757 lands on EWR taxiway by mistake

[Gary Drescher]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Guy Elden Jr]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my instructor and
chief flight instructor both hammering home the point about knowing the
color of lights associated with the approach lighting system, runway,
and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and during my
instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every aspect of the
lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.

--
Guy

[Jim Macklin]

Many years ago, a C130 was landing at Patterson, LA.
Patterson has a concrete strip and a water filled
canal/lane, very close together. The concrete runway has
white edge lighting with green and red bars, the water has
green edge lighting and white bars. KPTN

Want to guess which runway the C130 landed on?


"Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| Gary Drescher wrote:
| >
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage
|
| Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my
instructor and
| chief flight instructor both hammering home the point
about knowing the
| color of lights associated with the approach lighting
system, runway,
| and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and
during my
| instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every
aspect of the
| lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.
|
| --
| Guy
|

[Mxsmanic]

Gary Drescher writes:

> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Well, Northwest has been known to land at the wrong airport in the
wrong country, so it could have been worse.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Guy Elden Jr writes:

> Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my instructor and
> chief flight instructor both hammering home the point about knowing the
> color of lights associated with the approach lighting system, runway,
> and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and during my
> instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every aspect of the
> lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.

How hard is it to distinguish between them? Aren't taxiways always
outlined in blue (and runways _never_ outlined in blue)?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Guy Elden Jr writes:
>
>> Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my instructor and
>> chief flight instructor both hammering home the point about knowing the
>> color of lights associated with the approach lighting system, runway,
>> and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and during my
>> instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every aspect of the
>> lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.
>
> How hard is it to distinguish between them? Aren't taxiways always
> outlined in blue (and runways _never_ outlined in blue)?
>


You tell me. http://tinyurl.com/y378wt

[Bucky]

Here's some different/additional information from NJ Star Ledger:

"There were no injuries in the incident involving Continental Flight
1883, a Boeing 757-200 that arrived at 6:31 p.m. Saturday from Orlando,
Fla., with 157 passengers and six crew members aboard."

"Peters [FAA spokesman] said the plane should have landed on Runway 29,
but landed on Taxiway Z, otherwise known as Taxiway Zulu, which is
parallel to the runway."

"Halleran [president of the National Air Traffic Controllers
Association local at Newark Airport] characterized the incident as a
'pretty rare' occurrence. He noted runways and taxiways use different
colors of lighting. 'The controllers did everything correctly,' said
Halleran. 'They listened to the tape' of their communication with the
aircraft afterward."

"Runway 29 is 6,800 feet long and 150 feet wide, while the parallel
Taxiway Zulu is the same length but only 75 feet wide."

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-5/116227676734640.xml&coll=1

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Gary Drescher" > said:
>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage


<sarcasm>
But they were on a flight plan, and the tower was fully staffed, so how
could anything have gone wrong?
</sarcasm>

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
I think I'd like to see a Simpsons episode starting up with Bart Simpson
writing 'I will not attempt to undermine the Usenet Cabal'.
-- J. D. Falk

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> In a previous article, "Gary Drescher" > said:
> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=
> >858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage
>
>
> <sarcasm>
> But they were on a flight plan, and the tower was fully staffed, so how
> could anything have gone wrong?
> </sarcasm>

Somebody used a non-PMA indicator light in the coffee maker.

[Bucky]

> > How hard is it to distinguish between them? Aren't taxiways always
> > outlined in blue (and runways _never_ outlined in blue)?

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> You tell me. http://tinyurl.com/y378wt

That was a link to a daytime satellite view of EWR. The landing
occurred at 6:31pm EDT, which should have been dark (sunset was around
5:55pm EDT).

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Roy Smith > said:
>In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>> <sarcasm>
>> But they were on a flight plan, and the tower was fully staffed, so how
>> could anything have gone wrong?
>> </sarcasm>
>
>Somebody used a non-PMA indicator light in the coffee maker.

Ah, that explains it.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
`I was all fired up to write a big rant, but instead found apathy to be a
more worthwhile solution.' --- Ashley Penney

[Jose[_1_]]

> Somebody used a non-PMA indicator light in the coffee maker.

LOL

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Judah]

"Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in
ups.com:

> Gary Drescher wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=116235720
>> 0&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage
>
> Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my instructor and
> chief flight instructor both hammering home the point about knowing the
> color of lights associated with the approach lighting system, runway,
> and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and during my
> instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every aspect of the
> lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.
>
> --
> Guy
>

Wouldn't they have noticed the PAPI on the wrong side?

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Bucky" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> "Peters [FAA spokesman] said the plane should have landed on Runway 29,
> but landed on Taxiway Z, otherwise known as Taxiway Zulu, which is
> parallel to the runway."

