What percentage have a power pilot license?

[[email protected]]

Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
- then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

cheers, Victor

[Marc Ramsey]

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

Glider license first, power license 20 years later, flew power for a
couple of years, decided it was expensive and boring, haven't flown
power since...

Marc

[raulb]

You wilo be a better pilot if you learn to fly gliders first. Power
pilots often (but not always) have difficulty transitioning to gliders.
It seldom happens the other way around. It is two different kinds of
flying.


wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor

[bumper]

I suspect a significant number of glider pilots also have a power license,
but I wouldn't guess the majority do.

I've always thought gliders were beautiful and interesting. When I got my
power license first, I though gliders were not so useful - - get towed up,
then glider back down. Yeah, I was clueless.

After flying power for 8 years, I found most of my flying was just for fun,
boring holes in the sky in a little biplane or antique Aeronca. That got me
thinking about soaring. As someone already said, two totally different ways
to fly, and I love both.

With a power plane, when you approach a raptor, he'll fold his wings and
dive away. With a glider, he'll accept you and even fly off your wing tip.
Awesome!

bumper
"raulb" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> You wilo be a better pilot if you learn to fly gliders first. Power
> pilots often (but not always) have difficulty transitioning to gliders.
> It seldom happens the other way around. It is two different kinds of
> flying.
>
>
> wrote:
>> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
>> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
>> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
>> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
>> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>>
>> cheers, Victor
>

[Maule Driver]

The day after I graduated from college, I started flying both. Building
on my 15hours of pre-college power training during the week. Gliders
on the weekend.

Gliders hooked me but I continued with both. Got the glider ticket
first, power not long after.

I dropped the power and flew gliders for 15 years.

Then I dropped gliders and now fly power only (10years).

If your wallet can stand it, I recommend trying both and seeing what
sticks. It may have to do as much with the FBO/club situation as it
does with the type of flying. Variety is good.

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor
>

[jb92563]

There is another option.....Glider first and then a Motor Glider
endorsement.
You will simplify your training and cost significantly and still be
able to go places when the lift has departed.

Ray

[Eric Greenwell]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> wrote:
>> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
>> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
>> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
>> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
>> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

I suggest getting the glider license first for these (not well
researched) reasons:

* getting a glider license first requires a more thorough training in
gliders, gliding, and soaring

* getting the power license first runs the risk of later getting the
"typical" add-on glider rating (doesn't have to be that way, but it's
common, I think)

* some of your glider time and training can be applied to your power
training, reducing the cost and time required to get it without (my
experience) significanly affecting the quality of the training

>
> Glider license first, power license 20 years later, flew power for a
> couple of years, decided it was expensive and boring, haven't flown
> power since...

My experience was exactly the same as Marc's, about 25 years ago. Now
there are ways to combine the two with much less compromise than before.
For example, the Stemme is the BIG$ way to have a good airplane and a
good glider, the Carat can do the same for one person with less$ and
less (but still good) performance in both modes, and the Katana/Ximango
types may also be satisfactory if more airplane and less glider suits
your needs.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Nyal Williams]

I suggest the best way is to do power first and then
power.
The cheapest way is to do power first and then glider.


By the time you have covered all the requirements for
the power ticket you will have flown the required number
of hours any way;, without counting any of the glider
hours, so no savings will accrue. On the other hand
if you have the power license already, the requirements
for getting the glider license are much reduced. I
don't believe this is a good thing, necessarily; the
course can become too abbreviated and you won't be
taught as much about how to really be an efficient
glider pilot.

I think it is not a good idea to try both simultaneously;
one will affect the judgment of the other adversely
when you are in the learning stage.

