TSA Follies

[john smith]

The following Letter to the Editor appeared in the Sunday, December 3,
2006 COLUMBUS DISPATCH. It relates to procedures at the Port Columbus
International Airport in Columbus Ohio (KCMH)

Agency doesn’t make air travelers feel safer
Sunday, December 03, 2006

During the Thanksgiving weekend travel rush, airline passengers were
forbidden to carry pies in their hand luggage. Transportation Security
Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.

If the pies were considered too dangerous to bring aboard airline
flights, how could it have been safe to distribute the pies to our armed
forces?

The TSA’s pie-redistribution plan showcases the often-absurd and
arbitrary rules that the flying public faces.

Now the fodder for Saturday Night Live sketches, the TSA’s baffling
rules and its inconsistent enforcement actually undermine the public’s
confidence in its effectiveness. If the agency is focusing on items,
like pie, that it tacitly admits are harmless, it could easily be
distracted from more-serious threats.

The pie incident does little to enhance the agency’s tarnished
reputation. Absurd rules about plastic bags, TSA officers barking
orders, needless and humiliating "secondary searches" and mishandled
bags have become commonplace hassles.

Although the agency often says that it cannot discuss its rules or
procedures for security reasons, we all need to challenge the TSA to a
closer, more-public review of its rules, procedures and the behavior of
its employees.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:41:35 GMT, john smith > wrote in
>:

>Transportation Security
>Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
>distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.
>
>If the pies were considered too dangerous to bring aboard airline
>flights, how could it have been safe to distribute the pies to our armed
>forces?

The armed forces have publicly demonstrated their disregard for human
life, even there own.

Which president was it who marched troops through ground zero
immediately subsequent to a nuclear detonation in Utah?

It's pretty clear that our government has little regard for the
personal safety of its soldiers; what did it take to get their vehicle
and body armor in Iraq?

But seriously, there is little question that the TSA has an impossible
task, and is apparently lead by a maniacal imbecile who would further
Osoma's cause at the expense of the comfort of the flying public.

Aren't they the same ones who established a line on a chart to stop
terror attacks on the White House?

The TSA is the tangible embodiment of two-digit IQs in charge of our
safety. Apparently anyone with a higher intelligence quotient does
not choose security or law enforcement as an occupation. It takes a
certain cognizance of one's inferiority to motivate them to seek a
life of controlling others in the vain attempt to validate their self
delusion superiority.

[Jay Beckman]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:41:35 GMT, john smith > wrote in
> >:
>
>>Transportation Security
>>Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
>>distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.
>>
>>If the pies were considered too dangerous to bring aboard airline
>>flights, how could it have been safe to distribute the pies to our armed
>>forces?
>
> The armed forces have publicly demonstrated their disregard for human
> life, even there own.

Larry,

This is one of the most crass, ignorant and unbelieveably stupid comments I
think I've ever read here. This even surpasses our little buddy Mx.

There has never been a military in the entire history of this planet which
has had more destructive power and shown more of a desire to NOT use it than
the military forces of the United States.

*PLONK*

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Mxsmanic]

Larry Dighera writes:

> The TSA is the tangible embodiment of two-digit IQs in charge of our
> safety. Apparently anyone with a higher intelligence quotient does
> not choose security or law enforcement as an occupation.

Actually, LEOs overall have a slightly higher than average IQ. The
same is not true for security guards (including TSA types), however.

The main problem with both security guards and LEOs is that these
professions tend to strongly attract control freaks, which is exactly
the type of personality that should be excluded from this type of
work. The people who are the best qualified often never bother to
apply.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Kev]

Jay Beckman wrote:
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The armed forces have publicly demonstrated their disregard for human
> > life, even their own.
>
> There has never been a military in the entire history of this planet which
> has had more destructive power and shown more of a desire to NOT use it than
> the military forces of the United States.

