AeroScooter

[J.Kahn]

http://www.airscooter.com/pages/airscooter_main.htm

This guy got an MIT invention award and a gushing story on CBS news.

But the bloody thing has a single engine and does NOT auto rotate,
having fixed pitch blades, so you either have a ballistic parachute that
somehow doesn't get tangled in the rotor or you die when the engine
quits above 10 or 20 feet or so.

Why do people come up with such insane contraptions...

[Denny]

Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
genius..

denny

J.Kahn wrote:
> http://www.airscooter.com/pages/airscooter_main.htm
>
> This guy got an MIT invention award and a gushing story on CBS news.
>
> But the bloody thing has a single engine and does NOT auto rotate,
> having fixed pitch blades, so you either have a ballistic parachute that
> somehow doesn't get tangled in the rotor or you die when the engine
> quits above 10 or 20 feet or so.
>
> Why do people come up with such insane contraptions...

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Denny wrote:
> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still
> be pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> genius..
>
> denny
>

Don't know the technical reason but their own website has this to say in the
FAQ.

Question: Does the AirScooter auto-rotate?

Answer: The AirScooter is designed for the recreational sport flyer and as
such does not auto-rotate. The AirScooter is designed for recreational
flying at low altitude where even traditional helicopters have little
benefit from auto-rotation. Design efforts have been done on a ballistic
emergency chute for the AirScooter. To be included for future email updates
on this issue click here to join our email list.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article om>, Denny says...
>
>Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>genius..

The gyrocopter is always in a state of autorotation, that is the flow goes thru
the rotor from the bottom to the top.A helicopter goes from the top thru the
bottom .So in order to change flow direction and autorotate the pitch must be
changed . In a fix pitch design this cant be done .So in the event of an engine
failure the royor(s) will slow down and lose lift.

Chuck (ex Scheutzow Helicopter employee) S

[Denny]

Yup, about 1 millisecond after I hit send my brain got an extra
molecule of oxygen and I remembered the difference in blade pitch... I
cringed because I expected to get blasted by the group, but so far
everyone has been kind...
I still expect this machine to fail in the marketplace...

denny

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article om>, Denny says...
> >
> >Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> >gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> >I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> >pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> >genius..
>
> The gyrocopter is always in a state of autorotation, that is the flow goes thru
> the rotor from the bottom to the top.A helicopter goes from the top thru the
> bottom .So in order to change flow direction and autorotate the pitch must be
> changed . In a fix pitch design this cant be done .So in the event of an engine
> failure the royor(s) will slow down and lose lift.
>
> Chuck (ex Scheutzow Helicopter employee) S

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article om>, Denny says...
>
>Yup, about 1 millisecond after I hit send my brain got an extra
>molecule of oxygen and I remembered the difference in blade pitch... I
>cringed because I expected to get blasted by the group, but so far
>everyone has been kind...
>I still expect this machine to fail in the marketplace...


Naaahh we're not that bad. You only get blasted around here if ya act like jaun
LOL!!! Like you I don't think it will fly in the marketplace either even if it
does fly..First engine out and that's the end of story .

See ya

Chuck S

[J.Kahn]

Denny wrote:
> Yup, about 1 millisecond after I hit send my brain got an extra
> molecule of oxygen and I remembered the difference in blade pitch... I
> cringed because I expected to get blasted by the group, but so far
> everyone has been kind...
> I still expect this machine to fail in the marketplace...
>
> denny
>
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>> In article om>, Denny says...
>>> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>>> genius..
>> The gyrocopter is always in a state of autorotation, that is the flow goes thru
>> the rotor from the bottom to the top.A helicopter goes from the top thru the
>> bottom .So in order to change flow direction and autorotate the pitch must be
>> changed . In a fix pitch design this cant be done .So in the event of an engine
>> failure the royor(s) will slow down and lose lift.
>>
>> Chuck (ex Scheutzow Helicopter employee) S
>

But not before our ignorant media convinces a few people to buy them...

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Bryan: For under $50,000 you can get a single seat Helicycle turbine
powered helicopter kit as well as for about half that an ultralite
helicopter that can autorotate. I had the opportunity to hover the little
Mosquito ultralite and it hovered and hover taxiied very nicely.
Yep I will be very surprised to see the AirScooter sell very much. They do
have an interesting engine project going however.
BTW I have to set my blade pitch to minus 0.5 degrees so that my Baby Belle
autorotates with the collective full down. If I try to hover with the
collective full down, it doesn't matter how much rotor rpm I get. It just
pushes me down on the ground harder. To hover I have to increase the pitch
of my blades.

