Happy Winter Solstice Day!

[N2310D]

Winter is finally, officially here. I was going to celebrate with an
hour or so of just tooling up and down the Owens Valley with a vague idea of
shooting a couple landings at Mammoth Airport (KMMH) provided the runway was
clear. Alas, time and a deflated nose gear strut permits not.
Yesterday morning's low in the NW corner of California's share of the
Great Mojave Desert was 22°F with a daytime high of 44. That was our first
excursion into the 20s. This morning's low was a bit warmer at 25. My
condolences to the folks in Denver and eastward. Our days have been clear
and a million for at least one week.
Come February, our Skyhawk is expected to rise to the top of the hangar
waiting list. Maybe then my fingers won't ache so much doing the preflight.
Tomorrow... Yeah, tomorrow....

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15 minutes
about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
amazing display of stupidity.

They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter, including
the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different from
the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! Imagine that! But the
weather bunny had to point out each time not just once, but THREE times
starting on the east cost and working to the west coast.

Truly informative and educational. I can hardly wait for them to start
tracking Santa.

Happy Winter. Freezing rain here, no snow.

Jim

[Peter Duniho]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15
> minutes
> about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
> amazing display of stupidity.
>
> They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter,
> including
> the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different from
> the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! [...]

Of course, the dumbest thing about that is that there's only ONE actual time
at which winter starts. This year, it's at 12:22am on Dec 22nd, UTC.

In other words, celebrating the "start of winter" in each time zone, one
hour apart is incorrect, as is celebrating it at all yet. The start of
winter hasn't happened yet. As I write this post, it's still nearly six
hours away.

Pete

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15
>> minutes
>> about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
>> amazing display of stupidity.
>>
>> They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter,
>> including
>> the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different from
>> the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! [...]
>
> Of course, the dumbest thing about that is that there's only ONE actual
> time at which winter starts. This year, it's at 12:22am on Dec 22nd, UTC.
>
> In other words, celebrating the "start of winter" in each time zone, one
> hour apart is incorrect, as is celebrating it at all yet. The start of
> winter hasn't happened yet. As I write this post, it's still nearly six
> hours away.
>
> Pete
>

But celebrating it at 0022 UTC you have to celebrate it a UTC -4,-5,-6...

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

That's what they were attempting to pointing out... but I don't think the
weather bunny had a clue as to what the tele-prompter was telling her. The
map showed the times as being one hour a part for each time zone which
equaled being the same moment in time everywhere. It had her totally
flustered and confused.
Jim

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15
> >> minutes
> >> about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
> >> amazing display of stupidity.
> >>
> >> They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter,
> >> including
> >> the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different
from
> >> the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! [...]
> >
> > Of course, the dumbest thing about that is that there's only ONE actual
> > time at which winter starts. This year, it's at 12:22am on Dec 22nd,
UTC.
> >
> > In other words, celebrating the "start of winter" in each time zone, one
> > hour apart is incorrect, as is celebrating it at all yet. The start of
> > winter hasn't happened yet. As I write this post, it's still nearly six
> > hours away.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>
> But celebrating it at 0022 UTC you have to celebrate it a UTC -4,-5,-6...
>
>

[Peter Dohm]

> That's what they were attempting to pointing out... but I don't think the
> weather bunny had a clue as to what the tele-prompter was telling her.
The
> map showed the times as being one hour a part for each time zone which
> equaled being the same moment in time everywhere. It had her totally
> flustered and confused.
> Jim
>
That might be why professional entertainers rehearse.... ;-)
Peter

[Danny Deger]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15
>> minutes
>> about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
>> amazing display of stupidity.
>>
>> They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter,
>> including
>> the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different from
>> the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! [...]
>
> Of course, the dumbest thing about that is that there's only ONE actual
> time at which winter starts. This year, it's at 12:22am on Dec 22nd, UTC.
>
> In other words, celebrating the "start of winter" in each time zone, one
> hour apart is incorrect, as is celebrating it at all yet. The start of
> winter hasn't happened yet. As I write this post, it's still nearly six
> hours away.
>
> Pete
>

I must admit I am very happy rounding off the start of winter to the nearest
day.

