DUMB ROOKIE QUESTION

[Travis Beach]

OK...just getting starting in all of this...bought
my first ship and now looking to update the panel...so
heres the question...with the use of PDA driven Glide
Computers, moving maps and recently OLC approval on
the GPS logging...why would someone still spend $2K
+ on a GPS Logger? I mean with the computing power
of a PDA coupled to a GPS or GPS card and the software
from SeeYouMobile and others...why would you carry
a GPS logger?

[flying_monkey[_1_]]

Well, one reason would be to count flights toward badges or records.
But a basic logger doesn't have to cost anywhere near that. Paul Remde
has the Colibri for $945, the Volkslogger for $995, and the new EW for
$765.

Ed

Travis Beach wrote:
> OK...just getting starting in all of this...bought
> my first ship and now looking to update the panel...so
> heres the question...with the use of PDA driven Glide
> Computers, moving maps and recently OLC approval on
> the GPS logging...why would someone still spend $2K
> + on a GPS Logger? I mean with the computing power
> of a PDA coupled to a GPS or GPS card and the software
> from SeeYouMobile and others...why would you carry
> a GPS logger?

[Mal]

why would you carry
>> a GPS logger?
>

To get badges http://www.fai.org/gliding/

HTH

www.mals.net

[BB]

Travis Beach wrote:
> OK...just getting starting in all of this...bought
> my first ship and now looking to update the panel...so
> heres the question...with the use of PDA driven Glide
> Computers, moving maps and recently OLC approval on
> the GPS logging...why would someone still spend $2K
> + on a GPS Logger? I mean with the computing power
> of a PDA coupled to a GPS or GPS card and the software
> from SeeYouMobile and others...why would you carry
> a GPS logger?

GPS cards attached to a PDA are not legally accepted for US contests.
Many scorers take them anyway, and don't ask where igc files come from,
but you can't be sure of that. You don't need a certified logger, but
you do need something that internally produces a trace with altitude
info, not just the igc file produced in the PDA by seeyou mobile, GNII
or similar. You can also bug the rules committee to change this, at
least for regionals, as I do annually.

John Cochrane BB

[Marc Ramsey]

BB wrote:
> GPS cards attached to a PDA are not legally accepted for US contests.
> Many scorers take them anyway, and don't ask where igc files come from,
> but you can't be sure of that. You don't need a certified logger, but
> you do need something that internally produces a trace with altitude
> info, not just the igc file produced in the PDA by seeyou mobile, GNII
> or similar. You can also bug the rules committee to change this, at
> least for regionals, as I do annually.

That's a great idea! Since I write my own navigation and IGC file
flight recording software, I'll be able to get that extra 5% of
performance I need to win on a consistent basis, without buying a new
glider 8^)

Seriously, though, there are numerous off-the-shelf consumer GPS units
with recording capability, that meet both the letter and spirit of US
regional and national contest rules, and there are some that cost well
under $150 new. Hopefully, within a few years the IGC will also allow
their use to document Silver and Gold badges...

Marc

[BB]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
>
> That's a great idea! Since I write my own navigation and IGC file
> flight recording software, I'll be able to get that extra 5% of
> performance I need to win on a consistent basis, without buying a new
> glider 8^)
>
> Seriously, though, there are numerous off-the-shelf consumer GPS units
> with recording capability, that meet both the letter and spirit of US
> regional and national contest rules, and there are some that cost well
> under $150 new. Hopefully, within a few years the IGC will also allow
> their use to document Silver and Gold badges...
>
> Marc

P3 convinced me offine, that though making your speed look better is
not a real-world problem, using a text editor to change one or two
fixes to elminate a misstep into class C, start gate height, a fix at
17,501, a missed turnpoint, etc. really is real-world issue. So let's
spend the $150 and stick with the Garmin as minimal equipment

John Cochrane BB

[Stewart Kissel]

why would you carry a GPS logger?

A.) Badge flying...which still can be done with camera
and barograph?

B.) To join the 5-10% of pilots who fly contests.

C.) OLC....


Cameras and barograph have been all but replaced by
loggers, for recreational type flying...a logger is
an expensive extra. Because of the nature of our sport,
some pilots will attempt to cheat if given the chance...hence
secure data loggers. Now if someone wants so desperately
to get a Silver Badge that they would cheat, I say
give it to them.

[Shawn]

Stewart Kissel wrote:
> why would you carry a GPS logger?
>
> A.) Badge flying...which still can be done with camera
> and barograph?
>
> B.) To join the 5-10% of pilots who fly contests.
>
> C.) OLC....
>
>
> Cameras and barograph have been all but replaced by
> loggers, for recreational type flying...a logger is
> an expensive extra. Because of the nature of our sport,
> some pilots will attempt to cheat if given the chance...hence
> secure data loggers. Now if someone wants so desperately
> to get a Silver Badge that they would cheat, I say
> give it to them.

Probably harder to fix the data than fly Silver in a Lingus 2bL8

Shawn

[Mal]

"Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
message ...
> why would you carry a GPS logger?
>
> A.) Badge flying...which still can be done with camera
> and barograph?

Yes download that and reply your flight!
>
> B.) To join the 5-10% of pilots who fly contests.

Why not who likes flying circuits
>
> C.) OLC....
>
>
> Cameras and barograph have been all but replaced by
> loggers, for recreational type flying...a logger is
> an expensive extra. Because of the nature of our sport,
> some pilots will attempt to cheat if given the chance...hence
> secure data loggers. Now if someone wants so desperately
> to get a Silver Badge that they would cheat, I say
> give it to them.
>
>
>

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Stewart Kissel wrote:

> Because of the nature of our sport,
> some pilots will attempt to cheat if given the chance...hence
> secure data loggers. Now if someone wants so desperately
> to get a Silver Badge that they would cheat, I say
> give it to them.
>
I'd rather not have them round any place I'm flying, thank you very much.

Would you really trust anybody who would cheat on a badge to help with
anything, e.g., doing positives, checking all clear above and behind,
keeping the log?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I certainly do wish that PDA/GPS systems were approved for all soaring
flights. But at this time they can't be used for:
- Badges
- Records
- US Contests
- FAI-OLC (OLC contest requiring FAI triangles)
- OLC League (OLC Speed Contest)

They can be used for OLC Classic.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"flying_monkey" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well, one reason would be to count flights toward badges or records.
> But a basic logger doesn't have to cost anywhere near that. Paul Remde
> has the Colibri for $945, the Volkslogger for $995, and the new EW for
> $765.
>
> Ed
>
> Travis Beach wrote:
>> OK...just getting starting in all of this...bought
>> my first ship and now looking to update the panel...so
>> heres the question...with the use of PDA driven Glide
>> Computers, moving maps and recently OLC approval on
>> the GPS logging...why would someone still spend $2K
>> + on a GPS Logger? I mean with the computing power
>> of a PDA coupled to a GPS or GPS card and the software
>> from SeeYouMobile and others...why would you carry
>> a GPS logger?
>