Lost stories here

[Danny Deger]

Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.

My first one is "The lake that shouldn't be there". I was flying from north
of the Dallas/Fort Worth area to my home port of Luck Field which is south
of Fort Worth. No radios of any type in my little Taylorcraft. All was
well. A nice day with reasonable visibility. Some haze but strong VFR.

About halfway to Dallas I come over a lake. A big lake. One that would be
HUGE on my sectional. It was not on the map. I had just been flying for
about 45 minutes on a magnetic heading and keeping close track of time.
There was NO way this lake could be on the ground but not on my map. The
vis was such I couldn't see the buildings of Dallas or Fort Worth. I was
convinced somehow I had gotten lost. I thought maybe the compass was stuck
on the wrong heading. I did a couple of small turns to see if the compass
moved. The compass passed this test.

But my training kicked in -- if in doubt, fly the heading needed and keep
track of time. I did this. After about 20 minutes I got to another lake
and this one was on the map. I was on course.

It turns out my mystery lake was new and not on the maps yet. My map was
current. I swear it was. I never use out of date maps. That's my story
and I am sticking to it :-)

Anyway I was where I thought I was, but very concerned for a while when I
saw that damned lake under me that wasn't supposed to be there.

What is your favorite "lost" story?

Danny Deger

[Typhoon502]

Danny Deger wrote:

> It turns out my mystery lake was new and not on the maps yet. My map was
> current. I swear it was. I never use out of date maps. That's my story
> and I am sticking to it :-)
>
> Anyway I was where I thought I was, but very concerned for a while when I
> saw that damned lake under me that wasn't supposed to be there.

A new LAKE? That's pretty big for a "new" thing.

I wasn't airborne, but roadborne with a satnav trying to get from Point
A to Point B in a new city, and was tooling along a massive divided
four-lane when suddently, the GPS started trying to U-turn me. Turned
out that the road was newer than my data...the navigator thought I was
going off-road for a good half-mile.

[Danny Deger]

"Typhoon502" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Danny Deger wrote:
>
>> It turns out my mystery lake was new and not on the maps yet. My map was
>> current. I swear it was. I never use out of date maps. That's my story
>> and I am sticking to it :-)
>>
>> Anyway I was where I thought I was, but very concerned for a while when I
>> saw that damned lake under me that wasn't supposed to be there.
>
> A new LAKE? That's pretty big for a "new" thing.
>

Yes. A new LAKE. They had just completed a dam and I guess the lake filled
up pretty fast behind the dam. As I said. My story is my charts were up to
date. That's my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Danny Deger

[Ed Rasimus[_1_]]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:00:26 -0600, "Danny Deger"
> wrote:

>What is your favorite "lost" story?
>

Every IP knows that you have to let the students go a little bit, so
that they can see the outcome of their errors and then the lesson is
reinforced. The difficult judgement call is knowing how far to let
them progress and still be able to make the recovery without damage to
the airplane or the landscape.

I was watching a student doing a VFR low-level nav in a T-37 across
the desert of Southern Arizona. We'd headed outside of the Williams
AFB local training area and SW of Tucson into the area south of I-10.
He'd gotten overwhelmed with flying low and still trying to keep up
with map-reading and dead reckoning, and I was dutifully urging him to
ease it down just a bit more so that he could successfully penetrate
the fictitious enemy defenses. I knew we weren't going to be running
out of gas--we were headed generally north bound and we could easily
make it back to Willy.

What I didn't know (but should have) was that we were entering the
Gila Bend gunnery range and just over the next ridge ahead of us was a
conventional air-to-ground gunnery range. We crested the ridge, I saw
the target array, run-in-lines, strafe panels, control tower and a
flight of four Phantoms in the box pattern doing 30 degree dive bomb
drops.

"I've got the airplane..."

"Yessir, you've got it..."

"We're going to go a bit lower now, and watch how we use this ridge
line for terrain masking."

"Wow, sir, we're really low."

"Not really, this is about five hundred feet."

"But, sir, it looks closer to about fifty. That saguaro was higher
than we were."

"That's just an optical illusion caused by our speed."

"Don't you think we should climb now, sir?"

"No, not until I hop over this semi, and we get north of the
Interstate here. Ahhh, that looks good. You want to tune in Chandler
VOR now and get ready for an instrument approach when we get there?"

"Is my low-level over, sir?"

"Yep."


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:00:20 GMT, Ed Rasimus > wrote in
>:

> ... "Don't you think we should climb now, sir?"

>"No, not until I hop over this semi, and we get north of the
>Interstate here. Ahhh, that looks good. ..."

LOL!

Great story. Thanks for sharing it!

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:00:26 -0600, "Danny Deger"
> > wrote:
>
>>What is your favorite "lost" story?
>>
>
> Every IP knows that you have to let the students go a little bit, so
> that they can see the outcome of their errors and then the lesson is
> reinforced. The difficult judgement call is knowing how far to let
> them progress and still be able to make the recovery without damage to
> the airplane or the landscape.

Correct of course...............and this can no doubt take on some real IP
"decision making moments" as he sits in the back of a T38 on final with a
student up front starting to develop a rather LARGE sink rate :-))))))
Dudley Henriques

[Dan[_2_]]

Danny Deger wrote:
<snip>
>
> What is your favorite "lost" story?
>
> Danny Deger
>

I won't say where this happened or when in case any of the offending
crew is still married :) I will say it was back in the day when we could
get away with pictures of naked women under the plexiglass on the
plotter table of HC-130 aircraft. I was sitting in the left scanner seat
listening to the flight deck discussing the latest copy of Hustler. We
were heading in the general direction of a place where the locals would
not be happy to see us. Pilot asked nav where we were. Nav replied "we
should just be passing a large village near a river at 9 o'clock." Pilot
looked and couldn't see it. I stated that we had passed a small village
about 10 minutes before, but there was no river. Nav and pilot agreed
that must be it and went back to the discussion at hand. I decided I
didn't want to hear anymore and a bunk had just become unoccupied so I
crawled in. Not much later things got noisy as we did a very sharp 180.

I never did ask how far we had been off course :) It never was
discussed when we got back to the states.]

The running gag in that unit was you could tell how confident the nav
was by the width of the lines on his charts.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[George Z. Bush]

Danny Deger wrote:
> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> My first one is "The lake that shouldn't be there". I was flying from north
> of the Dallas/Fort Worth area to my home port of Luck Field which is south
> of Fort Worth. No radios of any type in my little Taylorcraft. All was
> well. A nice day with reasonable visibility. Some haze but strong VFR.
>
> About halfway to Dallas I come over a lake. A big lake. One that would be
> HUGE on my sectional. It was not on the map. I had just been flying for
> about 45 minutes on a magnetic heading and keeping close track of time.
> There was NO way this lake could be on the ground but not on my map. The
> vis was such I couldn't see the buildings of Dallas or Fort Worth. I was
> convinced somehow I had gotten lost. I thought maybe the compass was stuck
> on the wrong heading. I did a couple of small turns to see if the compass
> moved. The compass passed this test.
>
> But my training kicked in -- if in doubt, fly the heading needed and keep
> track of time. I did this. After about 20 minutes I got to another lake
> and this one was on the map. I was on course.
>
> It turns out my mystery lake was new and not on the maps yet. My map was
> current. I swear it was. I never use out of date maps. That's my story
> and I am sticking to it :-)
>
> Anyway I was where I thought I was, but very concerned for a while when I
> saw that damned lake under me that wasn't supposed to be there.
>
> What is your favorite "lost" story?

Shortly after the end of WWII, I had a flight from Capodichino (Naples, Italy)
to Orly outside of Paris in a C-47. In those days, enroute services were kind
of minimal, so I was tooling along FD&H until I reached what should have been an
enroute checkpoint and I couldn't find it. Maps, pilotage, etc. and still
couldn't recognize anything on the ground that'd give me a clue.

Finally, I spotted what looked like an active airfield, which I gingerly
approached and circled, hoping to see the name of the place painted on the top
of a barn roof or something similar, but no such luck. Finally, I tooled into
the landing pattern and set down. Taxiied up to what appeared to be a Base Ops
of some sort with people standing around out front watching me. I shut down and
got out to approach one and the conversation went something like this:

"Qu'est-ce que c'est le nom ici?. Je suis perdu." (What's the name of this
place? I'm lost.)

"Monsieur, ce place s'appelle Rheims." (Sir, this place is called Rheims)

"Merci, beaucoup.........au revoir!" (Thanks........bye!)