Danny Deger

[RST Engineering]

I was told this by my college German professor, so I cannot vouch for its
accuracy as I don't speak all the languages.

Winter solstice (Dec 21 or 22) is the shortest day of the year. At least it
is in English, German, and Russian.

In French, Spanish, and Italian it is the longest night of the year.



Jim

[Jay Honeck]

> Winter is finally, officially here.

Yep, this is the deepest, darkest night of the year.

In summer, we'd be heading out the door to the hangar, or the
playground, or the beach, for four more hours of "life". Instead,
today we huddle inside around the computer monitor, because it's
already been dark for over two hours (as I write this) -- and the sun
will be just coming up when I head into work tomorrow morning.

But it's not the coldest night of the year, not by far. Thanks to the
heat-sink effect of the earth, that day is almost precisely one month
in the future. Today it's in the upper 30s here in Iowa, with 1/4-mile
pea-soup fog, and 100-foot ceilings. Far from the worst that Mother
Nature can dish out -- but certainly nothing to crow about.

We heard one single-engine plane pass over the airport today -- he made
a couple of half-hearted approaches, and then departed for greener
pastures (and an ILS approach) up in Cedar Rapids. (And even there he
must've been at-or-below minimums...)

Yep, this is the time of year we all dread in summer, and struggle to
get through when it comes. It's as bleak as it gets -- which is, of
course, why they put Christmas smack in the midst of it. Nothing a
little faux merry-making to curse the darkness, and ward off the
demons!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose[_1_]]

> which is, of
> course, why they put Christmas smack in the midst of it.

No, it's why they put Saturnalia in the middle of it. And Saturnalia
may well have been a co-opt of some other holiday. Christmas was put
there in an attempt to drain Saturnalia of its pagan power, and get
people (who would be celebrating anyway) to at least do so in the name
of the latest god to achieve prominance.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Duniho]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
> But celebrating it at 0022 UTC you have to celebrate it a UTC -4,-5,-6...

No. You only celebrate it at 0022 UTC. It's the same time for every single
person on the planet.

[Rick[_1_]]

Danny Deger wrote in message >...
>
>"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
>> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Yesterday the Weather Channel went on and on and on for at least 15
>>> minutes
>>> about when winter would officially begin in EACH time zone! It was an
>>> amazing display of stupidity.
>>>
>>> They had a map showing each time zone's official start of winter,
>>> including
>>> the time down to the second. Yep, each time zone was only different
from
>>> the next by, you guessed it.... EXACTLY one hour! [...]
>>
>> Of course, the dumbest thing about that is that there's only ONE actual
>> time at which winter starts. This year, it's at 12:22am on Dec 22nd,
UTC.
>>
>> In other words, celebrating the "start of winter" in each time zone, one
>> hour apart is incorrect, as is celebrating it at all yet. The start of
>> winter hasn't happened yet. As I write this post, it's still nearly six
>> hours away.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
>I must admit I am very happy rounding off the start of winter to the
nearest
>day.

Heh. The fact that the days will start to get longer means nothing when
you've got another couple months of Upper Midwest Winter ahead. And as far
as it being "Winter" solstice, if you're in Australia or somewhere else
south of the equator...well, I'm just sayin'.

- Rick

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>I was told this by my college German professor, so I cannot vouch for its
>accuracy as I don't speak all the languages.

Can you at least vouch for its making any sense semantically?

> Winter solstice (Dec 21 or 22) is the shortest day of the year. At least
> it is in English, German, and Russian.
>
> In French, Spanish, and Italian it is the longest night of the year.

What does that mean? "in English, German, and Russian". In what
English-language-specific way is the Winter solstice the shortest day of the
year and at the same time *not* also the longest night of the year?

(Ignoring, of course, that the solstice is not a date, but a particular
moment in time...I'll take as granted that people often talk of the specific
date as the solstice even though technically that's not what it is).

Pete

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

> > Winter solstice (Dec 21 or 22) is the shortest day of the year. At least
> > it is in English, German, and Russian.
> >
> > In French, Spanish, and Italian it is the longest night of the year.
>
> What does that mean? "in English, German, and Russian". In what
> English-language-specific way is the Winter solstice the shortest day of the
> year and at the same time *not* also the longest night of the year?

