Checklist exchange [Archive]

Andrey Serbinenko

January 18th 07, 06:52 PM

Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more little
things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as I
started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so interesting
since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those little
things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't have --
stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange things in
such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for Cutlass.
Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...

Andrey

==============================================
C172

PRE-FLIGHT
1. hobbs record
2. inspections check
3. ARROW check
4. windows check clean
5. control lock remove
6. parking brake set
7. avionics verify off
8. master on
9. fuel gauges check indication
10. flaps down
11. turn coordinator check no flag
12. pitot heat check
13. lights check
14. master off
15. trim visually check
16. fuel selector both
17. key verify removed

POST-FLIGHT
1. avionics off
2. ignition ground check
3. mixture cut-off
4. landing light check
5. master off
6. key remove
7. fuel selector left
8. trim for take-off
9. control lock set
10. all lights verify off
11. hobbs record
12. flight plan close

ENGINE START
1. pre-flight complete
2. pax briefed
3. seat belts secure
4. brakes check pressure
5. mixture rich
6. fuel selector both
7. throttle 1/8
8. carb heat off
9. nav light & beacon on
10. avionics verify off
11. prime as required
12. master on
13. clear prop call
14. ignition engage
15. throttle 800-1000 rpm
16. oil pressure/temp check
17. vacuum check
18. ammeter check
19. lights on
20. circuit breakers check
21. avionics on

PRE-TAXI
1. altimeter set
2. ATIS receive
3. altimeter reset
4. DG align with compass
5. AI set level
6. alt static/VSI check
7. comm 1,2 check
8. mkr lights check
9. transponder test
10. vor 1,2 test
11. adf test
12. comm/nav set as required
13. transponder standby VFR
14. trim verify for t/o
15. flaps up
16. fuel selector left
17. clearance receive
18. transponder set as required
19. taxi light on
20. parking brake release
21. brakes check

TAXI
1. turn coordinator verify
2. DG verify
3. compass verify
4. AI verify
5. controls position for wind

RUNUP
1. nose straight
2. parking brake set
3. taxi light off
4. controls free and correct
5. 6-pack check
6. avionics set as required
7. mixture rich
8. fuel selector right
9. throttle 1700 rpm
10. oil pressure/temp check
11. vacuum check
12. ammeter check under load
13. magnetos check
14. carb heat check
15. idle check
16. fuel selector both
17. primer verify locked

PRE-TAKE-OFF
1. mixture as required
2. fuel selector both
3. carb heat off
4. primer locked
5. flaps as required
6. trim for t/o
7. take-off briefing complete
BRIEFING:
1. rotation speed
2. best glide speed
3. runway required
4. runway available
5. engine quits: a. before rotation - abort take-off
b. below 800' agl - land straigt ahead +/- 30deg
c. above 800' agl - turn (which way) for
landing on (which) runway
8. seat belts secure
9. doors & windows locked

TAKE-OFF
1. landing light on
2. strobes on
3. transponder mode C
4. DG verify runway heading
5. time note
6. engine rpm verify full power
7. oil pressure/temp in the green
8. airspeed alive

PRE-LANDING
1. mixture rich
2. fuel selector both
3. primer locked
4. landing light on
5. seat belts secure
6. brakes check pressure
7. carb heat as required
8. flaps as required

POST-LANDING
1. carb heat off
2. flaps up
3. transponder standby
4. landing light off
5. strobes off
6. time note
==============================================

Newps

January 18th 07, 07:01 PM

Wow, you've made flying incredibly difficult. And here for VFR flying I
don't need a checklist. There's nothing that, if missed, will kill you.
My only assumption is I don't forget to do the runup the first flight
of the day.

