where to see routes on internet?

[Bejeeber]

Hey, sorry to be kind of crashing this group since I'm not a pilot.

I bet y'all can help me though.

My current house in the Warm Beach area of Stanwood, Wa 98292 gets
buzzed by small planes all the time - I seem to be on some sort of
regular "route" for planes from Seattle to the San Juans?

Well I'll be moving pretty soon - probably to Athens, GA - and I don't
wish to make the same mistake of locating myself in a neighborhood
that's regularly buzzed over again.

Is there some website I can go to with maps or whatever that will allow
me to find whether a given neighborhood will have busy overhead
traffic, whether small planes or airliners?

Thanks.

[Stache]

You can purchase a chart (map) of the local airways anywhere in the
country. However I would suggest you contact the local Flight Standard
District Office (FSDO) in Atlanta and ask about the local air traffic
from different airports. They are located at:

Altanta FSDO
1701 Columbia Avenue
College Park, GA 30337
(404) 305-7200

Ask to speak to a pilot or operations person.

Small aircraft can fly from 500 feet and up, most stay above 1,000
feet, but it still makes a lot of noise. The FAA operations person can
explain this to you and let you know which small airports are in the
area you want to live.

Stache

[Jim Macklin]

Buy a place as close as possible to a nuclear power plant,
or a presidential residence or get ear plugs. Airplanes can
fly almost anywhere. Best to live in a all concrete jungle
so there are no leaf blowers or lawn mowers. A small town
without bus service will be quiet.
Cozumel should be very quiet, but you'll need a boat.



"Bejeeber" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Hey, sorry to be kind of crashing this group since I'm not
a pilot.
|
| I bet y'all can help me though.
|
| My current house in the Warm Beach area of Stanwood, Wa
98292 gets
| buzzed by small planes all the time - I seem to be on
some sort of
| regular "route" for planes from Seattle to the San Juans?
|
| Well I'll be moving pretty soon - probably to Athens, GA -
and I don't
| wish to make the same mistake of locating myself in a
neighborhood
| that's regularly buzzed over again.
|
| Is there some website I can go to with maps or whatever
that will allow
| me to find whether a given neighborhood will have busy
overhead
| traffic, whether small planes or airliners?
|
| Thanks.
|

[Sylvain]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Buy a place as close as possible to a nuclear power plant,
> or a presidential residence or get ear plugs. Airplanes can
> fly almost anywhere.

The guy was not one of the nutjobs who want to close
all airports because they inconvenience him (except when they
actually do need transportation), but he asked politely how
to find information that might help him choose a better place
for him when he moves.

I mean, we do criticize (and rightfully so) people who move
near an airport and then complain about it, but this guy is
actually taking steps to avoid doing just that. Why not
give him some useful info?

The only thing I could think of for him to do would be to
get the relevant sectional and terminal charts and ask a
local pilot to interpret them for him. I'd be more than
happy to do that if he was moving nearby.

--Sylvain

[Bejeeber]

Thanks Stache - I'll be calling that # to get info.

I think part of my problem here is that we're sort of on a bluff near
the water, so planes that are well above 1,000 feet over the water are
kinda low when they go over our house, and the reason I'm thinking
we're on some kind of regular route is both the frequency with which
planes pass over, and the fact that I can often look straight up thru
my kitchen skylight and see the plane zip past (!!!).

[Larry Dighera]

On 28 Oct 2006 20:02:01 -0700, "Bejeeber" >
wrote in . com>:

>Is there some website I can go to with maps or whatever that will allow
>me to find whether a given neighborhood will have busy overhead
>traffic, whether small planes or airliners?

You'll find aviation charts here: http://skyvector.com/

You can view flight tracks here: http://atcmonitor.com/
http://atcmonitor.com/atlanta/screen.html

[Peter Duniho]

"Bejeeber" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> [...]
> My current house in the Warm Beach area of Stanwood, Wa 98292 gets
> buzzed by small planes all the time - I seem to be on some sort of
> regular "route" for planes from Seattle to the San Juans?
>
> Well I'll be moving pretty soon - probably to Athens, GA - and I don't
> wish to make the same mistake of locating myself in a neighborhood
> that's regularly buzzed over again.
>
> Is there some website I can go to with maps or whatever that will allow
> me to find whether a given neighborhood will have busy overhead
> traffic, whether small planes or airliners?

While Stanwood is pretty much directly between Arlington Airport and the San
Juan Islands, I've got bad news for you: you aren't actually on any "regular
route". You live in an somewhat urban area, which means airplanes are
flying around all the time. Some are going to or from the San Juans...most
are just flying around for other reasons.

