Do you always have oxygen?

[Mxsmanic]

I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes. It seems like it
would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs. Do
oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
measured? Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
wear?

--
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[Steve Foley]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
>I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,

It would be pretty hard to breathe if there was no oxygen on board.

[Jose[_1_]]

>> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,

I don't, and suspect that most span canners don't. Oxygen starts to be
required above 12,500 in some cases, and is always required above 14,000
(unless it's a pressurized airplane). Most spam canners probably fly a
few thousand to ten thousand feet MSL.

It's been reported that for some, especially at night, altitudes above
5000 feet cause noticable impairment. Nonin makes a fingertip device
(pulse oxymeter) to measure blood oxygen saturation. I'm curious myself
as to what my readings would be. However, it's a $300 device, and I
don't often fly that high anyway.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Steve Foley]

"Jose" > wrote in message
et...
>>> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
>
> I don't, and suspect that most span canners don't.

How do you remove the oxygen from the air in your cabin?

[Sylvain]

Jose wrote:

> It's been reported that for some, especially at night, altitudes above
> 5000 feet cause noticable impairment.

I didn't really believe it either until I bought a portable system and
experimented at night; the difference is indeed noticeable (and I am not a
smoker); even when not flying high, it also makes a noticeable difference
I noticed on long cross country flights (you arrived much less tired at
the end)

I bought the system after coming back from a high altitude
training at Beale AFB and I would recommend this training to any pilot:

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/aerospace_physiology/

> > Nonin makes a fingertip device
> (pulse oxymeter) to measure blood oxygen saturation. I'm curious myself
> as to what my readings would be. However, it's a $300 device, and I
> don't often fly that high anyway.

You now find devices -- different brand called Check Mate -- for half
that price. Refilling costs varies considerably from one location to
another one;

--Sylvain

[Stefan]

Sylvain schrieb:

> You now find devices -- different brand called Check Mate -- for half
> that price.

This one?
http://www.spytechs.com/equipment_other/checkmate.htm

[Blanche]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
>I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
>even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes. It seems like it
>would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs. Do
>oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
>measured? Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
>wear?

Per FAA and other rules, O2 containers must be checked and certified
every 5 years. Refilling the tank varies depending on the FBO doing
the refill.

Oddly enough, I am unable to have the tank refilled at a medical
supply shop because I don't have a prescription for O2.

www.mhoxygen.com
www.aerox.com
www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo1.htm
www.aviationoxygen.com

for details.

[Sylvain]

Stefan wrote:

> Sylvain schrieb:
>
>> You now find devices -- different brand called Check Mate -- for half
>> that price.
>
> This one?
> http://www.spytechs.com/equipment_other/checkmate.htm

:-) the importance of picking the right name for a product :-)

--Sylvain

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
> even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes. It seems like it
> would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs. Do
> oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
> measured? Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
> wear?

I usually do. Many of the rental planes keep a bottle in the back too.
I have a large bottle I bring for the family 4 place, but also a
smaller, more manageble bottle with just one port for myself in the
Mooney. Any cross country requires O2 durnig the day and most any
flight outside the pattern at night requires O2. One of the planning
items to consider when traveling is the cost of O2 refill. I've paid as
little as $20 and as much at $130 (quantity doesn't make any
difference, they're charging you labor to pour it). Typically the Jet
Centers in the SW have the best prices.

-Robert

[Jose[_1_]]

> How do you remove the oxygen from the air in your cabin?

By breathing. :)

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose[_1_]]

> Oddly enough, I am unable to have the tank refilled at a medical
> supply shop because I don't have a prescription for O2.

One can't even get a regular pulse oxymeter without a prescription.
They make special ones for pilot that don't require a prescription.
They are identical.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gene Seibel]

Never have had it.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



Mxsmanic wrote:
> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
> even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes. It seems like it
> would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs. Do
> oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
> measured? Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
> wear?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Jose" > wrote in message
et...
>>> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
>
<...>.
>
> It's been reported that for some, especially at night, altitudes above
> 5000 feet cause noticable impairment. Nonin makes a fingertip device
> (pulse oxymeter) to measure blood oxygen saturation. I'm curious myself
> as to what my readings would be. However, it's a $300 device, and I don't
> often fly that high anyway.
>

http://wingsandwheels.com/page35.htm down towards the bottom of the page -
$199


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

Always have an O2 tank on board- never know when we might need to go higher
during a long cross country. Although not required by reg, for prolonged
flight at around 10k or higher I always use it to keep my O2 sat at or
greater than 92%. I find that flights become a lot less tiring and I feel a
lot better. Flying at night it definitely helps the color discrimination and
night vision.

Agree with the recommendation about doing a chamber ride- it is a great
experience and worth the time and trouble of arranging. (of course, being in
the Air Force I don't have an option)

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
> even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes.

I carry it and will tend to use it if I know I'll spend time above
10K.


> It seems like it
> would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs.

The initial cost is the biggest impediment. Topping off the bottle
isn't that abd.

> Do
> oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
> measured?

You refill them as they get used. They need inspection every
5 or 10 years depending on construction or the fillers won't
refill them.

> Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
> wear?

Masks or nasal canuals and then some kind of flow regulator.
In the simplest form these are just needle valves with either
some sort of flow guage or just preset (by altitude) flow.
The fancier ones that use less O2 for a given effect, work
like scuba regulators in that they flow more while you are
inhaling and throttle back when you are not.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> I usually do. Many of the rental planes keep a bottle in the back too.
> I have a large bottle I bring for the family 4 place, but also a
> smaller, more manageble bottle with just one port for myself in the
> Mooney.

Is this just a device you set down on the seat beside you, or what?
How long does one bottle last? I presume it's automatically regulated
so that you use only as much oxygen as you need for the altitude?

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[Mxsmanic]

Viperdoc writes:

> Always have an O2 tank on board- never know when we might need to go higher
> during a long cross country. Although not required by reg, for prolonged
> flight at around 10k or higher I always use it to keep my O2 sat at or
> greater than 92%. I find that flights become a lot less tiring and I feel a
> lot better. Flying at night it definitely helps the color discrimination and
> night vision.

Is there a picture of the device somewhere on the Web? How do you
talk on the radio if you are wearing an oxygen mask, or is it just one
of those things that covers the nose?

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[Jon Woellhaf]

Steve Foley wrote
> It would be pretty hard to breathe if there was no oxygen on board.

I used to think that too, but when I tried breathing without a mask at about
30,000 feet in an altitude chamber I was amazed at how I felt no difficulty
inhaling or shortness of breath -- at least for the few seconds before I
passed out.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > I usually do. Many of the rental planes keep a bottle in the back too.
> > I have a large bottle I bring for the family 4 place, but also a
> > smaller, more manageble bottle with just one port for myself in the
> > Mooney.
>
> Is this just a device you set down on the seat beside you, or what?
> How long does one bottle last? I presume it's automatically regulated
> so that you use only as much oxygen as you need for the altitude?

My personal one sits on the seat next to me. If I"m flying with the
family the big one sits on the back of my seat (it comes with a special
strap). There are 4 twist adjustors and each line has a gauge on it
that is measured in altitude. So you turn up the adjustor until the
ball bounces up to the altitude you are flying at. From there you go by
personal preference. My wife likes a bit more O2 so I set her higher.
If the boys are starting to fight with each other I'll turn theirs down
a bit. My youngest likes a bit less anyway. At night I turn mine up a
bit more for better night vision.
Its important to remember to turn them off as you start down for
landing or you'll waste your O2. Amount of O2 used goes up quickly with
altitude. At 13,000 feet with all 4 of us using O2 my bigger bottle
lasts about 10-12 hours down at 10,000 its probably good for 20 hours
with 4 people. The difficult thing is that if you are planning a long
trip do you fill now or later? Remember you don't pay for the O2, just
the labor to fill it, which is the same for a top off vs a full tank.
So you want to run it down a bit before filling.
Also, if you want to **** someone off **really quick* turn their O2 way
up. It burns the inside of your nose pretty good. I also carry an
emergency O2 mask in case I have a bad cold but have yet to ever use
it.
-Robert

[Sylvain]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Is there a picture of the device somewhere on the Web? How do you
> talk on the radio if you are wearing an oxygen mask, or is it just one
> of those things that covers the nose?

it's a commercial site, the place where I bought my system, but it
should give you an idea: http://aviationoxygen.com/

there are different options depending on altitude: I use the cannula
which works well for as high as any aircraft I fly can go anyway :-)
(might be a limiting factor if I get back to flying gliders though);

you have masks with built in microphone too,

--Sylvain

[Matt Barrow]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
>
> Per FAA and other rules, O2 containers must be checked and certified
> every 5 years. Refilling the tank varies depending on the FBO doing
> the refill.
>
> Oddly enough, I am unable to have the tank refilled at a medical
> supply shop because I don't have a prescription for O2.
>
> www.mhoxygen.com
> www.aerox.com
> www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo1.htm
> www.aviationoxygen.com
>
> for details.
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html (for more details and
refutation of some myths).

[Paul kgyy]

A decent portable system runs $500+. I have one but carry it only when
I expect to use altitudes above 10K, as with a recent trip to Denver.

I'm 69 yrs old and have the Nonin testing unit. I've had the Arrow up
to 13,000 and find that I can maintain O2 at 90+ with regular slow,
deep breathing.

[Jose[_1_]]

> I'm 69 yrs old and have the Nonin testing unit. I've had the Arrow up
> to 13,000 and find that I can maintain O2 at 90+ with regular slow,
> deep breathing.

That's without supplemental O2?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mxsmanic]

T o d d P a t t i s t writes:

> To answer the original question, I always carried oxy in my
> glider, and never in my Champ (65 hp airplane). The
> glider's been to above 30,000', the Champ to only 10,000'.

You've been above 30,000 feet in a glider? How did you get up that
high? Who towed you?

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[Mxsmanic]

Paul kgyy writes:

> I'm 69 yrs old and have the Nonin testing unit. I've had the Arrow up
> to 13,000 and find that I can maintain O2 at 90+ with regular slow,
> deep breathing.

