Airbus A380 in Arizona

[User]

Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
the afternoon of 11/17:

A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
called me to see if I knew what it was.)

Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.

[Mxsmanic]

User writes:

> Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
> the afternoon of 11/17:
>
> A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
> load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
> significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
> was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
> my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
> traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
> called me to see if I knew what it was.)
>
> Any idea what this could have been?

Maybe the A380s are being mothballed at Davis-Monthan.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Reef Fish]

User wrote:
> Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
> the afternoon of 11/17:
>
> A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
> load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
> significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
> was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
> my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
> traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
> called me to see if I knew what it was.)
>
> Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.

In France.

An Airbus A380 had a test flight (with a crew of 78) that landed in
Kowloon (Hong Kong) HKG yesterday. It was front page news
here in Hong Kong. :=)

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Reef Fish]

Reef Fish wrote:
> User wrote:
> > Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
> > the afternoon of 11/17:
> >
> > A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
> > load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
> > significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
> > was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
> > my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
> > traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
> > called me to see if I knew what it was.)
> >
> > Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.
>
> In France.
>
> An Airbus A380 had a test flight (with a crew of 78) that landed in
> Kowloon (Hong Kong) HKG yesterday. It was front page news
> here in Hong Kong. :=)
>
It was front page headline "RUNWAY MONSTER World's biggest
passenger jet lands at Chek Lap Kok" but page 3 news in Sunday
Morning Post (South China publication).

"The aircraft - the third unit to roll off the production line in
Toulouse,
France -- flew to Hong Kong on a stringent flight testing routing that
will see five of the planes circle the world three times in 18 days
before the A380's expected certification for commercial use next
month."

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Thomas Borchert]

Reef,

> > Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.
>
> In France.
>

No. In Europe (Hamburg, Germany, for example).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[John Francis]

In article >,
User > wrote:
>Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
>the afternoon of 11/17:
>
>A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
>load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
>significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
>was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
>my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
>traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
>called me to see if I knew what it was.)

Probably parts for the Boeing 787. That's wider than anything
currently in commercial service (and many of the newer jets are
already noticeably wider than a mere 747).

When I was up in Seattle a few weeks ago on a visit to Boeing
I got to look around the passenger cabin mockup they use to show
prospective customers. I also saw, sitting on the runway, one
of the custom-built freighters they have made to ferry 787 parts.

[Paul Frankenstein[_1_]]

In article >,
John Francis > wrote:
* In article >,
* User > wrote:
* >Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
* >the afternoon of 11/17:
* >
* >A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
* >load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
* >significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
* >was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
* >my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
* >traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
* >called me to see if I knew what it was.)
*
* Probably parts for the Boeing 787. That's wider than anything
* currently in commercial service (and many of the newer jets are
* already noticeably wider than a mere 747).

That's factually incorrect. The 787 will probably be deployed in a 2-4-2
configuration in economy, which is somewhat narrower than the 2-5-2 (or
3-3-3) configuration in use on the DC-10 (and derivatives) and the 777, not
to mention the 747's 3-4-3 configuration.

Boeing's site lists the width of the 787 at 18 feet, 11 inches; the 747 is
21 feet, 4 inches. The 777 is listed as being 20 ft 4 in wide.

By comparison, it appears that the A380 will have a 2-4-2 configuration on
the upper deck and a 3-4-3 configuration on the lower deck. Wikipedia says
that the width of the A380 will be 23 ft 6 in.

p
--
paulf | Some days you're the bug;
@ | Some days you're the windshield.
panix | ------------------------------
.com | <http://paulfrankenstein.org/>

[Paul Frankenstein]

In article >,
John Francis > wrote:
* Probably parts for the Boeing 787. That's wider than anything
* currently in commercial service (and many of the newer jets are
* already noticeably wider than a mere 747).
*
* When I was up in Seattle a few weeks ago on a visit to Boeing
* I got to look around the passenger cabin mockup they use to show
* prospective customers. I also saw, sitting on the runway, one
* of the custom-built freighters they have made to ferry 787 parts.

That's factually incorrect. The 787 will probably be deployed in a 2-4-2
configuration in economy, which is somewhat narrower than the 2-5-2 (or
3-3-3) configuration in use on the DC-10 (and derivatives) and the 777, not
to mention the 747's 3-4-3 configuration.

Boeing's site lists the width of the 787 at 18 feet, 11 inches; the 747 is
21 feet, 4 inches. The 777 is listed as being 20 ft 4 in wide.

By comparison, it appears that the A380 will have a 2-4-2 configuration on
the upper deck and a 3-4-3 configuration on the lower deck. Wikipedia says
that the width of the A380 will be 23 ft 6 in.



--
paulf | Some days you're the bug;
@ | Some days you're the windshield.
panix | ------------------------------
.com | <http://paulfrankenstein.org/>

[Nobody]

Paul Frankenstein wrote:
> That's factually incorrect. The 787 will probably be deployed in a 2-4-2
> configuration in economy,

Boeing admitted that most 787 customers will outfit their planes with 9
across. So 2-5-2, 3-3-3- or 2-4-3

To answer the original poster, the fuselage sections for the A380 are all
built in Europe.