Good point. Still, to be fair to Larry, but not to put words in his
mouth, I think he just meant that people in power have demonstrated
their disregard for our military. Certainly our own military leaders
do what they can to avoid unnecessary warfare or experiments. It's
usually the civilian leaders who have less regard for (knowledge of?)
the consequences.

Regards, Kev

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:36:24 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote in >:

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:41:35 GMT, john smith > wrote in
>> >:
>>
>>>Transportation Security
>>>Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
>>>distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.
>>>
>>>If the pies were considered too dangerous to bring aboard airline
>>>flights, how could it have been safe to distribute the pies to our armed
>>>forces?
>>
>> The armed forces have publicly demonstrated their disregard for human
>> life, even there own.
>
>Larry,
>
>This is one of the most crass, ignorant and unbelieveably stupid comments I
>think I've ever read here.

You left out the adjective 'truthful.'

Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
his own life and those whom he intends to kill?

>This even surpasses our little buddy Mx.

Not that is a low blow. :-)

>There has never been a military in the entire history of this planet which
>has had more destructive power and shown more of a desire to NOT use it than
>the military forces of the United States.

That may or may not be true, but it has nothing to do with what I
stated.

>*PLONK*

I suppose that means that you prefer to stick your head in the ground
rather than discuss the topic.

>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL
>Chandler, AZ
>

[ktbr]

Larry Dighera wrote:

>
>>*PLONK*
>
>
> I suppose that means that you prefer to stick your head in the ground
> rather than discuss the topic.
>

Jay is right, you are off the deep end.

[Kev]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?

No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of. They're
just ordinary people, and no, they have no desire to kill anyone, or to
die themselves, any more than someone who gets a driver's license
demonstrates such thoughts.

Those who enlist demonstrate their willingness to suffer hardship in
return for the greater good. This could be a desire to do something
good for themselves, their country, and/or the world in general.

Kev

[Steve Foley]

"Kev" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Larry Dighera wrote:
>> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
>> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
>
> No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
> has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of.

But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:wxGdh.1267$4p2.476@trndny07...
> "Kev" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>>
>> Larry Dighera wrote:
>>> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
>>> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
>>
>> No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
>> has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of.
>
> But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!
>
>
>

Damn now I need a new keyboard.

[Mxsmanic]

Kev writes:

> ... I think he just meant that people in power have demonstrated
> their disregard for our military.

Particularly at the very top.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Kev writes:

> No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
> has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of. They're
> just ordinary people, and no, they have no desire to kill anyone, or to
> die themselves, any more than someone who gets a driver's license
> demonstrates such thoughts.

Different people enlist for different reasons. Some of them do indeed
have a desire to kill, but certainly not all.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[John Clonts]

Steve Foley wrote:
> "Kev" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> >
> > Larry Dighera wrote:
> >> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> >> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
> >
> > No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
> > has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of.
>
> But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!

Winner, funniest post of the month award!!!! Kudos!

[RomeoMike]

Probably not. These are young kids who enlist for a variety of reasons
other than out of disregard for life. Most of them have no better place
to be. Being young, they don't even think of dying or killing when they
enlist. If they do think about it later they figure it won't happen to
them. Isn't that a typical attitude for teenagers? Plus they can hope
that they are not assigned to combat units. Plus they are naive about
how bad it really can be when you get shot. etc.

Larry Dighera wrote:

>
> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?

[Kev]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Different people enlist for different reasons. Some of them do indeed
> have a desire to kill, but certainly not all.

Well, I was in for three years plus some weird active duty callups
after that, and I never met anyone who had a desire to kill. However,
I did meet a guy training to be a SEAL who said he loved blowing things
up. His enthusiasm worried me a bit.

:-)

Kev

[Kev]

Steve Foley wrote:
>
> But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!

HA !!!

What a stupid statement !!! Everyone knows civilians can't learn to
fire a gun in simulation !!! Only real life drill instructors can
teach you how to pull a trigger !!!