At 18:43 31 October 2006, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>Marc Ramsey wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended)
>>>and start
>>> flying. I thought about going straight for a private
>>>glider license.
>>> But, I do have the option of going for the powered
>>>pilot license first
>>> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How
>>>many here have
>>> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
>I suggest getting the glider license first for these
>(not well
>researched) reasons:
>
>* getting a glider license first requires a more thorough
>training in
>gliders, gliding, and soaring
>
>* getting the power license first runs the risk of
>later getting the
>'typical' add-on glider rating (doesn't have to be
>that way, but it's
>common, I think)
>
>* some of your glider time and training can be applied
>to your power
>training, reducing the cost and time required to get
>it without (my
>experience) significanly affecting the quality of the
>training
>
>>
>> Glider license first, power license 20 years later,
>>flew power for a
>> couple of years, decided it was expensive and boring,
>>haven't flown
>> power since...
>
>My experience was exactly the same as Marc's, about
>25 years ago. Now
>there are ways to combine the two with much less compromise
>than before.
> For example, the Stemme is the BIG$ way to have a
>good airplane and a
>good glider, the Carat can do the same for one person
>with less$ and
>less (but still good) performance in both modes, and
>the Katana/Ximango
>types may also be satisfactory if more airplane and
>less glider suits
>your needs.
>
>--
>Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>
>'Transponders in Sailplanes' on the Soaring Safety
>Foundation website
> www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html
>
>'A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation' at
>www.motorglider.org
>

[[email protected]]

Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Marc Ramsey wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> >> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> >> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> >> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> >> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> I suggest getting the glider license first for these (not well
> researched) reasons:
>
> * getting a glider license first requires a more thorough training in
> gliders, gliding, and soaring
>
> * getting the power license first runs the risk of later getting the
> "typical" add-on glider rating (doesn't have to be that way, but it's
> common, I think)
>
> * some of your glider time and training can be applied to your power
> training, reducing the cost and time required to get it without (my
> experience) significanly affecting the quality of the training
>
> >
> > Glider license first, power license 20 years later, flew power for a
> > couple of years, decided it was expensive and boring, haven't flown
> > power since...
>
> My experience was exactly the same as Marc's, about 25 years ago. Now
> there are ways to combine the two with much less compromise than before.
> For example, the Stemme is the BIG$ way to have a good airplane and a
> good glider, the Carat can do the same for one person with less$ and
> less (but still good) performance in both modes, and the Katana/Ximango
> types may also be satisfactory if more airplane and less glider suits
> your needs.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> "Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
> www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html
>
> "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Get a glider license first. Period. And then if you still want to get
the power stuff; either get the simple PPL or get all the nine yards.

I started flying in gliders in 1980. Always wanted to fly power. After
I started flying power I said I'll never fly gliders again. It was
interesting to get the commercial, instrument, CFI and all the other
"garbage". I gave up flying sailplanes for almost 10 years. But I have
been flying them ever since and can't get enough. There is much more
challenge, requirement for more precise pilotage and much, much
more....how about this: flying airplanes becomes boring after while. It
is just like driving. That's my 2 cents....

Jacek
Pasco, WA

[fcnorton]

Hi Victor,

Power Pilot since Dec-1976 (ASEL/Ins)
Glider Pilot since May-2006
VERY Happy 304CZ Owner since July-2006

Nothing has ever pegged my "fun meter" like soaring. It is honestly
the most challenging flying that I have ever done....and the most
rewarding.

IMHO: Get your glider license first and then power - I believe you will
be a better over all pilot.

Just my 2 cents.

FC Norton

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor

[Gary Emerson[_1_]]

Power flying will require more attention to aircraft management. Engine
management, radio/VOR management, etc.

Soaring first will eliminate the "management" aspect and let you focus
on perhaps the most important thing which is flying skills.

Without looking at accident statistics and then back tracking to find
whether a pilot was "glider then power" or "power then glider", I don't
think you can say one way is better than the other.

My personal opinion would be to start with soaring first, then
transition to power. You will get to learn formation flying (with the
added bonus of having a rope tied between you). Learning how to land
when you only have one shot at it will force you to excel at energy
management. Rope break training at 200' might come in handy if you ever
lose power on departure later in power flying.

Once you master the flying part, if you're drawn to power flying, then
add the other aircraft management items into the mix and enjoy.