There is no aircraft capable of transporting a fuselage setion for the
A380. There are special barges used to transport such sections, and one
ship capable of transporting sections from england and spain to france (and
barged up the river and then trucked to toulouse).

At this point in time, one would expect Airbus to have stopped producing
A380 parts, and it is conceivable that many parts would be available for a
tour to demo/showcase them. However, if that had been the case, there would
have been publicity about it. And the logistics to transport those parts
are huge and costly.

A simulator may require oversized transport trucks. Or some machines used
to build some A380 parts (there are many A380 parts built in the USA) might
also require special transport arrangements.

[TOliver]

"John Francis" > wrote....
>
> Probably parts for the Boeing 787. That's wider than anything
> currently in commercial service (and many of the newer jets are
> already noticeably wider than a mere 747).
>
> When I was up in Seattle a few weeks ago on a visit to Boeing
> I got to look around the passenger cabin mockup they use to show
> prospective customers. I also saw, sitting on the runway, one
> of the custom-built freighters they have made to ferry 787 parts.
>

I suspect that what he saw was a combination of wry humor and a chunk of the
fuselage of one of those a/c specially rebuilt to haul "Wide Loads" on its
way from the boneyard to scrap, Tucson being the site of the US's largest
boneyard. There's one model built on the "chassis" of the old Boeing
Stratocruiser/C-97 which has an enormous diameter.

TMO

[Reef Fish]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Reef,
>
> > > Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.
> >
> > In France.
> >
>
> No. In Europe (Hamburg, Germany, for example).
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

You must have a slow newsfeed. I posted two hours before your
present post, quoted from the Sunday news:

NEWS>"The aircraft - the third unit to roll off the production line in
NEWS> Toulouse, France -- flew to Hong Kong on a stringent flight
NEWS> testing routing ..."

What was YOUR source. about Hamburg?

It's unlikely to be in production in only one country. i know of THAT
one. The newspaper also reported that the manufacturer is not
expecting to "break even" until 420 of these GIANTS are completed.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Thomas Borchert]

Reef,

Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe. You tried to correct
that and said it was produced in France. I corrected that, because it's
wrong. That's all.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[John A. Weeks III]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe. You tried to correct
> that and said it was produced in France. I corrected that, because it's
> wrong. That's all.

Perhaps you are both right depending on what you mean by
"produced". The final assembly is done only in France, but
components and assemblies are produced across Europe.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

[Reef Fish]

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article >,
> Thomas Borchert > wrote:
>
> > Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe.

And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.

He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.

He is just plain WRONG in making his correction.

Even an IDIOT like him should know that France is in Europe. I was
merely being more precise given the timely report I read in the news
in Hong Kong because the plane landed there!

> > You tried to correct
> > that and said it was produced in France. I corrected that, because it's
> > wrong. That's all.

You are a lying, twisting stummer Kopf

-- Reef Fish Bob.
>
> Perhaps you are both right depending on what you mean by
> "produced". The final assembly is done only in France, but
> components and assemblies are produced across Europe.
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ================================================== ====================
> John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
> Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
> ================================================== ====================

[Nobody]

Reef Fish wrote:
> And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
>
> He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.

Semantics.

Not sure about the actual test items. But the 380 is assembled in Toulouse,
but finishing is done in Hamburg. So I assume that when a customer will
take posession of his 380, it will be in Hamburg where the cabin interiors
etc will have been fitted.


Ville de Bordeau: sea-going ship made in China.

Starts in hamburg to pickup, front and rear fuselage parts. Stops in Whales
to pickup the wings and then heads to St-Nazaire, picks up more parts
including cockpit and center fuselage section (I assume wingbox) and then
unloads at Bordeaux. Ship then goes to Spain to pickup the composite parts
(namely rear ailerons )

Then, on the Garonne river on 2 special barges (low enough to pass under
the old bridges at Bordeaux) for a 35km jaunt, followed by a 240 jaunt over
roads that were upgraded to permit transport of the beast's parts. This
includes highly precice GPS guidance of trucks to cm precision so they can
pass through relatively narrow streets of some villages (where residents
can "almost" touch it from their 3rd floor windows :-)

At toulouse all is brought into a flyiable plane. And then flown to Hamburg
for final finishing (cabin interiors etc).

There are many parts which are made in various places in Europe (including
many sites in Germany). And of course many parts made elsewhere, includfing
north america (landing gear and avionics for instance) and even australia.
But those parts are small enough to use conventional transport.

[Thomas Borchert]

Nobody,

> So I assume that when a customer will
> take posession of his 380, it will be in Hamburg where the cabin interiors
> etc will have been fitted.
>

Yup. Delivery center is here.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Reef,

Jeeze, did you forget the pills this morning?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ulf Kutzner]

Reef Fish schrieb:

>>Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
>>the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.
>
>
> In France.

No.

Regards, ULF

[Ulf Kutzner]

Reef Fish schrieb:

> John A. Weeks III wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> Thomas Borchert > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe.
>
>
> And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> test flight plane

Errr.

"all the big parts of the 380"


> was produced in Toulouse, France.