I'd been bucking a hellaceous and totally unexpected headwind and really wasn't
very far off course or far from my destination. I hadn't called to ask for
permission to land, nor had I filed any sort of additional clearance on leaving
to resume my flight. The funny thing about it was that I never heard another
word about that impromptu navigation maneuver from a single soul.....the only
people who knew that it happened were my crew and the Frenchmen on the ground,
and none of us talked.

I shudder to think of what I'd have had to go through if the same thing happened
to me in the States, even at that time.

George Z.

[Ed Rasimus[_1_]]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:38:16 -0500, "Dudley Henriques"
> wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:00:26 -0600, "Danny Deger"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>What is your favorite "lost" story?
>>>
>>
>> Every IP knows that you have to let the students go a little bit, so
>> that they can see the outcome of their errors and then the lesson is
>> reinforced. The difficult judgement call is knowing how far to let
>> them progress and still be able to make the recovery without damage to
>> the airplane or the landscape.
>
>Correct of course...............and this can no doubt take on some real IP
>"decision making moments" as he sits in the back of a T38 on final with a
>student up front starting to develop a rather LARGE sink rate :-))))))
>Dudley Henriques
>

I've not done the UPT thing in a T-38, but spent about 1500 hours (in
..9 increments) as an IP (and IP's IP) in the AT-38 at Fighter Lead-In.

Generally the landing wasn't much of an issue. The flight attitude
would tell you most of what you needed to know--if you had the right
pitch and the airspeed was ball park, you were OK. But, things happen
occasionally.

I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a Raven
and was generally crazy, but a good aviator. First traffic pattern,
just as you describe. He falls back on his old FAC flying patterns and
goes to "flare"--not the thing to do, in the Talon which responded to
holding constant attitude until entering ground effect and then when
the airplane tries to lower the nose in response to the increased wing
effectiveness, simply adding back pressure to hold the landing
attitude.

He flares at about 40 feet AGL. I sense impending doom and calmly
adopt a mezzo-soprano tone as I scream "I've got it!" Grab the bird,
freeze the stick and simultaneously reach for a yard of throttle.
Bottom falls out, we impact and bounce into the air about 25 feet just
in time for the burners to light and I gingerly milk it back into
controlled flight.

"Let's try another one, and this time lets do it like the briefing,
OK?"


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Jeff Crowell[_1_]]

Ed Rasimus wrote:
> Every IP knows that you have to let the students go a little bit, so
> that they can see the outcome of their errors and then the lesson is
> reinforced. The difficult judgement call is knowing how far to let
> them progress and still be able to make the recovery without damage to
> the airplane or the landscape.

Ye olde learning curve!

Didn't happen to me, but to a friend while we were in Basic
Jet in Kingsville, TX. Late in the Fam series, one each student
and IP in a Tango Two, IP in the back. There was a dingus
back there which let the IP slew the directional gyro in order to
test the S.A. of the stud up front. Approaching the end of the
hop, said IP applied said dingus, and said "let's go home."

Stud makes the initial callup to homeplate ("Ready or not, here
I come," more or less), tunes up NASKINGS on the TACAN,
and turns until the arrowhead is at the top of the DG. Time
passes. IP waits. More time passes. Irritation grows in the
back seat. Finally: "Sure looks dry out there." (NASKINGS,
for the uninitiated, sits a few miles off an arm of Baffin Bay,
near the Gulf of Mexico. The bay is visible for mucho miles
prior to arrival). "Yes sir." More JP-5 becomes
smoke and noise. Kingsville Approach, accustomed to this
sort of thing, hasn't commented on the fact that Our Hero hasn't
reported the 5-mile initial yet. "Some kinda drought down
there, huh?" "Yes sir," as before, but a bit nervously, as the
hapless stud begins to twig that Something Is Not Right.
Doesn't usually take more than ten minutes to start seeing signs
of human habitation once headed toward the home patch from
the MOA. IP begins to wonder if Mexican Air Force
interceptors (T-28s) are warming up on the tarmac. Finally,
inevitably: "Doesn't much look like downtown Kingsville down
there, does it?" "No, sir." "Happen to notice the DME lately?"
Student notices that the numbers in Mickey's face are in high
double digits and getting bigger (it's only 100 miles from
NASKINGS to Nuevo Laredo). "Urk." The light dawning,
the stud finally looks at his wet compass and cross-checks
against the setting sun in front of him, says "Toto, I don't think
we're in Kansas any more," and pulls a fast 180. The recovery
was nominal from that point onward. He got a Below for SA
and an Above for making his instructor laugh.



Jeff

[Dudley Henriques]

I have always felt a sort of kinship with those IP's who took on initial
transition training for guys coming off the Tweet and into the Talon. The
girls used to say these guys had the fastest hands on the base. Little did
they know!! :-))
Dudley Henriques


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:38:16 -0500, "Dudley Henriques"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:00:26 -0600, "Danny Deger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>What is your favorite "lost" story?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Every IP knows that you have to let the students go a little bit, so
>>> that they can see the outcome of their errors and then the lesson is
>>> reinforced. The difficult judgement call is knowing how far to let
>>> them progress and still be able to make the recovery without damage to
>>> the airplane or the landscape.
>>
>>Correct of course...............and this can no doubt take on some real IP
>>"decision making moments" as he sits in the back of a T38 on final with a
>>student up front starting to develop a rather LARGE sink rate :-))))))
>>Dudley Henriques
>>
>
> I've not done the UPT thing in a T-38, but spent about 1500 hours (in
> .9 increments) as an IP (and IP's IP) in the AT-38 at Fighter Lead-In.
>
> Generally the landing wasn't much of an issue. The flight attitude
> would tell you most of what you needed to know--if you had the right
> pitch and the airspeed was ball park, you were OK. But, things happen
> occasionally.
>
> I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
> Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a Raven
> and was generally crazy, but a good aviator. First traffic pattern,
> just as you describe. He falls back on his old FAC flying patterns and
> goes to "flare"--not the thing to do, in the Talon which responded to
> holding constant attitude until entering ground effect and then when
> the airplane tries to lower the nose in response to the increased wing
> effectiveness, simply adding back pressure to hold the landing
> attitude.
>
> He flares at about 40 feet AGL. I sense impending doom and calmly
> adopt a mezzo-soprano tone as I scream "I've got it!" Grab the bird,
> freeze the stick and simultaneously reach for a yard of throttle.
> Bottom falls out, we impact and bounce into the air about 25 feet just
> in time for the burners to light and I gingerly milk it back into
> controlled flight.
>
> "Let's try another one, and this time lets do it like the briefing,
> OK?"
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Jay Honeck]

> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.

Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
will understand in another 20 years.

Pilot in 2027: "Lost? How could you ever get *lost*?"

:-)

(Actually, it's already true now -- but we all still remember "BG" --
Before GPS...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Kearton]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
> will understand in another 20 years.
>
> Pilot in 2027: "Lost? How could you ever get *lost*?"
>
> :-)
>
> (Actually, it's already true now -- but we all still remember "BG" --
> Before GPS...)



Post your GPS flat battery stories here ....



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
> will understand in another 20 years.
>
> Pilot in 2027: "Lost? How could you ever get *lost*?"

I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
lost!!!!! :-))))
Dudley Henriques

[Kev]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
> will understand in another 20 years.

Again? :-) I have an extensive collection (over 400) of air
navigation books.

1900s = we'd never get lost as soon as we had "lighthouse" balloons all
over.

1910s = we'd never get lost as soon as we had good compasses.

1920-30s = we'd never get lost with all the coming radio beacons.

1940s = we'd never get lost with a separate navigator on board.

1950s = we'd never get lost with a good autopilot.

1960-70s = even better beacons.

1980-now = gps

2020-xxx = ?? Probably ground guidance for everything :) Each plane
will be a remotely-piloted vehicle. The pilot can't get lost... he's
in a chair on the ground.

Cheers, Kev

[Steve Foley[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.

I was a student flying to Nashua, NH. My instructor asked me to drop him off
in Fitchburg so he could pick up another plane. As we were landing, I saw a
huge column of smoke right near the airport. One of the nearby factories was
burning.

I dropped off George, and departed on runway 34. My desired heading was 34
degrees, so I maintained runway heading. I even checked the compass a few
times and the DG, and sure enough, they read 34.

After 20 minutes or so, I didn't see anything familiar. That's when I
realized my mistake. (my course was 340, not 34). I figured I could fly
perpendicular to my intended course (124) and when the column of smoke from
Fitchburg was off my right wingtip, I could turn left to 34, and be back on
course. I did, and it worked out great.