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
...
> The faq page states that it will not auto rotate and I believe it. A
> gyrocopter is always in auto rotation, the blades in the unpowered rotor
> are pitched accordingly. This thing is a helicopter, the rotor is
> powered and the blades are fixed pitched. If a helicopter loses power,
> you have to transition to auto rotation by dumping the collective to
> repitch the blades for the reversed airflow through the rotor. With a
> fixed pitch rotor, this is not possible.
>
> Their description of this thing makes it sound like it's only good for
> tooling around over open fields or water in ground effect. The projected
> price is "under $50,000". For that kind of money I could buy a
> quadrunner, a jet-ski and a snowmobile and get almost the same
> experience in any season. Or I could buy a gyrocopter kit and have
> something that might actually survive a power off landing.
>
>
> In article om>,
> "Denny" > wrote:
>
> > Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> > gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> > I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> > pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> > genius..
> >
> > denny
> >
> > J.Kahn wrote:
> > > http://www.airscooter.com/pages/airscooter_main.htm
> > >
> > > This guy got an MIT invention award and a gushing story on CBS news.
> > >
> > > But the bloody thing has a single engine and does NOT auto rotate,
> > > having fixed pitch blades, so you either have a ballistic parachute
that
> > > somehow doesn't get tangled in the rotor or you die when the engine
> > > quits above 10 or 20 feet or so.
> > >
> > > Why do people come up with such insane contraptions...
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive.

[Ron Natalie]

Denny wrote:
> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> genius..
>
There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
of the engine loss of power.

[[email protected]]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Denny wrote:
> > Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> > gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> > I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> > pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> > genius..
> >
> There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
> of the engine loss of power.
I




In addition, the rotor diameter is stated to be only 14 feet, blades
are "exttruded aluminum". There can't be a lot of mass there, can
there? Remembering it IS *ultralight*.

Web site also recommends not flying over 50 feet above ground. Well,
dangit, how ya gonna clear the power lines if ya can't go over 50 ft?

Controls like a motorcycle -- just gotta appeal to "everyman".

But like others stated, it will attract attention, and likely money
too. (Remembering PTB's ",,,born everyminute" )

Flash

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, J.Kahn says...
>>>>Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>>>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>>>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>>>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>>>> genius..
>>>The gyrocopter is always in a state of autorotation, that is the flow goes thru
>>> the rotor from the bottom to the top.A helicopter goes from the top thru the
>>>bottom .So in order to change flow direction and autorotate the pitch must be
>>>changed . In a fix pitch design this cant be done .So in the event of an engine
>>> failure the royor(s) will slow down and lose lift.
>>>
>>> Chuck (ex Scheutzow Helicopter employee) S
>>
>
>But not before our ignorant media convinces a few people to buy them...


I'm sure if they advertize on ANN zoom would give it rave reviews and a puff
piece on how well it flys. That's what he has done before.

See ya

Chuck S

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Ron Natalie says...
>
>Denny wrote:
>> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>> genius..
>>
>There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
>of the engine loss of power.

Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change pitch
elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)

Chuck S

[Montblack]

("Denny" wrote)
> I cringed because I expected to get blasted by the group, but so far
> everyone has been kind...


We're still typing...


Montblack :-)

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Guess what? The EAA video from 2005 had essentially no homebuilt aircraft,
did not cover the awards, and the only rotorcraft covered was a brief shot
of the AirScooter. Now I can, with effort, understand how some TV people
could be ignorant of some of the details needed for successful helicopter
flight and even stretching further allow Popular Science magazine some
ignorance, but EAA too?

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Ron Natalie
says...
> >
> >Denny wrote:
> >> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> >> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> >> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> >> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> >> genius..
> >>
> >There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
> >of the engine loss of power.
>
> Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change
pitch
> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>
> Chuck S
>

[Dan[_2_]]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article >, Ron Natalie says...
>> Denny wrote:
>>> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>>> genius..
>>>
>> There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
>> of the engine loss of power.
>
> Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change pitch
> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>
> Chuck S
>
Chuck, many readers of this NG aren't up on technical jargon like
"heap of do do." Please keep it simple, perhaps "deep kemsche" would be
better :)

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Maxwell]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>> In article >, Ron Natalie
>> says...
>>> Denny wrote:
>>>> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>>>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>>>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>>>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>>>> genius..
>>>>
>>> There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
>>> of the engine loss of power.
>>
>> Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change
>> pitch
>> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>>
>> Chuck S
>>
> Chuck, many readers of this NG aren't up on technical jargon like "heap
> of do do." Please keep it simple, perhaps "deep kemsche" would be better
> :)
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Deep what????

[Ron Natalie]

Maxwell wrote:

>> Chuck, many readers of this NG aren't up on technical jargon like "heap
>> of do do." Please keep it simple, perhaps "deep kemsche" would be better
>> :)
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Deep what????
>
>
Hi think he means Kimchi. Korean spicy pickled cabbage.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Dan says...
>>>Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change pitch
>> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>>
>> Chuck S
>>
> Chuck, many readers of this NG aren't up on technical jargon like
>"heap of do do." Please keep it simple, perhaps "deep kemsche" would be
>better :)

Only if they've been to Korea but I'll strive to be more diligent :-)

Chuck S

[J.Kahn]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Maxwell wrote:
>
>>> Chuck, many readers of this NG aren't up on technical jargon like
>>> "heap of do do." Please keep it simple, perhaps "deep kemsche" would
>>> be better :)
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>> Deep what????
>>
> Hi think he means Kimchi. Korean spicy pickled cabbage.

So THAT'S what that stuff is. I love those Kimchi ramen noodle bowl meals.

