Drug puts U.S. troops at risk for blood clots

[Paul[_3_]]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/

[redc1c4]

Paul wrote:
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/

as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.

this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.

they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
chance.

maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
effects of the coagulant.

redc1c4,
(there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

[Matt[_1_]]

It's hard to fault the military here. If I'm bleeding to death, I want
them to stop it now and take some risks rather than NOT stop it.

Matt



redc1c4 wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> >
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>
> as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.
>
> this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
> is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.
>
> they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
> chance.
>
> maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
> stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
> with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
> effects of the coagulant.
>
> redc1c4,
> (there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
> --
> "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
> considerable watching."
>
> Army Officer's Guide

[Paul[_3_]]

"redc1c4" > wrote in message
...
> Paul wrote:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>
> as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.
>
> this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
> is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.
>
> they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
> chance.
>
> maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
> stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
> with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
> effects of the coagulant.
>
> redc1c4,
> (there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
> --
> "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
> considerable watching."
>
> Army Officer's Guide

I think you are right.. and that WAS noted in the story... if a wounded
soldier is bleeding out...
giving him or her a drug that MIGHT cause problems later on, still can and
does seem to
stop them from dying from blood loss in the short term.

Still having this info out there, lets a little sunshine in on to what will
probably be a contraversy later on.

[La N]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
>
> "redc1c4" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Paul wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>
>> as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.
>>
>> this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
>> is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.
>>
>> they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
>> chance.
>>
>> maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
>> stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
>> with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
>> effects of the coagulant.
>>
>> redc1c4,
>> (there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
>> --
>> "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
>> considerable watching."
>>
>> Army Officer's Guide
>
> I think you are right.. and that WAS noted in the story... if a wounded
> soldier is bleeding out...
> giving him or her a drug that MIGHT cause problems later on, still can
> and does seem to
> stop them from dying from blood loss in the short term.
>
> Still having this info out there, lets a little sunshine in on to what
> will probably be a contraversy later on.
>

I don't know if you saw the documentary "Combat Hospital", but the medical
staff are literally mopping up buckets of blood from the floor each day.
You *are* right that it is good note to some possible outcomes of the drug
use. I will be monitored for a long time because of a chemotherapy drug
given to me 6 years ago which is known to cause secondary leukemias 10-12
years after use.

Come to think of it, best not to read the monographs of any drug that you
are prescribed ... they all have long lists of potential short term and long
term side effects ....%)

- nilita

[Colin Campbell]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:52:59 -0600, "Paul" > wrote:

>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>

The media does it again.

Here is a drug that saves the lives of people who would otherwise have
died - and they want to ban it because a few of them die.

If it saves more people than it kills - we need to use it.



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

[Andrew Chaplin]

"La N" > wrote in message
news:n5j8h.12196$_Z2.6253@edtnps89...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "redc1c4" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>>
>>> as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.
>>>
>>> this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
>>> is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.
>>>
>>> they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
>>> chance.
>>>
>>> maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
>>> stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
>>> with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
>>> effects of the coagulant.
>>>
>>> redc1c4,
>>> (there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
>>> --
>>> "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
>>> considerable watching."
>>>
>>> Army Officer's Guide
>>
>> I think you are right.. and that WAS noted in the story... if a wounded
>> soldier is bleeding out...
>> giving him or her a drug that MIGHT cause problems later on, still can and
>> does seem to
>> stop them from dying from blood loss in the short term.
>>
>> Still having this info out there, lets a little sunshine in on to what will
>> probably be a contraversy later on.
>>
>
> I don't know if you saw the documentary "Combat Hospital", but the medical
> staff are literally mopping up buckets of blood from the floor each day. You
> *are* right that it is good note to some possible outcomes of the drug use.
> I will be monitored for a long time because of a chemotherapy drug given to
> me 6 years ago which is known to cause secondary leukemias 10-12 years after
> use.
>
> Come to think of it, best not to read the monographs of any drug that you
> are prescribed ... they all have long lists of potential short term and long
> term side effects ....%)

The troops going to Kandahar have seen a lot of changes in their combat first
aid training. Besides the Israeli shell dressing and new tourniquet now on
issue, the soldiers carry "Quick Clot" alias "HemCon" coagulant. Despite the
risk involved in its use, the CF medics have found that if everyone is trained
and drilled on how to use it correctly, it saves lives.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[La N]