You will have the same issue in any urban area. Nor is there any reliable
means of identifying "regular routes" for all but the largest airplanes
going to and from a large commercial airport. General aviation traffic is
*much* less uniform than that.

That said, if you are really interested, one thing that you can do is try to
see if the local ATC radar facility (at Athens, that's probably Atlanta
Center...possibly it would be close enough that Atlanta Approach would be
useful too) can provide you with a daily or weekly chart of the radar
returns. I know here in the Seattle area, Seattle Approach makes those
available if one asks, and they provide a decent idea of where the most
dense air traffic is.

Keeping in mind, of course, that such a graph will be dominated by
commercial airliners. Smaller airplanes will constitute a relatively small
portion of the total traffic, and some of the general aviation traffic won't
even be on the chart, due to flying below reliable radar coverage. But at
least you can avoid the worst that way.

That said, my guess is that if you are annoyed by the relatively light
traffic that goes over the Stanwood area, you are unlikely to find true
"peace and quiet" unless you avoid living near any significant city at all.
Most of us probably wouldn't characterize the amount of air traffic in the
Stanwood area as being "buzzed by small planes all the time" (to me, "all
the time" implies a relatively constant flow of traffic, which I am sure
does not exist in the Stanwood area, given how light air traffic is in and
around that area when I fly through it).

So I wouldn't get your hopes up. You should probably make sure whatever
house you buy has good quality double- or triple-paned windows and make your
own quiet.

Pete

[Greg B]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Macklin wrote:
>> Buy a place as close as possible to a nuclear power plant,
>> or a presidential residence or get ear plugs. Airplanes can
>> fly almost anywhere.
>
> The guy was not one of the nutjobs who want to close
> all airports because they inconvenience him (except when they
> actually do need transportation), but he asked politely how
> to find information that might help him choose a better place
> for him when he moves.
>
> I mean, we do criticize (and rightfully so) people who move
> near an airport and then complain about it, but this guy is
> actually taking steps to avoid doing just that. Why not
> give him some useful info?
>
> The only thing I could think of for him to do would be to
> get the relevant sectional and terminal charts and ask a
> local pilot to interpret them for him. I'd be more than
> happy to do that if he was moving nearby.

I agree.

(My 2 cents) When I was looking for a house in McAllen, TX (MFE), I noted
where the airport was and the houses I was looking at. My friends (and
realtor) kept asking me why I was avoiding certain neighborhoods and I
mentioned that the airlines seem to pass over those. Most realtors don't
have a clue about that.

I have a friend in Cedar Rapids (CID) that lives in the same neighborhood as
the local (head?) controller lives, thus very few planes fly over his house.

[Sylvain]

Peter Duniho wrote:

> You will have the same issue in any urban area. Nor is there any reliable
> means of identifying "regular routes" for all but the largest airplanes
> going to and from a large commercial airport. General aviation traffic is
> *much* less uniform than that.

however, there are a number of things that a local pilot might help
identify; for instance, the usual/commonly used reporting points
when coming in to land at the local fields, the 'practice areas'
used by the local clubs/FBOs, the local places used to practice
aerobatics, the usual sight seeing locations, the route the locals
like to follow for easy navigation, or because it avoids some busy
airspace, or because there is a really cool onfield restaurant,
etc. I mean, it's not 100% reliable of course, but it could be
a start.

--Sylvain

[Jim Macklin]

There is a job title, real estate agent... Airplanes are a
fact of life. Just as waterfowl migrate, airplanes migrate.
Some things are daily and some are seasonal, like football
season near a college town.

He has the mistaken I'd that airplanes follow routes and
they do to an extant near terminal areas, particularly Class
B airspace.



"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Buy a place as close as possible to a nuclear power
plant,
| > or a presidential residence or get ear plugs. Airplanes
can
| > fly almost anywhere.
|
| The guy was not one of the nutjobs who want to close
| all airports because they inconvenience him (except when
they
| actually do need transportation), but he asked politely
how
| to find information that might help him choose a better
place
| for him when he moves.
|
| I mean, we do criticize (and rightfully so) people who
move
| near an airport and then complain about it, but this guy
is
| actually taking steps to avoid doing just that. Why not
| give him some useful info?
|
| The only thing I could think of for him to do would be to
| get the relevant sectional and terminal charts and ask a
| local pilot to interpret them for him. I'd be more than
| happy to do that if he was moving nearby.
|
| --Sylvain
|
|

[Mxsmanic]

This must all be highly subjective. I used to live directly beneath a
heavily used visual approach to one of the nation's largest airports,
and I don't recall aircraft noise ever being objectionable to me. At
the same time, the upscale retirement community only about 300 feet
away constantly complained about noise, so much so that I once wrote
to the city to tell them that not everyone in the flight path found
the noise bothersome--indeed, I really had to pay attentiont to notice
it at all.