When I returned and told my instructor about it, he congratulated me, but
said that he couldn't burn down a building every time I got lost.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
> lost!!!!! :-))))



I wish I could say the same. I've been LOST.

When I was a brand new pilot, I did a night VFR flight from Rock Hill, SC to
Wilmington, NC... at least that was where I wanted to go. Having very little TT
(less than 100 hours), I navigated the same as I did in daytime VFR. At least I
thought I did.

Basically you just flew at about 100 degrees until you got to Laurinburg, then
turned another 10 degrees or so to fly down the railroad tracks until you got to
Wilmington. What I hadn't figured was that most small towns look pretty much
the same at night and I couldn't see the damned tracks.

Anyway, I got to where I thought I should call Wilmington Approach to report I
was inbound for landing and said that I was about 25 miles to the west of the
airport. They gave me a squawk code and then radar identified me.... about 18
miles EAST of the airport. The next landfall would be the island of Bermuda.

Rather than test my swimming abilities to the max, I chose to take their offer
of radar vectors to the airport.

Embarassing, to say the least. I never again navigated by pilotage and /or dead
recconing at night again. From then on it was radio navigation for me at night.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[gatt]

"Kev" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> 2020-xxx = ?? Probably ground guidance for everything :) Each plane
> will be a remotely-piloted vehicle. The pilot can't get lost... he's
> in a chair on the ground.

At which point his video drivers will crash and he'll have to beg some
flight simulator geek on the usenet to help him land his plane. Or call
tech support:

"Please to uninstall and reinstall Windows 2020, update your video drivers
and reinstall your pilot software. If you continue to have difficult, send
an e-mail to and you will receive a reply within 24-48 hours. My name is
Nahasapeemepetilon. I hope you have been helpful to this."

-c

[Kyle Boatright]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>>
>> Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
>> will understand in another 20 years.
>>
>> Pilot in 2027: "Lost? How could you ever get *lost*?"
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> (Actually, it's already true now -- but we all still remember "BG" --
>> Before GPS...)
>
> Post your GPS flat battery stories here ....
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave Kearton

No problem.

Last summer, we were headed back to Atlanta from San Antonio, and were
dodging some pretty big weather in the process. Of course, the weather
avoidance put us in the proximity of a restricted area in Alabama, which I
was trying very hard to avoid.

And then I noticed that the information provided by the GPS didn't make any
sense. I was pretty sure I was holding the same heading I'd been maintaining
for a few minutes, but the GPS heading was off by 20 or 30 degrees and the
groundspeed was off by 50 knots. And the restricted area was getting
closer...

After a couple of minutes of consulting maps, repositioning the GPS antenna,
etc., I noticed that the portable MP3 player was sitting on the glareshield
right next to the GPS. Naah, couldn't be interference, I thought, but I
moved the MP3 player anyway.

The GPS started giving believable information, and things were right with
the world again. The missing 50 knots of groundspeed returned and I was
still clear of the restricted area.

Was I ever lost? Nope, but I was fairly concerned/confused for a couple of
minutes while I tried to sort out the situation.

It all proves that even a GPS isn't a good substitute for maintaining
situational awareness.

KB

[Kevin Clarke]

Danny Deger wrote:
> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>

First night cross country during my PPL training. Flew from KFIT to
KPSM, just over 50 nautical. No problem on the way up there. The return
was the issue.

Departed 34 out of KPSM for the trip back. I had all my wind correction
angle computed for the winds aloft, I had my way points and my timing
down for all that dead reckoning / pilotage stuff we all learn. I knew I
had to fly a course like 238 deg or something like that. I climbed to
altitude, picked up flight following to KFIT and saw the friendly
welcoming lights of the Mt. Wachusett ski area, it being winter and all.
The ski area is just to the west of KFIT. The mountain is always a
friendly beacon to steer towards. So I promptly forgot everything I had
preplanned and flew towards the lights.

I looked down at my DG several times, steering 270 due west. Hmmm. My
planning must have been off. Fly fly fly. Hmmm, I couldn't have been off
by that much, but those *must* be the lights. fly fly fly. Approach
comes on the radio ... Cessna November two zero four confirm
destination. Fitchburg two zero four.

Cessna two zero four, turn 50 deg left to 220, direct to Fitchburg.
Hmmm, ok. "two zero four 50 left", turn turn turn. Oh, those lights.
Sheepish grin.

My CFI sez, "I wondered when you were going to figure that out."

I guess they must have been the lights of a highway going over the hills
in NH towards VT, route 12 I guess.

Lesson learned.

KC

[Dave Kearton]

Kyle Boatright wrote:

>
> No problem.
>
> Last summer, we were headed back to Atlanta from San Antonio, and were
> dodging some pretty big weather in the process. Of course, the weather
> avoidance put us in the proximity of a restricted area in Alabama,
> which I was trying very hard to avoid.
>
> And then I noticed that the information provided by the GPS didn't
> make any sense. I was pretty sure I was holding the same heading I'd
> been maintaining for a few minutes, but the GPS heading was off by
> 20 or 30 degrees and the groundspeed was off by 50 knots. And the
> restricted area was getting closer...
>
> After a couple of minutes of consulting maps, repositioning the GPS
> antenna, etc., I noticed that the portable MP3 player was sitting on
> the glareshield right next to the GPS. Naah, couldn't be
> interference, I thought, but I moved the MP3 player anyway.
>
> The GPS started giving believable information, and things were right
> with the world again. The missing 50 knots of groundspeed returned
> and I was still clear of the restricted area.
>
> Was I ever lost? Nope, but I was fairly concerned/confused for a
> couple of minutes while I tried to sort out the situation.
>
> It all proves that even a GPS isn't a good substitute for maintaining
> situational awareness.
>
> KB



Absolutely. A few years ago, I was asked to source a reliable
distress system for a particular state capital's <can't name them> parking
inspectors.

Every once in a while, some moron would object to getting a ticket and try
to rough up the inspector. As it turns out, some of the 'sticker
lickers' welcomed the change in pace and could handle themselves quite well,
but there's only a few punters that you can flatten before your management
considers your career options.

A particular brand of phone was tried, 200 examples were purchased and
issued to the parking inspectors. As it happened, they worked fine
as a distress beacon - in the suburbs. In the high-rise parts of
town, in the back alleys and deep in the concrete jungle, these damned
phones could only ever see one or two satellites. So they reported
people in trouble in wheatfields 2-300km away.

Perhaps if they were fitted with a bayonet attachment .....


--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Steve Foley[_2_]]

"Kevin Clarke" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>picked up flight following to KFIT and saw the friendly welcoming lights of
>the Mt. Wachusett ski area, it being winter and all.

On my dual cross country, my instructor tried to get me to try to land on Mt
Wachusett's trail, telling me it was a runway.

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
> I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
> Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a **Raven**
> and was generally **crazy**, but a good aviator.

Sorry, but I can't resist. Does this make him a "Raven lunatic"?
Oz/Crash Lander

[Dave Kearton]

Crash Lander wrote:
> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
>> I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
>> Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a
>> **Raven** and was generally **crazy**, but a good aviator.
>
> Sorry, but I can't resist. Does this make him a "Raven lunatic"?
> Oz/Crash Lander



No, but if a nun starts sleepwalking, she's a roamin' Catholic.



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton < well HE started it ...>

[William Hughes]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:00:26 -0600, in rec.aviation.military "Danny
Deger" > wrote:

>What is your favorite "lost" story?

EC-130 Airborne Command Post, Nellis Ranges, about thirty years ago. I
was an enlisted swine (Life Support) who went along for the ride.
Boring, actually... flying around and around in a racetrack pattern
hour after hour after hour... zzzzzz.... Suddenly the all-hands
intercom clicks on and an aggrieved voice exclaims "I'm the navigator,
goddammit; I have a right to know where we are!"

This got everyone's attention. Are we not where we belong? Have we
strayed into a live-fire area? Finally the pilot comes up on the
intercom and reassures the crew that we are where we need to be.

Back then, the flight deck intercom had two switches: flight deck
only, which linked pilot (Capt.), copilot (1Lt.), navigator (Maj.) and
flight engineer (TSgt.), and "all-hands", which transmitted to
everybody in the aircraft (some enlisted, some junior officers, a
light colonel, two birds and a two-star, and your reporter, he of the
paired stripes).

Seems our navigator, having nothing to do, decides to kick back and
take a nap. Not usually a problem, since all we are doing is going
round and round and round... Anyway, he wakes up and asks the pilot
where we are, to which the pilot - being the sarcastic sod that he was
- replies "You don't need to know." Of course, our navigator is highly
offended at this, grabs the intercom to reply... and presses the wrong
switch.