Hmmm... Any chance it could be as simple as he was experiencing glare from
the sun?

[Stefan]

Grumman-581 schrieb:

> Hmmm... Any chance it could be as simple as he was experiencing glare from
> the sun?

Hardly, half an hour after sunset...

[[email protected]]

Stefan wrote:
> Grumman-581 schrieb:
>
> > Hmmm... Any chance it could be as simple as he was experiencing glare from
> > the sun?
>
> Hardly, half an hour after sunset...


Well, surprising that nobody has yet mentioned that the landing may
have been in VMC conditions. Not saying that it wasn't an error but if
the PF didn't even have the chance to see anything visually outside, it
could explain things.

Or can such incidents happen even when your view is clear enough?

Ramapriya

[[email protected]]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Missed-Runway.html?hp&ex=1162357200&en=858151cf4e7fca20&ei=5094&partner=homepage


There's interestingly a bit at the end of that news article suggesting
that an a/c took off the previous night from a wrong runway. Shades of
what I was imagining on a thread a month or so ago about whether or not
the PNF is allowed to alert the PF on an error.

Just as I'd suspected then, there wouldn't be much of a noise if
nothing untoward happens, which is how it's seemingly transpired in the
instant case!

Ramapriya

[Jay Beckman]

> wrote in message
s.com...
> Stefan wrote:
>> Grumman-581 schrieb:
>>
>> > Hmmm... Any chance it could be as simple as he was experiencing glare
>> > from
>> > the sun?
>>
>> Hardly, half an hour after sunset...
>
>
> Well, surprising that nobody has yet mentioned that the landing may
> have been in VMC conditions. Not saying that it wasn't an error but if
> the PF didn't even have the chance to see anything visually outside, it
> could explain things.
>
> Or can such incidents happen even when your view is clear enough?
>
> Ramapriya

It's entirely possible. I did it (more than once actually) while training
for my Private certificate.

Lined up perfectly for what I was certain was RWY 4R when in fact it was a
taxiway. Fortunately, I discovered my error in plenty of time to slide over
a bit.

Jay B

[[email protected]]

Jay Beckman wrote:
>
> It's entirely possible. I did it (more than once actually) while training
> for my Private certificate.
>
> Lined up perfectly for what I was certain was RWY 4R when in fact it was a
> taxiway. Fortunately, I discovered my error in plenty of time to slide over
> a bit.
>
> Jay B


Jay, I've basically only seen the Dubai Airport, and clearly remember
that the taxiways are about a third or a quarter of the runway width.
Unless the airport you mention was quite different, it strikes me as
quite improbable that a strip of asphalt as slender as a taxiway can be
mistaken for a runway. Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
off, but in VFR?? :)

Ramapriya

[[email protected]]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote:
> Lined up perfectly for what I was certain was RWY 4R when in fact it was a
> taxiway. Fortunately, I discovered my error in plenty of time to slide over
> a bit.

Jay, a friend of mine did a similar thing at the 4L&R side of the
runways. 4R and its parallel taxiway are both newer, dark pavement; 4L
was old and faded asphalt and not as clearly visible from a few miles
out. He was instructed to make straight-in for 4L. We were in an old
tandem tailwheel. He saw 4R and that parallel taxiway to its right and
thought 4R was 4L and reported 2-mile straight-in for 4L. Looked odd to
me, even from the back, and I said, "Um, 4L is over there" and pointed
to the left. He looked for a second and said, "Oh sh*t!" and scooted
over.

I did the same thing coming from the north, instructed to make
straight-in for 22R, that newer, darker ashphalt being the first two
long strips of pavement that you focus in on. I ended up having to do a
go-round.

[John Clear]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
>Jay, I've basically only seen the Dubai Airport, and clearly remember
>that the taxiways are about a third or a quarter of the runway width.
>Unless the airport you mention was quite different, it strikes me as
>quite improbable that a strip of asphalt as slender as a taxiway can be
>mistaken for a runway. Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
>off, but in VFR?? :)

It all comes down to what you are used to. I did alot of my training
at a field with a 40ft wide runway. Compared to that, a 50ft taxi
way is really wide. My exwife learned at the same field, and going
into one of the other local small fields with her instructor, lined
up on the narrow crumbling taxiway, completely not noticing the
75ft wide freshly paved runway right next to it. She was expecting
narrow old pavement, not fresh blacktop. Her instructor pointed
out her error before the landed.

Taxiway Alpha at Livermore (LVK) is just north of 25R is nearly
as wide as 25L. It even has 'TAXI' painted on it in big letters
to remind pilots not to land there.

