pre-fly
a route and ILS to a srange airport.

Kev

[Jay Honeck]

> To solve many of your sensitivity problems and be able to add all sorts
> of cool things, be sure to get the #1 FS addon: FSUIPC:
>
> http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Wow, what a perfect example of a poorly designed webpage. No where on
the page do they bother to explain what "FSUIPC" is -- although you
*can* download FSUIPC (and other flight sim stuff) from there.

After a little searching, I found the answer here, on another webpage:

http://simmarket.com/product_info.php?products_id=2068

Thanks for the other links, BTW. Lots of good stuff there.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[JSBOUGHER]

I've spent some time day-dreaming over a motion simulator. Take a look
at:
http://www.acesim.com/main.html

Jeff

Kev wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Until now, flying MS Flight Sim '04 using the big screen projector at
> > the hotel has been cool, but, well, unreal. A joystick -- even a
> > force-feedback stick, like we used -- is simply a bad compromise
>
> Yes, far better with yoke and rudder pedals with toe brakes.
>
> To solve many of your sensitivity problems and be able to add all sorts
> of cool things, be sure to get the #1 FS addon: FSUIPC:
>
> http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html
>
> Next, order up your local scenery and better terrain from someone like:
>
> http://www.pcaviator.com/megascenery/
> http://portal.fsgenesis.net/
>
> I can actually follow the roads and lakes around northern NJ on the
> sim!
>
> Personally, I use a sim to pre-plan flights (hey, look there's a ridge
...
> So here comes some radio links, which should make you drool a bit:
>
> http://www.flyelite.com/hardware.php
> http://www.goflightinc.com/order/index.php
> http://sim.itra.de/default_en.htm
> http://www.simkits.com/
>
> Best, Kev

[Jay Honeck]

> I've spent some time day-dreaming over a motion simulator. Take a look
> at:
> http://www.acesim.com/main.html

Cool! A tad pricey, at $1800 (pre-built; less if you build it
yourself), but cool nonetheless.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > To solve many of your sensitivity problems and be able to add all sorts
> > of cool things, be sure to get the #1 FS addon: FSUIPC:
> >
> > http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html
>
> Wow, what a perfect example of a poorly designed webpage. No where on
> the page do they bother to explain what "FSUIPC" is -- although you
> *can* download FSUIPC (and other flight sim stuff) from there.
>
> After a little searching, I found the answer here, on another webpage:
>
> http://simmarket.com/product_info.php?products_id=2068
>
> Thanks for the other links, BTW. Lots of good stuff there.

and you don't even tell us... sheeesssh.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-10-28, > wrote:
> Ben Jackson > wrote:
>>
>> ABSOLUTELY DO **NOT** TAKE APART THE PEDALS. Ask me how I know ;-)
>
> How do you know?
>
> I am guessing that either tiny springs fly everywhere,

Yep. When I pulled the case halves apart it dislodged some internal
mechanism and it was tricky to figure out where everything went and
get it to agree to stay there while I put the case back together.
I opened mine because the rudder centerpoint would drift. I don't
think I managed to fix that (no loose connections or slipping pot)
but I did get them back together. I mostly don't use them, since I
only sim for IFR practice.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Stefan]

Morgans schrieb:

>> http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/Flugsimulator.jpg

> Man, that is ...Scary! Is that your setup?

No. No time nor desire to sim, because I devote my limited amount of
spare time and spare money to real flying. I just pulled the picture off
the net because I thought it was funny.

Stefan

[Blanche]

Even simpler approach to a movable seat - on rails with a latch
(C clamp concept) or holes in the rail and drop a steel bar (weight
training - lots of iron bars and you select the weight by
selecting the number of iron bars and putting a *hefty* latchpin
in the bottom bar).

Watch out for your fingers!

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-10-30, Blanche > wrote:
>
> Watch out for your fingers!

Auugh. I flipped by an infomercial where a guy was "testing" a ladder
by bouncing it on the step side. It's the kind of ladder that has a
beefy hinge at the apex and no crossmember. He was holding it with his
fingers INSIDE the ladder. I'm sure if the hinge had failed I could
include a link to the online video of the guy losing his fingers...

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/