HUD view of a near-miss

[[email protected]]

Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>

[Darkwing]

> wrote in message
...
> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> Scott Wilson
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.

------------------------------------
DW

[[email protected]]

Darkwing wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> > Scott Wilson
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
>
> That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
> ------------------------------------
> DW

I think it's scary cuz the pilot(NICE HUD, btw) didn't know he was
there....didn't look that close. Maybe 100 feet....

[Robert M. Gary]

wrote:
> Darkwing wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> > > Scott Wilson
> > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
> >
> >
> > That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> > DW
>
> I think it's scary cuz the pilot(NICE HUD, btw) didn't know he was
> there....didn't look that close. Maybe 100 feet....

The circle in the middle of the HUD calculates where you will end up at
current speed, pitch etc. On final the circle was just below the runway
but the pilot knew it would rise slightly during the flare. There
probably wasn't much doubt. Compare that to a C-172 where you are only
somewhat sure where the plane will end up.

-Robert

[Kyle Boatright]

> wrote in message
...
> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> Scott Wilson
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>

What was the other airplane? Viking? Comanche? Arrow?

It would be interesting to know if the guy in the spam can had any idea of
how close he came to having a very bad day.

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-12-12, Kyle Boatright > wrote:
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> What was the other airplane? Viking? Comanche? Arrow?

I thought Comanche too (as a Comanche owner!) but it would be an uncommon
paintjob.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[John[_8_]]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:58:13 GMT, wrote:

>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.

Graphic illustration of the dangers of low-level navigation.
Unfortunately, though these routes are published, most civil pilots
either are not aware of them or just ignore them.

Back in the 70's, My student and I nearly collided with a helo over
the gulf somewhere east of Victora TX in a TA-4J. We were at 500' MSL
on a published, highly used low-level navigation training route. When
I called FSS about the near-miss, they told me that the helos flying
to the rigs seldom filed flight plans and never talked to them. They
also told me that they nearly always flew at 500-1000' - which was
within the published altitudes for that route!

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

wrote:

> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> Scott Wilson
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>

We recently had the safety officer from Sheppard AFB come to our EAA
meeting talking about the IR/VR low level routes and all the SUA around
the airbase. Then he showed several videos (including this clip). Scary
and one clip was a mid-air. I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North
Central Texas at 2500' ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went
UNDER me. That was interesting.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Walt]

I used to fly gliders out of Kelly Air Park, about halfway between
Colorado Springs and Denver. Good lift, up around 14,000', and it
wasn't unusual to see a C-130 or a B737 go by. Not a near miss, but
close enough to catch your attention.

When I got out of Air Force flight training I chose a slot to fly a
C-130 out of Langley AFB. The Powers That Be changed it to a C-121 out
of Korat, then an AC-119K out of Phan Rang.

The rest, as they say, is history. :>)

--Walt


Ross Richardson wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> > Scott Wilson
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> We recently had the safety officer from Sheppard AFB come to our EAA
> meeting talking about the IR/VR low level routes and all the SUA around
> the airbase. Then he showed several videos (including this clip). Scary
> and one clip was a mid-air. I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North
> Central Texas at 2500' ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went
> UNDER me. That was interesting.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> KSWI

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/12/06 06:03, Ross Richardson wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>> Scott Wilson
>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> We recently had the safety officer from Sheppard AFB come to our EAA
> meeting talking about the IR/VR low level routes and all the SUA around
> the airbase. Then he showed several videos (including this clip). Scary
> and one clip was a mid-air. I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North
> Central Texas at 2500' ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went
> UNDER me. That was interesting.
>

Now *that* I would like to see a clip of! Wow! Must have been a fantastic
view.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[John Weiss]

"Ross Richardson" > wrote...
>
> I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North Central Texas at 2500'
> ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went UNDER me. That was
> interesting.

I was coasting in (south TX, late 70s) on a published low-level route where
it crossed another one. I was in an A-4 at 500' or so, and a B-52 passed
under me.

There also used to be a segment of another route in NV (early 90s) where 2
routes ran in opposite directions. They were supposed to be deconflicted by
the controlling agency, but it didn't always work. I was in an A-6 at 200'
and passed under 1 A-10 going the other way (really -- they weren't JUST
slow!) and abeam his wingman.

[xyzzy]

Ross Richardson wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> > Scott Wilson
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> We recently had the safety officer from Sheppard AFB come to our EAA
> meeting talking about the IR/VR low level routes and all the SUA around
> the airbase. Then he showed several videos (including this clip). Scary
> and one clip was a mid-air. I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North
> Central Texas at 2500' ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went
> UNDER me. That was interesting.