Google Maps satellite view of LVK (watch the wrap):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=livermore+airport,+livermore,+ca&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=37.693491,-121.813917&spn=0.004686,0.007231&t=k&om=1&iwloc=A

Tinyurl of the above link: http://tinyurl.com/yyqwqq

Real fun is landing at Harris Ranch (3O8). The runway is only 30ft
wide. The wingspan of a Piper Cherokee is 35ft.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Stefan]

schrieb:

> Jay, I've basically only seen the Dubai Airport, and clearly remember
> that the taxiways are about a third or a quarter of the runway width.
> Unless the airport you mention was quite different, it strikes me as
> quite improbable that a strip of asphalt as slender as a taxiway can be
> mistaken for a runway.

Taxyways are not only narrower, but illuminated differently. (Remember,
it was night.)

> Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
> off, but in VFR??

????

Stefan

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Jay, I've basically only seen the Dubai Airport, and clearly remember
> that the taxiways are about a third or a quarter of the runway width.
> Unless the airport you mention was quite different, it strikes me as
> quite improbable that a strip of asphalt as slender as a taxiway can be
> mistaken for a runway. Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
> off, but in VFR?? :)

I fly in and out of the same airport as Jay. Trust me ... it's possible.
He and I are by no means the only ones that have mistaken the taxiway
for a runway. I don't know the dimensions, but I don't think our
taxiways are that much narrower than our runways.

[Peter R.]

Stefan > wrote:

> schrieb:

>> Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
>> off, but in VFR??
>
> ????

Obviously meant "IMC."

--
Peter

[nrp]

I prefer narrower runways for light aircraft. It's easier to judge the
flare height. Others?

[Andrew Gideon]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:54:22 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

>> <sarcasm>
>> But they were on a flight plan, and the tower was fully staffed, so how
>> could anything have gone wrong?
>> </sarcasm>
>
> Somebody used a non-PMA indicator light in the coffee maker.

Screw around with landing lights all you want. But keep your
nonsanctioned parts away from my coffee maker!

- Andrew

[Bucky]

wrote:
> Not saying that it wasn't an error but if
> the PF didn't even have the chance to see anything visually outside, it
> could explain things.

Here's the weather on Oct 28 in Newark:
http://www.weather.com/weather/pastweather/hourly/USNJ0355?stn=0&when=102806

In case that page is not valid later, I'll summarize it here:

It rained that morning, but did not rain after noon.

5:51pm: Mostly cloudy and windy. Felt like 52F. Dew point 38F. 59%
humidity. Visiblity 10 miles. Pressure 29.26. Wind 28mph from West.

Sunset 5:58pm

Plane landed 6:31pm

6:51pm: Partly cloudy. Felt like 52F. Dew point 34F. 50% humidity.
Visiblity 10 miles. Pressure 29.28. Wind 22mph from West.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote

> It's entirely possible. I did it (more than once actually) while training for
> my Private certificate.
>
> Lined up perfectly for what I was certain was RWY 4R when in fact it was a
> taxiway. Fortunately, I discovered my error in plenty of time to slide over a
> bit.

It happens at OSH about once a year, on 18/36, but they land on Papa, and do not
catch it in time, and actually land.
--
Jim in NC

[Mike Schumann]

I just landed at Ft. Myers (RSW) yesterday, and they are intentionally using
the taxiway as a runway while the runway is being repaired.

Mike Schumann

> wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> Jay, I've basically only seen the Dubai Airport, and clearly remember
>> that the taxiways are about a third or a quarter of the runway width.
>> Unless the airport you mention was quite different, it strikes me as
>> quite improbable that a strip of asphalt as slender as a taxiway can be
>> mistaken for a runway. Again of course, in VMC, I suppose all bets are
>> off, but in VFR?? :)
>
> I fly in and out of the same airport as Jay. Trust me ... it's possible.
> He and I are by no means the only ones that have mistaken the taxiway
> for a runway. I don't know the dimensions, but I don't think our
> taxiways are that much narrower than our runways.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

John Clear wrote:
> Real fun is landing at Harris Ranch (3O8). The runway is only 30ft
> wide. The wingspan of a Piper Cherokee is 35ft.

When I was up in Cedar Rapids, I had my plane based at C17... The
asphalt was 26 ft wide... They claimed that the runway was a combination
of turn and asphalt that was 100 ft wide, but since they noted that
there was a rough transition between the turf and the asphalt, it's not
like you wanted to go off the pavement... Coming in the first time at
night, it sure seemed narrow... You get used to it after awhile though...

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> It happens at OSH about once a year, on 18/36, but they land on Papa,
> and do not catch it in time, and actually land.

