Wax, Teflon, Wx?

[Guy Acheson]

Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
Wx?
I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.

Guy

[bumper]

Best place to check is Consumer Reports. They rate waxes now and again, for
protection, shine and ease of use. From a decade ago, Nu-Finish came in
number 1, but in more recent reviews it was beaten by others. I still use it
though, because it's easy to find (orange bottle), readily available
(Wal-Mart etc), goes on nicely, and seems to work well.

All I want for Christmas is to go flying today.

bumper

"Guy Acheson" > wrote in message
...
> Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> Wx?
> I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
>
> Guy
>
>
>

[COLIN LAMB]

Many years ago, I used to wax my Ercoupe wings. For about 1/2 hour, I would
pick up about 5 mph. It was quite easy to tell the wax was working - or it
may have been simply cleaning the bugs off.

The internet should have good stuff on car wax. Meguiar's might be a good
website.

Colin

[scooter]

Guy Acheson wrote:
> Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> Wx?
> I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
>
> Guy

Guy;

Here it is, look no further
http://www.buyastroshield.com/?gclid=CJnKwIOQr4kCFSMkWAodSG5tUA

Scott

[[email protected]]

Scott-

The Astroshield website on the link states that the product works best
on non-porous surfaces. To my knowledge, Gel-coat is somewhat porous,
and definitely so where there are cracks. I assume you have been using
it for a while. Any signs of your wings falling off? ;-)

Mark

[KM]

Guy Acheson wrote:
The question
> comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> Wx?

Guy, It depends entirely on what you are trying to do.The main reason
most of us wax our ships is for the UV protection. You can also dress
up an older or neglected finish by polishing it out first.Dupont makes
several good compounds for this and the type you need will depend on
how much oxidation you have.Try to avoid a buffer over 1800 RPM unless
you really know what you are doing because you can build up enough heat
to cause problems with the finish and the glass plies underneath.
Once you are done with this step, you will want to seal your freshly
polished finish by using a wax with the HIGHEST carnuba content you can
find.Several brands sell stuff that is 100% carnuba.It may not be the
easiest to use but it works best for UV protection.Avoid the stuff in
consumer reports because they have different considerations and use
different guidelines than those of sailplane owners.

> Guy

Good Luck,
K Urban

[scooter]

wrote:
> Scott-
>
> The Astroshield website on the link states that the product works best
> on non-porous surfaces. To my knowledge, Gel-coat is somewhat porous,
> and definitely so where there are cracks. I assume you have been using
> it for a while. Any signs of your wings falling off? ;-)
>
> Mark

Mark;

Wings are holding...

I had a rocker panel painted on a car waxed with astro shield. The
paint shop did not do the prep well and and the paint came off in a
perfect mold of the rocker panel...

My gel has been sanded and compounded - pretty smooth these days. The
down side is that the wings are hard to hold on to to rig :-)

Scott

[Eric Greenwell]

KM wrote:

> Once you are done with this step, you will want to seal your freshly
> polished finish by using a wax with the HIGHEST carnuba content you can
> find.Several brands sell stuff that is 100% carnuba.It may not be the
> easiest to use but it works best for UV protection.

Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on
gel coat?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[HL Falbaum]

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:sWkkh.7731$6Z5.1910@trndny01...
> KM wrote:
>
>> Once you are done with this step, you will want to seal your freshly
>> polished finish by using a wax with the HIGHEST carnuba content you can
>> find.Several brands sell stuff that is 100% carnuba.It may not be the
>> easiest to use but it works best for UV protection.
>
> Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on gel
> coat?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
> * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org


Might be biased ( ;-) ) , but check the WxBlock website----I thinhk
they published a comparison betw WxBlock and Carnuba a few years ago. Wx
Block did much better.
Many of the newer products have UV blockers added in.

Hartley Falbaum

[KM]

HL Falbaum wrote:
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
> news:sWkkh.7731$6Z5.1910@trndny01...
> > KM wrote:
> >
> > Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on gel
> > coat?

There could be but I dont know for sure Eric.I probably should not have
posted that Carnuba works best for UV.I should have posted that Carnuba
works very well.Another thing that I should have posted is that the
natural ingredients in Carnuba work to moisturize your finish much in
the same way that lotion moisturizes your skin.This aids tremendously
in the longevity of your finsh.
Ultimatly, any care is better that nothing so some people will use
these easy to apply or "one step" products like those used on cars.Alot
of these will have some pretty harsh chemicals that will not be good
for your finsh over the course of time.You will want to avoid anything
with petrolium distilates in it (Which includes most of your car care
stuff).Have you ever wondered why a profesional detailer will wax a car
using a 3 step process?I would be very leary of any product that claims
to be able to seal and protect your finish in one easy step (Like
Nufinish).
> >
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
>
> Might be biased ( ;-) ) , but check the WxBlock website----I thinhk
> they published a comparison betw WxBlock and Carnuba a few years ago. Wx
> Block did much better.
> Many of the newer products have UV blockers added in.

