Letters Asking to Buy My Glider

[ContestID67]

I have received several letters over the last year from people
interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
and marketable glider.

I also wonder if it is some type of scam. The letter's content and
other small detals makes them seem like genuine enquiries.

I always reply back to the author with a nicely worded, "Thanks but no
thanks. I'll contact you if I change my mind." Often I get back a
response which clearly is from a glider pilot.

What is your experience?

John "67R"

[[email protected]]

with your address available on the FAA's site, its not that hard to
conceive as possible. I have done the same looking for other Cherokee
II owners, in my case looking for a set of plans. I didnt go so far as
to send letters, but cross referenced names with the SSAs member list
with emails and harassed people that way.

ContestID67 wrote:
> I have received several letters over the last year from people
> interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
> or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
> and marketable glider.
>
> I also wonder if it is some type of scam. The letter's content and
> other small detals makes them seem like genuine enquiries.
>
> I always reply back to the author with a nicely worded, "Thanks but no
> thanks. I'll contact you if I change my mind." Often I get back a
> response which clearly is from a glider pilot.
>
> What is your experience?
>
> John "67R"

[Tim Mara]

please see the warning on my want-ads page: http://www.wingsandwheels.com/wantads1.htm
Warning !
If you receive an email similar to this example it is a scam!
"Hello,I Am interested in buying your advertised ads for sale {JANTAR GFK SAILPLANE} that been posted on the ad 2004 i am a seller that buy items and resell so want to buy your JANTAR SAILPLANE. I will like to know the actual price you want to offer it for sale and the present condition and the pics of it.and mode of my payment will be a cheque drawn from an UK bank. Note that the shipping will be handle by my shipper that will come to you house for that pickup,if this is okay by you i want you to get back to me with your full name, your full contact address and your full phone number. best regards Smith."

this is one of the common scams, though there are many others to be aware of......base line is, if it sounds too good or simple to be true.....it likely is!
tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com



"ContestID67" > wrote in message ups.com...
>I have received several letters over the last year from people
> interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
> or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
> and marketable glider.
>
> I also wonder if it is some type of scam. The letter's content and
> other small detals makes them seem like genuine enquiries.
>
> I always reply back to the author with a nicely worded, "Thanks but no
> thanks. I'll contact you if I change my mind." Often I get back a
> response which clearly is from a glider pilot.
>
> What is your experience?
>
> John "67R"
>

[Marc Ramsey]

ContestID67 wrote:
> I have received several letters over the last year from people
> interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
> or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
> and marketable glider.

I've sent such a letter a few times myself. I've had interest in
purchasing particular types of classic gliders, and by searching the FAA
database, came up with a few in the area that likely haven't been flown
in years. If no other method of contact is available, I'll send a nice
letter to the address listed in the FAA database. Sometimes, I even get
a response...

Marc

[Wayne Paul]

"ContestID67" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I have received several letters over the last year from people
> interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
> or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
> and marketable glider.
>
> I also wonder if it is some type of scam. The letter's content and
> other small detals makes them seem like genuine enquiries.
>
> I always reply back to the author with a nicely worded, "Thanks but no
> thanks. I'll contact you if I change my mind." Often I get back a
> response which clearly is from a glider pilot.
>
> What is your experience?
>
> John "67R"
>

John,

About 12 years ago I was ready to purchase my first sailplane. Being new to
the sport the local group of pilots recommended that I purchase a Ka-6. A
mass mailing was sent to all owners west of the Appalachian Mountains. As a
result I found a nice Ka-6E at a reasonable price located in Kentucky.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogallery/valley/Ka-6E.jpg --
http://www.soaridaho.com/photogallery/valley/Wayne_with_Ka-6E.jpg)

It was November the Bronco II was readied for the trip and off I went. The
trip to East was a non-event; however, returning home was a different story.
First off, the trailer didn't track well and the Bronco II's short wheel
base didn't help the situation.. Then came a massive row of thunder storms
complete with tornados. Once west of the Mississippi River all was well
until I reached Wyoming. The first winter snow storm hit closing I-80.
Luck was with me, I was able to find a motel room for the night. The next
day about noon I-80 was open (chains required.); however, a high wind
warning still in effect. I chained all four wheels of the Bronco II and
headed west.