While climbing out of KSOP, as I passed through about 1500 feet a
flight of three A-10's went under me -- I was about 5 miles outside the
Ft. Bragg restricted area at the time. I thought it was kinda
interesting that they didn't make any radio calls as they basically
blew through the traffic pattern of the airport. When I got on the
radio to warn other pilots they were coming through, THEN they made
radio calls.

[Frank Stutzman]

In rec.aviation.owning John Weiss > wrote:

> I was coasting in (south TX, late 70s) on a published low-level route where
> it crossed another one. I was in an A-4 at 500' or so, and a B-52 passed
> under me.

Since we are telling war stories here...

A friend of mine flew A-6s in several Red Flag exercises. He has several such near
miss stories. I think the best was when he was running along at about 500' agl
when he had a F-16 (F-15?) overtake him from below and then immediately pull up in
an immelmann turn in front of him.

During the de-briefing, the other pilot was asked about this maneuver and why he
did it. Basically, he was focused on what he was doing and never saw the A-6,
before, during, or after his turn.


--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Mark]

> scared us with:
> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> Scott Wilson
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>

I can't find anything about this in the NTSB database.
Would they not track this sort of incident?

[Dan[_2_]]

Mark wrote:
> > scared us with:
>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>> Scott Wilson
>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> I can't find anything about this in the NTSB database.
> Would they not track this sort of incident?
>
>
Not if no one filed an incident report.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Darkwing]

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
> > scared us with:
>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>> Scott Wilson
>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
> I can't find anything about this in the NTSB database.
> Would they not track this sort of incident?
>
>

What about a NASA form?

----------------------------------
DW

[[email protected]]

Dan wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> > > scared us with:
> >> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
> >> Scott Wilson
> >> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
> >
> > I can't find anything about this in the NTSB database.
> > Would they not track this sort of incident?
> >
> >
> Not if no one filed an incident report.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Why? Happens all the time and neither A/C was doing anything wrong.
Civilians tend to 'report' way more often than the military, IMO. I got
'reported' when in VX-4, doing a missilex profile practice in the MOAs
east of Mugu(Owens Valley)...some civilian(Cessna 172) was wandering
around, legally, and I flew close to her to let her know we were there
and 'maybe' it would be a good idea if she did sightseeing somewhere
else. I didn't even get that close to her BUT I was pointing at her,
passed her 180 degrees out...kinda fast, wings were back.....she called
the FAA..they splained the situation.

[Mike Kanze]

While training routes have obvious dangers, interlopers sometimes also breeze through active Restricted Areas.

During VA-95's workups prior to its 1973 cruise, Pizza Pentimonti and I were out laying MK-76s into the evil commie bus hulks infesting the Boardman target area. During the run-in for our third or fourth pass, some bozo in a 172 comes toodling north right across our run-in line about 500' below us. We saw him and pulled up just as he passed under our big A-6 nose. After assessing the state of our laundry, we called the incident in to Seattle Center, who then painted him in to Yakima.

Turned out this was not the first time this twit had messed up. We learned later that the Administrator pulled the guy's ticket.

--
Mike Kanze

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

- Benjamin Franklin

"John" > wrote in message ...
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:58:13 GMT, wrote:

>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.

Graphic illustration of the dangers of low-level navigation.
Unfortunately, though these routes are published, most civil pilots
either are not aware of them or just ignore them.

Back in the 70's, My student and I nearly collided with a helo over
the gulf somewhere east of Victora TX in a TA-4J. We were at 500' MSL
on a published, highly used low-level navigation training route. When
I called FSS about the near-miss, they told me that the helos flying
to the rigs seldom filed flight plans and never talked to them. They
also told me that they nearly always flew at 500-1000' - which was
within the published altitudes for that route!

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B

[Byron Myers]

xyzzy wrote:

> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>Scott Wilson
>>>http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>
>>We recently had the safety officer from Sheppard AFB come to our EAA
>>meeting talking about the IR/VR low level routes and all the SUA around
>>the airbase. Then he showed several videos (including this clip). Scary
>>and one clip was a mid-air. I was once flying over Lake Texoma in North
>>Central Texas at 2500' ( ground elevation is ~ 750') and 3 C-130s went
>>UNDER me. That was interesting.
>
>
> While climbing out of KSOP, as I passed through about 1500 feet a
> flight of three A-10's went under me -- I was about 5 miles outside the
> Ft. Bragg restricted area at the time. I thought it was kinda
> interesting that they didn't make any radio calls as they basically
> blew through the traffic pattern of the airport. When I got on the
> radio to warn other pilots they were coming through, THEN they made
> radio calls.
>

I noticed your user name and had to reply. I bet there are not too
many people know its origin.
Are you showing your age? (plugh)

Byron

[Roger[_4_]]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
<theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>> Scott Wilson
>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>
>
>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.