Needless to say, the stars and birds were not amused. Heads did not
roll, but our intrepid flight crew was markedly subdued after the
postflight debrief.

The unit identification, and the names of those involved, will not be
revealed to protect the guilty.

--
William Hughes, San Antonio, Texas:
The Carrier Project: http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/carrier.htm
Support Project Valour-IT: http://soldiersangels.org/valour/index.html

[Dudley Henriques]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
>> lost!!!!! :-))))
>
>
>
> I wish I could say the same. I've been LOST.
>
> When I was a brand new pilot, I did a night VFR flight from Rock Hill, SC
> to Wilmington, NC... at least that was where I wanted to go. Having very
> little TT (less than 100 hours), I navigated the same as I did in daytime
> VFR. At least I thought I did.
>
> Basically you just flew at about 100 degrees until you got to Laurinburg,
> then turned another 10 degrees or so to fly down the railroad tracks until
> you got to Wilmington. What I hadn't figured was that most small towns
> look pretty much the same at night and I couldn't see the damned tracks.
>
> Anyway, I got to where I thought I should call Wilmington Approach to
> report I was inbound for landing and said that I was about 25 miles to the
> west of the airport. They gave me a squawk code and then radar identified
> me.... about 18 miles EAST of the airport. The next landfall would be the
> island of Bermuda.
>
> Rather than test my swimming abilities to the max, I chose to take their
> offer of radar vectors to the airport.
>
> Embarassing, to say the least. I never again navigated by pilotage and
> /or dead recconing at night again. From then on it was radio navigation
> for me at night.

I was just kidding Mort; Like everybody else out here I've pulled my share
of boners along the way to be sure :-)))
Dudley Henriques

[William Hughes]

On 8 Jan 2007 14:40:16 -0800, in rec.aviation.military "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
>Just think -- with the advent of GPS, this is one thread that no one
>will understand in another 20 years.
>
>Pilot in 2027: "Lost? How could you ever get *lost*?"
>
>:-)
>
>(Actually, it's already true now -- but we all still remember "BG" --
>Before GPS...)

One of the reasons I joined the Air Force, rather than the Navy. We
like our airfields to stay where we left 'em...

--
William Hughes, San Antonio, Texas:
The Carrier Project: http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/carrier.htm
Support Project Valour-IT: http://soldiersangels.org/valour/index.html

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
...
>> Sorry, but I can't resist. Does this make him a "Raven lunatic"?
>> Oz/Crash Lander

> No, but if a nun starts sleepwalking, she's a roamin' Catholic.

Boom, Boom! ;-)
Oz/Crash Lander

[Jay Honeck]

> 2020-xxx = ?? Probably ground guidance for everything :) Each plane
> will be a remotely-piloted vehicle. The pilot can't get lost... he's
> in a chair on the ground.

Good God! You mean....(wait for it)....Mxsmanic rules!?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Kevin Clarke" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Danny Deger wrote:
>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>>
>
> First night cross country during my PPL training. Flew from KFIT to KPSM,
> just over 50 nautical. No problem on the way up there. The return was the
> issue.

The way I figgure it, as long as you end up at home in the end, you weren't
really lost.

I did get the "you don't have any idea where you are, do you?" from my CFI
on that first night Cross country...

For some reason, My dad and I had flown up to visit my brother at Ann Arbor
Mi (ARB) and my brother and I decided to go for a ride. (Dad stayed behind)
we flew off westish for a while just dinking around. My brother says
something about heading back so I turn east and off on the horizon, I see an
airport. Ok, that's easy. I head thataway. 5 miles out, call the tower, "Ann
Arbor Tower, Cessna xxx 5 west..." They reply to report 1 mile west (or
something like that) - Ok, I report, they don't have me in sight, but tell
me to report down wind. I go to turn downwind, but something doesn't seem
right. I report downwind, and they still don't have mei n sight they keep
asking where I'm at. And I'm sitting there - like - how can they not see me,
I'm on downwind for crying out loud. Then I look down at the airport - wait,
this isn't right. ****! I'm in the pattern at Willow Run (YIP). yank out the
chart, change frequency, "Willow tower, Cessna xxx I'm downwind at the wrong
airport - I'm outta here. Sorry"...

The funny thing is that my brother never said a thing. One of these days I
should ask him why - he's a lot better pilot than I am, it doesn't seem that
both of us would have made the same mistake. He was probably just waiting
for me to figgure out my mistake.

When we got back to ARB, met up with dad, we find out that, having nothing
to do, he had talked his way into the tower and was listening to the whole
thing. Apparently the controllers thought it was funny.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Typhoon502]

Kyle Boatright wrote:

> The GPS started giving believable information, and things were right with
> the world again.
>
> It all proves that even a GPS isn't a good substitute for maintaining
> situational awareness.

My satnav is configured to give me a dot indicating the actual GPS
placement along with the directional arrow that the system software
snaps to the road that it thinks you're on (this is how most car
systems work), and you'd be surprised at how often the map data isn't
quite correct. A section of Rt. 50 in DC Metro is mapped offset
probably 100 feet from where the road actually is, for example...my nav
would show me on the wrong side of the divided 6-lane for about 1/4
mile or so.

[Christopher Brian Colohan]

"Typhoon502" > writes:
> My satnav is configured to give me a dot indicating the actual GPS
> placement along with the directional arrow that the system software
> snaps to the road that it thinks you're on (this is how most car
> systems work), and you'd be surprised at how often the map data isn't
> quite correct. A section of Rt. 50 in DC Metro is mapped offset
> probably 100 feet from where the road actually is, for example...my nav
> would show me on the wrong side of the divided 6-lane for about 1/4
> mile or so.

I drove up to Prince Edward Island over the holidays. For the first
10km or so of driving over the Confederation bridge my GPS was
convinced I had turned my car into a boat and was driving through the
Atlantic ocean about 1km west of the bridge... It was quite amusing
to watch. (And no, it was not a temporary glitch -- I saw the same
error on the return trip.)

Chris

[GeorgeC]

Someone ask Davy Crockett if he had ever been lost?
Davy said "Nope I've never been lost, but I was a mite confused for about two
weeks."

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:53:38 -0500, "Dudley Henriques" >
wrote:


>I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
>lost!!!!! :-))))
>Dudley Henriques


GeorgeC

[Danny Deger]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>

Here is my second lost story:

I was cross country in the heart land of America in my trusty Taylorcraft.
I was using pilotage and dead reckoning. I got site of an east/west road
that ran about 3 miles south of my refueling stop. My destination was just
on the other side of the next sectional map, so I put down the one I was
currently using. I didn't need it anymore, I could just follow the road.

I spotted my airport, so I landed and refueled. I got back in the plane and
took off heading east.

In about 10 miles I spotted an airport that was about 3 miles north of the
east west road. Unfortunally there was no airport in the map. I became
concerned and started to rectify the situation. For some reason, I looked
at the sectional I had just left and noticed an airport about 3 miles north
of the east west road. This airport was about 5 miles from the east edge of
the map and had a single north/south runway, just like the airport I had
just "left".

It suddenly occurred to me that I had landed at the wrong airport, bought
gas, filed a flight plan, checked weather, etc. and didn't know I was
"lost". It was only after I was airborne that I realized I had landed at
the wrong airport. Man did I feel stupid.

Danny Deger

[leadfoot]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
> ...
>> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>> I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
>>> lost!!!!! :-))))
>>
>>
>>
>> I wish I could say the same. I've been LOST.
>>
>> When I was a brand new pilot, I did a night VFR flight from Rock Hill, SC
>> to Wilmington, NC... at least that was where I wanted to go. Having very
>> little TT (less than 100 hours), I navigated the same as I did in daytime
>> VFR. At least I thought I did.
>>
>> Basically you just flew at about 100 degrees until you got to Laurinburg,
>> then turned another 10 degrees or so to fly down the railroad tracks
>> until you got to Wilmington. What I hadn't figured was that most small
>> towns look pretty much the same at night and I couldn't see the damned
>> tracks.
>>
>> Anyway, I got to where I thought I should call Wilmington Approach to
>> report I was inbound for landing and said that I was about 25 miles to
>> the west of the airport. They gave me a squawk code and then radar
>> identified me.... about 18 miles EAST of the airport. The next landfall
>> would be the island of Bermuda.
>>
>> Rather than test my swimming abilities to the max, I chose to take their
>> offer of radar vectors to the airport.
>>
>> Embarassing, to say the least. I never again navigated by pilotage and
>> /or dead recconing at night again. From then on it was radio navigation
>> for me at night.
>
> I was just kidding Mort; Like everybody else out here I've pulled my share
> of boners along the way to be sure :-)))
> Dudley Henrique

>>> I've NEVER been lost. I've been "temporarily disoriented", but NEVER
>>> lost!!!!! :-))))




I beleive the original quote belongs to Daniel Boone

can't say as ever I was lost,
but I was bewildered once for three days.