The wind wasn't bad as I left Laramie; however, it got stronger, and
stronger as I approached Elk Mountain. As the winds increased it was
necessary to drive with the right wheels on the unplowed shoulder in order
to maintain control of the trailer. I took my time and threaded my way
around and between several overturned "18 wheelers." About 20 miles west of
the summit the winds settled down. The chains were removed at Rawlins and
the rest of the trip to Nampa was uneventful.

Back to the subject line -- For a person looking for a specific make and
model, a mass mailing from the FAA database is worth the effort. If your
enquiries contain specific questions relating to your sailplane, I would
consider them genuine. However, the advice Tim offers on the Wings and
Wheels website should be taken seriously.
(http://www.wingsandwheels.com:80/wantads1.htm)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[Gary Emerson]

ContestID67 wrote:
> I have received several letters over the last year from people
> interested in purchasing my glider. I was wondering if this is common
> or rare? I'd like to think it rare and that I own a highly desireable
> and marketable glider.
>
> I also wonder if it is some type of scam. The letter's content and
> other small detals makes them seem like genuine enquiries.
>
> I always reply back to the author with a nicely worded, "Thanks but no
> thanks. I'll contact you if I change my mind." Often I get back a
> response which clearly is from a glider pilot.
>
> What is your experience?
>
> John "67R"
>
Begs the question... what model sailplane do you own?

[ContestID67]

I wonder aloud if this has to do with the desireability (I'd like to
think) of my sailplane, a DG-101G ELAN. Obviously the ship is not the
high point of aerodynamics but there are four distinct reasons why I
think the above;

1) When I bought the ship it was a race with two other pilots to buy
the same ship. I happened to be quickest on the trigger with a phone
call. Luckily I had a friend point it out to me.

2) Repeated ads in Soaring for "DG owners we have buyers for your
ship". I don't see that with other makes and models.

3) I don't see them for sale in Soaring, Mara's, etc.

4) I keep getting mail from interested buyers (and they are better
worded than Mara's scam emails).

Of course it could be rarity as there are just 14 DG-100s (all types)
in the FAA registry of which only 9 are DG100G (same as DG101G). Just
my $0.02.

- John

[Marc Ramsey]

ContestID67 wrote:
> I wonder aloud if this has to do with the desireability (I'd like to
> think) of my sailplane, a DG-101G ELAN. Obviously the ship is not the
> high point of aerodynamics but there are four distinct reasons why I
> think the above;
>
> 1) When I bought the ship it was a race with two other pilots to buy
> the same ship. I happened to be quickest on the trigger with a phone
> call. Luckily I had a friend point it out to me.
>
> 2) Repeated ads in Soaring for "DG owners we have buyers for your
> ship". I don't see that with other makes and models.
>
> 3) I don't see them for sale in Soaring, Mara's, etc.
>
> 4) I keep getting mail from interested buyers (and they are better
> worded than Mara's scam emails).

As a former DG-101G owner, I can tell you that quite a few people know
that they are one of the best buys in glass gliders in the US $20K to
$30K range, if you can find one. And, I'll also say that, properly
sealed (mine had sealed pushrods, S-seals on the ailerons, and even
routed channels for the mylar), I used to be able to pretty consistently
outclimb and outrun any LS-4, Pegase, or ASW-19 I came across 8^)

Marc

[[email protected]]

Hello John,
No, I do not believe that what you are getting to be a SCAM.
If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type to become
available, it might take a while and someone else could beat
you to it.
I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter and a
member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the US who
had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
I just suggested to another club member to decide on what
sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write a letter to
the owners and see if they are interested in selling their glider.

Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to get someone
to sell their glider.

Randy

N304RS

[Tim Taylor]

Gary Emerson wrote:

> >
> Begs the question... what model sailplane do you own?

GLASER-DIRKS FLUGZEUGBAU
DG-100G

[Frank Whiteley]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> ContestID67 wrote:
> > I wonder aloud if this has to do with the desireability (I'd like to
> > think) of my sailplane, a DG-101G ELAN. Obviously the ship is not the
> > high point of aerodynamics but there are four distinct reasons why I
> > think the above;
> >
> > 1) When I bought the ship it was a race with two other pilots to buy
> > the same ship. I happened to be quickest on the trigger with a phone
> > call. Luckily I had a friend point it out to me.
> >
> > 2) Repeated ads in Soaring for "DG owners we have buyers for your
> > ship". I don't see that with other makes and models.
> >
> > 3) I don't see them for sale in Soaring, Mara's, etc.
> >
> > 4) I keep getting mail from interested buyers (and they are better
> > worded than Mara's scam emails).
>
> As a former DG-101G owner, I can tell you that quite a few people know
> that they are one of the best buys in glass gliders in the US $20K to
> $30K range, if you can find one. And, I'll also say that, properly
> sealed (mine had sealed pushrods, S-seals on the ailerons, and even
> routed channels for the mylar), I used to be able to pretty consistently
> outclimb and outrun any LS-4, Pegase, or ASW-19 I came across 8^)
>
> Marc
As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.