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor
>

[Ken Kochanski (KK)]

I soloed in gliders first (and flew locally for a season) ... then got
a power ticket ... then came back to soaring and immediately started
going XC. Glider instruction focuses on energy management and
coordination (i.e. pure flying) ... and skills and a decision making
process that is specific to flying an engineless airplane. (I loved it
when my power instructor did simulated engine failures). Power involves
more training in airplane systems, airspace/airports, navigation and
ATC (all good knowledge)... but is particularly great for getting you
accustomed to going places, with emphasis on navigating by dead
reckoning, which makes the transition to Soaring XC easy. The cheapest
way is probably power first ... however, some might argue that your
will have to unlearn some things to become a glider pilot ... (-8

"KK"
Ken Kochanski

[COLIN LAMB]

Learning to fly in either a powered aircraft or a glider is equally exciting
and rewarding. Asking the question in a glider forum may yield a different
answer than in a powered aircraft forum. Skills learned in one can be used
in the other.

Learning to fly in a high density, tower controlled environment can be more
demanding than flying in the country, often with minimal radio.

There are other factors to consider, aside from which aircraft to use.
Glider instruction may be more distant than a powered aircraft, and may have
more limited operation hours. Also, in some areas, glider operations shuts
down in the winter. But, you can fly a powered heater all winter long.

Glider clubs can be more demanding. Often, you must spend time working at
the field. With a powered aircraft, however, you generally pay your money
and go flying.

If you have enough money, do both.

Even helicopters are fun to fly.

One problem with a power plane rating is that the glider club will try to
suck you into being a tow pilot.

Colin

[JS]

wrote:
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts?
> cheers, Victor

Did glider first then power, BUT...
I suggest (for FAA ratings):

> Achieve proficiency at takeoffs and landings in power. Easier to do multiple approaches.
> Get to solo (a few of them) in glider. You will learn 100% more about flight controls and weather.
> Finish Private in SEL. This includes cross-country.
> Add glider rating.
> Get cross-country instruction in glider.
> Have fun.
You only take only one written test, and get the best of both.
Presently I fly > 95% glider and < 5% power.
Jim

[Doug]

I liked what Mike Goulian (the noted aerobatic pilot) said at a WINGS safety
seminar I attended several years ago. As a first step in safety he told the
300+ crowd of power pilots and 4 glider pilots to go take glider lessons to
really learn how to fly and learn energy management.

It made me smile.

[Michael Ash]

> wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

First, I have yet to obtain any rating at all, so take this with a grain
of salt.

My first flight (aside from airline stuff) was in a glider when I was
maybe ten years old. I loved it, but I was too afraid to touch the
controls when offered.

A bit later on I started taking powered lessons. I was probably 11 or so
at the time. I took it very slow since I couldn't afford the time or money
to go often, plus there wasn't much of a point in going fast as I was
several years away from soloing or getting my license no matter what.

I kept it up at about once a month for years, soloed at 16, lost interest
in the whole thing and quit.

Fast forward ten years, I'm done with school, have the money to go flying
and realize I want to get back into it. I'd been playing with flight
simulators for a very long time and had recently become interested in
gliders in the sim, so I decided to try them in real life.

This past July I took my second glider flight, and I was *hooked*. It was
amazing. Then I came back for my next lesson and it was even better. Every
day I fly feels like it's the best it can ever get, and every day I fly I
prove the previous day wrong. I soloed in September on my 26th flight and
I'm loving every minute of it.

I love how connected you are with the airplane. To me, a glider feels more
like something you put on than something you get into. It's easy to forget
that it's even there and become almost one with the machine, something I
never even had an hint of in powered planes.

I also enjoy the club environment. Yeah, I spend a lot more time on the
ground doing stuff so other people can fly than I spend actually flying,
but on the other hand I'm constantly surrounded by really great people who
almost universally know way more about flying than I do, and their
enthusiasm is deeply contagious.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to try both and see how you feel. There
are a lot of people who appear to enjoy flying powered planes a great
deal, even though I never really figured it out. :) I think it's more
important to do the one you really feel great about first. Learning to fly
is hard work and you need to be able to stay motivated. This counts for a
lot more than minor details like not having to take a second written exam
if you get your powered rating first.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Ray Lovinggood]

Glider Rating: 1982
Power Rating: 1992
Got Glider: 1994

Fly glider as much as I can.
Fly power plane once every two years. With instructor.
For Flight Review.

Thought I would get checked out to tow, but insurance
won't even consider it unless I have at least 200 -
250 hours of POWER time. I've got about 100 hours
in power. At our local airfield, a somewhat less than
almost pristine Cezzna 172 goes for US$105/hr (wet).
(Far less than pristine...) So, let's say I would
need 150 hours of additional power time to get the
insurance people to consider me eligible for towing.
$105/hr x 150 hours = a lot of money that I don't
have and if I did, I would spend it on soaring.