Regards, ULF

[Ulf Kutzner]

Thomas Borchert schrieb:

>>So I assume that when a customer will
>>take posession of his 380, it will be in Hamburg where the cabin interiors
>>etc will have been fitted.
>>
>
>
> Yup. Delivery center is here.

But might be moved.

Regards, ULF

[Hatunen]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:44:55 +0100, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>User writes:
>
>> Spotted on Interstate 10 about 75 miles east of Tucscon, Arizona, on
>> the afternoon of 11/17:
>>
>> A large convoy of trucks guiding an oversized load. The oversized
>> load appeared to be a fuselage section about 75 feet long, and
>> significantly larger in diameter than a 747. And the whole package
>> was labeled "Airbus A380". (Sorry I don't have more detail. It was
>> my brother who saw this. Briefly. From the opposite lanes of
>> traffic. And since I work in the commercial aircraft industry he
>> called me to see if I knew what it was.)
>>
>> Any idea what this could have been?
>
>Maybe the A380s are being mothballed at Davis-Monthan.

Only if theuy're military. But some commercial jets are
mohtballed at Marana, northwest of Tucson (note spelling of
"Tucson"; we hate "Tuscon").

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

[Anno v. Heimburg]

> You are a lying, twisting stummer Kopf

A "silent head"? What's that supposed to be?

[Tchiowa]

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article >,
> Thomas Borchert > wrote:
>
> > Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe. You tried to correct
> > that and said it was produced in France. I corrected that, because it's
> > wrong. That's all.
>
> Perhaps you are both right depending on what you mean by
> "produced". The final assembly is done only in France, but
> components and assemblies are produced across Europe.

The statement being discussed was "I thought all the big parts of the
380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain." which is
clearly true. Not final assembly but parts manufacturing. It's taking
place in several countries. And that appears to be the source of their
current problems: different design software in different plants that
was incompatible.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> John A. Weeks III wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> >
> > > Someone stated the A380 is produced in Europe.
>
> And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
>
> He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
>
> He is just plain WRONG in making his correction.
>
> Even an IDIOT like him should know that France is in Europe. I was
> merely being more precise given the timely report I read in the news
> in Hong Kong because the plane landed there!
>
> > > You tried to correct
> > > that and said it was produced in France. I corrected that, because it's
> > > wrong. That's all.
>
> You are a lying, twisting stummer Kopf

The statement was "I thought all the big parts of the 380 were being
manufactured in Europe and Great Britain." and that is completely true.
The major parts are manufactured all over Europe and then shipped to
France for final assembly.

Pay attention "Bob".

[Louis Krupp]

Nobody wrote:
<snip>

> Stops in Whales to pick up the wings ...

Make that "Wales." Broughton, to be exact, in North Wales, west of
Chester, on the Saxon side of Wat's Dyke. The wings are built in
Broughton and then shipped elsewhere to be joined with the other bits.

Louis

[Ulf Kutzner]

Tchiowa schrieb:

> The statement was "I thought all the big parts of the 380 were being
> manufactured in Europe and Great Britain." and that is completely true.

Besides the fact GB belongs to Europe, although not to the Continent and
not to Schengania.

Regards, ULF

[Reef Fish]

Nobody wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> >
> > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
>
> Semantics.

You people who took issue with me CITING the South China Post
should write that newspaper for your jollies.

There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.

The reporter could EASILY have said Hamburg Germany as Toulouse
France -- 14 alphabets each. Or could have said assembled in Germany
and delivered in France.

Neither was said.

I couldn't care LESS if the parts were made in Iraq and assembled in
Iran
and and delivered to France or Germany just to keep Bush from starting
another war. :-)

You are a bunch of pedants who spent too much of time sitting on your
butt typing pedantic and unsurpported trivia on the keyboard.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > >
> > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> >
> > Semantics.
>
> You people who took issue with me CITING the South China Post
> should write that newspaper for your jollies.
>
> There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.
>
> The reporter could EASILY have said Hamburg Germany as Toulouse
> France -- 14 alphabets each. Or could have said assembled in Germany
> and delivered in France.
>
> Neither was said.
>
> I couldn't care LESS if the parts were made in Iraq and assembled in
> Iran
> and and delivered to France or Germany just to keep Bush from starting
> another war. :-)
>
> You are a bunch of pedants who spent too much of time sitting on your
> butt typing pedantic and unsurpported trivia on the keyboard.

5555555555

There was a minor correction to something you posted and you went
ballistic denying it. Turns out you're wrong (you should understand
that feeling quite well by now) and you're screaming about pedantry.

[Reef Fish]

Tchiowa wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > Nobody wrote:
> > > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > > >
> > > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> > >
> > > Semantics.
> >
> > You people who took issue with me CITING the South China Post
> > should write that newspaper for your jollies.
> >
> > There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> > and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.
> >
> > The reporter could EASILY have said Hamburg Germany as Toulouse
> > France -- 14 alphabets each. Or could have said assembled in Germany
> > and delivered in France.
> >
> > Neither was said.
> >
> > I couldn't care LESS if the parts were made in Iraq and assembled in
> > Iran
> > and and delivered to France or Germany just to keep Bush from starting
> > another war. :-)
> >
> > You are a bunch of pedants who spent too much of time sitting on your
> > butt typing pedantic and unsurpported trivia on the keyboard.
>
> 5555555555
>
> There was a minor correction to something you posted and you went
> ballistic denying it. Turns out you're wrong (you should understand
> that feeling quite well by now) and you're screaming about pedantry.