It can get closer.
Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
to my left (West).
The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
would have been just about as bad.

>
>------------------------------------
>DW
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger > wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"

> wrote in message
...
>>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>> Scott Wilson
>>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>
>>
>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.

Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an article
about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The nosegear of
the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed safely.
the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the nosewheel
tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal airplanes
without aluminum scraps flying....

Ron Wanttaja

[Darkwing]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>> Scott Wilson
>>>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>>
>>>
>>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
> Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an
> article
> about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The
> nosegear of
> the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed
> safely.
> the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the
> nosewheel
> tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal
> airplanes
> without aluminum scraps flying....
>
> Ron Wanttaja

I've had a couple close calls in my day. They suck.

---------------------------
DW

[Peter Dohm]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a
T-38C.
> >>> Scott Wilson
> >>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
> >>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
> >>
> >>
> >>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
> Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an
article
> about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The
nosegear of
> the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed
safely.
> the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the
nosewheel
> tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal
airplanes
> without aluminum scraps flying....
>
> Ron Wanttaja

I have read somewhere that most midair collisions are "fender benders" and
that the aircraft land safely and go on to fly again. We mostly hear of the
most spectacular accidents--just as we do with cars and trucks.

Peter

[Newps]

Peter Dohm wrote:


>
> I have read somewhere that most midair collisions are "fender benders" and
> that the aircraft land safely and go on to fly again. We mostly hear of the
> most spectacular accidents--just as we do with cars and trucks.

When I was at GFK, home of UND, I was working the day one Piper Cadets
prop sawed the stabilator of another in mid air. There were about 25 or
so slices, approax 3 inches long the full length of the stab. Neither
pilot reported a collision and both dummied up after landing and talking
to their parents/lawyers. It wasn't until the next set of students came
out to preflight their planes that the tail damage was discovered. They
then realized it was a midair because of how close together the slices
were. A little more investigation found the other aircraft on the ramp
with the paint from the stab on its prop.

[John Weiss]

"Frank Stutzman" > wrote...
>
> A friend of mine flew A-6s in several Red Flag exercises. He has several
> such near
> miss stories. I think the best was when he was running along at about
> 500' agl
> when he had a F-16 (F-15?) overtake him from below and then immediately
> pull up in
> an immelmann turn in front of him.
>
> During the de-briefing, the other pilot was asked about this maneuver and
> why he
> did it. Basically, he was focused on what he was doing and never saw the
> A-6,
> before, during, or after his turn.

Fat chance! It sounds like a well-known "maneuver" known as "thumping"!

Also, I don't think I've ever seen anyone fly lower in exercises like that
than the Brits flying Buccaneers for the Oman AF (mid 80s). They would
regularly fly under our A-6s that were ingressing at 200' or less...

[Alan Dicey]

John Weiss wrote:
> "Frank Stutzman" > wrote...
>> A friend of mine flew A-6s in several Red Flag exercises. He has several
>> such near
>> miss stories. I think the best was when he was running along at about
>> 500' agl
>> when he had a F-16 (F-15?) overtake him from below and then immediately
>> pull up in
>> an immelmann turn in front of him.
>>
>> During the de-briefing, the other pilot was asked about this maneuver and
>> why he
>> did it. Basically, he was focused on what he was doing and never saw the
>> A-6,
>> before, during, or after his turn.
>
> Fat chance! It sounds like a well-known "maneuver" known as "thumping"!
>
> Also, I don't think I've ever seen anyone fly lower in exercises like that
> than the Brits flying Buccaneers for the Oman AF (mid 80s). They would
> regularly fly under our A-6s that were ingressing at 200' or less...
>
>

I'm sorry, I thought you knew . . .
50 feet is low level. Anything higher is
cruising-along-on-the-highway-on-a-Sunday-afternoon, aka asking to see
if Mr. FlAK is at home :-(

[Roger[_4_]]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:55:37 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>> Scott Wilson
>>>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>>
>>>
>>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
>Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an article
>about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The nosegear of
>the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed safely.
>the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the nosewheel
>tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal airplanes
>without aluminum scraps flying....

Now that *is*close*! <:-)) it also fits the proper definition of a
Near Miss in that he *nearly* missed the other plane. <:-))
>
>Ron Wanttaja
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:55:37 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>> Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>> Scott Wilson
>>>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>>
>>>
>>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
>Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an article
>about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The nosegear of
>the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed safely.
>the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the nosewheel
>tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal airplanes
>without aluminum scraps flying....