[Harry K]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article >, J.Kahn says...
> >>>>Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> >>>> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> >>>> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> >>>> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> >>>> genius..
> >>>The gyrocopter is always in a state of autorotation, that is the flow goes thru
> >>> the rotor from the bottom to the top.A helicopter goes from the top thru the
> >>>bottom .So in order to change flow direction and autorotate the pitch must be
> >>>changed . In a fix pitch design this cant be done .So in the event of an engine
> >>> failure the royor(s) will slow down and lose lift.
> >>>
> >>> Chuck (ex Scheutzow Helicopter employee) S
> >>
> >
> >But not before our ignorant media convinces a few people to buy them...
>
>
> I'm sure if they advertize on ANN zoom would give it rave reviews and a puff
> piece on how well it flys. That's what he has done before.
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S

Waiting on pins and needles for his flight test report. Exhilerating
loops, spins and rolls.

Harry K

[Peter Dohm]

> >> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
> >> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
> >> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
> >> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
> >> genius..
> >>
> >There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
> >of the engine loss of power.
>
> Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change
pitch
> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>
It looked like some "scary ****" even before any engine problems occur!

I couldn't figure out how it is supposed to be controlled in pitch and roll,
since there is no cyclic, or even how it is to be accelerated and slowed
back down...

But, somehow, it fits my sense of voyeurism. As such, I have duct-taped
(the everyman's tool) a hand-held mirror to the end of a length of 1x2 at a
45 degree angle--so that I can watch a demo flight while cringing behind the
nearest solid structure (wearing safety goggles in case my mirror gets
shattered).

Peter
(Curious, but Yellow)

[Mark Hickey]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote:

>> >> Why wouldn't it auto rotate?... The blades are no different than a
>> >> gyrocopter's fixed blades and they autorotate...
>> >> I can confidently predict that like Moeller's Skycar they will still be
>> >> pitching it to "investors" for years to come... PT Barnum was a
>> >> genius..
>> >>
>> >There's no clutch on the blades to allow them to free spin in case
>> >of the engine loss of power.
>>
>> Right you need a clutch to disengage the engine and the ability to change
>pitch
>> elstwise your in a heap of do do :-)
>>
>It looked like some "scary ****" even before any engine problems occur!
>
>I couldn't figure out how it is supposed to be controlled in pitch and roll,
>since there is no cyclic, or even how it is to be accelerated and slowed
>back down...
>
>But, somehow, it fits my sense of voyeurism. As such, I have duct-taped
>(the everyman's tool) a hand-held mirror to the end of a length of 1x2 at a
>45 degree angle--so that I can watch a demo flight while cringing behind the
>nearest solid structure (wearing safety goggles in case my mirror gets
>shattered).

You mean, something like this....

http://www.habcycles.com/helocrash.wmv

Mark "don't try this at home, kids" Hickey

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article om>, Harry K
says...
>> >But not before our ignorant media convinces a few people to buy them...
>>
>>
>> I'm sure if they advertize on ANN zoom would give it rave reviews and a puff
>> piece on how well it flys. That's what he has done before.
>>
>> See ya
>>
>> Chuck S
>
>Waiting on pins and needles for his flight test report. Exhilerating
>loops, spins and rolls.

When Fetters was advertising in zooms US Aviator zoom was giving Dennis rave
reviews.When Dennis quit advertising zoom quit the rave reviews. When I first
zooms "pilot report" on the mini 500 I read something in the article that had me
fall on the floor laughing. When I worked for Scheutzow Helicopter we often took
potential customers for a demo flight .If our pilot felt that the potential
customer was a good enough pilot to solo he would let the guy take the
helicopter up.

If he wasn't good enough the pilot would land and tell me "we're gonna do a
little post flight debriefing before we go again, how about giving it a quick
once over". That was my signal to pull the magnetic plug on the tail rotor gear
box get some oil on my finger and go to the drill press for a little bit of
shiny metal debris to mix with the oil. Then I would solemnly walk into the
office and tell Tim .Gee I just found some metal on the plug and I really should
tear down the gear box and check it while showing the oily finger with tiny bits
of metal to both him and the customer.

Naturally we all agreed that it was better not to fly then take a chance on a
tail rotor failure. Thereby letting the customer down without having to damage
his pride by saying "your a crummy pilot and we don't trust you with our
machine".Webb who was the owner of the company said that was a move they did
when he worked for Hiller Helicopter.

So when I read zooms account of his test flight of the Mini 500 he wrote ,and
I'm paraphrasing, "I landed and we took a lunch break but my afternoon flying
session was cut short when some debris was found on the magnetic oil plug."

I often wondered if Dennis knew the old trick or if there really was some debris
on the plug and that was his way of keeping zoom out of the machine:-)

Chuck (Rotor Flagging) S

[Peter Dohm]

>
> You mean, something like this....
>
> http://www.habcycles.com/helocrash.wmv
>
Well, that was the scenario I was thinking of.

However, I was wrong. I had forgotten how gyrocopters are controlled. So
the only problem should be the atorotation issue. That's a big one, but the
fact remains that I was wrong.

Peter
Looking for some worms to eat... :-(