It happened to me on my first trip to OSH... I was in the flare and the
controllers informed me that I was not over 18R, but rather over the
taxiway... A quick side slip and I saved it and landed on 18R...

[Jay Beckman]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote
>
>> It's entirely possible. I did it (more than once actually) while
>> training for my Private certificate.
>>
>> Lined up perfectly for what I was certain was RWY 4R when in fact it was
>> a taxiway. Fortunately, I discovered my error in plenty of time to slide
>> over a bit.
>
> It happens at OSH about once a year, on 18/36, but they land on Papa, and
> do not catch it in time, and actually land.
> --
> Jim in NC

Over at Palm Springs (PSP) they have the word T A X I W A Y painted
vertically in very, very large yellow letters on the taxiway that is between
the two runways.

Jay B

[Bucky]

More juicy stuff. Seems like the pilot tried to cover it up:

"The controller handling the flight turned his attention to other
traffic. When he checked again on Flight 1883, Halleran said, he saw
the jet rolling slowly on Taxiway Zulu, just north of Runway 29. That
was a little unusual - if the plane were headed to the terminals, it
would likely have used a taxiway to the south, Halleran explained. So
the controller radioed the pilot to ask what happened. According to
Halleran, the pilot answered: 'I just cleared the runway. Now I'm
taxiing west on Zulu.'"

"'The controller didn't think much of it at that point,' Halleran said.
But then, the tower got a call from a frightened employee at a Port
Authority building next to the taxiway. 'We just had some airplane go
by on Taxiway Zulu real quick,' the caller said. The controller
notified his supervisor. In a radio conversation with the supervisor,
the pilot quickly admitted he'd missed the runway and landed on the
taxiway, Halleran said."

"The cockpit voice recorder would have picked up any talk between the
pilot and co-pilot. But the recorder operates on a half-hour loop, and
the plane was sent on other flights before the voice recording could be
removed, officials said."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11012006/news/regionalnews/pilot__what_goof__regionalnews_bill_sanderson.htm

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> Morgans wrote:
>> It happens at OSH about once a year, on 18/36, but they land on Papa, and do
>> not catch it in time, and actually land.
>
> It happened to me on my first trip to OSH... I was in the flare and the
> controllers informed me that I was not over 18R, but rather over the
> taxiway... A quick side slip and I saved it and landed on 18R...

What year?

You should hear the radio chatter light up when someone does that. The flagmen
"really" get nervous, and looking for a place to run! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> What year?

2002, IIRC...

> You should hear the radio chatter light up when someone does that. The
> flagmen "really" get nervous, and looking for a place to run! <g>

There wasn't any other planes on the taxiway, nor anyone standing on
it... That's why I thought that it could have been one of the runways...
I had known that one of the taxiways had been converted into a runway,
but I didn't remember which one... They had changed to using 18/36 at
the last minute while I was along the path from Ripon... I couldn't
remember whether the actual taxiway was on the east or the west, but I
figured that if I landed on the middle strip of asphalt, I had a chance
of actually being on 18L in case the taxiway was on the east whereas if
I chose the furtherest west strip of asphalt, either I would be on a
taxiway or on the runway and since there wasn't any aircraft on that
strip of asphalt, it was safer to venture there than possibly venturing
onto what might be the wrong runway... If I had seen an aircraft taxiing
or one of the ground vehicles or something, I was prepared to either
abort the landing or shift to the left for the next strip of asphalt...
Turns out that "something" was the controller telling me that that was
the taxiway... Oh well, he at least congratulated me on my side slip to
the right runway...

[Jose[_1_]]

> I prefer narrower runways for light aircraft. It's easier to judge the
> flare height. Others?

I find that to be true too.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
>
>
>
> It happens at OSH about once a year, on 18/36, but they land on Papa,
> and do not catch it in time, and actually land.

If it's going to happen, I can actually see it as an easier mistake to
make in daylight.

I find the difference between the two even more obvious at night, when
edge lighting, sequenced approach lights, touchdown zone lighting,
etc... are all in operation.

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
. ..
> If it's going to happen, I can actually see it as an easier mistake to
> make in daylight.

Especially at OSH where one of the taxiways is converted into a runway
anyway... It's not *whether* you might be landing on a taxiway, but *if* you
are going to be landing on the *correct* one...

> I find the difference between the two even more obvious at night, when
> edge lighting, sequenced approach lights, touchdown zone lighting,
> etc... are all in operation.