Hartley, something to consider here is that these companies will
sponsor several "Scientific Tests" but they only publish the one
(Usually out of several) that casts their product in a favorable light.
>
> Hartley Falbaum

Happy Holidays
K Urban

[Dan G]

KM wrote:
> Another thing that I should have posted is that the
> natural ingredients in Carnuba work to moisturize your finish much in
> the same way that lotion moisturizes your skin.This aids tremendously
> in the longevity of your finsh.

I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.
Even the best wax in the world is useless if it's long worn off.


Dan

[KM]

Dan G wrote:
>
> I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
> lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
> others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
surface (unlike Mer).You are correct that most gel coats are water
soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
finish from oxidation by waxing it.
>
> Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
> using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.

Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
product.
Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
the longer your sailplane will last.
>
>
> Dan
K Urban

[Dan G]

KM wrote:

> Dan G wrote:
> >
> > I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
> > lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
> > others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.
>
> Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
> surface (unlike Mer).

Mer can be used wet or dry.

> You are correct that most gel coats are water
> soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
> leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
> finish from oxidation by waxing it.

AFAIK gelcoat isn't water soluble, but it IS porous. If you allow water
to get into the structure of the coating, it can result in freeze/thaw
damage in low temps, and provides a solution for chemical attack.

> >
> > Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
> > using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.
>
> Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
> painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
> reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
> appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
> oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
> product.

People get rather pedantic about the terms wax and polish; I'm quite
lazy and tend to use them interchangeably.

To be clear, Mer has a (very) light abrasive action, just enough to
remove the oxidised and dirt-contaminated top layer (on the microscopic
scale). Usually that layer is old polish, but if the surface has been
neglected then it will be the top layer of the gelcoat/paint/whatever,
which is likely in such bad state you'll want rid of the top surface
anyway. Don't worry, it's impossible to take off so much that you'll
rub through the gelcoat or even alter the profile of the wing. The Mer
then leaves a protective layer (i.e. water proof and UV resisting) on
the surface.

> Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
> sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
> and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
> the longer your sailplane will last.

Yes.


Dan

[Papa3]

Guy Acheson wrote:
> Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> Wx?
> I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
>
> Guy

For what it's worth (i.e. probably not much), I settled on the 3M range
of Marine Wax products. They come in a liquid (useful on the flight
line for those last-minute touch ups) and a paste version. It's
widely available and not prohibitively expensive. The reasoning is
that 3M tends to make quality products and this line is specifically
designed for use with gelcoat.

Erik Mann

[Tim Mara]

don't use the UV blocking claims of many products too seriously......many
products (even clear glass!) block some UV.typically UVA, UVB but few offer
real UV protection beyond that UVC is another more harmful source of serious
damage and few if any of the advertised products offer a substantial source
to block this range (Wx/Block and Wx/Seal does). Looking at the way Wx/Block
actually does this (well beyond my knowledge of chemistry) is by actually in
layman's terms is by sacrificing of itself hence repeated applications are
needed to keep this high level of UV inhibitor active and this is why we
suggest repeated applications and annual/semi-annual rewaxing with Wx/Block
depending on the UV exposure.......and yes it also has a very high moisture
barrier included. Bob Lacovara, the designer of Wx/Block has extensive
knowledge in the areas of Gelcoat and other finishes and has given very
informational talks on the subject in previous SSA conventions.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at:
www.wingsandwheels.com



"KM" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Dan G wrote:
>>
>> I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
>> lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
>> others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.
>
> Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
> surface (unlike Mer).You are correct that most gel coats are water
> soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
> leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
> finish from oxidation by waxing it.
>>
>> Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
>> using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.
>
> Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
> painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
> reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
> appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
> oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
> product.
> Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
> sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
> and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
> the longer your sailplane will last.
>>
>>
>> Dan
> K Urban
>

[KM]

Tim Mara wrote:
> don't use the UV blocking claims of many products too seriously......many
> products (even clear glass!) block some UV.typically UVA, UVB but few offer
> real UV protection beyond that UVC is another more harmful source of serious
> damage and few if any of the advertised products offer a substantial source
> to block this range (Wx/Block and Wx/Seal does).

