Landing on the numbers

[Mxsmanic]

What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[gpsman]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?

It's an old Vietnam-era military aviation tradition.

A firebase support crew twists up a few "numbers" (aka blunts, rounds,
hooters, spliffs, joints) and fixes them to the runway/LZ with duct
tape or a rock, ammo can, etc. They were awarded to the first chopper
crew returning from a mission who lands close enough to collect them.

FYI:

Vietnam: A country in SE Asia.

Vietnam Era: Between August 5, 1964 and May 7, 1975

Firebase: An secure or semi-secure encampment designed to provide fire
support to infantry via helicopters and howitzers.

Support: The inverse of resistance.

Runway: A defined rectangular area on a land airport that is prepared
for the landing and takeoff of aircraft.

LZ: Landing zone.

Duct tape: An adhesive tape intended to seal joints in sheet metal duct
work.

Rock: A piece of stone.

Ammo can: A metal container for holding ammunition.

Chopper: A helicopter.

Helicopter: An aircraft that obtains its primary lift from the rotation
of overhead blades.
-----

- gpsman

[Wade Hasbrouck]

Interesting insight/history... Today it means pretty much what it says...
touching down on the runway numbers. Pretty straight forward... While it
is probably debatable, in my opinion, this is not always the safest thing to
do, I believe most will aim for the center of the first third of the runway.
Reason "landing on the numbers" is not always safe, is if you "miss."
Missing "long" in this case isn't bad, but missing "short" can be, and many
things can happen to cause you to miss short, like wind dying down,
turbulence, etc. There are times when you will probably want to land on
the numbers, such as a medical emergency on board and need to get to medical
assistance as quickly as possible.


"gpsman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?
>
> It's an old Vietnam-era military aviation tradition.
>
> A firebase support crew twists up a few "numbers" (aka blunts, rounds,
> hooters, spliffs, joints) and fixes them to the runway/LZ with duct
> tape or a rock, ammo can, etc. They were awarded to the first chopper
> crew returning from a mission who lands close enough to collect them.
>
> FYI:
>
> Vietnam: A country in SE Asia.
>
> Vietnam Era: Between August 5, 1964 and May 7, 1975
>
> Firebase: An secure or semi-secure encampment designed to provide fire
> support to infantry via helicopters and howitzers.
>
> Support: The inverse of resistance.
>
> Runway: A defined rectangular area on a land airport that is prepared
> for the landing and takeoff of aircraft.
>
> LZ: Landing zone.
>
> Duct tape: An adhesive tape intended to seal joints in sheet metal duct
> work.
>
> Rock: A piece of stone.
>
> Ammo can: A metal container for holding ammunition.
>
> Chopper: A helicopter.
>
> Helicopter: An aircraft that obtains its primary lift from the rotation
> of overhead blades.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
>

[BT]

"Brick One"

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

Hey Mxsmanic! Just spent some time at your website mate! Seems well
researched! Hard to believe it's by the same person here who never seems to
research anything yourself! The info on Paris reigns true with my
experiences when I visited many years ago.
Oz/Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Thomas Borchert]

Gpsman,

> Helicopter: An aircraft that obtains its primary lift from the rotation
> of overhead blades.
>

That one you got wrong. So ugly the earth repels it, and all that ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jose[_1_]]

> FYI:

You left out the two words that still puzzle me: "twists up", "numbers"
and "collect". By your narrative, "numbers" sounds like it means
"ammunition", although I suppose it could refer to mammary glands or
illegal drugs.

"twists up" sounds like it ought to mean "concocts" (supporting the last
definition of "numbers" and giving a reason to collect, in the standard
sense of the word).

Have I got that right?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[[email protected]]

Wade Hasbrouck wrote:
> Interesting insight/history... Today it means pretty much what it says...
> touching down on the runway numbers. Pretty straight forward... While it
> is probably debatable, in my opinion, this is not always the safest thing to
> do, I believe most will aim for the center of the first third of the runway.
> Reason "landing on the numbers" is not always safe, is if you "miss."
> Missing "long" in this case isn't bad, but missing "short" can be, and many
> things can happen to cause you to miss short, like wind dying down,
> turbulence, etc.

