Email from MBNA AOPA

[Robert M. Gary]

I just got the following email from MBNA ....

"You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
Owners and Pilots Ass : "

I think I'll pay off my $25 balance and cut the thing up. Right now,
USAA seems to have the best rebate on gas. I'm getting 5%.

-Robert

[Peter R.]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Ass : "

LOL! So that is what they think of us...

--
Peter

[Walt]

In my experience, MBNA is a complete rip-off. I got rid of their card
quite some time ago (the one I got through AOPA).

I don't use credit cards much but when I do it's my USAA card.

Of course, when you get right down to it all credit cards suck.

But, USAA has served me well for the last 35 years.

--Walt


Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I just got the following email from MBNA ....
>
> "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Ass : "
>
> I think I'll pay off my $25 balance and cut the thing up. Right now,
> USAA seems to have the best rebate on gas. I'm getting 5%.
>
> -Robert

[gpsman]

Walt wrote: <brevity snip>
>
> Of course, when you get right down to it all credit cards suck.

Any tool may be misused. The tool cannot subsequently be found to
"suck".
-----

- gpsman

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Wow... what timing.... I am currently on hold with my credit card company
because somebody charged $525.05 to it on Friday for some computer parts...
We are working as quickly as possible to answer your call, thankyou for your
patience...
Jim

[Walt]

Thank you for that insight, my friend. Point well taken.

I'll remember it the next time I use a hammer and hit my thumb.

Hammers suck.

--Walt (Who won't bother telling you what happens when he tries to use
a drill press)


gpsman wrote:
> Walt wrote: <brevity snip>
> >
> > Of course, when you get right down to it all credit cards suck.
>
> Any tool may be misused. The tool cannot subsequently be found to
> "suck".
> -----
>
> - gpsman

[kontiki]

Walt wrote:
> In my experience, MBNA is a complete rip-off. I got rid of their card
> quite some time ago (the one I got through AOPA).

Personally I don't see this particular card as any more of a ripoff
than any other card. I use them (the two that I have) for convenience
only. The rebate deal with the AOPA card was nice but I have found
that my Shell card will often give me as much or more of a discount
at FBO's that sell Shell AVGAS than ther credit card.

YMMV

[Robert M. Gary]

Walt wrote:
> In my experience, MBNA is a complete rip-off. I got rid of their card
> quite some time ago (the one I got through AOPA).
>
> I don't use credit cards much but when I do it's my USAA card.

Too bad, I get lots of points from my credit cards. I just got a $300
digital camera almost for free with points. And it doesn't cost me a
penny, the merchants pay for the entire thing.

-Robert

[Roy Smith]

In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Walt wrote:
> > In my experience, MBNA is a complete rip-off. I got rid of their card
> > quite some time ago (the one I got through AOPA).
> >
> > I don't use credit cards much but when I do it's my USAA card.
>
> Too bad, I get lots of points from my credit cards. I just got a $300
> digital camera almost for free with points. And it doesn't cost me a
> penny, the merchants pay for the entire thing.
>
> -Robert

One way or another, you're paying for it.

[kontiki]

Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>>Too bad, I get lots of points from my credit cards. I just got a $300
>>digital camera almost for free with points. And it doesn't cost me a
>>penny, the merchants pay for the entire thing.
>>
>>-Robert
>
>
> One way or another, you're paying for it.

Exactly. You are paying more for products because retailers just
mark it up the amount they will have to pay to the credit card
company (who is actually a middle man in the whole scheme of things).

Those points you earn from a credit card company is just a small
'kickback' they use as incentive to get you to buy stuff with a
credit card... so they can skim 3 - 5% off the top of every sale.

[Ron Natalie]

kontiki wrote:

>
> Those points you earn from a credit card company is just a small
> 'kickback' they use as incentive to get you to buy stuff with a
> credit card... so they can skim 3 - 5% off the top of every sale.