Of course, if you're so close that the noise interferes with
conversation or some other important activity, that's different. Some
of my relatives live so near KSAN that I was afraid to visit them when
I was little, because the loud rumbling that they heard every few
minutes as jet aircraft wound up for take-off felt like an earthquake
to me, and I was afraid we would all slide into the ocean.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Martin Hotze]

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:54:08 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

>General aviation traffic is
>*much* less uniform than that.

Well, it might help to not life anywhere close to a VFR checkpoint.

#m
--
Enemy Combatant <http://itsnotallbad.com/>
... because a President says so ...

[Jim Macklin]

Or along a near any road, river or rail line. Near a town.
Along a coast line. A golf course or race track. Certainly
a nudist colony.

And don't live near a pig or chicken farm, slaughter house
or packing plant. Don't live near undesirable people,
factories, rivers prone to flooding. Use goats to cut the
lawn.

I am always amazed at the people who will rent or buy a home
below the flood line from an average storm. But then we
will spend a few billion dollars to rebuild New Orleans
rather than moving the people out to higher ground and just
repairing the seaport and French Quarter.


"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:54:08 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:
|
| >General aviation traffic is
| >*much* less uniform than that.
|
| Well, it might help to not life anywhere close to a VFR
checkpoint.
|
| #m
| --
| Enemy Combatant <http://itsnotallbad.com/>
| ... because a President says so ...

[Jay Honeck]

> (My 2 cents) When I was looking for a house in McAllen, TX (MFE), I noted
> where the airport was and the houses I was looking at. My friends (and
> realtor) kept asking me why I was avoiding certain neighborhoods and I
> mentioned that the airlines seem to pass over those. Most realtors don't
> have a clue about that.

You *avoided* areas with airplanes? Geez, Greg, what's up with that?

;-)

Personally, I love having our house adjacent to the 3-mile final
approach path to our main calm-wind runway here in Iowa City.
(Admittedly we don't get a lot of departures east of town, which
largely saves us from the noise.)

That's another good thing for the original poster to check. Make sure
he's on the approach side of town in relation to the most commonly-used
runway. Planes passing over at low-power settings are not bothersome.

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Judah]

"Bejeeber" > wrote in news:1162090921.916075.309980
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Hey, sorry to be kind of crashing this group since I'm not a pilot.
>
> I bet y'all can help me though.
>
> My current house in the Warm Beach area of Stanwood, Wa 98292 gets
> buzzed by small planes all the time - I seem to be on some sort of
> regular "route" for planes from Seattle to the San Juans?
>
> Well I'll be moving pretty soon - probably to Athens, GA - and I don't
> wish to make the same mistake of locating myself in a neighborhood
> that's regularly buzzed over again.
>
> Is there some website I can go to with maps or whatever that will allow
> me to find whether a given neighborhood will have busy overhead
> traffic, whether small planes or airliners?
>
> Thanks.
>

I would also recommended you stop into the local Athens Airport.

http://www.athensairport.net/

I'd say call, but I think you will do much better by hanging out at the
flight school for a few hours and talking to the receptionist, the
students, and the instructors especially. Instructors at the flight school
can give you an idea of where they go for practice, what the "typical"
nice-weather runway is, the approach procedures in bad weather, etc... They
will probably be able to show you on a map (Sectional Charts, IFR Low
Altitude Charts, and Approach Plates) the areas of town that are underneath
these routes.

Also, sometimes the best way to avoid noise over your house is the opposite
of what you might expect. For example, I live about halfway between White
Plains airport and Laguardia Airport in NY. I get a lot of planes over my
house on a daily basis, departing or arriving at one of the two airports.
But typically by the time they get here they are in the 10's of thousands
of feet, and all I might hear on a beatiful sunny day is a low hollow rush
as it passes way overhead, almost like a beach noise. I've lived in this
area most of my life, and quite frankly I pretty much tune the noise out.
It's not all that intrusive. Every once in a while, we hear a plane fly
overhead at a fairly low altitude and it's noisy to the point that someone
in the house says, "boy that plane was low!" But that's rare. Because I am
in close proximity to a major airport, the airspace above my home is in
what's called "Class B Airspace". It means that pilots are "controlled" by
ATC, and can't just fly around buzzing and practicing in this area.