It would be nice to be able to make a trip in a GA
aircraft, but it sure is more fun to fly a sailplane!

Plus, I'll never get tagged to fly the towplane...

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS1-d

[Steven]

I had always wanted to fly sailplanes but when I had the opportunity to
learn to fly, I opted for power since I lived in Mesa, not two miles
from Falcon field. I added on the glider rating two years later out at
Turf Soaring. The only advantage to this sequence wat that I was able
to get a lot out of the way in the power training, airspace, charts,
radio, etc. that I did not have to worry during glider training. While
I definitely learned more about "flying" getting my glider rating, I
did not feel that I needed to "unlearn" anything. It's great to have
both ratings, but you need to work to stay current in both. I have not
flown power in the last two years, as I have been spending all my time
(and money) on soaring. It is definitely more fun. My intention is to
fly power during the winter and soar during the summer.

If you can afford to do both, I doubt that the sequence is all that
important. It has more to do with your personal situation, time and
money.

[Roger[_5_]]

Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
and stopping for a skinny dip : )

On Oct 31, 1:34 pm, "fcnorton" > wrote:
> Hi Victor,
>
> Power Pilot since Dec-1976 (ASEL/Ins)
> Glider Pilot since May-2006
> VERY Happy 304CZ Owner since July-2006
>
> Nothing has ever pegged my "fun meter" like soaring. It is honestly
> the most challenging flying that I have ever done....and the most
> rewarding.
>
> IMHO: Get your glider license first and then power - I believe you will
> be a better over all pilot.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> FC Norton
>
> wrote:
> > Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> > flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> > But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> > - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> > both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> > cheers, Victor

[[email protected]]

Hey guys thanks a bunch for the comments and your experiences! Really
appreciated.

I'm going to call up the Puget Sound Soaring Association to see if they
are flying this weekend. Assuming it doesn't rain! they operate at
Bergseth Airfield in Enumclaw, WA. Only about an hour from Seattle
where I'm at.

I used to fly scale RC sailplanes decades ago. Had a Glasflugel 604
with a 12ft wingspan, custom winglets, flaps and modified airfoil cross
section. Time to do it for real.

Victor

[Jack]

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?


I have both: I started with power at the age of twenty-two, courtesy of
the USAF, but only got around to flying sailplanes when I retired at age
sixty from a major airline.

My personal recommendation is to start with the glider, even though I
did not do it that way. However, no single progression track will suit
everyone. The proper direction for you may become more clear if you
examine the different kinds of flying, and how they relate to soaring.
Talk to pilots with different backgrounds and perspectives, as you are
doing here to some extent.

As a former part-owner of a Decathlon and a Cessna 182, I can understand
why the average light plane pilot might become bored with the $100
hamburger routine after a few years -- beside the fact that it gets
expensive. Here, the situations that teach you the most lasting lessons
about flying are ones you are wisely advised to avoid, or else you
rarely get to fly with someone who can mentor you constructively over a
long period of time, and your progress stagnates. Flying under these
conditions can easily become repetitive and uninteresting.

Flying a 757 brings all the benes (at least it used to) plus the
hamburgers are served in much better surroundings, and you can get out
of Detroit in January on somebody else's dime. You'd be nuts to turn it
down, but it's not where you start.

Less surprisingly than might be assumed, the type of flying which has
seemed to me most closely related to flying modern sailplanes is flying
fighter aircraft (bear with me for a moment). Probably because in each
type one is almost continuously concerned with gaining maximum
performance from the aircraft in all phases of flight -- because of the
mission, and because that's just the way fighter pilots are wired. The
craft is designed and constructed for a demanding purpose with as few
compromises as possible, and it fits you pretty closely. The visibility
is excellent in both, and you have a purpose for being there beyond just
taking off from point "A", navigating to point "B", and landing without
breaking anything, even when you aren't actually fighting, or sailplane
racing. Energy conservation, application, and mental focus are essential
to survival/success. Unless one starts by flying light planes in Alaska
or in some other hostile environment where putting the airplane to work
-- using it as a tool, more than a toy -- is the name of the game, one
is unlikely to find the same kind of absorption in aviation -- at least
for very long.