Yeah, but that's not where the real profits come from. The real
profits are from the usurious interest rates and fees charged to
those who don't pay the bill off completely each month.

[Pixel Dent]

In article om>,
"gpsman" > wrote:

> Walt wrote: <brevity snip>
> >
> > Of course, when you get right down to it all credit cards suck.
>
> Any tool may be misused. The tool cannot subsequently be found to
> "suck".

Unless the tool is a shop vac

[BT]

MBNA which issued the AOPA credit card, has merged with BoA..
more reason to jack up the interested rates...
pay it off, carry zero balance.. and close those that charge an annual fee.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I just got the following email from MBNA ....
>
> "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Ass : "
>
> I think I'll pay off my $25 balance and cut the thing up. Right now,
> USAA seems to have the best rebate on gas. I'm getting 5%.
>
> -Robert
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article om>,
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> > Walt wrote:
> > > In my experience, MBNA is a complete rip-off. I got rid of their card
> > > quite some time ago (the one I got through AOPA).
> > >
> > > I don't use credit cards much but when I do it's my USAA card.
> >
> > Too bad, I get lots of points from my credit cards. I just got a $300
> > digital camera almost for free with points. And it doesn't cost me a
> > penny, the merchants pay for the entire thing.
> >
> > -Robert
>
> One way or another, you're paying for it.

I'm sharing the cost with you. Merchants are not allowed to charge
extra for credit cards so they charge you (the cash buyer) extra to pay
for my credit card, which I then get 5% cash back with. So, in a sense
*you* are paying for my rebates. I'm fine with that.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> kontiki wrote:
>
> >
> > Those points you earn from a credit card company is just a small
> > 'kickback' they use as incentive to get you to buy stuff with a
> > credit card... so they can skim 3 - 5% off the top of every sale.
>
> Yeah, but that's not where the real profits come from. The real
> profits are from the usurious interest rates and fees charged to
> those who don't pay the bill off completely each month.

Again, fees charged to someone other than me that I benefit from (i.e.
I get the rebates but don't pay the interest fees). I'm also fine with
that.

-Robert

[Judah]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in
:

> computer parts... We are working as quickly as possible to answer your
> call, thankyou for your patience...
> Jim

How, exactly, are they working as quickly as possible to answer your call.
Are they hanging up on everyone else in the Queue?

[Jim Burns]

Nah... turns out they were transfering them to the same non effective
automated answering machine that I ended up with. How am I supposed to
know either the order number or the invoice number for something that
somebody else charged to my credit card??? When I refused to give the
machine either the invoice or order number, it thanked me for shopping with
them and then hung up on me.
Jim


"Judah" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in
> :
>
>> computer parts... We are working as quickly as possible to answer your
>> call, thankyou for your patience...
>> Jim
>
> How, exactly, are they working as quickly as possible to answer your call.
> Are they hanging up on everyone else in the Queue?

[BT]

I usually find.. that hitting lots of zeros on the number pad.. when going
through an automated answering system will get me to some one who can talk..
comprehension is another matter..

it may take two or three times of hitting four to five zeros in a row.. for
the automated ssytem to give up on you and pass you off to a supposed human

BT

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Nah... turns out they were transfering them to the same non effective
> automated answering machine that I ended up with. How am I supposed to
> know either the order number or the invoice number for something that
> somebody else charged to my credit card??? When I refused to give the
> machine either the invoice or order number, it thanked me for shopping
> with them and then hung up on me.
> Jim
>
>
> "Judah" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Jim Burns" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> computer parts... We are working as quickly as possible to answer your
>>> call, thankyou for your patience...
>>> Jim
>>
>> How, exactly, are they working as quickly as possible to answer your
>> call.
>> Are they hanging up on everyone else in the Queue?
>
>

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> I just got the following email from MBNA ....
>
> "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Ass : "

You're sure it's actually from MBNA, and not a phishing e-mail?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Denny]

In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
world is getting curiouser and curiouser...