In other words, rather than avoid the approaches altogether, you may be
better off finding an area on the approach where planes have to be high.
This way even though you'll have planes flying overhead, they will mostly
be high enough not to be annoying.

Admittedly, it's a little tougher to figure out where planes are going to
be when the weather is clear, since there are far fewer restrictions. And
if the weather is bad, you probably will be inside and won't hear plane
noise anyway. So your best bet might be to talk to neighbors before buying
and see what they say about airplane noise in the area.

[zatatime]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:48:48 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>Or along a near any road, river or rail line. Near a town.
>Along a coast line. A golf course or race track. Certainly
>a nudist colony.
>
>And don't live near a pig or chicken farm, slaughter house
>or packing plant. Don't live near undesirable people,
>factories, rivers prone to flooding. Use goats to cut the
>lawn.
>
>I am always amazed at the people who will rent or buy a home
>below the flood line from an average storm. But then we
>will spend a few billion dollars to rebuild New Orleans
>rather than moving the people out to higher ground and just
>repairing the seaport and French Quarter.


Way to stay on topic.

z

[Jim Macklin]

The OP, a non-pilot, wanted to know how to avoid airplanes
flying over and making noise. Two sure fire ways, post 9/11
is to get your house close to a nuclear power plant or a
President. That was seen as "wrong" advice so I made other
suggestions. And If the OP wants peace and total quiet,
you must avoid all gasoline powered tools, maybe move to an
Amish community, would be best.

Do you know how much noise is made by the helicopters
hovering over-head?



"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:48:48 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >Or along a near any road, river or rail line. Near a
town.
| >Along a coast line. A golf course or race track.
Certainly
| >a nudist colony.
| >
| >And don't live near a pig or chicken farm, slaughter
house
| >or packing plant. Don't live near undesirable people,
| >factories, rivers prone to flooding. Use goats to cut
the
| >lawn.
| >
| >I am always amazed at the people who will rent or buy a
home
| >below the flood line from an average storm. But then we
| >will spend a few billion dollars to rebuild New Orleans
| >rather than moving the people out to higher ground and
just
| >repairing the seaport and French Quarter.
|
|
| Way to stay on topic.
|
| z

[Greg B]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> You *avoided* areas with airplanes? Geez, Greg, what's up with that?
>
> ;-)

The GA I didn't care about, it was the airline traffic that flew into MFE
that I didn't want to be too near.

I now live on 1.5 mile final to 13 here in Fairmont. I've thought about
complaining to the city about the local airplane noise -- not enough of it!

-Greg B.

[Peter Duniho]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> however, there are a number of things that a local pilot might help
> identify; for instance [examples snipped]

Yes, that's all true. However, in an urban area, once you've added all
those things all up, you're not left with much in the way of airplane-free
areas. My concern is that given what I know about the air traffic where
this fellow does live, he may only be happy in an area in which there are
basically NO airplanes, and that's extremely hard to come by in an urban
area.

I am not saying he shouldn't do that research. All of the things you
mention do contribute to air traffic and in that respect they are useful for
him to know. But I think it's important to also try to point out the
reality of the situation, with respect to trying to avoid all air traffic.

Pete

[Sylvain]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> That's another good thing for the original poster to check. Make sure
> he's on the approach side of town in relation to the most commonly-used
> runway. Planes passing over at low-power settings are not bothersome.

that's very true; I live right under the short final (less than 2nm)
of one of the 32 runways of Moffett Federal Airfield; for one thing
there is not much traffic, but interesting a/c land there, from AF1 or
2, a huge Antonov, F18s, C130s, various helicopters, etc.,
really cool :-), but in the last two years that I have lived here, I
saw only one aircraft (a C130) take off from 14 (and I reckon it was
part of whatever training thing they were doing) right over my house;
it is really no bother at all; when I work at home, I keep my VHF on
the tower frequency in case I miss something :-) (my cat however,
is scared silly by the F18s, other aircraft are ok, regardless of
size or noise levels...)

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> I am always amazed at the people who will rent or buy a home
> below the flood line from an average storm.

May be, I am just guessing here, does it have an influence on
the amount one pays for rent? for some people, such short term
goals do matter a great deal.

--Sylvain

[Jim Macklin]

It might. But if you go to look at a place to rent and the
high water mark is at the second floor, you should look
elsewhere.


