Maydays this weekend

[Nathan Young]

Flying home this weekend (Eastern Tennessee to Chicago) I heard
airliners relaying two separate Maydays for light GA planes.

One of the planes went down, contact was lost, and an ELT was
activated.

The other went down in a field, and was apparently in good enough
shape to relay to the airliner that they were ok.

Sobering thoughts as I cruised over the hilly terrain of Tennessee and
Kentucky. Be careful out there.

-Nathan

[Jay Honeck]

> Sobering thoughts as I cruised over the hilly terrain of Tennessee and
> Kentucky. Be careful out there.

Indeed. The weather here Sunday was so perfect, so gorgeous -- almost
70, crystal clear, light winds -- that we never, ever wanted to land.
(Although we found a wonderful new on-field restaurant in Waterloo, IA
[ALO], if you ever get that-away...great Sunday brunch!)

Yet, always, not far from my mind, is the chance that the big fan out
front might stop turning, and I'm always mindful of the location of
flat fields, wind and furrow direction...

Luckily, flying in the Midwest usually means plenty of good landing
spots, especially at this time of year -- but it's still always a risk.
After seeing the picture (on Cherokee Chat) of the guy whose
crankshaft completely sheared in half while in CRUISE flight, you
really comprehend how many things can go wrong inside our engines...
(He landed safely -- incredibly, the engine was still making power!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

> Yet, always, not far from my mind, is the chance that the big fan out
> front might stop turning, and I'm always mindful of the location of
> flat fields, wind and furrow direction...


The mention of fields and and furrows reminds me of the story from when
I was learning to fly at the University of Illinois, one of the Beech
Sports had an engine failure and they put it into a corn field in late
summer, and even though they walked away, the airframe was pretty much
beat to s__t by all the nice big ears of corn!
Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
choice!

Ryan

Jay-I was also looking at your video site last night and the zero G dog
video had me laughing so hard I had tears...!
I'm trying to get one of my colleagues to send you some UW MedFlight
helicopter video (from landing at scenes) he has put together.
(fortunately no crashes, so not as dramatic as some of the helo ops
video you have).

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

wrote:
> The mention of fields and and furrows reminds me of the story from when
> I was learning to fly at the University of Illinois, one of the Beech
> Sports had an engine failure and they put it into a corn field in late
> summer, and even though they walked away, the airframe was pretty much
> beat to s__t by all the nice big ears of corn!
> Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
> choice!


Are you sure? It seems to me landing in a cornfield will guarantee you don't
hit a tree, don't drown, and will slow down rapidly but not too rapidly. Your
aircraft may get trashed but you can always get another. I don't care about the
airplane. I care about *me*.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Peter Duniho]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
>> Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
>> choice!
>
> Are you sure? It seems to me landing in a cornfield will guarantee you
> don't hit a tree, don't drown, and will slow down rapidly but not too
> rapidly. Your aircraft may get trashed but you can always get another. I
> don't care about the airplane. I care about *me*.

He *did* write "if I have a choice". You even quoted that part. I think
it's safe to assume by "choice" me means "if there's a better option".
Obviously, one wouldn't choose a dense forest over an open corn field.

[[email protected]]

that's why I said "if given a choice"

We have plenty of soybean, wheat, oats, pastures, and every other type
of field (and fallow fields) in this part of the world (that Jay and I
fly in). Plus the occasional golf course, and I'm suprised by the grass
strips that I continually find that I never knew were there, just found
one the other day not 10 miles from my home airport that I didn't know
existed, and most aren't on the charts. Good to keep in mind (and it's
come in handy for my work on a medical helicopter).

Otherwise, if a corn field is your best bet, then I won't argue. Take
it.

The English gliding magazine "Sailplane and Gliding" had a whole series
a few years ago on how to recognise various crops from the air at
different times of the year; and which were ok for landing out in and
those that weren't. Kind of interesting reading. Does have some
applicability to powered flying and emergencies.

Just stay off the roads!
And stay away from the really dark fields with lots of gulls or other
birds hanging out, you won't like the smell when you open your door!!!

Ryan

[Jay Honeck]

> Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
> choice!

True, but you for SURE don't want to choose a bean field instead. The
beans grow so densely that you'll land in 'em and they will tangle your
gear and stop you just like *that* -- or so the gray heads tell us.

Funny, before I moved to Iowa, I wouldn't have been able to tell the
difference between the two crops from the air.