When the seed is first planted in gliders (as it was with so many of
Germany's WW2-era LuftWaffe pilots, and is true today of some USAF
Academy Cadets) you can be born into the very heart and soul of flight,
grow without distractions in understanding and respect for flight itself
and for others who share the passion and the knowledge. It's the
shortest way home, if the sky is that place for you.

If you later decide you want to add fuel to the fire, you can do that --
and you'll have one hell of a head start. After that, become a tow pilot
and an instructor, and help nourish a new generation.


Jack

[bumper]

Helicopter, military definition: A mass of fatigued metal, rotating around
an oil leak.

bumper

"Roger" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
> pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
> Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
> and stopping for a skinny dip : )
>
> On Oct 31, 1:34 pm, "fcnorton" > wrote:
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> Power Pilot since Dec-1976 (ASEL/Ins)
>> Glider Pilot since May-2006
>> VERY Happy 304CZ Owner since July-2006
>>
>> Nothing has ever pegged my "fun meter" like soaring. It is honestly
>> the most challenging flying that I have ever done....and the most
>> rewarding.
>>
>> IMHO: Get your glider license first and then power - I believe you will
>> be a better over all pilot.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> FC Norton
>>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
>> > flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
>> > But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
>> > - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
>> > both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>>
>> > cheers, Victor
>

[Gary Emerson[_1_]]

Roger wrote:
> Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
> pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
> Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
> and stopping for a skinny dip : )


Definitely a entertaining and challenging experience! Enjoyed the heck
out of my first lesson, but at almost $400 an hour for an R-22, it's
damn expensive. That's 16 tows per hour.

[Stefan]

Gary Emerson schrieb:

> Definitely a entertaining and challenging experience! Enjoyed the heck
> out of my first lesson, but at almost $400 an hour for an R-22, it's
> damn expensive. That's 16 tows per hour.

Regarding cost, there's a simple equation: One year of soaring equals
one day in a power plane equals one hour in a helicopter.

[Eric Greenwell]

Roger wrote:
> Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
> pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
> Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
> and stopping for a skinny dip : )
>

I'm told the most appropriate use for a helicopter is scouting out
remote landing places for a glider, and retrieving a glider when it uses
one of those remote fields. That requires a larger, more expensive one
than the one used for field scouting, as it must safely lift a loaded
trailer.

I do know of a couple glider pilots that also own a helicopter. Not a
common combination.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[[email protected]]

Victor,

I hope this discussion helps, but fear its heavily weighted towards
getting the glider rating first, then the powered rating. All I can
share is my experience, do with it as please. I would encourage you to
pick either avenue, flying is the most satisfying activity I do.

My experience: I am a glider pilot with my powered add ons.
Commercial Glider, Commercial SE Land, ATP ME Land, Instrument
Airplane, CFI, CFII, CFIG - 1900 hours (200 in gliders.) I started
flying gliders the summer after high school, then added my powered
ratings in college. I fly for a career - so I am a little more willing
to spend the money to gain hours and experience.

Couple of things I learned along the way: 1. The glider first,
followed by the powered rating means you'll have to take two FAA
written exams - that's an extra $75-$100 depending on the testing
center. Second - although you piloting skills will be better, you will
still probably spend the minimum 40 hrs in a powered airplane to get
the rating - you probaby won't see the benefit of the glider experience
translate to lowered costs for the powered.

I fly powered aircraft for my career, and I use GA airplanes to travel
across the country. I fly 200+ hours a year, mostly all powered. I am
finnally able to afford a sailplane of my own and am shopping for one
right now. I plan to fly more gliders in the coming years, contests
and XC, but I will still fly powered airplanes as an instructor,
professional pilot, and to travel.

I think one aspect that has been overlooked is ths soaring season.
Your are at the end of it, which means lots of sled rides with very
little opportunity to SOAR! That's the biggest factor in hooking
pilots to gliders - the 1, 2, 3 hour soaring flights that are possible
May through September in most of the country. That being said, night
arrives sooner and this can limit the amount of time available for the
powered training. But, I beleive that the powered flying will
progress more quickly than the glider flying, unless you fly at a
commercial glider operation that runs year round.