What do you know? The rec.culture.thailand buffoon who used to
get his head clubbed in this group is back with his impertinence again.

What happened to alt.bangkok and alt.culture.thailand where you belong?

The archives are full of your blunders in rec.travel.air.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[[email protected]]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > >
> > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> >
> > Semantics.
[snip]
> There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.

However, the original exchange went as such:

> > Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.

> In France.

The final assembly is done in Toulouse, but the "big parts"
are produced all over Europe (and actually I believe a few
"fairly large" parts are made in the US as well).

[Rabbit]

wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > Nobody wrote:
> > > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > > >
> > > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> > >
> > > Semantics.
> [snip]
> > There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> > and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.
>
> However, the original exchange went as such:
>
> > > Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain.

It said "I thought", the usual newsgroup speculation parlance; and
"big parts" are not exactly a technical term for any part of an
airplane
(the completely assembled plane <in Toulouse> was certainly the
"big part"; and finally the poster singled out Great Britain to be
NOT part of Europe?

I simply made the simple, more explicit correction:

RF> > In France.

Now it's oconnell's turn to speculate:
>
> The final assembly is done in Toulouse, but the "big parts"
> are produced all over Europe (and actually I believe a few
> "fairly large" parts are made in the US as well).

"all over Europe"? Can you NAME the countries in Europe?
Of course there's that "I believe" newsgroup parlance for
"I don't know what I am talking about, but that doesn't keep
me from posting".

And where in the USA are those "fairly large" parts of A340 made?

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Tchiowa wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > Nobody wrote:
> > > > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > > > >
> > > > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> > > >
> > > > Semantics.
> > >
> > > You people who took issue with me CITING the South China Post
> > > should write that newspaper for your jollies.
> > >
> > > There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> > > and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.
> > >
> > > The reporter could EASILY have said Hamburg Germany as Toulouse
> > > France -- 14 alphabets each. Or could have said assembled in Germany
> > > and delivered in France.
> > >
> > > Neither was said.
> > >
> > > I couldn't care LESS if the parts were made in Iraq and assembled in
> > > Iran
> > > and and delivered to France or Germany just to keep Bush from starting
> > > another war. :-)
> > >
> > > You are a bunch of pedants who spent too much of time sitting on your
> > > butt typing pedantic and unsurpported trivia on the keyboard.
> >
> > 5555555555
> >
> > There was a minor correction to something you posted and you went
> > ballistic denying it. Turns out you're wrong (you should understand
> > that feeling quite well by now) and you're screaming about pedantry.
>
> What do you know? The rec.culture.thailand buffoon who used to
> get his head clubbed in this group is back with his impertinence again.
>
> What happened to alt.bangkok and alt.culture.thailand where you belong?

Of the three NGs you just named I've never heard of any of them.

> The archives are full of your blunders in rec.travel.air.

Actually they are full of me catching you not knowing what you're
talking about. Me and a few hundred other people.

Perfect example is this thread. You were completely wrong and when it's
pointed out you act like a 3 year old.

[Reef Fish]

Tchiowa wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > Tchiowa wrote:
> > > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > > Nobody wrote:
> > > > > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > > > > And Borchert said i was wrong in pointing out from the NEWS that a
> > > > > > test flight plane was produced in Toulouse, France.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He said Hamburg, Germany, without a shread of evidence of support.
> > > > >
> > > > > Semantics.
> > > >
> > > > You people who took issue with me CITING the South China Post
> > > > should write that newspaper for your jollies.
> > > >
> > > > There is nothing semantics about the difference between Toulouse
> > > > and Hamburg, or the difference between France and Germany.
> > > >
> > > > The reporter could EASILY have said Hamburg Germany as Toulouse
> > > > France -- 14 alphabets each. Or could have said assembled in Germany
> > > > and delivered in France.
> > > >
> > > > Neither was said.
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't care LESS if the parts were made in Iraq and assembled in
> > > > Iran
> > > > and and delivered to France or Germany just to keep Bush from starting
> > > > another war. :-)
> > > >
> > > > You are a bunch of pedants who spent too much of time sitting on your
> > > > butt typing pedantic and unsurpported trivia on the keyboard.
> > >
> > > 5555555555
> > >
> > > There was a minor correction to something you posted and you went
> > > ballistic denying it. Turns out you're wrong (you should understand
> > > that feeling quite well by now) and you're screaming about pedantry.
> >
> > What do you know? The rec.culture.thailand buffoon who used to
> > get his head clubbed in this group is back with his impertinence again.
> >
> > What happened to alt.bangkok and alt.culture.thailand where you belong?
>
> Of the three NGs you just named I've never heard of any of them.

That's because you're so obtuse and severely humor-impaired!