> Jay-I was also looking at your video site last night and the zero G dog
> video had me laughing so hard I had tears...!

Yeah, "Float the Dog" is everyone's SECOND favorite, right after "Bird
Gone" -- which seems to either delight or enrage viewers. See it in
the "Weird" section. (And don't watch "Cat Gone" if you're a cat
lover...even though it's all CG, it STILL aggravated the PETA crowd...
;-)

> I'm trying to get one of my colleagues to send you some UW MedFlight
> helicopter video (from landing at scenes) he has put together.
> (fortunately no crashes, so not as dramatic as some of the helo ops
> video you have).

That would be great! Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Scott Post]

In article . com>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
>> choice!
>
>True, but you for SURE don't want to choose a bean field instead. The
>beans grow so densely that you'll land in 'em and they will tangle your
>gear and stop you just like *that* -- or so the gray heads tell us.

I really wonder about this bit of wisdom. I'd heard it too while
hanging around the FBO. A week before my checkride I was up with an
instructor doing maneuvers when we lost the engine. We put down in a
soybean field (August, so they were plenty grown). It had rained for
three days previously so the ground was very soft. The nose gear
collapsed and we ended up inverted. I walked our landing path and you
could see where the nose gear gradually dug in deeper. There weren't
any bean vines stuck in the wheels or landing gear so I'm skeptical
about the whole "beans grabbing the gear" legend. Mud is what did us
in.


--
Scott Post

[Nathan Young]

On 6 Nov 2006 14:51:08 -0800, "Longworth" >
wrote:

> I am a 'nervous' flyer. While I enjoy flying tremendously, I
>could never totally relax sitting in either seat. In VMC, I am always
>scouting for potential landing sites, checking for wind directions,
>pushing the 'nearest airport' button on the GPS, every so often while
>estimating my glide distance etc. In IMC, I always cross-check the GPS
>with VORs, ADF and have my hand-held radio handy. We also keep a dozen
>or so of spare batteries of several kinds (lithium, alkaline,
>rechargeable) along with a handful of flashlights, emergency medical
>and survival kits.

Sounds exactly like me. I always have an airport in mind or a spot
picked to land...

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>> Sobering thoughts as I cruised over the hilly terrain of Tennessee and
>> Kentucky. Be careful out there.
>
>>snip>>
>
> Yet, always, not far from my mind, is the chance that the big fan out
> front might stop turning, and I'm always mindful of the location of
> flat fields, wind and furrow direction...
>
<<snip>>
> --
> Jay Honeck


Speaking of engine failure, what is the power off glide ratio of the
Pathfinder, Jay?

KB

[john smith]

In article >,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote:

> wrote:
> > The mention of fields and and furrows reminds me of the story from when
> > I was learning to fly at the University of Illinois, one of the Beech
> > Sports had an engine failure and they put it into a corn field in late
> > summer, and even though they walked away, the airframe was pretty much
> > beat to s__t by all the nice big ears of corn!
> > Note to self: don't put it into a corn field in late summer if I have a
> > choice!
>
>
> Are you sure? It seems to me landing in a cornfield will guarantee you don't
> hit a tree, don't drown, and will slow down rapidly but not too rapidly.
> Your aircraft may get trashed but you can always get another. I don't care
> about the airplane. I care about *me*.

Not to mention how quickly corn will bring your aircraft to a stop.

[Sylvain]

john smith wrote:
>> Are you sure? It seems to me landing in a cornfield will guarantee you
>> don't hit a tree, don't drown, and will slow down rapidly but not too
>> rapidly.
>> Your aircraft may get trashed but you can always get another. I don't
>> care about the airplane. I care about *me*.
>
> Not to mention how quickly corn will bring your aircraft to a stop.

high crops are going to stop you real fast; and if you don't have
a shoulder harness you are going to get hurt. I haven't tried corn,
but did try with wheat, and it is a lot softer, and I wasn't going
too fast either (glider landing), yet I was really glad to have a
five point harness...

--Sylvain

[Jay Honeck]

> Speaking of engine failure, what is the power off glide ratio of the
> Pathfinder, Jay?

In technical terms, that would be known as a "load of sand" glide
ratio...

;-)

Although I take solace in noting that it's far better than a Swearingen
SX-300's glide ratio, which is in the "lead brick" category.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> After seeing the picture (on Cherokee Chat) of the guy whose
> crankshaft completely sheared in half while in CRUISE flight, you
> really comprehend how many things can go wrong inside our engines...
> (He landed safely -- incredibly, the engine was still making power!)