>
>

[Dan[_2_]]

Dave Kearton wrote:
> Crash Lander wrote:
>> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
>>> I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
>>> Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a
>>> **Raven** and was generally **crazy**, but a good aviator.
>> Sorry, but I can't resist. Does this make him a "Raven lunatic"?
>> Oz/Crash Lander
>
>
>
> No, but if a nun starts sleepwalking, she's a roamin' Catholic.
>
>
>
The pope says it's OK to kiss nuns as long as you don't get into the habit.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[John Clear]

In article >,
Danny Deger > wrote:
>Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>

On my long cross country (Aertz (Lafayette, IN) to Springfield, IL
to Lawerenceville, IN), on the Springfield to Lawerenceville leg,
I applied the magentic variation wrong. It should have been +3
and I did -3 (or something like that, it has been 15 years).
Since I was close to on course, I made my first few checkpoints,
but after awhile, the few landmarks that exist in that area weren't
matching up with the charts. I happened to fly over an airport
with multiple runways, and comparing the layout to airports on the
chart, was able to figure out where I was.

And then on the Lawernceville to Aertz leg, I had a NMAC with a
bizjet at 10,500ft. Lots of learning on that one flight.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[guy]

Danny Deger wrote:
> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> My first one is "The lake that shouldn't be there". I was flying from north
> of the Dallas/Fort Worth area to my home port of Luck Field which is south
> of Fort Worth. No radios of any type in my little Taylorcraft. All was
> well. A nice day with reasonable visibility. Some haze but strong VFR.
>
> About halfway to Dallas I come over a lake. A big lake. One that would be
> HUGE on my sectional. It was not on the map. I had just been flying for
> about 45 minutes on a magnetic heading and keeping close track of time.
> There was NO way this lake could be on the ground but not on my map. The
> vis was such I couldn't see the buildings of Dallas or Fort Worth. I was
> convinced somehow I had gotten lost. I thought maybe the compass was stuck
> on the wrong heading. I did a couple of small turns to see if the compass
> moved. The compass passed this test.
>
> But my training kicked in -- if in doubt, fly the heading needed and keep
> track of time. I did this. After about 20 minutes I got to another lake
> and this one was on the map. I was on course.
>
> It turns out my mystery lake was new and not on the maps yet. My map was
> current. I swear it was. I never use out of date maps. That's my story
> and I am sticking to it :-)
>
> Anyway I was where I thought I was, but very concerned for a while when I
> saw that damned lake under me that wasn't supposed to be there.
>
> What is your favorite "lost" story?
>
> Danny Deger

Not lost but terrain avoidance of a sort...

RAF Shackleton on a long transit flight - point A to point B - straight
line - Very bored Navigator.

Nav has some lunch.

Course alteration 90 deg Port

Course alteration 90 deg Starboard

Course alteration 90 deg Starboard

Course alteration 90 deg Port

The Log entry read 'altered course to avoid baked bean'

guy

[nmg175]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>>
>
> Here is my second lost story:
>
.. Man did I feel stupid.
>
> Danny Deger

"Feel"?
>
>

[d&tm]

"John Clear" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Danny Deger > wrote:
> >Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
> >
>
> On my long cross country (Aertz (Lafayette, IN) to Springfield, IL
> to Lawerenceville, IN), on the Springfield to Lawerenceville leg,
> I applied the magentic variation wrong. It should have been +3
> and I did -3 (or something like that, it has been 15 years).
> Since I was close to on course, I made my first few checkpoints,
> but after awhile, the few landmarks that exist in that area weren't
> matching up with the charts. I happened to fly over an airport
> with multiple runways, and comparing the layout to airports on the
> chart, was able to figure out where I was.
>
> And then on the Lawernceville to Aertz leg, I had a NMAC with a
> bizjet at 10,500ft. Lots of learning on that one flight.
>
> John
> --
> John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/


Lost story of a somewhat more serious nature. In 1981 a Cessna 210 with 5
POB was lost in bad weather over land ( thick forest) in Australia, never
to be seen again, despite regular searches to this day. I believe it is
the only aircraft lost on land in Aus never to be found. There was another
case of an aircraft lost for 30 odd years and found by a forest worker on
the side of a mountain. I know several aircraft have gone missing without
trace in New Zealand. What about the USA? any dissapeared definately over
land without trace? It is hard to imagine in this day and age that this can
still happen. Over water i can understantd
terry
ppl downunder

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

nmg175 wrote:
>> Here is my second lost story:
>>
> . Man did I feel stupid.
>>
>> Danny Deger
>
> "Feel"?


Man, you're not going to get much true confession around here if you bust their
balls. Confession is good for the soul. Busted balls are.... different.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[mad8]

> Danny Deger > wrote:
>Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.

what's annoying is that rec.aviation.stories is (almost) completely
empty because of moderation...

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "d&tm" > said:
>Lost story of a somewhat more serious nature. In 1981 a Cessna 210 with 5
>POB was lost in bad weather over land ( thick forest) in Australia, never
>to be seen again, despite regular searches to this day. I believe it is
>the only aircraft lost on land in Aus never to be found. There was another
>case of an aircraft lost for 30 odd years and found by a forest worker on
>the side of a mountain. I know several aircraft have gone missing without
>trace in New Zealand. What about the USA? any dissapeared definately over
>land without trace? It is hard to imagine in this day and age that this can
>still happen. Over water i can understantd

There was that Lear that disappeared in Lebanon New Hampshire while on an
IFR approach on Christmas Eve that wasn't found for some years afterwards.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Medication did wonders for me, Dave. Perhaps it could for you, if a
crowbar and half a pound of axle grease counts as medication.
-- Red Drag Diva

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "guy" > said:
>Not lost but terrain avoidance of a sort...
>
>RAF Shackleton on a long transit flight - point A to point B - straight
>line - Very bored Navigator.
>
>Nav has some lunch.
>
>Course alteration 90 deg Port
>
>Course alteration 90 deg Starboard
>
>Course alteration 90 deg Starboard
>
>Course alteration 90 deg Port
>
>The Log entry read 'altered course to avoid baked bean'

So of like the "no **** story" I heard some years ago. Navigator says
"change course 1 degree to port". Pilot says "I can't change course 1
degree". Navigator says "change course 5 degrees to starboard", and pilot
complies. Then the navigator immediately says "change course 6 degrees to
port".


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish. And if he can't
be bothered to learn to fish and starves to death, that's a good enough
outcome for me. -- Steve VanDevender

[Matt Barrow]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "d&tm" > said:
>>Lost story of a somewhat more serious nature. In 1981 a Cessna 210 with 5
>>POB was lost in bad weather over land ( thick forest) in Australia, never
>>to be seen again, despite regular searches to this day. I believe it is
>>the only aircraft lost on land in Aus never to be found. There was another
>>case of an aircraft lost for 30 odd years and found by a forest worker on
>>the side of a mountain. I know several aircraft have gone missing
>>without
>>trace in New Zealand. What about the USA? any dissapeared definately
>>over
>>land without trace? It is hard to imagine in this day and age that this
>>can
>>still happen. Over water i can understantd
>
> There was that Lear that disappeared in Lebanon New Hampshire while on an
> IFR approach on Christmas Eve that wasn't found for some years afterwards.
>

There was the story a year or so ago about the aircraft lost in 1942 and
just found up in the glacial area of the Sierra Nevada range. The lone body
recovered was remarkably well preserved from being frozen for over 60 years.

[Matt Barrow]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> So of like the "no **** story" I heard some years ago. Navigator says
> "change course 1 degree to port". Pilot says "I can't change course 1
> degree". Navigator says "change course 5 degrees to starboard", and pilot
> complies. Then the navigator immediately says "change course 6 degrees to
> port".

That's they way they did radar vectors in the old days (still??) when the
adjustment was only a degree or two.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[John T]

mad8 wrote:
>
> what's annoying is that rec.aviation.stories is (almost) completely
> empty because of moderation...

Is this before or after Larry's recent appointment?