"Andrew Chaplin" > wrote in message
...
> "La N" > wrote in message
> news:n5j8h.12196$_Z2.6253@edtnps89...
>>
>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "redc1c4" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>>>
>>>> as opposed to just bleeding out in the ER/OR.
>>>>
>>>> this is one of those scenarios where if they do nothing the patient
>>>> is DRT. you give them the factor, and they might make it.
>>>>
>>>> they might also go on ART status later, but at least they have a
>>>> chance.
>>>>
>>>> maybe what they need to do is give the factor, stop the bleeding,
>>>> stabilize the patient & their blood circulation, then treat them
>>>> with a LMW heparin or some other anti-coagulant to counter the side
>>>> effects of the coagulant.
>>>>
>>>> redc1c4,
>>>> (there's a reason it's called "practicing medicine".... %-)
>>>> --
>>>> "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
>>>> considerable watching."
>>>>
>>>> Army Officer's Guide
>>>
>>> I think you are right.. and that WAS noted in the story... if a wounded
>>> soldier is bleeding out...
>>> giving him or her a drug that MIGHT cause problems later on, still can
>>> and does seem to
>>> stop them from dying from blood loss in the short term.
>>>
>>> Still having this info out there, lets a little sunshine in on to what
>>> will probably be a contraversy later on.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know if you saw the documentary "Combat Hospital", but the
>> medical staff are literally mopping up buckets of blood from the floor
>> each day. You *are* right that it is good note to some possible outcomes
>> of the drug use. I will be monitored for a long time because of a
>> chemotherapy drug given to me 6 years ago which is known to cause
>> secondary leukemias 10-12 years after use.
>>
>> Come to think of it, best not to read the monographs of any drug that you
>> are prescribed ... they all have long lists of potential short term and
>> long term side effects ....%)
>
> The troops going to Kandahar have seen a lot of changes in their combat
> first aid training. Besides the Israeli shell dressing and new tourniquet
> now on issue, the soldiers carry "Quick Clot" alias "HemCon" coagulant.
> Despite the risk involved in its use, the CF medics have found that if
> everyone is trained and drilled on how to use it correctly, it saves
> lives.
> --

Medics and others - at least in the States - are currently in training too
to try to learn how to expand their treatments to make the one hour max
transport to hospital (the one hour window to save a life) to two hours. So
what you mention may be part of the protocol.

- nilita

[[email protected]]

Paul wrote:
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/




Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
with DU poisoning.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>
>
>
>
> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
> with DU poisoning.

http://eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

[Colin Campbell]

On 23 Nov 2006 11:42:53 -0800, wrote:

>
>Paul wrote:
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>
>
>
>
>Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>with DU poisoning.

So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
physics nor any chemistry classes.

It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
gullible.

Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

[quarterbackjoe]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2006 11:42:53 -0800, wrote:
>
>> Paul wrote:
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>> with DU poisoning.
>
> So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
> physics nor any chemistry classes.
>
> It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
> claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
> gullible.
>
> Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?

How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly killed
yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
quarterbackjoe > wrote:

> Colin Campbell wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2006 11:42:53 -0800, wrote:
> >
> >> Paul wrote:
> >>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
> >> with DU poisoning.
> >
> > So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
> > physics nor any chemistry classes.
> >
> > It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
> > claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
> > gullible.
> >
> > Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?
>
> How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly killed
> yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

You could have just answered "no" and been done with it.

But noooooooooo...

[miguel]

Steve Hix wrote:
> quarterbackjoe wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> Paul wrote:

>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/

>>>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're
>>>> having with DU poisoning.

>>> So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had
>>> any physics nor any chemistry classes.

>>> It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all
>>> those claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool
>>> the gullible.

>>> Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?

Colon, you are so smrt! smrt!

>> How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly
>> killed yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

> You could have just answered "no" and been done with it.

Where's the fun in that, tiny hix?

miguel


--
Democrats use bookmarks.
Republicans just bend over a page.

[Colin Campbell]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:16:48 -0800, quarterbackjoe
> wrote:


>>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>>> with DU poisoning.
>>
>> So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
>> physics nor any chemistry classes.
>>
>> It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
>> claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
>> gullible.
>>
>> Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?
>
>How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly killed
>yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

Wow. I am impressed with the way you refuted my comments about the DU
hoax.

BTW - what makes you think you have any clue whatsoever about what is
going on in Iraq?