denny

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > I just got the following email from MBNA ....
> >
> > "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> > Owners and Pilots Ass : "
>
> You're sure it's actually from MBNA, and not a phishing e-mail?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Denny]

In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
world is getting curiouser and curiouser...

denny

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > I just got the following email from MBNA ....
> >
> > "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> > Owners and Pilots Ass : "
>
> You're sure it's actually from MBNA, and not a phishing e-mail?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Christopher Brian Colohan]

The agreement with the credit processing firm usually forbids this
practice -- if they accepted your offer and you worked for a credit
card company, then the merchant may lose their ability to accept
credit cards.

Because of this, when I am making big purchases I say up front that I
am paying cash, and then ask if the price is negotiable. I never link
the two facts, since that may discourage them from giving me a good
deal...

Chris

"Denny" > writes:
> In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
> mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
> will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
> jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
> totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
> So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
> and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
> still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
> world is getting curiouser and curiouser...
>
> denny
>
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Robert M. Gary writes:
> >
> > > I just got the following email from MBNA ....
> > >
> > > "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> > > Owners and Pilots Ass : "
> >
> > You're sure it's actually from MBNA, and not a phishing e-mail?
> >
> > --
> > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Judah]

Pay cash and you could have saved more than 1.5%...

"Denny" > wrote in news:1167226193.997061.161880
@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

> In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
> mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
> will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
> jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
> totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
> So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
> and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
> still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
> world is getting curiouser and curiouser...
>
> denny

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Denny wrote:
> In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
> mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
> will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
> jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
> totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
> So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
> and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
> still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
> world is getting curiouser and curiouser...

Or, he's got a 1.5%, or so credit card deal.

If he doesn't know you, there is also greater risk accepting the check.

I find cash offers entice better discounts than a check. <G>

[Peter Dohm]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
t...
> Denny wrote:
> > In the early days of credit cards I used to offer <on big purchases
> > mainly> to the merchant that if he splts the 3% credit fee with me I
> > will pay witha check and we each make 1.5%... In those days they all
> > jumped at it... This past month I offered that on two purchases
> > totaling some $8K, and got a shrug and "Uhhh gee, we don't do that"...
> > So fine, I paid with a card, sent the check to the credit card company
> > and the merchant lost the opportunity to make an additional 1.5% and I
> > still have a zero balance card at the end of the month...... Seems the
> > world is getting curiouser and curiouser...
>
> Or, he's got a 1.5%, or so credit card deal.
>
> If he doesn't know you, there is also greater risk accepting the check.
>
> I find cash offers entice better discounts than a check. <G>

All are frequently true, presuming that you are tlking to a/the decision
maker.

[Peter Dohm]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > I just got the following email from MBNA ....
> >
> > "You have a new e-Bill from Bank of America Credit Card - Aircraft
> > Owners and Pilots Ass : "
>
> You're sure it's actually from MBNA, and not a phishing e-mail?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

If if was me a *would* call the number on the reverse of the card and ask!

[Peter Duniho]

"Christopher Brian Colohan" > wrote in message
.. .
> The agreement with the credit processing firm usually forbids this
> practice -- if they accepted your offer and you worked for a credit
> card company, then the merchant may lose their ability to accept
> credit cards.

Not true.

Credit merchant agreements prohibit charging users of credit cards *more*,
but they do not prohibit the merchant from offering a discount to those
paying without a credit card.

Here's one article that includes a statement from Visa to that effect:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/241548_wellspent21.html

Personally, I find the distinction silly, but it exists.

By the way, only slightly related to the above, my experience has been that
even when a merchant does charge extra to people using credit cards, there's
very little chance of anything bad happening to them. The central credit
card company (Visa or Mastercard) doesn't care...they instruct you to take
it up with the specific bank providing your credit card, and the banks I've
had credit cards with haven't appeared to be interested in providing any
real customer service, never mind following up on something like credit
surcharges.