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[nmg175]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> nmg175 wrote:
>>> Here is my second lost story:
>>>
>> . Man did I feel stupid.
>>>
>>> Danny Deger
>>
>> "Feel"?
>
>
> Man, you're not going to get much true confession around here if you bust
> their balls. Confession is good for the soul. Busted balls are....
> different.
>
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Okay, here's mine-

Flying out of Flushing Field, New York, in a Waco UPF-7, I wandered over to
CT.

The gen then, was in case of confusion, dive down and read the name of the
Town painted on the Water Tower. Re-orient and go home.

Dove down, over this CT Town, no name on the Water Tower!

At the road intersection, in the center of Town, there was painted on the
surface, the name of the Town, I thought.

Being too young to drive a car, 18 in NY, I was completely ignorant of road
signs.

Climbed up and spent 3 or 4 circles, looking on my Sectional for the CT Town
of GOSLOW.

Eventually the light came on, realized what it meant, flew to next Town,
identified it from their Water Tower and safely returned to Speeds Flying
Service.

That was 66 years ago, but can still hear the guys laughing when I recounted
the story.

[Larry Dighera]

On 9 Jan 2007 06:30:57 -0800, "mad8" > wrote in
m>:

>what's annoying is that rec.aviation.stories is (almost) completely
>empty because of moderation...

What lead you to that conclusion?

Have you considered submitting your literary works? Try it; you may
be surprised.

[Ed Rasimus[_1_]]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:51:39 -0700, "Jeff Crowell"
> wrote:


>Didn't happen to me, but to a friend while we were in Basic
>Jet in Kingsville, TX. Late in the Fam series, one each student
>and IP in a Tango Two, IP in the back. There was a dingus
>back there which let the IP slew the directional gyro in order to
>test the S.A. of the stud up front. Approaching the end of the
>hop, said IP applied said dingus, and said "let's go home."
>

I've often commented on the "every German goes to Zippers" program
that was ongoing at Willy Air Patch when I was a student.

We had one of the less gifted Luftwaffe types--a 1/Lt and therefore
class commander of his section. On an area solo in the T-37, late in
the afternoon he was doing prescribed acro and maneuvers. When it came
time to come home, his DG had precessed about 30 degrees. He headed
back on compass heading into the setting Arizona sun.

When he started looking for the turn point to head north to the San
Tan mountains and the pattern entry point, he had flown past Coolidge
AZ and mis-identified Casa Grande as the town. Shortly thereafter when
he didn't find the mountains, he went back to start over. Getting
darker by this time.

Finally he admitted being lost and called up Phoenix FSS for a
"practice DF steer"--something that had been demo'ed for him the week
before. (T-37s did not have transponders in those days.) The FSS tell
him they don't do night practice DFs. He says, "give me one of the
other kind."

Successive DF cuts and an obvious compass error finally gets the DF
controller to head him properly north. Now fuel is becoming a factor
and the sun has set. Really dark out. We hadn't yet reached the night
flying phase of training.

"What do you see?" the controller asks.

"Lots of lights"--i.e. Phoenix.

"Head slightly right of the lights. Tell me what you see."

"Now I see a green and split-white beacon." (A military airfield.)

"That's Williams. Head that way. Contact Williams tower."

Tower sees his lights.He sees the base. Fuel is 75 pounds. Wing DO is
on the radio. DO says "bottom your seat and stow lose equipment."

Student complies, then reality dawns and he says, "it's not yet time
for bailing out, it's time for SFO" (simulated flame-out landing
pattern)

We students in the flight room have heard of Artur's plight, so we run
out onto the flightline. Pitch dark. A flashing beacon and nav lights
appear overhead--no engine noise. A weird whistling of wind over metal
wings, usually masked by the howl of two J-69-T-25 Continentals.

He circles and lands out of an ACTUAL flameout pattern. Logs 2 hours
and 27 minutes of flying time--usual mission duration is about an hour
less.

Research of his gradebook shows previous attempts at 13 SFOs with only
one accomplished successfully. Record of actual flameouts is 100%.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[KP[_1_]]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So of like the "no **** story" I heard some years ago. Navigator says
>> "change course 1 degree to port". Pilot says "I can't change course 1
>> degree". Navigator says "change course 5 degrees to starboard", and
>> pilot
>> complies. Then the navigator immediately says "change course 6 degrees
>> to
>> port".
>
> That's they way they did radar vectors in the old days (still??) when the
> adjustment was only a degree or two.
>
> --
> Matt
> ---------------------
> Matthew W. Barrow
> Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
> Montrose, CO (MTJ)
>

Yeah, I was always taught that you couldn't (shouldn't) give a one degree
turn on a PAR or ASR. Rather turn three degrees one way and two back.

When I asked why I was told the stick actuator couldn't do it or it was
easier for him.

Always thought that was BS.

Either because it wasn't up to me to decide what he was capable of doing or
if it really was easier he'd already know that and do it on his own to get
to the assigned heading.

Then there were always the issues of whether the hold-on heading really was
just one degree off or whether the guy could fly within one degree in the
first place. The old measuring with a micrometer and cutting with a
chainsaw thing.

But if you want to pass your rating eval you stick to the conventional
wisdom (at least until you're working on your own ticket ;-)

[Danny Deger]

"nmg175" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>>>
>>
>> Here is my second lost story:
>>
> . Man did I feel stupid.
>>
>> Danny Deger
>
> "Feel"?
>>

OK. Let's be nice :-)

Danny Deger

[W. D. Allen]

Speaking of flameouts - we nuggets were trying out our brand new North
American FJ-3D Furys out of Barbers Point NAS when the Hawaii Air National
Guard jumped us. While they were demonstrating how to turn and burn in swept
wing fighters one of us (who shall remain unnamed) flames out. But his fuel
gage still showed 600 lb fuel. Tried three air restarts while proceeding to
the high key over Barbers Point. No luck.

By this time everybody in the air was giving advice on how to get on the
ground in one piece. Nevertheless, the letdown, touchdown, and rollout were
exemplary (naturally). Said pilot was a hero for all of five minutes until
the ops officer crawled into the cockpit to check the fuel switch setting.
Yes there was 600 lb. of fuel on board but it was all in the aft tank and
the aft tank had NOT been hooked up when the tail had been reinstalled after
an engine check. With the fuel switch set on sump only instead of sump and
aft our intrepid aviator would have known when it was time of head for the
barn.

Barrier crash story later

WDA
CDR USN Ret.
InFamous Fury Flyer

end

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:51:39 -0700, "Jeff Crowell"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Didn't happen to me, but to a friend while we were in Basic
>>Jet in Kingsville, TX. Late in the Fam series, one each student
>>and IP in a Tango Two, IP in the back. There was a dingus
>>back there which let the IP slew the directional gyro in order to
>>test the S.A. of the stud up front. Approaching the end of the
>>hop, said IP applied said dingus, and said "let's go home."
>>
>
> I've often commented on the "every German goes to Zippers" program
> that was ongoing at Willy Air Patch when I was a student.
>
> We had one of the less gifted Luftwaffe types--a 1/Lt and therefore
> class commander of his section. On an area solo in the T-37, late in
> the afternoon he was doing prescribed acro and maneuvers. When it came
> time to come home, his DG had precessed about 30 degrees. He headed
> back on compass heading into the setting Arizona sun.
>
> When he started looking for the turn point to head north to the San
> Tan mountains and the pattern entry point, he had flown past Coolidge
> AZ and mis-identified Casa Grande as the town. Shortly thereafter when
> he didn't find the mountains, he went back to start over. Getting
> darker by this time.
>
> Finally he admitted being lost and called up Phoenix FSS for a
> "practice DF steer"--something that had been demo'ed for him the week
> before. (T-37s did not have transponders in those days.) The FSS tell
> him they don't do night practice DFs. He says, "give me one of the
> other kind."
>
> Successive DF cuts and an obvious compass error finally gets the DF
> controller to head him properly north. Now fuel is becoming a factor
> and the sun has set. Really dark out. We hadn't yet reached the night
> flying phase of training.
>
> "What do you see?" the controller asks.
>
> "Lots of lights"--i.e. Phoenix.
>
> "Head slightly right of the lights. Tell me what you see."
>
> "Now I see a green and split-white beacon." (A military airfield.)
>
> "That's Williams. Head that way. Contact Williams tower."
>
> Tower sees his lights.He sees the base. Fuel is 75 pounds. Wing DO is
> on the radio. DO says "bottom your seat and stow lose equipment."
>
> Student complies, then reality dawns and he says, "it's not yet time
> for bailing out, it's time for SFO" (simulated flame-out landing
> pattern)
>
> We students in the flight room have heard of Artur's plight, so we run
> out onto the flightline. Pitch dark. A flashing beacon and nav lights
> appear overhead--no engine noise. A weird whistling of wind over metal
> wings, usually masked by the howl of two J-69-T-25 Continentals.
>
> He circles and lands out of an ACTUAL flameout pattern. Logs 2 hours
> and 27 minutes of flying time--usual mission duration is about an hour
> less.
>
> Research of his gradebook shows previous attempts at 13 SFOs with only
> one accomplished successfully. Record of actual flameouts is 100%.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 1257 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"mad8" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
>> Danny Deger > wrote:
>>Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>
> what's annoying is that rec.aviation.stories is (almost) completely
> empty because of moderation...
>

It was empty for a long time for lack of a moderator. But, that problem has
been recently rectified. I was thinking myself that that is where this
thread should have been.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Jose[_1_]]

> With the fuel switch set on sump only instead of sump and
> aft our intrepid aviator would have known when it was time of head for the
> barn.