Wow! I would love to see some internal pictures and descriptions of that
engine. Any news reports or pilot blogs of the flight?

Was this one of the engines with the crankshaft retirement AD's?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"john smith" > wrote

> Not to mention how quickly corn will bring your aircraft to a stop.

Or how an ear of corn coming through a windshield and hitting you in the head at
50 MPH will feel !
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > Speaking of engine failure, what is the power off glide ratio of the
> > Pathfinder, Jay?
>
> In technical terms, that would be known as a "load of sand" glide
> ratio...
>
> ;-)
>
> Although I take solace in noting that it's far better than a Swearingen
> SX-300's glide ratio, which is in the "lead brick" category.

Jay,

The SX-300 has a great glide ratio -- considerably more than that
barndoor Piper! It just gets its best glide around 120 kt.

[Jay Honeck]

> Wow! I would love to see some internal pictures and descriptions of that
> engine. Any news reports or pilot blogs of the flight?
>
> Was this one of the engines with the crankshaft retirement AD's?

NO! That's the most scary part...

I'll let you know as I hear more. (The pix are on the Cherokee Chat
site, but you have to be a member to access 'em...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The SX-300 has a great glide ratio -- considerably more than that
> barndoor Piper! It just gets its best glide around 120 kt.

When I flew with Harry he pointed out a point on the ground that I
thought was quite close, and told me that if we lost the engine we
would NOT be able to make it to that point.

Those sleek, itty-bitty wings sure don't look like they'd carry you far
without power!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> When I flew with Harry he pointed out a point on the ground that I
> thought was quite close, and told me that if we lost the engine we
> would NOT be able to make it to that point.
>
> Those sleek, itty-bitty wings sure don't look like they'd carry you far
> without power!


I've deadsticked both a C-210 and a PA-32R before after the engines quit and
will tell you the Lance has the gliding characteristics of a refridgerator.
With gear and flaps up, prop full back, the 210 came down at 700 fpm with a
heavy load on board while the Lance came down at 1200 fpm with a very light
load.

I'm not a big fan of Pipers when it comes to gliding. Lucky for me I haven't
had to do much of it.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Kevin Clarke]

Longworth wrote:
In VMC, I am always
> scouting for potential landing sites, checking for wind directions,
> pushing the 'nearest airport' button on the GPS, every so often while
> estimating my glide distance etc. In IMC, I always cross-check the GPS
> with VORs, ADF and have my hand-held radio handy. We also keep a dozen
> or so of spare batteries of several kinds (lithium, alkaline,
> rechargeable) along with a handful of flashlights, emergency medical
> and survival kits. We fly over the lakes only in the summer while
> wearing life jackets with our wetsuits nearby.

Adding to that last, switch my tanks when I'm near an airport, give
planes spotted in the air a wide berth ...

I was up this weekend with a non-pilot friend of mine and I was telling
him what I was doing and why I was doing it. It is amazing to me how
many things are now routine. Things I wasn't really taught in flight
training but I've either learned as best practices or invented myself as
a means of increasing the odds.

The strangest part to me in all of flying is how so much of it dwells on
"death avoidance". You don't get a lot of discussion on flying enjoyment
during your training. It is the ironic part of the PPL and IFR ticket.

KC

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>> After seeing the picture (on Cherokee Chat) of the guy whose
>> crankshaft completely sheared in half while in CRUISE flight, you
>> really comprehend how many things can go wrong inside our engines...

I attended a terrific Wings seminar where a guy presented his
experiences in a Mooney with the same failure @ 8000 over Florida. He
eventually landed safely @ JAX NAS. The presentation included ATC
recordings, excellent photos, and some great Q&A.

Both events underscore the options available to a cool head in a serious
emergency!

[Jay Honeck]

> The strangest part to me in all of flying is how so much of it dwells on
> "death avoidance". You don't get a lot of discussion on flying enjoyment
> during your training. It is the ironic part of the PPL and IFR ticket.

Perhaps this is another reason why the pilot population is shrinking?
The lawyers and insurance companies have made "accident avoidance" so
important that we're just no concentrating on flying enjoyment anymore?

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Stefan]

Jay Honeck schrieb:

> The lawyers and insurance companies have made "accident avoidance" so
> important that we're just no concentrating on flying enjoyment anymore?