Glass half-full, glass half-empty?

At least that's how I looked at it.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
> ...
>> But celebrating it at 0022 UTC you have to celebrate it a UTC -4,-5,-6...
>
> No. You only celebrate it at 0022 UTC. It's the same time for every
> single person on the planet.
>

Which is exactly what I wrote.

[RST Engineering]

From an engineer's point of view, the glass is WAY over-designed.

{;-)

Jim



"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...


> Glass half-full, glass half-empty?
>
> At least that's how I looked at it.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> Looking for a sig the
> lawyers will hate
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote in message
...
>>> But celebrating it at 0022 UTC you have to celebrate it a
>>> UTC -4,-5,-6...
>>
>> No. You only celebrate it at 0022 UTC. It's the same time for every
>> single person on the planet.
>
> Which is exactly what I wrote.

You wrote (see quoted text above): "you have to celebrate it a
UTC -4,-5,-6..."

That's quite a bit different. Your statement isn't even semantically
meaningful, never mind is it equivalent to what I wrote.

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>> > Winter solstice (Dec 21 or 22) is the shortest day of the year. At
>> > least
>> > it is in English, German, and Russian.
>> >
>> > In French, Spanish, and Italian it is the longest night of the year.
>>
>> What does that mean? "in English, German, and Russian". In what
>> English-language-specific way is the Winter solstice the shortest day of
>> the
>> year and at the same time *not* also the longest night of the year?
>
> Glass half-full, glass half-empty?
>
> At least that's how I looked at it.

That's not the question I'm asking. I understand the difference between
looking at the solstice as the longest day or night versus the shortest
night or day, respectively.

The question is, what is it that Jim claims causes the Winter solstice to be
"the shortest day of the year" in English? It's just as much the longest
night of the year in English as it is the shortest day.

His post implies there's some optimism in English, German, and Russian and
some pessimism in French, Spanish, and Italian, but completely fails to
explain where or how this optimism or pessimism is represented. Personally,
I doubt there's any basis to his claim at all, but since his post isn't even
clear about what his claim is it's kind of hard to say.

Pete

[Peter Dohm]

> From an engineer's point of view, the glass is WAY over-designed.
>
> {;-)
>
> Jim
>
Or simply too large; but either way, a waste of resources.

;-)

Peter

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

> The question is, what is it that Jim claims causes the Winter solstice to be
> "the shortest day of the year" in English? It's just as much the longest
> night of the year in English as it is the shortest day.

so what? it's redundant to say it's the longest night after saying it's the
shortest day.

>
> His post implies there's some optimism in English, German, and Russian and
> some pessimism in French, Spanish, and Italian, but completely fails to
> explain where or how this optimism or pessimism is represented. Personally,
> I doubt there's any basis to his claim at all, but since his post isn't even
> clear about what his claim is it's kind of hard to say.

Shortest day, longest night, doesn't imply anything wrt optimism to me.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Peter Dohm]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Noel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > Winter solstice (Dec 21 or 22) is the shortest day of the year. At
> >> > least
> >> > it is in English, German, and Russian.
> >> >
> >> > In French, Spanish, and Italian it is the longest night of the year.
> >>
> >> What does that mean? "in English, German, and Russian". In what
> >> English-language-specific way is the Winter solstice the shortest day
of
> >> the
> >> year and at the same time *not* also the longest night of the year?
> >
> > Glass half-full, glass half-empty?
> >
> > At least that's how I looked at it.
>
> That's not the question I'm asking. I understand the difference between
> looking at the solstice as the longest day or night versus the shortest
> night or day, respectively.
>
> The question is, what is it that Jim claims causes the Winter solstice to
be
> "the shortest day of the year" in English? It's just as much the longest
> night of the year in English as it is the shortest day.
>
> His post implies there's some optimism in English, German, and Russian and
> some pessimism in French, Spanish, and Italian, but completely fails to
> explain where or how this optimism or pessimism is represented.
Personally,
> I doubt there's any basis to his claim at all, but since his post isn't
even
> clear about what his claim is it's kind of hard to say.
>
> Pete
>
>
For many of us, it's interesting trivia; while for others, just trivia.
For a very few, it could be very usefull; or not.
YMMV

Peter

[Jose[_1_]]

> so what? it's redundant to say it's the longest night after saying it's the
> shortest day.
Is the longest night =before= or =after= the shortest day?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>> The question is, what is it that Jim claims causes the Winter solstice to
>> be
>> "the shortest day of the year" in English? It's just as much the longest
>> night of the year in English as it is the shortest day.
>
> so what? it's redundant to say it's the longest night after saying it's
> the
> shortest day.