--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

[quarterbackjoe]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:16:48 -0800, quarterbackjoe
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>>>> with DU poisoning.
>>> So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
>>> physics nor any chemistry classes.
>>>
>>> It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
>>> claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
>>> gullible.
>>>
>>> Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?
>> How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly killed
>> yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?
>
> Wow. I am impressed with the way you refuted my comments about the DU
> hoax.

Not as impressed as I am with your ability to evade my question about
the war?

> BTW - what makes you think you have any clue whatsoever about what is
> going on in Iraq?

How's that war of yours going, colon? Enough people senselessly killed
yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

I think I hit a nerve.

[Tankfixer]

In article . com>,
mumbled
>
> Paul wrote:
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>
>
>
>
> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
> with DU poisoning.
>

Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.

[Paul J. Adam]

In message et>,
Tankfixer > writes
>In article . com>,
mumbled
>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>> with DU poisoning.
>
>Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.

Now it's proving to be so difficult to substantiate the horror stories
about depleted uranium, there's a need for something else to whine
about...

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)co<dot>uk

[Colin Campbell]

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:05:58 -0800, quarterbackjoe
> wrote:

>Colin Campbell wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:16:48 -0800, quarterbackjoe
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>>>>> with DU poisoning.
>>>> So you have decided to proudly proclaim that you have neither had any
>>>> physics nor any chemistry classes.
>>>>
>>>> It is really sad that anybody who can read an MSDS knows all those
>>>> claims about how dangerous DU is are hoaxes meant to fool the
>>>> gullible.
>>>>
>>>> Bet you do not even know what an MSDS is - right?
>>> How's that war of yours going, Colin? Enough people senselessly killed
>>> yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?
>>
>> Wow. I am impressed with the way you refuted my comments about the DU
>> hoax.
>
>Not as impressed as I am with your ability to evade my question about
>the war?

Not evading anything - just keeping on subject.

>
>> BTW - what makes you think you have any clue whatsoever about what is
>> going on in Iraq?
>
>How's that war of yours going, colon? Enough people senselessly killed
>yet for you to jump off the bandwagon?

Better than you think.

I guess that you missed the fact that Iraqi people approved their
constitution in a national referendum over a year ago?

I guess that you missed the fact that the Iraqi people elected a
parliament just under a year ago?

Here we have one of the world's youngest democracies - and you are
rooting for the people who want to deny the Iraqi people the freedoms
that they voted for.


>
>I think I hit a nerve.

Naw, didn't even land in the range fan.



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

[Colin Campbell]

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:28:26 GMT, Tankfixer >
wrote:

>In article . com>,
mumbled
>>
>> Paul wrote:
>> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>> with DU poisoning.
>>
>
>Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.

Of course not! He hates Bush and thus does not need facts or logic!



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.

[Tankfixer]

In article >,
mumbled
> In message et>,
> Tankfixer > writes
> >In article . com>,
> mumbled
> >> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
> >> with DU poisoning.
> >
> >Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.
>
> Now it's proving to be so difficult to substantiate the horror stories
> about depleted uranium, there's a need for something else to whine
> about...
>

I suspect you are right.
HOpe they are never in a situation where that drug might mean life and
death.
I would hate for them to have to refuse it for offending thier
sensiblitites.

[Daryl Hunt]

"Colin Campbell" (remove underscore)> wrote in
message ...
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:28:26 GMT, Tankfixer >
> wrote:
>
>>In article . com>,
mumbled
>>>
>>> Paul wrote:
>>> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
>>> with DU poisoning.
>>>
>>
>>Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.
>
> Of course not! He hates Bush and thus does not need facts or logic!

Newsflash: Everyone hates Bush but that has nothing to do with any of this.
If you like Bush then I suggest you get very, very far away from anything
Military in nature.

[Tankfixer]

In article >,
mumbled
>
> "Colin Campbell" (remove underscore)> wrote in
> message ...
> > On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:28:26 GMT, Tankfixer >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>In article . com>,
> mumbled
> >>>
> >>> Paul wrote:
> >>> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15790137/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maybe this is all a cover story to hide the problems they're having
> >>> with DU poisoning.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Not that you have any cite for that silly assertion.
> >
> > Of course not! He hates Bush and thus does not need facts or logic!
>
> Newsflash: Everyone hates Bush but that has nothing to do with any of this.
> If you like Bush then I suggest you get very, very far away from anything
> Military in nature.

Hmm
A statement that only proves the OP post....