Slow, deep breathing will not provide you with any additional oxygen.
Seems like quite a risk to take. And 90 isn't that high.

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[Newps]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> T o d d P a t t i s t writes:
>
>
>>To answer the original question, I always carried oxy in my
>>glider, and never in my Champ (65 hp airplane). The
>>glider's been to above 30,000', the Champ to only 10,000'.
>
>
> You've been above 30,000 feet in a glider? How did you get up that
> high? Who towed yo

Oh, God.

[Thomas Borchert]

Mxsmanic,

> You've been above 30,000 feet in a glider?
>

I have, too. Do a google search for "mountain wave".

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

If you don't have oxygen, you die. Doesn't matter if its with a bottle
or just plain from breathing.
Mxsmanic wrote:
> I am curious to know how many GA pilots always have oxygen on board,
> even if they don't normally fly at high altitudes. It seems like it
> would be good to have around, but I don't know how much it costs. Do
> oxygen systems have to be frequently topped off or inspected or
> measured? Do they just consist of masks for passengers and pilots to
> wear?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

> If you don't have oxygen, you die. Doesn't matter if its with a bottle
> or just plain from breathing.

It's not a binary situation. If you don't have enough oxygen, you
die, but you can have enough to survive but not enough to escape
permanent or temporary negative effects of hypoxia.

--
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[Kyler Laird]

T o d d P a t t i s t > writes:

>To address this post, however, I've always noticed the
>altitude at about 16-17,000'. If you pull off the
>mask/cannula well above that, you will probably pass out
>before you really have a chance to notice the limited oxy,

Did that. Well, close. My cannula slipped out while I was trying out
my new relief bag. (It wasn't quite big enough and I got distracted.)
I thought my wife was going to get to land for the better part of a
minute before I realized what had happened.

When I first got my certificate our O2 system didn't work (and the
turbos weren't so hot either). I flew all the time right at the legal
limits. No problems.

Then I got the O2 system (and turbos) fixed. Now I hate to fly without
a good supply of oxygen. It's *so* handy to be able to go high and stay
there without fatigue. I also like it at lower altitudes at night or
when I'm tired after flying all day.

I also have a pulse oximeter. I recommend both the oximeter and the O2
system.

--kyler

[Sylvain]

Kyler Laird wrote:

> I also have a pulse oximeter. I recommend both the oximeter and the O2
> system.

to be really on the safe side, you also want a good CO detector; if
you get intoxicated with carbon monoxide, the oximeter is still going
to show a healthy oxigen saturation (while in fact your hemoglobine is
starting to carry CO)

--Sylvain

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 23:20:21 -0500, Kyler Laird
> wrote:

>T o d d P a t t i s t > writes:
>
>>To address this post, however, I've always noticed the
>>altitude at about 16-17,000'. If you pull off the
>>mask/cannula well above that, you will probably pass out
>>before you really have a chance to notice the limited oxy,
>
That depends on a number of things. There are passes in the Himalians
that are above 17,500. Some going through there suffer from altitude
sickness but most don't and that is basically one mile up, through the
pass and one mile down hike all in one day so it is strenuous activity
in thin air. It's right near the border between Nepal and Manchuria
as I recall.

>Did that. Well, close. My cannula slipped out while I was trying out
>my new relief bag. (It wasn't quite big enough and I got distracted.)
>I thought my wife was going to get to land for the better part of a
>minute before I realized what had happened.

Some people get goofy well before 17,000 and some need O2 well before
12,000. I think it's probably a good idea for any one who flys at
night let alone more than 5 or 6,000 at night.

I've hiked at 14 to 14,5 with no ill effects even at my age. Even
though I live down here in the flat lands at 638' MSL and my daughter
lives at 9,000 I acclimate to the higher altitudes faster than she
does. OTOH my wife never aclimates to even staying at 14,500 let
alone doing anthing active. One nice thing about 9,000. They do not
have dust mites and my alergies are far better off out there. Curent;y
she's where it's very hot and humid and I doubt I'd do well there even
if it is near sea level.

I'd certainly not want to stay at 12,000 in an airplane without O2
though.

>
>When I first got my certificate our O2 system didn't work (and the
>turbos weren't so hot either). I flew all the time right at the legal
>limits. No problems.
>
>Then I got the O2 system (and turbos) fixed. Now I hate to fly without
>a good supply of oxygen. It's *so* handy to be able to go high and stay
>there without fatigue. I also like it at lower altitudes at night or
>when I'm tired after flying all day.
>
>I also have a pulse oximeter. I recommend both the oximeter and the O2
>system.
>
>--kyler
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Paul kgyy]

Jose wrote:
> > I'm 69 yrs old and have the Nonin testing unit. I've had the Arrow up
> > to 13,000 and find that I can maintain O2 at 90+ with regular slow,
> > deep breathing.
>
> That's without supplemental O2?
>

Yes, without supplemental. I know that 90% isn't great, but this was a
test case on a beautiful clear day to check out both myself and the
Nonin. Normally, over 10K I use the tank for at least part of the
flight.