We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.

Frank Whiteley

[Frank Whiteley]

wrote:
> Hello John,
> No, I do not believe that what you are getting to be a SCAM.
> If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type to become
> available, it might take a while and someone else could beat
> you to it.
> I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter and a
> member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the US who
> had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
> I just suggested to another club member to decide on what
> sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write a letter to
> the owners and see if they are interested in selling their glider.
>
> Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to get someone
> to sell their glider.
>
> Randy
>
> N304RS

Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use. Nobody would part
with them. But it's a good strategy.

Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.

Frank Whiteley

[Marc Ramsey]

Frank Whiteley wrote:
> As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
> ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
> payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
> tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
> which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
> Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
> way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.
>
> We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
> a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
> we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
> passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.

1) DG-100 != DG-100G (101).
2) You gotta properly seal them to make them fly to their potential (the
101 Johnson tested wasn't sealed at all, which was stated in the article).
3) DG offered (still?) an inexpensive retrofit kit with 300 style
upswept wing tips (which mine didn't have) that got rid of the downward
twist and significantly improved high speed performance, but there was
no point to flying that fast, even with water.

No, I couldn't outrun Jantar Std 2s and 3s, but I'd catch and pass them
by the top of the next thermal. Mine would eat the local LS-4s for lunch...

Marc

[Andy Melville]

There are currently 2 Juniors (SZD51-1)for sale in
the UK at reasonable prices and it doesnt cost as much
as you think to ship.Try www.gliderpilot.net

At 06:24 28 November 2006, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>
wrote:
>> Hello John,
>> No, I do not believe that what you are getting to
>>be a SCAM.
>> If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type
>>to become
>> available, it might take a while and someone else
>>could beat
>> you to it.
>> I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter
>>and a
>> member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the
>>US who
>> had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
>> I just suggested to another club member to decide
>>on what
>> sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write
>>a letter to
>> the owners and see if they are interested in selling
>>their glider.
>>
>> Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to
>>get someone
>> to sell their glider.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> N304RS
>
>Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use.
> Nobody would part
>with them. But it's a good strategy.
>
>Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.
>
>Frank Whiteley
>
>

[Frank Whiteley]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
> > ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
> > payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
> > tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
> > which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
> > Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
> > way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.
> >
> > We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
> > a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
> > we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
> > passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.
>
> 1) DG-100 != DG-100G (101).
> 2) You gotta properly seal them to make them fly to their potential (the
> 101 Johnson tested wasn't sealed at all, which was stated in the article).
> 3) DG offered (still?) an inexpensive retrofit kit with 300 style
> upswept wing tips (which mine didn't have) that got rid of the downward
> twist and significantly improved high speed performance, but there was
> no point to flying that fast, even with water.
>
> No, I couldn't outrun Jantar Std 2s and 3s, but I'd catch and pass them
> by the top of the next thermal. Mine would eat the local LS-4s for lunch...
>
> Marc
Other than canopy and tailplane, what's the real diff? IIRC, same
wing, same fuselage, same A/R. G/101 had better cockpit protection.
Nothing indicated on the DG web site that would indicate a real
performance distinction. The one I partnered in held the NV 100k
record for a time. True the split canopy made sealing a bit of an
issue, the front hinged is preferred, but that's the only substantial
difference WRT performance. Either way, it's a nice, strong glider.

Frank

[Frank Whiteley]

Thanks, but not in the market at the moment.

Searching gliderpilot.net I found one in the UK listed this month, this
year, another in Poland listed January 2006, plus a UK club looking for
a Junior since 1999. Some of those folks should talk or pull their
ads.