Amen to your comment about UV claims Tim.Unfortunatly Lacovara also
makes some pie in the sky claims his product doesnt back up.We tried WX
Block on our fleet and it just didnt work that well.To add to this, the
stuff is obscenely expensive when compared to the stuff that the gel
coat manufacturers recomend.

>Looking at the way Wx/Block
> actually does this (well beyond my knowledge of chemistry) is by actually in
> layman's terms is by sacrificing of itself hence repeated applications are
> needed to keep this high level of UV inhibitor active and this is why we
> suggest repeated applications and annual/semi-annual rewaxing with Wx/Block
> depending on the UV exposure.......and yes it also has a very high moisture
> barrier included.

Tim, pretty much all of the waxes work like this.They start to oxidate
the minute you finish a wax job.
Happy Holidays,
K Urban

[KM]

Dan G wrote:
>
> AFAIK gelcoat isn't water soluble, but it IS porous. If you allow water
> to get into the structure of the coating, it can result in freeze/thaw
> damage in low temps, and provides a solution for chemical attack.

With most of the gel coats in use on sailplanes there isnt going to be
enough moisture "traped" by wax to cause any kind of "chemical
attack".My point was that if you dont wax because of a fear of this you
are probably incuring bigger concerns that just moisture.
>
> People get rather pedantic about the terms wax and polish; I'm quite
> lazy and tend to use them interchangeably.

Dan, you are not alone here, I think as a verb everyone does this.As a
noun, these are completely separate products with totally different
uses.
>
> To be clear, Mer has a (very) light abrasive action,

Dan, many products work like this.Abrasives in wax have their pro's and
con's, mostly cons unfortunatly.I looked on the Mer website after I
read your post.Have you noticed this stuff isnt clear coat safe?Did you
also notice that they dont recomend its use on aircraft?I have emailed
them about this and they havent gotten back to me yet but I already
know the answer why.
Dan, there are alot of misconceptions out there about car care
products.I think some of this is due to the fact that modern finishes
(And gel coat for that matter) need different care than the car paints
in use 20 years ago.People want to do things the way they always
have.Old habits die hard I guess.


> Dan
K Urban

[Bill G]

On Friday, December 29, 2006 at 8:58:45 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
> Guy Acheson wrote:
> > Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> > comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> > Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> > Wx?
> > I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> > that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> > have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
> >
> > Guy
>
> For what it's worth (i.e. probably not much), I settled on the 3M range
> of Marine Wax products. They come in a liquid (useful on the flight
> line for those last-minute touch ups) and a paste version. It's
> widely available and not prohibitively expensive. The reasoning is
> that 3M tends to make quality products and this line is specifically
> designed for use with gelcoat.
>
> Erik Mann

Do you still like the 3m UV Marine Products?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
> Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> Wx?
> I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
>
> Guy

When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
> > Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> > comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> > Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> > Wx?
> > I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> > that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> > have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
> >
> > Guy
>
> When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)

Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.

Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.

Richard

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
> > > Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> > > comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> > > Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> > > Wx?
> > > I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> > > that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> > > have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
> > >
> > > Guy
> >
> > When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)
>
> Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.
>
> Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.
>
> Richard

"I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.."

Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?

[Papa3[_2_]]

Ask and ye shall receive. https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/36_1/features/Best-Marine-Wax-That-Beads-Water_5869-1.html

FWIW... I use 3M Finesse-It II polish and 3M Liquid Marine Wax using a heavy duty polisher (Dewalt variable speed polisher) and the recommended polishing and waxing pads. I do a full treatment every spring and then the tops of the wings at least once or twice during the season.

When I sold my 14 year old LS8, the person who did the final once-over before the new buyer accepted it said it was "the best he'd ever seen newer gelcoat look". I'm not 100% sure I'd go that far, but the 3M stuff is good for the average person who doesn't want to do a full hardwax using the heavy-duty cotton wheel.

My opinion is that doing something is better than not doing anything because it's too time-consuming, expensive, etc. The 3M liquid wax is easy enough to use that I can do both wings on a regular flying day after assembly or after flying. So, I use it more reliably.

P3

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 6:32:58 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
> > > > Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> > > > comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> > > > Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> > > > Wx?
> > > > I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> > > > that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> > > > have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
> > > >
> > > > Guy
> > >
> > > When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)
> >
> > Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.
> >
> > Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.
> >
> > Richard
>
> "I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time."
>
> Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
> film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?

Probably not much.