Who says I've done so AFTER saying it's the shortest day? What if I say
it's the longest night first?

Okay, you are clearly just not understanding any of this thread. Let me try
a different approach:

I claim that in English, the Winter solstice is the longest night of the
year.

Can you refute that claim?

[Peter Duniho]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
...
> For many of us, it's interesting trivia; while for others, just trivia.
> For a very few, it could be very usefull; or not.
> YMMV

WHAT TRIVIA?

The statement Jim made is meaningless. It's not trivia at all. It's
semantically empty words.

It means NOTHING to say that "in English, the Winter solstice is the
shortest day of the year but in some other language the Winter solstice is
the longest night of the year". In English it is both, and in any other
language it is also both.

There is nothing about the English language that forces one to consider the
Winter solstice as the shortest day of the year rather than the longest
night.

If you think it's trivia, useful or not, then how about explaining WHAT THE
FRIGGIN' STATEMENT MEANS.

Thank you.

[RST Engineering]

You must be the stupidest asshole on the face of the earth. Or perhaps
asexual.

In the first place, I stated that it was my college German professor's
assertion, not mine, but that I found it interesting.

In the second place, you will note that the three languages mentioned
(English, German, and Russian) are somewhat north and would be most
interested in how much daylight was available during winter for heat.

In the third place, you will note that the three languages mentioned
(French, Spanish, and Italian) are both somewhat south AND probably more
interested in what goes on at night than you, you dork.

Jim




>
> The statement Jim made is meaningless. It's not trivia at all. It's
> semantically empty words.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Jose > wrote:

> > so what? it's redundant to say it's the longest night after saying it's the
> > shortest day.
> Is the longest night =before= or =after= the shortest day?

yes.

:-)

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

> Okay, you are clearly just not understanding any of this thread. Let me try
> a different approach:

or, I do understand it, and r e a l l y d o n ' t c a r e.

do you understand?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>> Okay, you are clearly just not understanding any of this thread. Let me
>> try
>> a different approach:
>
> or, I do understand it, and r e a l l y d o n ' t c a r e.

No. You obviously don't have a clue about what my posts are talking about.

I also believe you don't care. That's unfortunately quite typical, for you
and Usenet generally..."I don't understand, so it obviously isn't something
I should care about". But you definitely don't understand.

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> You must be the stupidest asshole on the face of the earth. Or perhaps
> asexual.

You have proven time and again that you hold that title. You have no method
of communication except to write stupid things or call people names.

> In the first place, I stated that it was my college German professor's
> assertion, not mine, but that I found it interesting.

Of course you would. You don't have the slightest idea that the assertion
means *nothing*. It's an empty statement.

> In the second place, you will note that the three languages mentioned
> (English, German, and Russian) are somewhat north and would be most
> interested in how much daylight was available during winter for heat.

But there's nothing about English, German, or Russian that describes the
Winter solstice as the shortest day of the year. The Winter solstice is
just that, in any language: the solstice that occurs in the Winter. Nothing
about any language specifically describes the solstice as EITHER the
shortest day of the year, nor the longest night.

> In the third place, you will note that the three languages mentioned
> (French, Spanish, and Italian) are both somewhat south AND probably more
> interested in what goes on at night than you, you dork.

See above. Ironic that you see a need to resort to name-calling, even as
the names you use appear to apply most appropriately to yourself.

Pete

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

> No. You obviously don't have a clue about what my posts are talking about.
[snip]

cripes, you are particularly grumpy.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> cripes, you are particularly grumpy.

And why shouldn't I be?

All of the responses to my question about what exactly Jim is trying to say
have been met with derision and insults. Not a single person took a moment
to try to actually comprehend my question or to try to address it. Instead,
they took the opportunity to completely ignore my question, pretend that
they in fact understood what Jim was trying to say, and act like I'm an
idiot just for asking a question.