I'm not sure what this means.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[mah]

Dan wrote:
>
> Dave Kearton wrote:
> > Crash Lander wrote:
> >> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
> >>> I had an old friend who had been a UPT student of mine, come through
> >>> Holloman for a fast jet requal after a staff job. He'd been a
> >>> **Raven** and was generally **crazy**, but a good aviator.
> >> Sorry, but I can't resist. Does this make him a "Raven lunatic"?
> >> Oz/Crash Lander
> >
> >
> >
> > No, but if a nun starts sleepwalking, she's a roamin' Catholic.
> >
> >
> >
> The pope says it's OK to kiss nuns as long as you don't get into the habit.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Thank you for coming to amateur comedy night and don't forget to tip
your waitress.

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:13:36 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in
>:

>"mad8" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>>
>>> Danny Deger > wrote:
>>>Post your lost story here, so we can all laugh at them.
>>
>> what's annoying is that rec.aviation.stories is (almost) completely
>> empty because of moderation...
>>
>
>It was empty for a long time for lack of a moderator. But, that problem has
>been recently rectified. I was thinking myself that that is where this
>thread should have been.

The rec.aviation.stories newsgroup is not for follow up discussion, so
it may not have been the right forum for this thread depending on what
the OP had in mind when he started this message thread.

Here's some information about the rec.aviation.stories newsgroup as
written by the late Mr. Geoff Peck creator of the rec.aviation.*
newsgroup hierarchy:

CHARTER
-------
rec.aviation.stories (MODERATED)
A home for one of the greatest strengths of rec.aviation --
longer postings of stories and experiences, including
descriptions of cross-country trips, "I learned about flying from
that", airshow reports, and so on. The moderator will reject
shorter articles and subjects which aren't appropriate to the
group, and will ensure that articles meet minimum readability
standards (i.e., line lengths).

Follow-ups will be directed to other groups. It is expected that
this group will typically contain only one or two articles a
week.

Articles for anonymous posting will be accepted.

....

rec.aviation.stories
A number of netters brought up this group as a very strong desire
at Oshkosh. People felt that one of the greatest strengths of
the net was the "I was there" stories -- stories which are very
different from the semi-sanitized accounts one sees in commercial
magazines. The desire was to have a forum for these longer
stories, one in which (a) it could be ensured that they'd be
easily found, (b) they wouldn't be intermixed with other stuff,
and (c) they wouldn't get drowned out by follow-ups.

A moderated newsgroup makes sense in this case, and also will
allow a final formatting check to be done to ensure that the
articles are easy to read (line lengths, etc.).

....

Q: "Why _three_ moderated groups?"

A: The three groups serve quite distinct purposes. Most readers
will probably place .announce near the top of their reading
lists, since it will be low-volume and will contain short
articles. Readers will accord .stories a special place, since
they'll want to take the time to sit down and enjoy the few
articles which are posted to that group. And readers will want
to consult .answers when they have a particular question which
they may guess has been asked before -- or when they wish to
start exploring a new area.

Q: "Why aren't there more moderated groups?"

A: I believe that on the most part that we have a really good
group of individuals on the net, and trust them to post
appropriately. Sometimes, this doesn't happen, but this is
relatively rare. In my opinion, a group should be moderated only
when the group's charter inherently requires careful filtering of
content -- announcements (i.e., rec.aviation.events), automated
dissemination (rec.aviation.answers), editing
(rec.aviation.digest), or editorial style control
(rec.aviation.stories). Ideally, a moderated group would
should [sic] sufficiently low traffic that most readers are happy
to read it first -- before any unmoderated groups.

An alternative philosophy to group moderation is to use it as a
mechanism to reduce "noisy" posts. One caveat here is that one's
person signal may be another person's noise. If a group which is
created by this re-organization turns out to be "noisy", an
RFD/CFV can be done to convert that troup [sic] to moderated. I
suggest that it's preferable to try most groups as an unmoderated
group first and see if (a) moderation is _really_ necessary and
(b) a moderator volunteers.
....

[Jim Logajan]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> The rec.aviation.stories newsgroup is not for follow up discussion, so
> it may not have been the right forum for this thread depending on what
> the OP had in mind when he started this message thread.

You can of course modify the charter or try experimental (i.e. temporary)
changes to the charter if you feel it would be useful. As moderator you
pretty much "own" the group.

The stories group appears to have been dormant many years before the
original moderator died. Perhaps allowing follow-ups might be useful - in
this case the thread itself was a call for stories and it appears most of
them would have been appropriate to that group. IMHO I suspect the original
r.a.s charter was flawed - shorter stories should have been allowed as well
as follow-ups.

[[email protected]]

I've heard of a few airplanes lost in Canada that still haven't been
recovered, and there are many in the US and Canada in the rockies that
have been found... but are so inaccesible that they will never be
brought back.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:31:32 -0000, Jim Logajan > wrote in >:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> The rec.aviation.stories newsgroup is not for follow up discussion, so
>> it may not have been the right forum for this thread depending on what
>> the OP had in mind when he started this message thread.

>You can of course modify the charter or try experimental (i.e. temporary)
>changes to the charter if you feel it would be useful. As moderator you
>pretty much "own" the group.

>The stories group appears to have been dormant many years before the
>original moderator died. Perhaps allowing follow-ups might be useful - in
>this case the thread itself was a call for stories and it appears most of
>them would have been appropriate to that group. IMHO I suspect the original
>r.a.s charter was flawed - shorter stories should have been allowed as well
>as follow-ups.

Jim is a longtime Usenet moderator. He knows more
about this stuff than I do.

He's 100% right.

You're free to modify the policies of the group
as time goes on.

See what works.

A newsgroup with no news is no fun. :o(

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[[email protected]]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

> When we got back to ARB, met up with dad, we find out that, having nothing
> to do, he had talked his way into the tower and was listening to the whole
> thing. Apparently the controllers thought it was funny.

A good Dad always finds out!!!

[[email protected]]

leadfoot wrote:

> I beleive the original quote belongs to Daniel Boone
>
> can't say as ever I was lost,
> but I was bewildered once for three days.

You mean they were BOTH lost? What're the odds of that?

[[email protected]]

John Clear wrote:

> On my long cross country (Aertz (Lafayette, IN) to Springfield, IL
> to Lawerenceville, IN), on the Springfield to Lawerenceville leg,
> I applied the magentic variation wrong.

I did my ASEL training out of San Antonio TX. During one of my long
cross-countries, I read my next heading from the wrong column, so I was
off course by the amount of the windage. I got to where the small town
of Three Rivers was, but it wasn't.

Now, I wasn't really lost. Honest! And I had a couple or three
methods of getting unlost pretty easily. One method I had never used
was talking to Center and asking for assistance. So I did that--just
for the practice, mind you. They didn't seem busy, so I called up with
a bit of levity (I think).

"Houston Center, Cessna 123. Student pilot. I'm looking for Three
Rivers. They moved it before I got here. Do you know which way it
went?"

I heard him chuckle, and I got my assistance.