Don't forget to find an instructor that fits your personality and can
adapt to your learning style. That relationship is the single most
important to completing your ratings, no matter which you choose first.


Good luck and Happy Landings,
Andrew

[Brian[_1_]]

My suggestion if you have a soaring operation close by that will allow
you to fly reasonably often with reasonable expense then do the glider
1st.

If you have to travel or availabity or cost are issues then I would
recommend at least going up to Solo in a power airplane. You can learn
a lot a lot of basics of a flying in a few hours of power instruction
and power instruction is typically easier to locate and schedule. If
you can find one, find an instructor that teaches both glider and power
(rather hard to find I suspect). At the very least let your instructor
know what you are planning, they can help taylor your instuction to
your goals.

Having the skills to solo a power airplane will greatly accelerate your
progress in the glider. However if the glider/instructor/towplane and
tow pilots are all readly available and reasonably priced then go
glider only.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
HP16T
Boise, ID

[Aleksandar Diklic]

"COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
.net...
......
> One problem with a power plane rating is that the glider club will try to
> suck you into being a tow pilot.
>
They say that tow pilot is the only usefull power pilot, others just spoil
fuel.

[Roger Worden]

When I took my practical test for Private Pilot Glider, the FAA examiner
said "I wish they would teach everyone to fly gliders before power. You
learn so much more about energy management in gliders."

Roger

" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor
>
>

[Roger Worden]

All that stuff you learned flying RC will help you learn to fly the
"full-scale". In some ways it's easier, because of the immediate feedback of
feeling what the aircraft is doing. Plus you don't have to reverse your
thinking when you fly back toward the field. ;-)

" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hey guys thanks a bunch for the comments and your experiences! Really
> appreciated.
>
> I'm going to call up the Puget Sound Soaring Association to see if they
> are flying this weekend. Assuming it doesn't rain! they operate at
> Bergseth Airfield in Enumclaw, WA. Only about an hour from Seattle
> where I'm at.
>
> I used to fly scale RC sailplanes decades ago. Had a Glasflugel 604
> with a 12ft wingspan, custom winglets, flaps and modified airfoil cross
> section. Time to do it for real.
>
> Victor
>
>

[[email protected]]

I was in this position several years ago, and I have to echo that while
soaring is great, powered flying can go on year round.
I ended up soloing in powered first, then years later started gliding,
got the PP-glider rating, followed it up with a motorglider
endorsement; and THEN went and got PP-SEL.

>From an efficiency standpoint it is better use of your time to get
powered out of the way first, then you only have to take one written
test (at least in the US). Taking two writtens was a pain, not really
hard, just a pain with a busy schedule.

Unfortunately I live in an area without any clubs or commercial
operators within an hours drive so I end up flying powered most of the
time. I used to own a Ka-6CR (and an Ercoupe) and while I'd love a
motorglider, there are very few that are reasonably priced that would
fit in my hanger (ie I need folding wings). There are very few for sale
to begin with anyway.

Ryan

[lucky_day]

Hi Victor,

I got my power rating first. Flew maybe 100 hours in 13 years... then
got a tail wheel checkout in a cub. The process of getting the private
pilot was fun and getting the additional tail wheel experience was even
more fun. I was getting tired of droning behind the prop at $100 / hr
so decided to try a glider lesson. I NEVER WENT BACK TO POWER! In two
years I racked up 200hrs in gliders and loved every minute of it.
Flying a glider to me is much more challenging and rewarding because it
is your skill and experience that is rewarded by great flights (at a
fraction of the cost too might I add). Flying a glider is more like
flying; flying a power plane is like driving the family car. You decide
which is more fun :=)

-JH

wrote:
> Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
> flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
> But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
> - then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
> both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?
>
> cheers, Victor

[bumper]

"lucky_day" > wrote in message
ups.com...
Flying a glider is more like
> flying; flying a power plane is like driving the family car. You decide
> which is more fun :=)
>
> -JH

No argument on the glider part, but how do you arrive at equating flying
power to driving a family car? You've obviously led a sheltered power plane
life!! My bet is you've never flown a Husky A1-B on big tires to some back
country strips in Idaho! Now that's fun!!! (and so is soaring)
--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)>
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

Quiet Vent kit and MKII high tech Yaw String

[Jack]

bumper wrote:
> "lucky_day" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> Flying a glider is more like
>> flying; flying a power plane is like driving the family car. You decide
>> which is more fun :=)
>>
>> -JH
>
> No argument on the glider part, but how do you arrive at equating flying
> power to driving a family car? You've obviously led a sheltered power plane
> life!! My bet is you've never flown a Husky A1-B on big tires to some back
> country strips in Idaho! Now that's fun!!! (and so is soaring)

Right you are, bumper!