You must be a troll, and I'm putting you on a list. Yeah, that's
right. You heard me. And your mother too... because she once said
something nice about you.

gd&r, kev

[CRaSH]

RomeoMike wrote:
> Probably not. These are young kids who enlist for a variety of reasons
> other than out of disregard for life. Most of them have no better
> place to be. Being young, they don't even think of dying or killing
> when they enlist. If they do think about it later they figure it
> won't happen to them. Isn't that a typical attitude for teenagers?
> Plus they can hope that they are not assigned to combat units. Plus
> they are naive about how bad it really can be when you get shot. etc.
>

You hit the nail on the head (too bad it wasn't some other head, but I
digress:)!!! I for one enlisted because in flatlands Nebraska in the late
50's there wasn't much to offer a high school dropout (or dropin!). Thanks
to the US Navy I ended up with an excellent start for a lifelong career in
electronics, saw much of the world, was aboard the USS Kearsarge when we
picked up astronauts Shirra & Cooper in the south Pacific (62/63), luckily
exited just before Viet Nam totally went nuts, and had vets benefits for
college and PPL. Didn't get shot at (at hit!) until being mugged in Kansas
City 10 years later...........

Cheers'n Beers... [_])
Don

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Different people enlist for different reasons. Some of them do indeed
> have a desire to kill, but certainly not all.

Some who DON't enlist have a desire to kill....
But it is harder to detect them in civilianhood and weed them out.

In a room full of guys with guns, who have to depend on each other, I
can't imagine much that would be scarier than someone who sits alone
mumbling "Kill, kill, kill".

[Mxsmanic]

Kev writes:

> Well, I was in for three years plus some weird active duty callups
> after that, and I never met anyone who had a desire to kill.

Unfortunately, they exist.

> However, I did meet a guy training to be a SEAL who said he loved
> blowing things up. His enthusiasm worried me a bit.

There are worse than that.

If someone has an intense desire to shoot people, wouldn't the
military be a logical choice of career? There aren't too many
competing options.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?


Well, that depends. Someone volunteering for camp guard duty in the
Nazi military might fit that description. And I suppose that in our
own history, one could find some times when it might at least be
tantalizingly close.

But in general, no.
Military members train hard to stay alive, protect each other, and at
least in some cases accomplish their mission with as little loss of
life as possible--including the lives of their opponents.

I'd say more, but there are other newsgroups that have the
political/war discussions way off topic. I'd just as soon not see this
one go there as well.

So, anyone want to ask me about my flight to Texas?

[LWG]

OMG. Unbelievable.

>> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
>> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> >This is one of the most crass, ignorant and unbelieveably stupid comments I
> >think I've ever read here.
>
> You left out the adjective 'truthful.'
>
> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?

Or it shows a high regards for others, even to be willling to
make the ultimate sacrfice to protect the life and freedom
of others.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:18:08 -0500, Bob Noel
> wrote in
>:

>
>> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
>> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
>
>Or it shows a high regards for others, even to be willling to
>make the ultimate sacrfice to protect the life and freedom
>of others.

Those two notions are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Kev]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> If someone has an intense desire to shoot people, wouldn't the
> military be a logical choice of career? There aren't too many
> competing options.

Well, first off, I don't think it's a problem, since I don't meet that
many people with an intense desire to kill. Do you? :)

Secondly, the military is not the best choice for a killer. Remember,
support personnel are (or at least, used to be) 90% of the force. So
you only have about a 10% chance of being in a military specialty that
spends much time shooting. And, excepting recent events, wars are
rare.

The best career for a killer? As a criminal, of course. That's how
such people end up in real life.

Kev

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> >> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
> >> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
> >
> >Or it shows a high regards for others, even to be willling to
> >make the ultimate sacrfice to protect the life and freedom
> >of others.
>
> Those two notions are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

But not as common as you imply.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Steve Foley]

> wrote in message
oups.com...

> In a room full of guys with guns, who have to depend on each other, I
> can't imagine much that would be scarier than someone who sits alone
> mumbling "Kill, kill, kill".