You posted in 6740 THREADS in soc.culture.thai.
Your life time posted record in rec.travel.air was 192 threads.
>
> > The archives are full of your blunders in rec.travel.air.
>
> Actually they are full of me catching you not knowing what you're
> talking about. Me and a few hundred other people.

You are so laughable! The archives don't LIE, like Tchiowa does.

>
> Perfect example is this thread. You were completely wrong and when it's
> pointed out you act like a 3 year old.

I was the only one who cited a FACT in the Asian China News, citing
Toulouse, France, the A340 that landed in Kowloon, the day I was
there, and a few other facts in the news report.

The only 3-year old (in mental age of course) is Tchiowa.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Tchiowa wrote:

> > Perfect example is this thread. You were completely wrong and when it's
> > pointed out you act like a 3 year old.
>
> I was the only one who cited a FACT in the Asian China News, citing
> Toulouse, France, the A340 that landed in Kowloon, the day I was
> there, and a few other facts in the news report.

And when someone pointed out that the major parts were not manufactured
there you went ballistic. You were wrong. You just can't get past that
no matter how hard you try, "Bob".

A340?

[Reef Fish]

Tchiowa wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > Tchiowa wrote:
>
> > > Perfect example is this thread. You were completely wrong and when it's
> > > pointed out you act like a 3 year old.
> >
> > I was the only one who cited a FACT in the Asian China News, citing
> > Toulouse, France, the A340 that landed in Kowloon, the day I was
> > there, and a few other facts in the news report.
> >
Tchiowa cleverly snipped :-)

> > The only 3-year old (in mental age of course) is Tchiowa

and lamely added

> A340?

Typical Tchiowa, when totally debunked and ridiculed, resorted to
his only possible lame comeback, picking out an obvious and
inconsequential typo.

Eat your heart out in your sandbox in Bangkok, Tchiowa, jousting
with the posters of your same mentality, in soc.culture.thai, where
you posted 6740 threads (to your 192 threads in rec.travel.air where
adults post) where Tchiowa was last heard to impress gina with

gina> That is a terrific idea using mussaman sauce.

in soc.culture.thai, and Tchiowa showed off with

> Where in California? 7 hours from LA indicates north. I know 2 Thai
> grocery stores in Berkeley. Close to each other. Erawan and
> Tuk Tuk. Both on University. Tuk Tuk is newer and larger.

That's about all your know, turkey Tchiowa!

Don't expect me to follow-up on your juvenile crap while I am off
to another trip on this long Thanksgiving weekend.

Adios, turkey Tchiowa. You're about to be carved on the dinner
tables of Americans, everywhere. :-)

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Ulf Kutzner]

Rabbit schrieb:

> wrote:

>> The final assembly is done in Toulouse, but the "big parts"
>>are produced all over Europe (and actually I believe a few
>>"fairly large" parts are made in the US as well).
>
>
> "all over Europe"? Can you NAME the countries in Europe?

What about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380#Production ? Well
not every European country is involved but lots of them...

Regards, ULF

[Thomas Borchert]

Reef,

> Tchiowa cleverly snipped
>

Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
yourself in this thread.

You made a wrong statement (namely that all large Airbus parts are
produced in France). Several people corrected you, since that statement
is wrong. That's all that happened.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Reef Fish]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Reef,
>
> > Tchiowa cleverly snipped
> >
>
> Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> yourself in this thread.
>
> You made a wrong statement (namely that all large Airbus parts are
> produced in France).

Why don't you CITE that alleged statement of mine?

I made many statements based on a newspaper report in an
Asian newspapers in Hong Kong. NONE of my statements or
quoted statements was what you cluelessly alleged.


> Several people corrected you, since that statement
> is wrong. That's all that happened.

Next to Tchiowa, you are the SECOND worst posters about
facts on the A380 in this thread.

Live with it. Neither you nor anyone else corrected me on
MY statements, or those of the news reporter.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I consulted the internet dictionary on acronyms for your EDDH.

There was none, but i did find the appropriate ones for YOU,
on ED and DH, when put together, they stand for:

EDDH: Emotionally Disturbed Dick Head.

For ED, See: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=E
For DH, See: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=D

Very apt acronym for yourself, Thomas Borchert. :-)

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Thomas Borchert wrote:
> > Reef,
> >
> > > Tchiowa cleverly snipped
> > >
> >
> > Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> > yourself in this thread.
> >
> > You made a wrong statement (namely that all large Airbus parts are
> > produced in France).
>
> Why don't you CITE that alleged statement of mine?

Here it is:

Someone posted:

"Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain."

And you said: "In France."

Wrong. Now here are the facts:

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29

"Apart from the prime contractors in France, Germany, the United
Kingdom and Spain, components for the A380 airframe are also
manufactured by industral partners in Australia, Austria, Belgium,
Canada, Finland, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Netherlands,
Sweden, Switzerland and the United States. A380 final assembly is
taking place in Toulouse, France, with interior fitment in Hamburg,
Germany."

So major components ("all large parts") are made in France, Germany, UK
and Spain. Not just in France as you posted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380#Production

"Major structural sections of the A380 are built in France, Germany,
Spain, and the United Kingdom."

Ooops, more proof you're wrong.