YMMV.

Pete

[Jose[_1_]]

> Personally, I find the distinction silly, but it exists.

It's not as silly as it seems at first sight. IT forces the vendor to
advertise the higher price, thus losing whatever (advertising) advantage
he would have by treating the difference as an added fee rather than a
discount. He wouldn't get a leg up against another vendor's advertised
price.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Scott Skylane]

BT wrote:

> I usually find.. that hitting lots of zeros on the number pad.. when going
> through an automated answering system will get me to some one who can talk..
> comprehension is another matter..

http://www.gethuman.com/us/

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Peter Duniho]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Personally, I find the distinction silly, but it exists.
>
> It's not as silly as it seems at first sight.

Yes, it is.

> IT forces the vendor to advertise the higher price, thus losing whatever
> (advertising) advantage he would have by treating the difference as an
> added fee rather than a discount. He wouldn't get a leg up against
> another vendor's advertised price.

Unless, of course, he includes in his advertising the information that he
will discount the price by some amount for people not using credit cards.
There's no prohibition against any such advertising.

Also, I most often run into merchants adding this fee to credit card users
(in the form of a discount for everyone else) in situations where there is
no real concept of "advertised price". My dentist, for example.

And of course, your explanation begs the question of why a credit card
company would write into their contracts a loophole that, rather than
actually prohibiting surcharges for credit charges, simply undermines their
customer's supposed ability to gain an advertising advantage. To believe
your explanation requires that one assume that the credit card company cares
more about how their clients advertise and less about whether credit card
users are charged a surcharge or not. I don't find that assumption
compelling.

Pete

[Jose[_1_]]

>>It's not as silly as it seems at first sight.
> Yes, it is.

No, it isn't.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's not silly. It is just less silly than it
seems. It seems sillier than it is.

> Unless, of course, he includes in his advertising the information that he
> will discount the price by some amount for people not using credit cards.
> There's no prohibition against any such advertising.

No, but there are rules about it. The discounted price cannot be more
prominent than the nominal price.

> Also, I most often run into merchants adding this fee to credit card users
> (in the form of a discount for everyone else) in situations where there is
> no real concept of "advertised price". My dentist, for example.

Hmmm. I'll have to ask my dentist about that too. But if somebody
calls and says "how much is an exam", the price that is quoted should be
the non-discounted price. There really =is= a concept of "advertised
price", it's just, well, not advertised. :)

> And of course, your explanation begs the question of why a credit card
> company would write into their contracts a loophole...
> your explanation requires that one assume that the credit card company cares
> more about how their clients advertise and less about whether credit card
> users are charged a surcharge or not.

Historically, I believe that is the case. IIRC, the "discount for cash"
gave an advantage to merchants who did this, to the detriment of
merchants who did not. CC companies valued the latter more, and
listened to their complaints (and the complaints of CC holders who
resented being charged). By putting in this rule, they induced people
to use CCs more, which is what the CC companies are =really= interested in.

They still valued the other merchants, and I guess that was the
compromise that was reached. I think some attorney generals got
involved too.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[skym]

I'll start using cash, I suppose. But some FBO's actually have given
me a 5% discount for using the AOPA card; then I get a 5% discount from
MBNA when I turn it in at the end of the year as part of my application
for the 5% rebate. Works out to a 9.75% discount on some (but few,
and, small) discounts. Since my annual is always put on the card, plus
all else, I always count on a $250/yr rebate, anyway.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Jose wrote:
>>> It's not as silly as it seems at first sight.
>> Yes, it is.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> Mind you, I'm not saying it's not silly. It is just less silly than it
> seems. It seems sillier than it is.

Is surface appearance the true measure of how silly it is?

[Jose[_1_]]

> Is surface appearance the true measure of how silly it is?

No, but it's the true measure of how silly it seems.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose[_1_]]

> I didn't think it was as silly as it seemed.

You and I agree.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.