the New Tiger

[Dice]

Since I started working on my ticket, and now my instrument, I have been in
love with the new Tigers from day one of my training. I can think about
buying a plane now, and I'm disappointed that the New Tiger outfit tanked.
There are a number of them on Controller and other sites for sale. Is it
prudent to buy an orphaned aircraft brand? Do these planes have design or
performance issues? I know I'll lose a bunch of market value --depreciation
bucks because they're orphaned but I don't care; it'll be on Uncle Sam's
dime. For me its a toss-up between a Diamond and the New Tiger, and frankly
I prefer a yoke. Would love to hear from Tiger/Grumman boosters out there.
Thanks in advance.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

Dice wrote:
> Since I started working on my ticket, and now my instrument, I have been in
> love with the new Tigers from day one of my training.

The AA5x-series aircraft are fun to fly... I wouldn't buy one of the new
ones since I can't see paying that much money for an aircraft that does
not have air-conditioning... Hey, I live in the Houston area,
air-conditioning would be a nice thing to have...

> Is it prudent to buy an orphaned aircraft brand?

I bought my 1978 AA5A for probably around $35K with a mid-time engine
somewhere around 12 years ago... I've since that time gone over TBO on
that engine and probably spent around $15K for an engine overhaul... As
such, I insure it for a hull value of $50K... Maybe it doesn't have as
nice of an interior as the new Tigers, but if that was a big concern for
me, I could probably spend a grand or two and have a nice leather
interior put in it... Parts are still available for it via FletchAir and
some other companies... Yeah, maybe it's not manufacturer supported
anymore, but it hasn't been a problem for me during the last 12 years...
The Tiger has 20 more HP than my Cheetah since I have the 160 hp O-320
STC... Handling is the same since they are basically the same
airframe... Go to http://www.grumman.net for more information... There
is a Grumman mailing list, but it is one of those censored type of lists
that if you post something which the owner of the list considers not
strictly Grumman related, he will kick you off the list... There is also
a Yahoo Grumman group that is not censored that you might prefer...

> Do these planes have design or performance issues?

They are a rather nimble aircraft with great visibility... If you find
yourself having trouble seeing over the panel on a 172 unless you crank
the seat up or add a booster cushion, you will especially like the
AA5x-series...

> I know I'll lose a bunch of market value --depreciation bucks because
> they're orphaned

You'll lose depreciation on a new aircraft... If you are buying one that
is a few years old, you come out OK though... Or if you just keep the
aircraft long enough that inflation causes the value of your aircraft to
go up...


> For me its a toss-up between a Diamond and the New Tiger, and frankly
> I prefer a yoke.

I have flown the Diamond Katana (DA-20)... A factory salesman had
contacted me and wanted me to give it a try for a possible purchase for
a leaseback for a flight school... It was a nice looking plane, but the
roll rate was noticeably slower than my AA5A... The glass aircraft sure
do produce a nice finish on them though... I would say that the Katana
probably had a roll rate perhaps a bit better than a 172... I hated the
roll rate on the 172... It felt like I was trying to fly a large
truck... The AA5x-series has a considerably better roll rate... Very
nimble flier...

[Jim Macklin]

Major components are still supported by the engine,
instruments and avionics manufactures. Airframe parts
should be available for some time, either new or used.
Issues on future airframe problems, such as de-bonding or
corrosion should be investigated with a very complete
pre-purchase inspection.




"Grumman-581" > wrote
in message ...
| Dice wrote:
| > Since I started working on my ticket, and now my
instrument, I have been in
| > love with the new Tigers from day one of my training.
|
| The AA5x-series aircraft are fun to fly... I wouldn't buy
one of the new
| ones since I can't see paying that much money for an
aircraft that does
| not have air-conditioning... Hey, I live in the Houston
area,
| air-conditioning would be a nice thing to have...
|
| > Is it prudent to buy an orphaned aircraft brand?
|
| I bought my 1978 AA5A for probably around $35K with a
mid-time engine
| somewhere around 12 years ago... I've since that time gone
over TBO on
| that engine and probably spent around $15K for an engine
overhaul... As
| such, I insure it for a hull value of $50K... Maybe it
doesn't have as
| nice of an interior as the new Tigers, but if that was a
big concern for
| me, I could probably spend a grand or two and have a nice
leather
| interior put in it... Parts are still available for it via
FletchAir and
| some other companies... Yeah, maybe it's not manufacturer
supported
| anymore, but it hasn't been a problem for me during the
last 12 years...
| The Tiger has 20 more HP than my Cheetah since I have the
160 hp O-320
| STC... Handling is the same since they are basically the
same
| airframe... Go to http://www.grumman.net for more
information... There
| is a Grumman mailing list, but it is one of those censored
type of lists
| that if you post something which the owner of the list
considers not
| strictly Grumman related, he will kick you off the list...
There is also
| a Yahoo Grumman group that is not censored that you might
prefer...
|
| > Do these planes have design or performance issues?
|
| They are a rather nimble aircraft with great visibility...
If you find
| yourself having trouble seeing over the panel on a 172
unless you crank
| the seat up or add a booster cushion, you will especially
like the
| AA5x-series...
|
| > I know I'll lose a bunch of market value --depreciation
bucks because
| > they're orphaned
|
| You'll lose depreciation on a new aircraft... If you are
buying one that
| is a few years old, you come out OK though... Or if you
just keep the
| aircraft long enough that inflation causes the value of
your aircraft to
| go up...
|
|
| > For me its a toss-up between a Diamond and the New
Tiger, and frankly
| > I prefer a yoke.
|
| I have flown the Diamond Katana (DA-20)... A factory
salesman had
| contacted me and wanted me to give it a try for a possible
purchase for
| a leaseback for a flight school... It was a nice looking
plane, but the
| roll rate was noticeably slower than my AA5A... The glass
aircraft sure
| do produce a nice finish on them though... I would say
that the Katana
| probably had a roll rate perhaps a bit better than a
172... I hated the
| roll rate on the 172... It felt like I was trying to fly a
large
| truck... The AA5x-series has a considerably better roll
rate... Very
| nimble flier...