Actually, "accident avoidance" has always been pretty important to me
while flying, regardless of lawyers and insurances.

Stefan

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Perhaps this is another reason why the pilot population is shrinking?

At least here in the US, I always thought the effort required had more
to do with it. It isn't easy, and you can't learn it in one evening.

Shopping and spectator sports seem to be growing, while many activities
that require practice, participation, research, and/or study are in
decline. How often do you see questions on Usenet or web forums that
are easily answered in the owner's manual of the device the poster is
trying to use? You know, "How do I program the radio presets in my new
car?" type stuff.

Two of my other interests are radio control aircraft and fine
woodworking. In r/c, more and more people simply buy a Chinese made
airplane, crash it within 5 flights, throw it away, and give up, rather
than building something themselves, learning to fly it, repairing it if
it's damaged, and trying until some success is achieved. The
woodworking hobby is filled with expensive devices meant to replace
basic skills that "take too much time to learn." The devices rarely
work, so eBay and many home workshops are filled with nearly new
devices, and the buyer loses interest in the activity.

What I find really odd is that the Internet brings so much information
_TO_ us, it's easier than ever to learn new skills and find answers
fast. Not that long ago, we had to travel to a library, dig out a card
or microfiche, and search through some sort of publication to get
information. <G>

Sorry for the rant...

[RK Henry]

On 7 Nov 2006 04:47:03 -0800, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>> The strangest part to me in all of flying is how so much of it dwells on
>> "death avoidance". You don't get a lot of discussion on flying enjoyment
>> during your training. It is the ironic part of the PPL and IFR ticket.
>
>Perhaps this is another reason why the pilot population is shrinking?
>The lawyers and insurance companies have made "accident avoidance" so
>important that we're just no concentrating on flying enjoyment anymore?

I find flying enjoyable enough without accidents, thank you very much.
RK Henry

[Kingfish]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Yeah, "Float the Dog" is everyone's SECOND favorite, right after "Bird
> Gone" -- which seems to either delight or enrage viewers. See it in
> the "Weird" section. (And don't watch "Cat Gone" if you're a cat
> lover...even though it's all CG, it STILL aggravated the PETA crowd...

I've had those two Ford Ka commercials for a few years now. The fact
that they **** off the PETA types guarantees I'll keep them
indefinitely...

[Kingfish]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Yeah, "Float the Dog" is everyone's SECOND favorite, right after "Bird
> Gone" -- which seems to either delight or enrage viewers. See it in
> the "Weird" section. (And don't watch "Cat Gone" if you're a cat
> lover...even though it's all CG, it STILL aggravated the PETA crowd...

I've had those two Ford Ka commercials for a few years now. The fact
that they **** off the PETA types guarantees I'll keep them
indefinitely...

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Yeah, "Float the Dog" is everyone's SECOND favorite, right after "Bird
> Gone" -- which seems to either delight or enrage viewers. See it in
> the "Weird" section. (And don't watch "Cat Gone" if you're a cat
> lover...even though it's all CG, it STILL aggravated the PETA crowd...
> ;-)

PETA as in "People Eating Tasty Animals"?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article om>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > The SX-300 has a great glide ratio -- considerably more than that
> > barndoor Piper! It just gets its best glide around 120 kt.
>
> When I flew with Harry he pointed out a point on the ground that I
> thought was quite close, and told me that if we lost the engine we
> would NOT be able to make it to that point.
>
> Those sleek, itty-bitty wings sure don't look like they'd carry you far
> without power!


If you keep it clean, the L/D is a lot better than the Piper, but at a
cost of rather high speed (hence, a fairly high sink rate).

Dirty, it drops like a rock (a bit like my Rocket when dirty).

The secret of good glide ratio is to keep it clean, with the prop all
the way back, and drop gear and flaps only after the field is made.

[Kingfish]

wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Yeah, "Float the Dog" is everyone's SECOND favorite, right after "Bird
> > Gone" -- which seems to either delight or enrage viewers. See it in
> > the "Weird" section. (And don't watch "Cat Gone" if you're a cat
> > lover...even though it's all CG, it STILL aggravated the PETA crowd...
> > ;-)
>
> PETA as in "People Eating Tasty Animals"?

'zacktly

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote

> I'm not a big fan of Pipers when it comes to gliding. Lucky for me I haven't
> had to do much of it.

Is the wing loading that much different? Are there other factors?
--
Jim in NC