A good pilot anticipates performance decrease in turbulence and
wind shear, and still hits the numbers. There are a lot of bush
operators who have to get in and out of really short strips; aiming for
the first third is not good enough and is a good way to either break an
airplane or get fired. Those guys can put an airplane exactly where
they want it, every time, in almost any weather condition. Most pilots
could do it, too, if they just took it seriously enough. If we can keep
a car between the lines on the highway for thousands of miles because
to fail to do so will eventually result in an accident, we can learn to
handle an airplane with consummate skill. Too many of us are satisfied
with mediocre ability.
In the late '70s I towed gliders on weekends. I was a 65-hour
pilot when I began this, and since it was an unpaid position a
commercial ticket wasn't required. Within 25 or 30 landings I could put
that airplane exactly where I wanted it, and stop it in less distance
than the book cited for landing roll. The glider guys loved it because
it minimized turnaround times. I didn't have to taxi half a mile back
to the starting point.

Dan

Dan

[Darkwing]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> What does the expression "landing on the numbers" mean?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


No one knows, it is a mystery of aviation. Well that is true for some!

--------------------------------------------------
DW

[Kyle Boatright]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Wade Hasbrouck wrote:
>> Interesting insight/history... Today it means pretty much what it says...
>> touching down on the runway numbers. Pretty straight forward... While
>> it
>> is probably debatable, in my opinion, this is not always the safest thing
>> to
>> do, I believe most will aim for the center of the first third of the
>> runway.
>> Reason "landing on the numbers" is not always safe, is if you "miss."
>> Missing "long" in this case isn't bad, but missing "short" can be, and
>> many
>> things can happen to cause you to miss short, like wind dying down,
>> turbulence, etc.
>
> A good pilot anticipates performance decrease in turbulence and
> wind shear, and still hits the numbers. There are a lot of bush
> operators who have to get in and out of really short strips; aiming for
> the first third is not good enough and is a good way to either break an
> airplane or get fired. Those guys can put an airplane exactly where
> they want it, every time, in almost any weather condition. Most pilots
> could do it, too, if they just took it seriously enough. If we can keep
> a car between the lines on the highway for thousands of miles because
> to fail to do so will eventually result in an accident, we can learn to
> handle an airplane with consummate skill. Too many of us are satisfied
> with mediocre ability.
> In the late '70s I towed gliders on weekends. I was a 65-hour
> pilot when I began this, and since it was an unpaid position a
> commercial ticket wasn't required. Within 25 or 30 landings I could put
> that airplane exactly where I wanted it, and stop it in less distance
> than the book cited for landing roll. The glider guys loved it because
> it minimized turnaround times. I didn't have to taxi half a mile back
> to the starting point.
>
> Dan

I used to be a big believer in landing on the numbers until I really thought
about it. My airplane requires 1,000' or so to roll-out under light
braking. Also, I probably use another 250' in the flare (slick airplane,
course pitch prop). So, what benefit is it to me to land on the numbers
when I'm flying from a 5,500' runway? I can still do stop and go landings
if I touch down 500' or 1,000' down the strip, and I'm not risking an
undershoot if something bad happens. By the way, I fly fairly steep
power-off approaches beginning when I'm even with the numbers on downwind. I
frequently end up slipping all the way to the flare.

One thing that concerns me is when I see someone coming in on a flat, slow,
power-on approach in an attempt to put the airplane on the numbers. That's
a great way to land just short if the engine burps.