[[email protected]]

"Dice" > wrote:
> Is it prudent to buy an orphaned aircraft brand?

I had a 1961 Shinn/Varga ... they went out of biz in 1980 with less than
200 made. There are probably 150 still flying. A relatively minor repair
snowballed into a major restoration. Even with a plane that old and
"orphaned," the engine is a Lycoming-0320, so getting parts for that was
not a problem. The Varga-specific parts are not easy, but not
impossible, and if you need it, someone else likely has likely needed it
too and has found a solution, complete with FAA approval.

I'm sure there's a Tiger *club*. These clubs are a GREAT resource for
doing repairs and finding parts as well as for telling you all the
nuances and quirks (if there are any) of the airplane and its
performance issues/highlights.

>For me its a toss-up between a Diamond and the New Tiger,
>and frankly I prefer a yoke.

Have you ever flown a stick? If not, I would just encourage you to fly
one for a few hours.

[gatt]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...

> I bought my 1978 AA5A for probably around $35K with a mid-time engine
> somewhere around 12 years ago...

Great price for a great little airplane! I'm a big fan of AA5s. The '78
that I rented sold for $29,000 cash and I was furious because had the FBO
told me they wanted to sell it, I'd have made a higher bid.

I met a P-38 vet who flew a Cheetah. He said there was nothing comparable
to flying a P-38, but that something about the Cheetah reminded him of
flying Lightnings. (At least, the closest thing to flying a P-38 that wife
would ride in with him.) Strange because the have virtually nothing in
common except the canopy and the nosewheel.

>The AA5x-series has a considerably better roll rate... Very nimble
>flier...

That might have been what he meant about the Cheetah. Both Cheetas and
Tigers have a very sporty feel about them, not to mention that great
visibility.

-c

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

gatt wrote:
> Strange because the have virtually nothing in
> common except the canopy and the nosewheel.

Interesting... I didn't know that the P-38 had a full castering nosewheel...

> That might have been what he meant about the Cheetah. Both Cheetas and
> Tigers have a very sporty feel about them, not to mention that great
> visibility.

Well, it doesn't have the roll rate of the S2B that I flew, but it's not
to bad compared to the other spam cans that are its competitors... It
will do a roll fairly nicely, albeit considerably slower than the S2B...
The AA1-series rolls a lot better since it has about 8 ft less
wingspan... I've flown them also, but never owned one... That full
bubble canopy does tend to get a bit warm on a bright summer day though...

[KevinBlack]

Grumman Gang and AYA, I don't own a grumman, but I get their e-mail
newsletter. These aircraft have probably some of the best
(group/association) support in the US as far as I can tell. So the support
side isn't an issue.

start at www.aya.org

Cheers,

> wrote in message
...
> "Dice" > wrote:
>> Is it prudent to buy an orphaned aircraft brand?
>
> I had a 1961 Shinn/Varga ... they went out of biz in 1980 with less than
> 200 made. There are probably 150 still flying. A relatively minor repair
> snowballed into a major restoration. Even with a plane that old and
> "orphaned," the engine is a Lycoming-0320, so getting parts for that was
> not a problem. The Varga-specific parts are not easy, but not
> impossible, and if you need it, someone else likely has likely needed it
> too and has found a solution, complete with FAA approval.
>
> I'm sure there's a Tiger *club*. These clubs are a GREAT resource for
> doing repairs and finding parts as well as for telling you all the
> nuances and quirks (if there are any) of the airplane and its
> performance issues/highlights.
>
>>For me its a toss-up between a Diamond and the New Tiger,
>>and frankly I prefer a yoke.
>
> Have you ever flown a stick? If not, I would just encourage you to fly
> one for a few hours.