You included. You even went out of your way to point out that you really
don't care. Your replies were obviously simply intended to harass, rather
than to educate. You said as much yourself.

And then you are surprised that I might be grumpy about it? Boy, you ARE
thick.

Frankly, I doubt that even Jim himself knows what he means. What I *do*
know is that he has no mode of communication that involves respect or
empathy. He attempts to cover up his own ignorance with bravado and
abusiveness, preferring to call people names to having any real discourse.
Jim can't put a post longer than a few sentences together without including
at least one curse word or insult, and most of the time his posts average
about one of those per sentence.

Honestly, I don't know what got into me, expecting him to actually take the
opportunity to clarify what it is he was writing. He's much better at
recognizing when he's made a mistake and then insulting someone else to try
to cover it up, than he is at actually communicating with other people.

Basically, my simple question brought out all of the usual Usenet behavior,
the people around here who cannot be bothered to *discuss*, preferring
instead to inflate their own egos at the expense of others and without
contributing a single iota of knowledge or information to the world at
large. Yours and Jim's replies in particular fit that all-too-common
pattern.

I've had a particularly crappy couple of months, since the beginning of
November, and so perhaps I'm a little edgier than usual. But the fact is,
there's plenty to be annoyed at here even for a person who's otherwise on an
even keel. So yeah, am I grumpy about it? You bet.

Pete

[Jay Honeck]

> I've had a particularly crappy couple of months, since the beginning of
> November, and so perhaps I'm a little edgier than usual. But the fact is,
> there's plenty to be annoyed at here even for a person who's otherwise on an
> even keel. So yeah, am I grumpy about it? You bet.

Well, Pete -- try to have a Merry Christmas, despite it all. If it
makes you feel any better, I've had a pretty crappy December myself --
but I'm gonna be merry anyway, dammit, even if it kills me.

And just remember this: Despite all of our verbal sparring over the
last few years, understand that beneath it all is a level of respect
and admiration that cannot be marred, even by the fact that I
occasionally think you're a total jerk, and a complete idiot...

;-)

Happy Holidays, my friend. One of these years, you're gonna have to
drag your sorry butt out here to God's country, and we'll have a beer
or three. Or, perhaps, Oshkosh '07?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> Happy Holidays, my friend. One of these years, you're gonna have to drag
> your sorry butt out here to God's country, and we'll have a beer or three.
> Or, perhaps, Oshkosh '07?


.....and you thought "I" was difficult in the grocery store/liquor store. <g>


Montblack-label
In Minnesota you can't sell booze (or wine) in supermarkets - or food in
liquor stores. The 3.2% alcohol stuff is ok to sell, in grocery stores,
otherwise ...it's off to the liquor store you go. Liquor stores are closed
Sundays and holidays, here. (Car lots are also closed on Sunday, in
Minnesota.)

[Montblack]

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
> I've had a particularly crappy couple of months, since the beginning of
> November, and so perhaps I'm a little edgier than usual. But the fact is,
> there's plenty to be annoyed at here even for a person who's otherwise on
> an even keel. So yeah, am I grumpy about it? You bet.


Peter, I too had an, ...um, ("unspectacular") November.

You're among friends! :-)


Montblack-cloud
Cranky? ......sometimes. (Ok, a little more then sometimes. <g>)
Grumpy? .....seldom.

Detached? ..often. (It's my "happy place")

[john smith]

>
>
>Montblack-cloud
>Cranky? ......sometimes. (Ok, a little more then sometimes. <g>)
>Grumpy? .....seldom.
>
>Detached? ..often. (It's my "happy place")
>
>

I understand Vicadon will do that. :-))

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
>>Detached? ..often. (It's my "happy place")

> I understand Vicadon will do that. :-))


Hey, that hurt!

Aw-shucks, it's Christmas Eve, I can't stay sore at you. <g>


Montblack-bag
http://www.modafinil.com/aviators.html
Well, this is one heck of a ....'study'.

Buy this stock(?). It's the (big) new "lifestyle" drug of the 21st Century.
$ell, sell, sell ...if they lose any patent defenses to the 'generics' :-)