safer than power flying?

[[email protected]]

The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:



"Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.

"We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
yourself back to the airport."



True? False?

Johan Larson

[jeplane]

True to some degree, but since you are comparing oranges and apples,
it's not that easy to answer.

But gliders tend to fly in good weather only, and the number one cause
of accidents in GA airplanes is flying VFR in IMC conditions.
Running out of fuel comes fairly often too , which you won't see in
gliders obviously.

Are gliders safer?
Perhaps, but I take them just as seriously as when I am flying a jet,
for example....

Richard
ASW19
Phoenix, AZ

[Bill Daniels]

I think this is a case of asking the wrong question. 99% of accidents in
both gliders and GA airplanes are caused by pilot error. To quote Pogo, "we
have met the enemy and he is us".

Airplane pilot tend to fly more and, critically, make more landings than
glider pilots. Many glider pilots make fewer than 20 flights per year. The
relative lack of currency by glider pilots leads to a higher accident rate
than would otherwise be the case. If you compared pilots with equal
experience and currency, I think you would find glider flying would be
safer.

Although there are differences in the machines we fly and the conditions
under which we fly them, mechanical contributions to the accident rate are
swamped by pilot error.

Bill Daniels

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:
>
>
>
> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."
>
>
>
> True? False?
>
> Johan Larson
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, wrote:
> The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:
>
> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."
>
> True? False?

In terms of fatalities per participant hour, the statistics are pretty
clear that soaring is more dangerous than power flying.

However, as the quote suggests, the reality behind the statistics is
that the dangers in soaring are to a great extent at the control of the
pilot. Of the people I've known who've gotten killed or seriously
injured while flying gliders, at least 75% were doing things that are
clearly unsafe. Things like very low saves, low passes, tangling with
thunderstorms, dicey ridge soaring.

Thanks, Bob K.

[HL Falbaum]

Sailplane flying should be safer than power flying--but it is not. There are
many ways to do yourself in with a glider. There are many ways to do it in a
powered plane also. There is some overlap, and there are some ways unique to
each. Some pilots are creative enough to do it in ways we haven't thought of
yet.

The answer is flying attitude---"Your next flight could kill or maim
you--what are you going to do about it?"

--
Hartley Falbaum
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:
>
>
>
> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."
>
>
>
> True? False?
>
> Johan Larson
>

[Rory O'Conor]

I am surprised by this statement.=20
Do you have any evidence to support this?
Are you including commercial flying within power flying, or just
recreational power flying?
=20
Rory
=20
Author: Bob Kuykendall > <mailto:Bob Kuykendall
>>=20
Date/Time: 15:00 14 November 2006

________________________________


In terms of fatalities per participant hour, the statistics are pretty
clear that soaring is more dangerous than power flying.

[kirk.stant]

Part of the safety problem with soaring vs power flying (and which ties
in with the "currency" issue) is that while power flying usually is
about staying as far from the edges of the envelope (skill and
equipment) as possible and still accomplishing the mission (be it
training, cross-country, or just sightseeing), soaring often requires
pushing the capabilities of both the pilot and glider to accomplish the
desired goal, be it XC, racing, or even staying up on a marginal day.

If you want to go faster or farther in power, you pretty much have to
buy more airplane. In a glider, you can go faster and farther by
trying harder, flying better & smarter, or by taking more chances. You
can take chances and still be safe, but the opportunity and temptation
is there to push too hard, to fast, too soon....(been there done that!)

Just buying more glider won't make you go faster or farther than the
guy who has more skill or experience (not the same thing!) in his lower
performance glider. And that in itself may cause dangerous flying by
rich but unskilled glider guiders!

So fly a lot, train all the time, set realistic goals, question
everything, have fun.

Kirk
66

[Michael Ash]

Rory O'Conor > wrote:
> I am surprised by this statement.=20
> Do you have any evidence to support this?
> Are you including commercial flying within power flying, or just
> recreational power flying?

Official US statistics for 2001 can be had here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/ARG0601.pdf

It's for general aviation, so obviously big jets are out, but I don't know
exactly where the line is drawn.

The fatal accident rate for gliders in that year was 4.17 per 100,000
hours, over three times the rate for all aircraft at 1.29. The total rate
(fatal and non-fatal) is similarly elevated.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[KM]

> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."

Some interesting perspective so far.And here (Hopefully) is some
more.Power pilots dont have to endure the aerotow or winch launch.I can
still remember the words of my old hang gliding instructor (In regards
to towing) "Just one more thing to go wrong".Someone pointed out the
statistical rate was worse for sailplanes.I wonder how much closer it
would be if one excluded the towing accidents.IMHO probably a little
more apples to apples.
K Urban

> Johan Larson

[Jack]

wrote:

> The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:
>
> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."
>
>
> True? False?


Hard to say for sure, but when we look at some numbers...

NTSB fatal US-reg. Schweizer glider accidents since 11/15/01 = 28;
NTSB fatal US-reg. Cessna 172/182 accidents since 11/15/01 = 232.

26,654 US registered Cessna 172/182's;
1,427 US registered Schweizer-glider.

26654/1427=18.678x28=522.984/232=2.254

If I have done this properly, then flying a Cessna 172/182 MAY be 2.5
times safer than flying a Schweizer-glider.

Draw your own conclusions, but the more I look at these and (lots of)
other numbers, the more I think that flying any glider is about as safe
as riding your motorcycle to the airport -- but not more so, and quite
possibly less safe.

Gliders are safer than parachutes. And parachutes are our back-up?

Whoa, dudes!


Jack

[Gary Emerson]

wrote:
> The following, from _Sails in the Sky_, caught my attention:
>
>
>
> "Is sailplaning safer than power flying?" someone asked.
>
> "We think so," said Jones. "You're not moving as fast, there is no
> danger of an engine conking out, no chance of fire. And when you soar,
> you have to keep your mind on what you're doing. In power flying some
> pilots count on the throttle to get them home, and they get into
> trouble. In soaring you know you have to keep mentally sharp to work
> yourself back to the airport."
>
>
>
> True? False?
>
> Johan Larson
>
Who was it that said that the piper cub was the safest airplane ever
built? They went on to say "it can just barely kill you".

[Eric Greenwell]

Jack wrote:

> Draw your own conclusions, but the more I look at these and (lots of)
> other numbers, the more I think that flying any glider is about as safe
> as riding your motorcycle to the airport -- but not more so, and quite
> possibly less safe.
>
> Gliders are safer than parachutes. And parachutes are our back-up?

I've always been impressed with how well parachutes work. I know a
number of pilots that have bailed out and survived with minimal
injuries. It's amazing that someone with no training or experience in
the use of a parachute can successfully exit a glider without any
warning in a potentially fatal situation, get the parachute open, float
to the ground, and land with with only minor (at most) injuries. And as
long as they aren't injured in the mid-air collsion or breakup of the
glider, they almost always can get out, too. Incredible.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org