Further: "The front and rear sections of the fuselage are loaded on an
Airbus RORO ship, Ville de Bordeaux, in Hamburg in northern Germany,
whence they are shipped to the United Kingdom.[29] The wings, which are
manufactured at Filton in Bristol and Broughton in north Wales, are
transported by barge to Mostyn docks, where the ship adds them to its
cargo."

There's Hamburg which got you all upset.

It goes on: "In Saint-Nazaire in western France, the ship trades the
fuselage sections from Hamburg..."

Damn, "fuselage sections from Hamburg"

"...for larger, assembled sections, some of which include the nose. The
ship unloads in Bordeaux. Afterwards, the ship picks up the belly and
tail sections by Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA in Cadiz in southern
Spain, and delivers them to Bordeaux."

My goodness. Belly and tail sections built in Spain.

> > Several people corrected you, since that statement
> > is wrong. That's all that happened.
>
> Next to Tchiowa, you are the SECOND worst posters about
> facts on the A380 in this thread.

Both of us along with pretty much everyone else on the group *except*
you were completely right.

> Live with it. Neither you nor anyone else corrected me on
> MY statements, or those of the news reporter.
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>
> I consulted the internet dictionary on acronyms for your EDDH.
>
> There was none, but i did find the appropriate ones for YOU,
> on ED and DH, when put together, they stand for:
>
> EDDH: Emotionally Disturbed Dick Head.
>
> For ED, See: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=E
> For DH, See: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=D
>
> Very apt acronym for yourself, Thomas Borchert. :-)

How old are you, "Bob"? About 12?

>
> -- Reef Fish Bob.

[Mike Hunt]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Reef,
>
>
>>Tchiowa cleverly snipped
>>
>
>
> Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> yourself in this thread.
>

Why is it that people will use "no offense meant" or "no offense
intended" right before offending someone?

[Reef Fish]

Tchiowa wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > Thomas Borchert wrote:
> > > Reef,
> > >
> > > > Tchiowa cleverly snipped
> > > >
> > >
> > > Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> > > yourself in this thread.
> > >
> > > You made a wrong statement (namely that all large Airbus parts are
> > > produced in France).
> >
> > Why don't you CITE that alleged statement of mine?
>
> Here it is:
>
> Someone posted:
>
> "Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain."
>
> And you said: "In France."
>
> Wrong. Now here are the facts:

Another clever snip by Tchiowa?

This was my ENTIRE POST:

RF> In France.

RF> An Airbus A380 had a test flight (with a crew of 78) that landed in

RF> Kowloon (Hong Kong) HKG yesterday. It was front page news
RF> here in Hong Kong. :=)

I was at the 59th floor lounge of the Hong Kong Conrad having a
little evening hors d'oeuvres when i responded to the post about
Airbus A380 in Arizona. I merely recalled what I read.

Fifteen minutes later, I saw a copy of the newspaper at the lounge,
and I added, with actual quotes from the NEWS.

RF> It was front page headline "RUNWAY MONSTER World's biggest
RF> passenger jet lands at Chek Lap Kok" but page 3 news in Sunday
RF> Morning Post (South China publication).

RF> "The aircraft - the third unit to roll off the production line in
RF> Toulouse, France -- flew to Hong Kong on a stringent flight
RF> testing routing that will see five of the planes circle the world
RF> three times in 18 days before the A380's expected certification f
RF> or commercial use next month."

That was when Borchert inserted his first piece of irrelevance,
two hours after my quotes above:

TB> No. In Europe (Hamburg, Germany, for example).
--
TB> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

to which I responded:

RF> What was YOUR source. about Hamburg?

RF> It's unlikely to be in production in only one country. i know
RF> of THAT one. The newspaper also reported that the
RF> manufacturer is not expecting to "break even" until 420
RF> of these GIANTS are completed.


The 3 posts of mine (cited above) were posts #5, #6, and #8,
with Thomas Borcerts post being #7, in the Google thread.

The NOISE makers, including the well-known Tchiowa who
had repeatedly made blunders in this group, came in much later.

I had said I couldn't care LESS which country manufactured
the parts, and even cited Iraq and Iran -- I was merely reporting
what I READ in the newspaper that day, while I was at the
city where the A380 landed, while the rest were speculating
about its presence in Arizona.

By now, 6 days later, even Tchiowa could find enough tidbits
from his spare time away from soc.culture.thai to make some
more noise by more creative snipping. :-)

Get a LIFE, all of you. I have already come back from Hong
Kong to the USA, had my first Thanksgiving dinner with
family members today, 300 miles from home, and will be
having a second after-Thanksgiving Thanksgiving dinner
tomorrow, while I am browsing through some of this garbage
in a hotel. :-)

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Reef Fish]

Mike Hunt wrote:
> Thomas Borchert wrote:
> > Reef,
> >
> >
> >>Tchiowa cleverly snipped
> >>
> >
> >
> > Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> > yourself in this thread.
> >
>
> Why is it that people will use "no offense meant" or "no offense
> intended" right before offending someone?

Thanks Mike, for making your succinct and perceptive comment!