"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > I am always amazed at the people who will rent or buy a
home
| > below the flood line from an average storm.
|
| May be, I am just guessing here, does it have an
influence on
| the amount one pays for rent? for some people, such
short term
| goals do matter a great deal.
|
| --Sylvain

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Bejeeber" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks Stache - I'll be calling that # to get info.
>
> I think part of my problem here is that we're sort of on a bluff near
> the water, so planes that are well above 1,000 feet over the water are
> kinda low when they go over our house, and the reason I'm thinking
> we're on some kind of regular route is both the frequency with which
> planes pass over, and the fact that I can often look straight up thru
> my kitchen skylight and see the plane zip past (!!!).

Then tell the females in your house to quit sunbathing in the nude...
<dirty-old-man-grin>

[Bejeeber]

Well I'm learning a lot here, and now based on the replies, I'm
starting to wonder if there's a small plane airline that's ferrying
passengers from Seattle to the Island, and if those pilots stick to a
routine route? Eh just another crackpot theory :^)

But I can say that of the 14 different homes I've lived in so far, this
has the most close planes going over. Wait a minute - I lived next to a
military air base in laguna Hills, Ca. once and those close fighter
jets were actually a bit peskier. :^o

A detail I left out earlier is that I create audio content for a
living. Out of the home. So I'm absolutely way more sensitive to the
pesky noises outside than the average person, no doubt about it.

[Larry Dighera]

On 31 Oct 2006 00:39:22 -0800, "Bejeeber" >
wrote in om>:

>I lived next to a
>military air base in laguna Hills, Ca. once and those close fighter
>jets were actually a bit peskier. :^o

Was that just prior to Operation Desert Storm? I was living near the
405/5 wye then, and those nighttime military aircraft operations at El
Toro were remarkably noisy. Perhaps that's the place to live now that
the air base has been closed. There are only two airports (not
counting heliports) civil or military left in Orange County anymore;
Fountain Valley, Seal Beach, Newport Beach, Dana Point, Huntington
Beach, El Toro and Tustin have all been closed.

[Judah]

"Bejeeber" > wrote in news:1162283962.447242.212900
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

>
> Well I'm learning a lot here, and now based on the replies, I'm
> starting to wonder if there's a small plane airline that's ferrying
> passengers from Seattle to the Island, and if those pilots stick to a
> routine route? Eh just another crackpot theory :^)
>
> But I can say that of the 14 different homes I've lived in so far, this
> has the most close planes going over. Wait a minute - I lived next to a
> military air base in laguna Hills, Ca. once and those close fighter
> jets were actually a bit peskier. :^o
>
> A detail I left out earlier is that I create audio content for a
> living. Out of the home. So I'm absolutely way more sensitive to the
> pesky noises outside than the average person, no doubt about it.
>

It's possible. I'm not from that area, but I've been there. There are many
little charter operations (even Seaplane based) that do charters, tours,
etc...

[Peter Duniho]

"Bejeeber" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Well I'm learning a lot here, and now based on the replies, I'm
> starting to wonder if there's a small plane airline that's ferrying
> passengers from Seattle to the Island, and if those pilots stick to a
> routine route? Eh just another crackpot theory :^)

Well, as I mentioned...you are basically on a direct line between Arlington
Airport and the San Juan Islands. However, there's no commercial scheduled
service out of Arlington, as far as I know. You are definitly not on any
route from Seattle to the San Juans. Even Seattle-to-Bellingham flights are
unlikely to pass over your house.

Without having specific data (log of each flight during the day, over a week
or so, with at least the type of airplane, if not N-number) it's impossible
to say for sure. But I suspect that there's no regular route over your
house, and that you're just experiencing normal, random air traffic.

> [...]
> A detail I left out earlier is that I create audio content for a
> living. Out of the home. So I'm absolutely way more sensitive to the
> pesky noises outside than the average person, no doubt about it.

Yes, I can see how airplane traffic would cause a problem for that. :)
Hopefully the problem is mainly one of distraction. I can't imagine trying
to actually record clean audio in a setting as relatively uncontrolled as a
residential home.

On the bright side, it is not only possible, but even feasible, to create a
relatively sound-proof environment, even in a residential home. It's
basically a remodel, with the associated costs of course. But when you're
dealing with your livelihood, you may find it a worthwhile effort and
expense. And if you *are* doing actual recording, I'd think it'd be *well*
worth it.

Anyway, good luck finding your aircraft-free environment. Hopefully the
resources offered here do help.

Pete