[Gernot Hassenpflug]

Ed Rasimus > writes:

> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:51:39 -0700, "Jeff Crowell"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Didn't happen to me, but to a friend while we were in Basic
>>Jet in Kingsville, TX. Late in the Fam series, one each student
>>and IP in a Tango Two, IP in the back. There was a dingus
>>back there which let the IP slew the directional gyro in order to
>>test the S.A. of the stud up front. Approaching the end of the
>>hop, said IP applied said dingus, and said "let's go home."
>>
>
> I've often commented on the "every German goes to Zippers" program
> that was ongoing at Willy Air Patch when I was a student.
>
> We had one of the less gifted Luftwaffe types--a 1/Lt and therefore
> class commander of his section. On an area solo in the T-37, late in
> the afternoon he was doing prescribed acro and maneuvers. When it came
> time to come home, his DG had precessed about 30 degrees. He headed
> back on compass heading into the setting Arizona sun.
>
> When he started looking for the turn point to head north to the San
> Tan mountains and the pattern entry point, he had flown past Coolidge
> AZ and mis-identified Casa Grande as the town. Shortly thereafter when
> he didn't find the mountains, he went back to start over. Getting
> darker by this time.
>
> Finally he admitted being lost and called up Phoenix FSS for a
> "practice DF steer"--something that had been demo'ed for him the week
> before. (T-37s did not have transponders in those days.) The FSS tell
> him they don't do night practice DFs. He says, "give me one of the
> other kind."
>
> Successive DF cuts and an obvious compass error finally gets the DF
> controller to head him properly north. Now fuel is becoming a factor
> and the sun has set. Really dark out. We hadn't yet reached the night
> flying phase of training.
>
> "What do you see?" the controller asks.
>
> "Lots of lights"--i.e. Phoenix.
>
> "Head slightly right of the lights. Tell me what you see."
>
> "Now I see a green and split-white beacon." (A military airfield.)
>
> "That's Williams. Head that way. Contact Williams tower."
>
> Tower sees his lights.He sees the base. Fuel is 75 pounds. Wing DO is
> on the radio. DO says "bottom your seat and stow lose equipment."
>
> Student complies, then reality dawns and he says, "it's not yet time
> for bailing out, it's time for SFO" (simulated flame-out landing
> pattern)
>
> We students in the flight room have heard of Artur's plight, so we run
> out onto the flightline. Pitch dark. A flashing beacon and nav lights
> appear overhead--no engine noise. A weird whistling of wind over metal
> wings, usually masked by the howl of two J-69-T-25 Continentals.
>
> He circles and lands out of an ACTUAL flameout pattern. Logs 2 hours
> and 27 minutes of flying time--usual mission duration is about an hour
> less.
>
> Research of his gradebook shows previous attempts at 13 SFOs with only
> one accomplished successfully. Record of actual flameouts is 100%.

Great story. Sadly I am not a pilot, but can imagine how at times like
the students' SA and neuropathways explode and gear shift several
notches higher, never to come down again!
--
Debian Hint #13: If you don't like the default options used in a Debian
package, you can download the source and build a version which uses the
options you prefer. See http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkg_basics.html
(sections 6.13 and 6.14) for more information.

However, bear in mind that most options in most packages can be configured
at runtime, and do not require recompiling the package.

[Matt Barrow]

"nmg175" > wrote in message
. ..
> Okay, here's mine-
>
> Flying out of Flushing Field, New York, in a Waco UPF-7, I wandered over
> to CT.
>
> The gen then, was in case of confusion, dive down and read the name of the
> Town painted on the Water Tower. Re-orient and go home.
>
> Dove down, over this CT Town, no name on the Water Tower!
>
> At the road intersection, in the center of Town, there was painted on the
> surface, the name of the Town, I thought.
>
> Being too young to drive a car, 18 in NY, I was completely ignorant of
> road signs.
>
> Climbed up and spent 3 or 4 circles, looking on my Sectional for the CT
> Town of GOSLOW.
>
> Eventually the light came on, realized what it meant, flew to next Town,
> identified it from their Water Tower and safely returned to Speeds Flying
> Service.
>
> That was 66 years ago, but can still hear the guys laughing when I
> recounted the story.
>
And 66 years later as well!!

Thanks for the chuckle,


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:31:32 -0000, Jim Logajan >
wrote in >:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> The rec.aviation.stories newsgroup is not for follow up discussion, so
>> it may not have been the right forum for this thread depending on what
>> the OP had in mind when he started this message thread.
>
>You can of course modify the charter or try experimental (i.e. temporary)
>changes to the charter if you feel it would be useful. As moderator you
>pretty much "own" the group.

That's the way I understand it too. But I think I'll stick with the
original charter until a need to deviate presents itself.

>The stories group appears to have been dormant many years before the
>original moderator died.

I believe that was due to Mr. Peck's lack of performing moderation
duties during that period. I know I submitted stories, and they went
into a black hole without any response.

>Perhaps allowing follow-ups might be useful - in
>this case the thread itself was a call for stories and it appears most of
>them would have been appropriate to that group.

If anyone would like to publish their stories posted to this message
thread, they can do so by posting them to rec.aviation.stories. They
might even consider crossposting them to both newsgroups.

>IMHO I suspect the original r.a.s charter was flawed - shorter stories
>should have been allowed

What do you feel would be a reasonable lower limit? How many words,
lines or bytes?

>as well as follow-ups.

I disagree with you here, with the possible exception of corrections.
Follow up discussion can take place in the appropriate rec.aviation.*
newsgroups. That will prevent the stories from being lost amongst the
clutter of extemporaneous chit chat.

In short, I believe the existence of an aviation newsgroup that is
devoid of contentious argument and inane blather is worth preserving.
There are plenty of other newsgroups that provide a forum for that
sort of content already.

Of course, I would prefer that the stories submitted to the
rec.aviation.stories newsgroup were well written, perfectly formatted,
grammatically correct, polished literary works that reflected
positively on the aviation community, but I'm a realist. As the
current acting moderator of the rec.aviation.stories newsgroup, I am
committed to approving any story submitted that falls within the
current charter guidelines.

So, sharpen your quill, gather your wits, and commit your interesting,
entertaining, informative and enlightening thoughts and experiences to
an article submission, be it non-fiction or fictional, and post it to
rec.aviation.stories.

CHARTER

rec.aviation.stories (MODERATED)

A home for one of the greatest strengths of rec.aviation --
longer postings of stories and experiences, including
descriptions of cross-country trips, "I learned about flying from
that", airshow reports, and so on. The moderator will reject
shorter articles and subjects which aren't appropriate to the
group, and will ensure that articles meet minimum readability
standards (i.e., line lengths).

Follow-ups will be directed to other groups. It is expected that
this group will typically contain only one or two articles a
week.

Articles for anonymous posting will be accepted.

....

rec.aviation.stories
A number of netters brought up this group as a very strong desire
at Oshkosh. People felt that one of the greatest strengths of
the net was the "I was there" stories -- stories which are very
different from the semi-sanitized accounts one sees in commercial
magazines. The desire was to have a forum for these longer
stories, one in which (a) it could be ensured that they'd be
easily found, (b) they wouldn't be intermixed with other stuff,
and (c) they wouldn't get drowned out by follow-ups.

A moderated newsgroup makes sense in this case, and also will
allow a final formatting check to be done to ensure that the
articles are easy to read (line lengths, etc.).

....

Q: "Why _three_ moderated groups?"

A: The three groups serve quite distinct purposes. Most readers
will probably place .announce near the top of their reading lists,
since it will be low-volume and will contain short articles.
Readers will accord .stories a special place, since they'll want
to take the time to sit down and enjoy the few articles which are
posted to that group.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
<...> Of course, I would prefer that the stories submitted to the
> rec.aviation.stories newsgroup were well written, perfectly formatted,
> grammatically correct, polished literary works that reflected
> positively on the aviation community, but I'm a realist. As the
> current acting moderator of the rec.aviation.stories newsgroup, I am
> committed to approving any story submitted that falls within the
> current charter guidelines.
>
> So, sharpen your quill, gather your wits, and commit your interesting,
> entertaining, informative and enlightening thoughts and experiences to
> an article submission, be it non-fiction or fictional, and post it to
> rec.aviation.stories.
>
> CHARTER
>
> rec.aviation.stories (MODERATED)
>
> A home for one of the greatest strengths of rec.aviation --
> longer postings of stories and experiences, including
> descriptions of cross-country trips, "I learned about flying from
> that", airshow reports, and so on. The moderator will reject
> shorter articles and subjects which aren't appropriate to the
> group, and will ensure that articles meet minimum readability
> standards (i.e., line lengths).

How short is too short?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:02:53 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in
>:

>How short is too short?

One reader suggested that the stories published in this message should
qualify for rec.aviation.stories. They are generally a few paragraphs
in length. I would judge submissions more on their merit than their
length.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:35:44 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote in >:

>On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:02:53 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
>Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in
>:
>
>>How short is too short?
> thread ---------|
> V
>One reader suggested that the stories published in this message should
>qualify for rec.aviation.stories. They are generally a few paragraphs
>in length. I would judge submissions more on their merit than their
>length.