The answer is: This is USENET newsgroup, and the groups
that attract the most posters of that kind are the rec. groups.

rec.travel.air is notorious for its many "professional trolls" as
well as the clueless posters like Tchiowa and Thomas Borchert.

It's deja vu all over again, since I've been reading and posting
in newsgroups for nearly 20 years. Tchiowa will not survive
long -- he is battling EVERYONE in this group (from what I
could see from just reading three consecutive posts the last
time), and he is what's known in the trade as a "clueless newbie",
drifted here from soc.culture.thai where he learned to insult
people who did not know how to bite him back, and club him
hard enough. :-)

As for Borchert, he is just another "clueless newbie" in this
group, having come from de.rec.luftfahrt where as Tchiowa
came from soc.culture.thai.

That's why all Borchert knew was Hamburg, Germany when
the A380 parts and planes were made all over the world.

These are the TYPICAL "clueless newbies". Then there are
the well-known OLDIES in rec.travel.air. I am sure you've
seen several of those, constantly reminded by others. :-)

In fact, one of the best-known trolls, "Nobody" (one of his
over 100 aliases) was in this thread, but in good behavior,
compared to those two clueless newbies.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

[Tchiowa]

Reef Fish wrote:
> Tchiowa wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > Thomas Borchert wrote:
> > > > Reef,
> > > >
> > > > > Tchiowa cleverly snipped
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Son, no offense meant, but you're making a complete idiot out of
> > > > yourself in this thread.
> > > >
> > > > You made a wrong statement (namely that all large Airbus parts are
> > > > produced in France).
> > >
> > > Why don't you CITE that alleged statement of mine?
> >
> > Here it is:
> >
> > Someone posted:
> >
> > "Any idea what this could have been? I thought all the big parts of
> > the 380 were being manufactured in Europe and Great Britain."
> >
> > And you said: "In France."
> >
> > Wrong. Now here are the facts:
>
> Another clever snip by Tchiowa?
>
> This was my ENTIRE POST:

Your entire post is irrelevant. You disputed a specific statement.
Whether the rest of your post made any sense of not doesn't change the
fact that you disputed that statement AND YOU WERE WRONG!!!

Get over it, "Bob".

[Thomas Borchert]

Tchiowa,

Don't bother, he's beyond hope. I didn't know they had internet
terminals in mental institutions now...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> Why is it that people will use "no offense meant" or "no offense
> intended" right before offending someone?
>

Because I didn't mean to offend. I meant to state a fact. Also, because
I didn't want to adopt the tone of the person I was answering to. If
you want offense, have a look at his posts.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Reef Fish]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Tchiowa,
>
> Don't bother, he's beyond hope. I didn't know they had internet
> terminals in mental institutions now...

LOL! EDDH (internet acronym): Emotionally Disturbed Dick Head.

You mean they DIDN't have internet terminals in the German
mental institution when you were there?

Must be gettting too crowded in the German mental institutions
to have to release Thomas Borchert to pollute the newsgroups
while flashing his EDDH badge. <BG>

Guten morgen, herr Dick Head!

Or is it Dick Kopf?



> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ad absurdum per aspera]

> I suspect that what he saw was a combination of wry humor and a chunk of the
> fuselage of one of those a/c specially rebuilt to haul "Wide Loads" on its
> way from the boneyard to scrap, Tucson being the site of the US's largest
> boneyard. There's one model built on the "chassis" of the old Boeing
> Stratocruiser/C-97 which has an enormous diameter.

Those "Pregnant Guppy" type of planes have been around a while,
actually. The need originated with the space program, which had to
transport bulky (up to 20 foot diam.), albeit not proportionately
heavy, objects without either the delays of sea cargo or the need to
close roads and find a way around every low bridge and power line
between the manufacturers' sites and vehicle assembly -- especially
problematic in when the Interstate highway system was still young and
partial.


Boeing recently turned a used 747 into a "Large Cargo Freighter" that
they say is for in-house use to transport fuselage sections, as well as
wings, for the 787.
(http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2005/june/ts_sf05.html).
The Airbus equivalent is nicknamed the "Beluga" for instantly obvious
reasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Beluga)

I don't know whether either of them would be quite up to A380 fuselage
sections, nor whether that would even be needed. They use specialized
ships and barges for the big parts, except some or all of the
empennage, which goes via Beluga, I think. Getting A380 pieces to
look like an airplane involves dizzying logistics and a lot of modes
and miles of surface transport. Probing around on
http://www.airbus.com/en/ gives an idea (hopefully there's a non-Flash,
low-graphics version for those who don't have broadband).

Cheers,
--Joe "Oversize load" Chew

[Hatunen]

On 5 Dec 2006 16:14:36 -0800, "Ad absurdum per aspera"
> wrote:

>
>> I suspect that what he saw was a combination of wry humor and a chunk of the
>> fuselage of one of those a/c specially rebuilt to haul "Wide Loads" on its
>> way from the boneyard to scrap, Tucson being the site of the US's largest
>> boneyard. There's one model built on the "chassis" of the old Boeing
>> Stratocruiser/C-97 which has an enormous diameter.
>
>Those "Pregnant Guppy" type of planes have been around a while,
>actually. The need originated with the space program, which had to
>transport bulky (up to 20 foot diam.), albeit not proportionately
>heavy, objects without either the delays of sea cargo or the need to
>close roads and find a way around every low bridge and power line
>between the manufacturers' sites and vehicle assembly -- especially
>problematic in when the Interstate highway system was still young and
>partial.