There's all kinds of flying to be done. If the OP thinks his type of
power plane flying is like driving the family car, I'd like to see his
family car -- but I would not like to see his power plane. ;)


Jack

[Jack[_4_]]

Glider only... Oh, and I fly R/C... again, glider only. I built a model
with a prop when I was 12 or 13. First flight, I picked the end of my
thumb up off the ground and taped it back on. Doctor later washed it
good and taped it back on again. It's still there, but a constant
reminder that "I don't need no stinking propellers..." But then again,
they do come in handy on the tow plane... Yep, I've got my smart @$$
hat on again, but I wear it so well...

Jack Womack

[[email protected]]

Ouch! that's funny.

Ever been chased by you own R/C plane? I have. LOL

Victor


Jack wrote:
> Glider only... Oh, and I fly R/C... again, glider only. I built a model
> with a prop when I was 12 or 13. First flight, I picked the end of my
> thumb up off the ground and taped it back on. Doctor later washed it
> good and taped it back on again. It's still there, but a constant
> reminder that "I don't need no stinking propellers..." But then again,
> they do come in handy on the tow plane... Yep, I've got my smart @$$
> hat on again, but I wear it so well...
>
> Jack Womack

[bumper]

Well, you *do* have to be a might faster than the prop. I think that's why
they invented the chicken-stick and the electric starter.

Props can be substantially more of a problem when hand-propping the old
classics, like the Aeronca Champ I had (from '91 until earlier this year).

Still, there is a certain satisfaction one gets when flinging the wood
results in a puff of smoke, a cough or two, and then a smooth running
engine. More manly than simply twisting a key to start.

bumper
"Jack" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Glider only... Oh, and I fly R/C... again, glider only. I built a model
> with a prop when I was 12 or 13. First flight, I picked the end of my
> thumb up off the ground and taped it back on. Doctor later washed it
> good and taped it back on again. It's still there, but a constant
> reminder that "I don't need no stinking propellers..." But then again,
> they do come in handy on the tow plane... Yep, I've got my smart @$$
> hat on again, but I wear it so well...
>
> Jack Womack
>

[Marc Ramsey]

bumper wrote:
> Still, there is a certain satisfaction one gets when flinging the wood
> results in a puff of smoke, a cough or two, and then a smooth running
> engine. More manly than simply twisting a key to start.

You don't see it so much anymore, but back when I first started flying
in the early 70s, it took me a while to figure out why a number of the
older pilots were missing fingers on one hand...

Marc

[bumper]

"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
...
> bumper wrote:
>> Still, there is a certain satisfaction one gets when flinging the wood
>> results in a puff of smoke, a cough or two, and then a smooth running
>> engine. More manly than simply twisting a key to start.
>
> You don't see it so much anymore, but back when I first started flying in
> the early 70s, it took me a while to figure out why a number of the older
> pilots were missing fingers on one hand...
>
> Marc

Marc,

You made me stop and count 'em (g). If done properly, it's reasonably safe.
I think more aircraft were lost than fingers, hands, or larger body parts.
There've been more'n a couple of Aeroncas that departed the strip by
themselves. One even did a credible job of landing after about 1.5 hours.
Another, near Lake Berryessa, CA, was only fit for salvage after its
sans-pilot escapade.

IIRC, the would-be-pilots in both cases were uninjured but more than a
little unhappy.

bumper

[Marc Ramsey]

bumper wrote:
> You made me stop and count 'em (g). If done properly, it's reasonably safe.
> I think more aircraft were lost than fingers, hands, or larger body parts.

I suspect most of the old-timers fingers were lost hand propping engines
a bit larger than an A-65...