But they wouldn't take him cuz he's a litterbug :)

[Jay Beckman]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:ZlTdh.7180$bW2.4093@trndny04...
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>> In a room full of guys with guns, who have to depend on each other, I
>> can't imagine much that would be scarier than someone who sits alone
>> mumbling "Kill, kill, kill".
>
> But they wouldn't take him cuz he's a litterbug :)

Just stay away from the Group W bench and you'll be fine...

:O)

Jay B

[Steve Foley]

Here ya go...

http://worcester.craigslist.org/zip/245016056.html



"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve Foley" > wrote in message
> news:wxGdh.1267$4p2.476@trndny07...
>> "Kev" > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>>>
>>> Larry Dighera wrote:
>>>> Does not one who enlists in the military demonstrate his disregard for
>>>> his own life and those whom he intends to kill?
>>>
>>> No. That's the perspective of a civilian who's never served, and thus
>>> has no idea who the (U.S.) military is really composed of.
>>
>> But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>
> Damn now I need a new keyboard.
>

[Skylune]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:41:35 GMT, john smith > wrote in
> >:
>
> >Transportation Security
> >Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
> >distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.
> >
> >If the pies were considered too dangerous to bring aboard airline
> >flights, how could it have been safe to distribute the pies to our armed
> >forces?
>
> The armed forces have publicly demonstrated their disregard for human
> life, even there own.
>


WHA HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!! A riot.

[[email protected]]

Jay Beckman wrote:

>
> Just stay away from the Group W bench and you'll be fine...
>
> :O)
>
> Jay B

Jay, either I don't get that, or you made a political comment. ;<)

Maybe it had something to do with me flying to Texas?

[Kev]

wrote:
> Jay Beckman wrote:
> > Just stay away from the Group W bench and you'll be fine...
>
> Jay, either I don't get that, or you made a political comment. ;<)
> Maybe it had something to do with me flying to Texas?

Ah youth ;-) Viet Nam era protest song. Look halfway down the
lyrics for Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant" to the section about the
Draft and the Group W bench:

http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml

Also read its history at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant

At one time, most of us had all the lyrics memorized...
Best, Kev

[[email protected]]

Kev wrote:

> Ah youth ;-) Viet Nam era protest song. Look halfway down the
> lyrics for Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant" to the section about the
> Draft and the Group W bench:
>
> http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml
>
> Also read its history at:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant
>
> At one time, most of us had all the lyrics memorized...
> Best, Kev

Ah, youth, my foot. I was in the military during that shindig (no
action, just doin' my time..)
I just didn't remember all the words, though of course I DO remember
the song.

[Kev]

wrote:
> Kev wrote:
>
> > Ah youth ;-) Viet Nam era protest song. [blah blah]
>
> Ah, youth, my foot. I was in the military during that shindig (no
> [now remembers the song]

Sorry. Change that to "Ah, old age"...

;-)

[Montblack]

("Kev" wrote)
> Also read its history at:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant
>
> At one time, most of us had all the lyrics memorized...


<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_7C0QGkiVo>
The song at YouTube - Thank you, Arlo.

<http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1396279221>
The song at My Space - Thank you, Arlo.

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5028273>
NPR interview with Arlo Guthrie <Listen>

<http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1397291583>
Motorcycle Song - one I've always liked :-)


Mont
Black sold Arlo Guthrie a pair of County Seat jeans when he was in Mpls for
a concert, back in '81/'82. She said he was a great guy - very nice.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve Foley" > wrote in message
> news:ZlTdh.7180$bW2.4093@trndny04...
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>> In a room full of guys with guns, who have to depend on each other, I
>>> can't imagine much that would be scarier than someone who sits alone
>>> mumbling "Kill, kill, kill".
>>
>> But they wouldn't take him cuz he's a litterbug :)
>
> Just stay away from the Group W bench and you'll be fine...
>
> :O)
You're our boy!!