Hmmm... Let's extend the OSH arrivals to night... That should make for a
little more adrenaline in flying the approach... <grin>

"Plane with red and green wingtip lights, rock your wings"... <snicker>

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Grumman-581 wrote:

>
> "Plane with red and green wingtip lights, rock your wings"... <snicker>
>

How cool that would look from the tower!

All those lights moving together.

[Jay Beckman]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> Grumman-581 wrote:
>
>>
>> "Plane with red and green wingtip lights, rock your wings"... <snicker>
>>
>
> How cool that would look from the tower!
>
> All those lights moving together.

Sort of like the one about the fighter pilot named Sam on patrol near Hanoi
who gets jumped by a MiG...

"Sam, BREAK RIGHT...!!!"

....as every aircraft within radio range all pull simultaneous "Power Bat
Turns" to the right.

Jay B

[swag]

nrp wrote:
> I prefer narrower runways for light aircraft. It's easier to judge the
> flare height. Others?

You should try landing at Streator, Il The runway there is 18' wide
paving with very nicely manicured grass perfectly level with the
pavement making the runway about 50' wide. So landing is smooth even
when your nosewheel is the only wheel on pavement. But the view coming
in is really weird. You think you are still very high when it's time
to flare.

[Dima Volodin]

> wrote in message
s.com...
> Or can such incidents happen even when your view is clear enough?

Yup. http://tinyurl.com/ygysw2

> Ramapriya

Dima

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> Morgans wrote:
>> What year?
>
> 2002, IIRC...
>
>> You should hear the radio chatter light up when someone does that. The
>> flagmen "really" get nervous, and looking for a place to run! <g>
>
> There wasn't any other planes on the taxiway, nor anyone standing on it...
> That's why I thought that it could have been one of the runways...


Yep. I think I remember you. <g>

There is a guy or two standing up on a little tower, looking out for things like
that, and will tell his flagmen things, when he needs to. The likely radio call
would be, " hey everyone, heads up. It looks like someone coming in is lining
up on papa! Keep your heads on a swivel!" One of those guys sometimes
participates in discussions, here.

There are always at _least_ three flagmen, no - four, counting whoever is way
down on the south part, with the vintage aircraft. More than likely there were
more like six (or more) flagmen, but they stand mostly off the taxiway, at the
intersections of that westerly taxiway (papa) and the next little crumbled
taxiway, (the ditch) that only goes from a little south of show center and
towards the north. You probably couldn't see them, because they don't stand way
out on the taxiway.

The routine is, that after landing, the traffic flow goes north on the ditch,
and south on papa.

Anyway, at least you didn't land. People have landed on Papa, and also taken
off, too! I can't figure out how that one happens!
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Grumman-581" > wrote

> Hmmm... Let's extend the OSH arrivals to night... That should make for a
> little more adrenaline in flying the approach... <grin>
>
> "Plane with red and green wingtip lights, rock your wings"... <snicker>
**********************************************
<shudder> Oh, the humanity!

I like to listen to the tower, especially in the last 15 minutes or so, before
they close for the night.

They keep reminding everyone what time they will be closing, and inevitably,
someone calls up and gives a position report of " I'm out _ _ miles, and will I
be allowed to land?" The tower says, "as long as you are here before close
time." The guy keeps going, and calls in a little later, and says, "it looks
like I will be about two minutes late, will I be able to land?" The tower says
very firmly, "if you are not wheels on the runway by close time, you WILL be
violated."

No gray area, there! <G>

Overall, the pink shirts do a remarkable job. Only once, two years ago, did I
hear a guy on the mike that was making a mess out of everything. He didn't stay
on more that 15 minutes, then I didn't hear him, again.
--
Jim in NC

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> Yep. I think I remember you. <g>

It's *possible*, I guess... My aircraft is not the typical white with
various colored stripes on it type...

http://grumman581.googlepages.com/n581-nm.jpg

On the other hand, it was starting to get dark and the weather was
crappy... Flew through a bit of rain on the way from Ripon to OSH...

> Anyway, at least you didn't land.

Yeah, another 10-15 ft, and it would have been a landing though... Kind
of nice to hear the controller compliment you with a "good slip"
though... <grin>

[Margy Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Guy Elden Jr writes:
>
>
>>Must've been cleared for the visual to 11. I remember my instructor and
>>chief flight instructor both hammering home the point about knowing the
>>color of lights associated with the approach lighting system, runway,
>>and taxiway. The head of the flight school is a DE, and during my
>>instrument oral exam he quized me about pretty much every aspect of the
>>lighting system. Haven't forgotten it to this day.
>
>
> How hard is it to distinguish between them? Aren't taxiways always
> outlined in blue (and runways _never_ outlined in blue)?
>
Did you read the damned article?!?!?! The taxiway does NOT have blue
lights.