UKP=$1.95+ this morning;^*

Frank




Andy Melville wrote:
> There are currently 2 Juniors (SZD51-1)for sale in
> the UK at reasonable prices and it doesnt cost as much
> as you think to ship.Try www.gliderpilot.net
>
> At 06:24 28 November 2006, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> >
> wrote:
> >> Hello John,
> >> No, I do not believe that what you are getting to
> >>be a SCAM.
> >> If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type
> >>to become
> >> available, it might take a while and someone else
> >>could beat
> >> you to it.
> >> I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter
> >>and a
> >> member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the
> >>US who
> >> had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
> >> I just suggested to another club member to decide
> >>on what
> >> sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write
> >>a letter to
> >> the owners and see if they are interested in selling
> >>their glider.
> >>
> >> Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to
> >>get someone
> >> to sell their glider.
> >>
> >> Randy
> >>
> >> N304RS
> >
> >Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use.
> > Nobody would part
> >with them. But it's a good strategy.
> >
> >Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.
> >
> >Frank Whiteley
> >
> >

[Marc Ramsey]

Frank Whiteley wrote:
> Other than canopy and tailplane, what's the real diff? IIRC, same
> wing, same fuselage, same A/R. G/101 had better cockpit protection.

Cockpit was rearranged for safety, better ergonomics, and to accommodate
larger pilots. Water ballast system changed. Better venting from the
cockpit through to the tail. Spoiler box changed for better sealing.
ELAN put some effort into refining their production methods, so the G
models generally have smoother wings than the DG produced 100s.

> Nothing indicated on the DG web site that would indicate a real
> performance distinction. The one I partnered in held the NV 100k
> record for a time. True the split canopy made sealing a bit of an
> issue, the front hinged is preferred, but that's the only substantial
> difference WRT performance.

Prep is everything. Many were purchased later in the production cycle
when it was being sold as a cheap first glider (new purchase price was
$12000US from ELAN). As such, many lacked niceties such as mylar seals,
ballast bags, etc. Mine was rather obsessively worked on by its prior
owners, which resulted in quite decent performance when flown within its
limitations (i.e., one must resist the temptation to cruise at over 90
knots with water).

> Either way, it's a nice, strong glider.

True, but it is a bit more than that. By the time I was ready to sell,
I had a list of people who wanted to buy it, and made a nice profit in
the end...

Marc

[ContestID67]

It is good to hear in the above dialog that, while the DG-100 series
isn't a rocket ship, it holds its value (especially the DG-101G) due to
its desireability for various reasons. That should make my wife
happier about the purchase of gliders in general.

Note that my DG-101G was flown in a regional contest by a past Polish
national champion (Janusz Centka) to a first place finish in Sports
Class. That says to me it isn't always the airplane, it's the
pilot...at least to a certain extent.

I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?

- John

[Marc Ramsey]

ContestID67 wrote:
> I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
> if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?

300, yes, they have held their value pretty consistently over the past
decade or so. The 303 is a bit more complicated, as it is in the price
territory of perceived "better" standard class gliders like earlier
Discus and ASW-24 models. My 303 was definitely more capable glider
than my 101, but the increment in performance and fun factor wasn't
really worth twice the price to me. In terms of bang for the buck, the
101 beat it by a wide margin...

Marc

[[email protected]]

I used to own a DG-100 and thought it very nice flying ship. The only
thing I didn't really like was the two piece canopy. I did my diamond
goal/gold distance in it and averaged almost 100 kph without trying too
hard, and that was dry. I had to sell it in the mid 90's and since
flew an ASW-20 for a while and a Ventus B for a few flights one year.
The 20 and Ventus were very good gliders and fast but when I was able
to buy another glider I wanted a DG-202 or a DG-101G and sent some
letters and emails. No one was selling but I ended up with a new
friend out of sending the letters.

After a year or so I ended up with a DG-300 and am very happy with it.
The previous owner had winglets installed. It will probably climb in a
gopher fart (with the air vent closed). The 101G is a good value in
the low to mid 20's but the trailers can be a crap shoot. The 300 is
an awfully nice glider and maybe better value. I've also flown a 303
acro once and from what I remember it wasn't much different than the
300.




On Nov 28, 11:53 am, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> ContestID67 wrote:
> > I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
> > if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?300, yes, they have held their value pretty consistently over the past
> decade or so. The 303 is a bit more complicated, as it is in the price
> territory of perceived "better" standard class gliders like earlier
> Discus and ASW-24 models. My 303 was definitely more capable glider
> than my 101, but the increment in performance and fun factor wasn't
> really worth twice the price to me. In terms of bang for the buck, the
> 101 beat it by a wide margin...
>
> Marc

[[email protected]]

David Stevenson winning a regional sports class contest in a Ka-6 is
what shows me that it is the pilot, not the glider.