There's a Super Guppy on static display at the Pima Air and Space
Museum here in Tucson off I-10 on the south edge of Davis-Monthan
Air Force Base and the "Boneyard",
http://www.sarimage.com/Aviation/DavisMonthan/ .

It's grotesquely monstrous.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

[Ad absurdum per aspera]

> There's a Super Guppy on static display at the Pima Air and Space
> Museum here in Tucson off I-10 on the south edge of Davis-Monthan
> Air Force Base and the "Boneyard",
> http://www.sarimage.com/Aviation/DavisMonthan/ .
>
> It's grotesquely monstrous.

Yes, that was more or less my first thought upon seeing one at El Paso
years ago. There is something just *wrong* about it, less reminscent
of the sleekness of an airplane or even an airship than... I dunno; an
engorged aluminum tick. A giant-brained alien from the cover of an old
sci-fi paperback. Some deep-sea creature that was brought to the
surface too fast. You don't even expect it to be unloaded through
a cargo door so much as split open and spawn its cargo. Yet I
couldn't take my eyes off it -- just stood there recalibrating my
assumptions of what can and can't fly; not just in terms of the shape
but what those seemingly tiny wings and engines might accomplish.
Fascinating in a surreal sort of way.

--Joe

[David Lesher]

"Ad absurdum per aspera" > writes:


>> I suspect that what he saw was a combination of wry humor and a chunk of the
>> fuselage of one of those a/c specially rebuilt to haul "Wide Loads" on its
>> way from the boneyard to scrap, Tucson being the site of the US's largest
>> boneyard. There's one model built on the "chassis" of the old Boeing
>> Stratocruiser/C-97 which has an enormous diameter.

>Those "Pregnant Guppy" type of planes have been around a while,
>actually. The need originated with the space program, which had to
>transport bulky (up to 20 foot diam.), albeit not proportionately
>heavy, objects without either the delays of sea cargo or the need to
>close roads and find a way around every low bridge and power line
>between the manufacturers' sites and vehicle assembly -- especially
>problematic in when the Interstate highway system was still young and
>partial.


How are the airlines moving spare 767/777 style engines around?

In the 707 era, UAL at least had a 707/DC8 with a 3rd pylon to
carry the inbound for repair or outbound for installation engine,
esp. to Hawaii...


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

David Lesher wrote:
>
>
> How are the airlines moving spare 767/777 style engines around?

I live in the same town as a major P&W rebuild center.

I see many, many, engines come and go on drop-center trailer trucks,
pulled by tractors with massive sleepers, satellite TV, etc... They're
more like tractor trailer campers than trucks. There seems to be a
major specialty industry moving engines. I really doubt these trucks
would be practical for a trip of less than a few hundred miles.

[David Lesher]

B A R R Y > writes:

>> How are the airlines moving spare 767/777 style engines around?

>I live in the same town as a major P&W rebuild center.

>I see many, many, engines come and go on drop-center trailer trucks,
>pulled by tractors with massive sleepers, satellite TV, etc... They're
>more like tractor trailer campers than trucks. There seems to be a
>major specialty industry moving engines. I really doubt these trucks
>would be practical for a trip of less than a few hundred miles.

And how long does it the truck take to get to HNL?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

David Lesher wrote:
>
> And how long does it the truck take to get to HNL?

Hawaii has interstate highways, no? <G>

Look on your map for the intersection of I-80 and H1...

[Ad absurdum per aspera]

The 747 supposedly still has an underwing hardpoint meant for ferrying
a spare engine. Dunno if this is general purpose or only suitable for
the type(s) of engines used on the 747.

However, I think this has gotten somewhat passe' due to various
factors, including increasing availability of freighter variants of the
widebodies, the low probability of zorching an engine so badly that you
have to replace the whole thing rather than put in parts or
subassemblies, and more engine repair facilities in more places.

--Joe

[Geoff Miller]

Ad absurdum per aspera > writes:

> The 747 supposedly still has an underwing hardpoint meant for
> ferrying a spare engine. Dunno if this is general purpose or
> only suitable for the type(s) of engines used on the 747.

Good question. I've only ever seen pictures of such planes carrying
spare engines of the same type they use, or at least of the same
shape. But who knows what might be out there?


> However, I think this has gotten somewhat passe' due to various
> factors, including increasing availability of freighter variants
> of the widebodies, the low probability of zorching an engine so
> badly that you have to replace the whole thing rather than put in
> parts or subassemblies, and more engine repair facilities in more
> places.

I suspect that the parts that are both the most likely to fail and
the easiest to replace (generators, pumps, valves, etc.) are readily
available along a given route and pretty much always have been, so
I'd lean toward the freighter-availability explanation.



Geoff

--
"The left has a whole vocabulary devoted to depicting people who
do not meet standards as people who have been denied 'access.'"
-- Thomas Sowell