KB

[tony roberts]

Check out his blog.
Given all of the defenders that he has here I particularly enjoyed
reading the following:

"However, since flying for real is a hobby accessible only to the idle
and robustly healthy rich, I settle for simulation"

Check it out -

http://aprenta.blogspot.com/

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article >,
"Crash Lander" > wrote:

> Hey Mxsmanic! Just spent some time at your website mate! Seems well
> researched! Hard to believe it's by the same person here who never seems to
> research anything yourself! The info on Paris reigns true with my
> experiences when I visited many years ago.
> Oz/Crash Lander

[A Lieberma]

tony roberts > wrote in news:indiacharlieecho-
11B27C.18155030102006@shawnews:
> "However, since flying for real is a hobby accessible only to the idle
> and robustly healthy rich, I settle for simulation"
>
> Check it out -
>
> http://aprenta.blogspot.com/
>
> Tony

Even more interesting..... The paragraph taken out from the above blog....

<begin paragraph>
In fact, the €8.24 I had on my checking account was seized by creditors a
few days ago (and the bank charged me €116 for the privilege, thus putting
me into the red). That won't suffice to get a pilot's license.
<end paragraph>

How does he afford internet access???? With so little money, one would
think that internet access would be very low on priority.

Allen

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"A Lieberma" > wrote in message
. 18...
> Even more interesting..... The paragraph taken out from the above
> blog....
>
> <begin paragraph>
> In fact, the ?8.24 I had on my checking account was seized by creditors a
> few days ago (and the bank charged me ?116 for the privilege, thus putting
> me into the red). That won't suffice to get a pilot's license.
> <end paragraph>
>
> How does he afford internet access???? With so little money, one would
> think that internet access would be very low on priority.
>
> Allen

Obviously there isn't much call for tours of Paris now days! Business a bit
slow eh Mxsmanic?
Oz/Crash Lander

[Thomas Borchert]

Crash,

> Obviously there isn't much call for tours of Paris now days!
>

You know, I don't want this to sound mean. But I KNOW there is demand
for tours in Paris. And then, I'm trying to imagine being given a tour
by someone exhibiting the, uhm, social skills of Manic. And then, I
wonder how much business is for that.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[vincent p. norris]

> So, what benefit is it to me to land on the numbers when I'm flying from a 5,500' runway?

The practice enables you to do it when you must.

The only place I deliberately land long is at Dulles, to save a looong
taxi.

> By the way, I fly fairly steep power-off approaches beginning
>when I'm even with the numbers on downwind.

That's the right way. Always be in a position to make the runway.
>
>One thing that concerns me is when I see someone coming in on a flat, slow,
>power-on approach in an attempt to put the airplane on the numbers.

That's the wrong way.

vince norris

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:19:45 -0800, "Wade Hasbrouck"
> wrote:

>Interesting insight/history... Today it means pretty much what it says...
>touching down on the runway numbers. Pretty straight forward... While it
>is probably debatable, in my opinion, this is not always the safest thing to
>do, I believe most will aim for the center of the first third of the runway.
>Reason "landing on the numbers" is not always safe, is if you "miss."
>Missing "long" in this case isn't bad, but missing "short" can be, and many

"Landing on the Numbers" has been one of my pet peeves for many years.
My motto is don't land long on short runways and don't land short on
long runways.

Rather than aim for the numbers I was taught to aim for the beginning
of the touchdown zone if such exists, or any particular spot if space
permits and it's safe.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> That's the wrong way.

Agreed, but it's surprising how many instructors must apparently teach that
method since you see it all the time... I usually turn final at pattern
altitude... I like to at least have the chance to be able to glide to the
runway in the event of losing an engine... The only time I can't is when I'm
stuck following some student in a C-150/152 that is flying a pattern through
3 counties...

[vincent p. norris]

>> That's the wrong way.
>
>Agreed, but it's surprising how many instructors must apparently teach that
>method since you see it all the time...

Yes, a guy like that checked me out in the C-172 recently (I'd been
flying a PA-28 for the past 25 years).

And an article in, IIRC, a Piper mag said one should have a half-mile
final.

> I like to at least have the chance to be able to glide to the
>runway in the event of losing an engine...

In navy flight training, a student could be absolutely sure that if he
ever (except right after takeoff) got into a position from which he
could not glide to the runway, the instructor would chop the power.

vince norris