Richard

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 10:57:47 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 6:32:58 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
> > > > > Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
> > > > > comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
> > > > > Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
> > > > > Wx?
> > > > > I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
> > > > > that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
> > > > > have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Guy
> > > >
> > > > When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)
> > >
> > > Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.
> > >
> > > Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.
> > >
> > > Richard
> >
> > "I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time."
> >
> > Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
> > film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?
>
> Probably not much.
>
> Richard

Looking at an experiment ... if you took a piece of glass or plastic that was transparent to UV ... and measured the in-the-sun UV strength with a UV 'light' meter ... then applied a topical UV blocker and measured again - wouldn't this tell you the effectiveness of a UV blocker?

[Karl Striedieck[_2_]]

Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.

When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.

Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.

For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.

I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.

Karl Striedieck

[Bill G]

Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.

Bill Gagen


On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
> Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.
>
> When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.
>
> Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.
>
> For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.
>
> I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.
>
> Karl Striedieck

[Karl Striedieck[_2_]]

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 11:39:58 PM UTC-4, Bill G wrote:
> Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.
>
> Bill Gagen
>
>
> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
> > Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.
> >
> > When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.
> >
> > Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.
> >
> > For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.
> >
> > I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.
> >
> > Karl Striedieck

Bill,

Not sure on the silicone question, but my understanding is that it is irrelevent regarding structural repairs because the scarfing process removes so much laminate the silicone is long gone. Could be a nuisance for a cosmetic gel coat touch up, but hasn't been for me.

Should work on your Stemme, the glider type doesn't matter of course.

Here's a link to a thorough test of numerous marine gel coat protective products. They rated the 3M 09062 highest. https://www.practical-sailor.com/newspics/PS0110_wax.pdf

[Papa3[_2_]]

I'm sure the high volume repair shops would have a point of view, but in my experience as a part-time refinisher and occasional assistant to glass guys doing real repairs, the whole Silicon thing is a red herring. As Karl suggests, any repair involves a huge amount of sanding and cleaning. Even a minor gelcoat repair gets the area cleaned with Prepsolve or Acetone followed by sanding.

I wonder whether this is one of those stories that started with a real problem (maybe a guy with a badly crazed glider using spray silicon from a can on the leading edges to keep the bugs off)? I could see where saturating the gelcoat if it's crazed MIGHT weep down into the substrate fibers.

I'd be interested in hearing of practical examples of problems.




On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC-4, Karl Striedieck wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 11:39:58 PM UTC-4, Bill G wrote:
> > Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.
> >
> > Bill Gagen
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
> > > Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.
> > >
> > > When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.
> > >
> > > Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.
> > >
> > > For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.
> > >
> > > I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.
> > >
> > > Karl Striedieck
>
> Bill,
>
> Not sure on the silicone question, but my understanding is that it is irrelevent regarding structural repairs because the scarfing process removes so much laminate the silicone is long gone. Could be a nuisance for a cosmetic gel coat touch up, but hasn't been for me.
>
> Should work on your Stemme, the glider type doesn't matter of course.
>
> Here's a link to a thorough test of numerous marine gel coat protective products. They rated the 3M 09062 highest. https://www.practical-sailor.com/newspics/PS0110_wax.pdf

[Bill G]

Ok very good! thank you both!

[Bill G]

http://www.glidecoat.com/

This stuff might be worth investigating then based on your comments.

Glidecoat Top Coating is engineered to virtually restore the boats original color while retaining the gloss and protecting the gel coat for up to 18 months from UV damage, dirt, stains, fish blood and salt.
Formulated with Smart Surface Technology, Top Coating will reduced active solids that produce a thin film to allow multi-coating situations, giving the ability to be re-applied on a more frequent basis. The thinner and more forgiving coating is a great replacement for standard wax providing enhanced shine and color restoration that cannot be obtained through a normal wax application.
Glidecoat Top Coating is engineered to penetrate damaged gel coat and paint to restore the original color pigment and provide a glossy shine that is better than new. Unlike wax, Top Coating creates a hard coating and protects the boat from UV damage that penetrates the surface of the vessel. Wax tends to break down quickly, and is a short-term solution before the surface deteriorates and needs to be re-waxed.

[JS]

Answer to the 3M 09062 Si question below. Whether it's enough to worry about may go under "Your Mileage May Vary".
Jim

--------------------------------

Hi Jim,

Thank you for contacting 3M, where we apply science to life.

All our of marine waxes contain some sort of silicone.Â* Unfortunately we do not manufactureÂ*a wax without silicone.

Regards,

Don V.
U.S. Business Services Operations
3M Marine
www.mmm.com/marine
1-877-366-2746

[MNLou]

If you are looking for a silicone free wax for gliders with PU paint, John Murray recommended Griots Garage Best in Show wax to me a couple of years ago.

It seems to work fine.

Easy application with a random orbital buffer set to slow speed and hand wipe off.

YMMV -

Lou