Likewise back in the 60's there was a "Flying Farmers" fly-in at
Midland's Barstow airport (3BS). The airport was basically covered
with airplanes.

I witnessed two planes, the classic landing one on top of the other. I
no longer remember the top one but the bottom was a Piper Cub. The
top plane's mains rolled right over the Cub's wings almost from
trailing edge to leading edge forcing the Cub down. Of course at this
time the pilot on top realized something was wrong and pulled up. The
Cub nosed down and rolled 90 degrees, but recovered almost
immediately. His right wing tip was only inches off the ground with
people scattering to get out of the way.

No injuries and no damage except to maybe a few pair of shorts.
Of course this doesn't count as both were tube and fabric rather than
metal. <:-))

BTW the Beech factory had a Debonair there as a demonstration plane. I
took one look and said, "I'm going to have one of those some day!".
Little did I know it'd be that same airplane about 37 years later.

>
>Ron Wanttaja
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Matt Whiting]

Roger wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
> <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>Scott Wilson
>>>http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>
>>
>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>
>
> It can get closer.
> Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
> Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
> about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
> feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
> to my left (West).
> The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
> over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
> us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
> He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
> fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
> would have been just about as bad.

How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?

Matt

[Matt Barrow]

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> Likewise back in the 60's there was a "Flying Farmers" fly-in at
> Midland's Barstow airport (3BS). The airport was basically covered
> with airplanes.
>
> I witnessed two planes, the classic landing one on top of the other. I
> no longer remember the top one but the bottom was a Piper Cub. The
> top plane's mains rolled right over the Cub's wings almost from
> trailing edge to leading edge forcing the Cub down. Of course at this
> time the pilot on top realized something was wrong and pulled up. The
> Cub nosed down and rolled 90 degrees, but recovered almost
> immediately. His right wing tip was only inches off the ground with
> people scattering to get out of the way.
>
> No injuries and no damage except to maybe a few pair of shorts.

The other definition of an "accident".

> Of course this doesn't count as both were tube and fabric rather than
> metal. <:-))
>
> BTW the Beech factory had a Debonair there as a demonstration plane. I
> took one look and said, "I'm going to have one of those some day!".
> Little did I know it'd be that same airplane about 37 years later.

"It's deja vu all over again" - Yogi Berra

[Roger[_4_]]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>> <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>>Scott Wilson
>>>>http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>>
>>>
>>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>>
>>
>> It can get closer.
>> Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
>> Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
>> about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
>> feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
>> to my left (West).
>> The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
>> over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
>> us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
>> He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
>> fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
>> would have been just about as bad.
>
>How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?

When you happen to be looking at the spot out the window and the top
of the stab is about a foot below your butt most any one can guess
that close. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 could come within a few
inches of getting it right. It's like a flash photo. You just see the
image.

Even if I missed it by 100 % he'd only be two feet below , or scraping
paint..


>
>Matt
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Matt Whiting]

Roger wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Roger wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
>>><theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
>>>>>Scott Wilson
>>>>>http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
>>>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.
>>>
>>>
>>>It can get closer.
>>>Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
>>>Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
>>>about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
>>>feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
>>>to my left (West).
>>>The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
>>>over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
>>>us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
>>>He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
>>>fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
>>>would have been just about as bad.
>>
>>How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?
>
>
> When you happen to be looking at the spot out the window and the top
> of the stab is about a foot below your butt most any one can guess
> that close. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 could come within a few
> inches of getting it right. It's like a flash photo. You just see the
> image.
>
> Even if I missed it by 100 % he'd only be two feet below , or scraping
> paint..

Most people couldn't estimate a foot if the airplanes were stationary
with one held above the other by a crane. You definitely can't estimate
distance with this precision at the closing speed of two aircraft,
unless they are flying in formation. :-)

Matt

[John[_8_]]

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:01:22 -0800, "Mike Kanze"
> wrote:

>During the run-in for our third or fourth pass, some bozo in a 172 comes toodling north right across our run-in line about 500' below us. We saw him and pulled up just as he passed under our big A-6 nose.

Similar incident: I had a student doing strafing runs at Yankee Target
west of NAS Chase. We had just rolled in and was about 2 seconds away
from trigger time when this Cessna 206 flew right through our sights
at an estimated 100' AGL. I called "abort" and we pulled off target.
Lead rolled in on him to get his number but he had none!

Another opportunity lost - dude was probably running drugs (he was
headed northeast) and would have served him right if he had been a few
seconds later and gotten a cockpit full of inert 20mm!!!!!!!!

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B