[Bill Michaelson]

Seems the military is finally getting more of the pie.

john smith wrote:
>
> During the Thanksgiving weekend travel rush, airline passengers were
> forbidden to carry pies in their hand luggage. Transportation Security
> Administration officers confiscated the pies from passengers and
> distributed them to troops traveling during the holiday weekend.

[Judah]

"Kev" > wrote in news:1165446439.197794.257260
@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

>
> Steve Foley wrote:
>>
>> But I just installed 'Call to Duty 3'. It's just like the real thing!!!!
>
> HA !!!
>
> What a stupid statement !!! Everyone knows civilians can't learn to
> fire a gun in simulation !!! Only real life drill instructors can
> teach you how to pull a trigger !!!
>
> You must be a troll, and I'm putting you on a list. Yeah, that's
> right. You heard me. And your mother too... because she once said
> something nice about you.

Nonono. You missed the point entirely.

Anyone can learn to fire a gun using "Call to Duty" if they have the proper
controller.

However, there are real-life sensations, such as intense fear for one's
life, bugs stinging your nose when you are hiding in the bushes 6 inches
from the enemy who is hunting for your, and the realization that if you
actually do fire your gun you are more likely to give away your position
and be "lit up" by the other 7 enemies who are looking for you too.

These sensations cannot be accurately duplicated in a computer game.

Perhaps they are simulated better in a full-motion simulator, such as
Paintball.

[Judah]

Just because the pie filling could be explosive doesn't mean it's harmful to
ingest.

It is only harmful on airplanes. Most especially if the ingester attempts to
cover her scent with a match.

john smith > wrote in news:3pCdh.3552$Ye5.1611
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:

> The following Letter to the Editor appeared in the Sunday, December 3,
> 2006 COLUMBUS DISPATCH. It relates to procedures at the Port Columbus
> International Airport in Columbus Ohio (KCMH)
>
> Agency doesn’t make air travelers feel safer
<snip>

[Kev]

Judah wrote:
> Nonono. You missed the point entirely.
>
> Anyone can learn to fire a gun using "Call to Duty" if they have the proper
> controller.
>
> However, there are real-life sensations, such as intense fear for one's
> life, bugs stinging your nose when you are hiding in the bushes [..]
> These sensations cannot be accurately duplicated in a computer game.

But those sensations can't be accurately duplicated in any kind of
training, sim or not :) They used to fire live rounds over your head
in training, but you knew that was fake. Then they used those laser
harnesses, but that's even faker. The only way you got the real-life
sensation is when someone _really_ was trying to kill you.

Now, I'd have to agree that fear of death is one training aspect of
flying that is hard to duplicate in a sim. But perhaps if an
electrical shock was attached to the AOA value, you'd get better
training than even the death factor ;-) After all, fear alone doesn't
make you a better pilot. Learning to avoid deadly situations does.

Cheers, Kev

[Mxsmanic]

Kev writes:

> Now, I'd have to agree that fear of death is one training aspect of
> flying that is hard to duplicate in a sim. But perhaps if an
> electrical shock was attached to the AOA value, you'd get better
> training than even the death factor ;-) After all, fear alone doesn't
> make you a better pilot. Learning to avoid deadly situations does.

Being terrified can interfere with reasoning. And by the time a
person is that scared, he's already in serious trouble. I'm sure that
many accident pilots are terrified in the final few seconds before
they hit the ground, but that doesn't make them any more able to save
themselves, as the terror occurs too late and could easily make them
irrational, anyway.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[[email protected]]

Kev wrote:
> wrote:
> > Kev wrote:
> >
> > > Ah youth ;-) Viet Nam era protest song. [blah blah]
> >
> > Ah, youth, my foot. I was in the military during that shindig (no
> > [now remembers the song]
>
> Sorry. Change that to "Ah, old age"...
>
> ;-)

Hee. I prefer "Ah youth". At least, that's how I'm told I act. Which
I NOW take as a compliment, though it's not usually meant that way. If
I remember correctly......