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
> whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more little
> things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as I
> started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so interesting
> since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those little
> things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't have --
> stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange things in
> such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
> I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
> turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for Cutlass.
> Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> C172
>
> PRE-FLIGHT
> 1. hobbs record
> 2. inspections check
> 3. ARROW check
> 4. windows check clean
> 5. control lock remove
> 6. parking brake set
> 7. avionics verify off
> 8. master on
> 9. fuel gauges check indication
> 10. flaps down
> 11. turn coordinator check no flag
> 12. pitot heat check
> 13. lights check
> 14. master off
> 15. trim visually check
> 16. fuel selector both
> 17. key verify removed
>
>
> POST-FLIGHT
> 1. avionics off
> 2. ignition ground check
> 3. mixture cut-off
> 4. landing light check
> 5. master off
> 6. key remove
> 7. fuel selector left
> 8. trim for take-off
> 9. control lock set
> 10. all lights verify off
> 11. hobbs record
> 12. flight plan close
>
>
> ENGINE START
> 1. pre-flight complete
> 2. pax briefed
> 3. seat belts secure
> 4. brakes check pressure
> 5. mixture rich
> 6. fuel selector both
> 7. throttle 1/8
> 8. carb heat off
> 9. nav light & beacon on
> 10. avionics verify off
> 11. prime as required
> 12. master on
> 13. clear prop call
> 14. ignition engage
> 15. throttle 800-1000 rpm
> 16. oil pressure/temp check
> 17. vacuum check
> 18. ammeter check
> 19. lights on
> 20. circuit breakers check
> 21. avionics on
>
>
> PRE-TAXI
> 1. altimeter set
> 2. ATIS receive
> 3. altimeter reset
> 4. DG align with compass
> 5. AI set level
> 6. alt static/VSI check
> 7. comm 1,2 check
> 8. mkr lights check
> 9. transponder test
> 10. vor 1,2 test
> 11. adf test
> 12. comm/nav set as required
> 13. transponder standby VFR
> 14. trim verify for t/o
> 15. flaps up
> 16. fuel selector left
> 17. clearance receive
> 18. transponder set as required
> 19. taxi light on
> 20. parking brake release
> 21. brakes check
>
>
> TAXI
> 1. turn coordinator verify
> 2. DG verify
> 3. compass verify
> 4. AI verify
> 5. controls position for wind
>
>
> RUNUP
> 1. nose straight
> 2. parking brake set
> 3. taxi light off
> 4. controls free and correct
> 5. 6-pack check
> 6. avionics set as required
> 7. mixture rich
> 8. fuel selector right
> 9. throttle 1700 rpm
> 10. oil pressure/temp check
> 11. vacuum check
> 12. ammeter check under load
> 13. magnetos check
> 14. carb heat check
> 15. idle check
> 16. fuel selector both
> 17. primer verify locked
>
>
> PRE-TAKE-OFF
> 1. mixture as required
> 2. fuel selector both
> 3. carb heat off
> 4. primer locked
> 5. flaps as required
> 6. trim for t/o
> 7. take-off briefing complete
> BRIEFING:
> 1. rotation speed
> 2. best glide speed
> 3. runway required
> 4. runway available
> 5. engine quits: a. before rotation - abort take-off
> b. below 800' agl - land straigt ahead +/- 30deg
> c. above 800' agl - turn (which way) for
> landing on (which) runway
> 8. seat belts secure
> 9. doors & windows locked
>
>
> TAKE-OFF
> 1. landing light on
> 2. strobes on
> 3. transponder mode C
> 4. DG verify runway heading
> 5. time note
> 6. engine rpm verify full power
> 7. oil pressure/temp in the green
> 8. airspeed alive
>
>
> PRE-LANDING
> 1. mixture rich
> 2. fuel selector both
> 3. primer locked
> 4. landing light on
> 5. seat belts secure
> 6. brakes check pressure
> 7. carb heat as required
> 8. flaps as required
>
>
> POST-LANDING
> 1. carb heat off
> 2. flaps up
> 3. transponder standby
> 4. landing light off
> 5. strobes off
> 6. time note
> ==============================================

Larry Dighera

January 18th 07, 07:28 PM

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:01:20 -0700, Newps > wrote
in >:

> And here for VFR flying I don't need a checklist.

What's so unique about your location?

Obviously our regard for the necessity of checklists differ. You'll
find an Adobe Acrobat copy of my Piper PA28-235 checklist here:
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/aircraftinfo.asp?ID=29

Below is an unformatted copy:

Piper PA28-235 Check List
L. G. Dighera © June 21, 1999
Preflight Check
Squawks: note equipment complaints
Time: record Hobbs reading
Control wheel: release belts
Headset: jacks in, batteries: check
Avionics: off
Master switch: on
Fuel quantity gages: check (Sunrise: 122.85MHz; 851-5061)
Master switch: off
Ignition: check Mags OFF (keys on top of control panel)
Flaps: fully extended
Fuel strainer: drain
Exterior: check for damage, wrinkles, oil-caning
Control surfaces: check for interference
free of ice, snow, frost
Hinges: check for pins, interference
Wings: free of ice, snow, frost
Stall warning: check Light
Lights: operational (nav, ldg, beacon, strobes, inst, cabin)
Fuel tanks: check supply visually, secure caps
Fuel tank sumps: drain and check for water,
sediment, and proper fuel (80/87 red, 100LL blue)
Fuel vents: open
Main gear struts: proper inflation (4.5 inches, 2" @ 2900 lbs)
Tires: check wear, slippage, inflation (35-40 PSI)
Brakes: check blocks, red fluid leak
Pitot head: remove cover, holes clear
Windshield: clean
Propeller and spinner: check nicks, cracks, leaks, secure
Fuel and oil, check for leaks
Oil: Check level (add a quart if below 8.5 quarts, 12 qt max)
Dipstick: properly seated (50 W + additive, or 15-50 W)
cowling: secure
Inspection covers: secure
Nose wheel tire: check wear, slippage on rim, (28-30 PSI)
Nose gear strut: proper inflation (3.5 inches)
Air inlets & filter: clear
Alternator belt: check tension
Pitot cover: remove
Exhaust plug: remove
Tow-bar: secure
Baggage: stowed properly, secure
Baggage door: locked (CCW)
Flaps: retract, to support step weight
Primary flight controls: proper operation
Cabin door: closed and secure (top latch first)
Required papers: on board
Seat belts and harness: fasten/adjust,
check inertia reel
Weight and C. G. computation
VOT: check log or test
(110.0 MHz, 180/TO, 360/FROM)
Before Starting Engine
Pre-flight inspection: complete
ATIS: copy (126.00 MHz) [Corona AWAS: 132.175 MHz]
Altimeter: check +/- 75 feet of airport elevation
[SNA: 54', Corona: 533']
Clearance: copy (VFR: 121.85 MHz, IFR: 118.0 MHz)
Radios set: [Corona CTAF: 122.8 MHz]
COM1: GND: 120.8, TWR: 126.8
Transponder: beacon sqwak code
ADF: (MAAGG: 337 KHz)
Aircraft: pulled out
Parking break: set
Starting Engine
Tow-bar: stowed
Radio power switches: off
Auto-pilot: off
Mixture: full rich (unless flooded)
Prop: forward (high RPM)
Throttle: 1/8-1/4 inch open
if flooded, full open
Carburetor heat: off (in)
Primer: cold engine: 1-5 shots
hot engine: pump throttle 3-4 quick, short strokes
Master switch: on
Fuel selector: second fullest tank
Electric fuel pump: on until pressure (unless flooded)
Clear area: verbal “CLEAR” and visual check:
Starter button: one revolution
Mag switch: Left magneto (impulse coupled)
Starter button: engage (5 to 10 seconds maximum)
Mag switch: Both
Throttle: adjust 800 RPM
Oil Pressure: check (green arc in 30 seconds, or shutdown)
Anti-collision light: on (day)
Radio power switches: on
Electric fuel pump: off
Limit ground operation: above 70° F 2 minutes, below 4 min
Taxiing
Area: clear behind and in front
Mixture: lean to 2-1/2 inches out (to minimize lead fouling)
Brakes: release
Throttle: 1000 RPM
Steering: check
Bakes: check
Collision avoidance: observe shadows
At first turn check:
attitude indicator: stable
turn coordinator:
ball free opposite turn, tube full
turn indication toward turn
heading indicator: operational, stable
compass: card free, fluid full
Do not operate at high RPM over loose stones
Ground Check (Run-up)
Parking brake: set
Electric fuel pump: verify off
Prop: in (high RPM)
Throttle: 2150 RPM
Fuel pressure: green
Fuel selector: switch to fullest tank (not mogas)
Fuel pressure: green
Magnetos: (minimize operation on one mag)
Max: drop 125 RPM, difference 50 RPM
To remove carbon from plugs:
Magneto switch to BOTH
full throttle
lean mixture to maximum RPM and
enrichen (or 100° F rich of peak)
run for one minute, check mags.
Prop: cycle 3 times
Carburetor heat: check RPM drop or increase
Vacuum: 5.0 In Hg, +/- 0.1 In Hg
Ammeter: check (cycle landing light, note load indication)
Oil temperature: green
Oil pressure: green
Retard throttle, idle check 650 RPM
Before Takeoff
Master switch: on
Flight instruments: set (AI, DG, VSI, Alt, clock)
Fuel selector: verify on fullest tank (not mogas)
Electric fuel pump: on
Engine gages: check oil pres. & temp. fuel pres.
Carburetor heat: off
Prop: in (high RPM)
Mixture: Full Rich
Or, lean for best power: oil temperature in green,
advance to full throttle,
lean mixture to maximum RPM
(2275-2375? static) and enrichen,
or 125° F rich of peak
Primer: locked
Flaps: set
Trim tabs: set (to “T”)
Controls: free and correct, autopilot off
Seat backs: erect
Seat belts, shoulder straps: buckled
Empty seats: belts securely fastened
Doors: latched (top latch first)
Radios: set
Fuses: check (tight, spares)
Transponder: on Altitude
Lights: as required
Engine is warm for takeoff when the throttle can be opened
without engine skipping or backfiring, and without reduction in
oil pressure.
Takeoff
Electric fuel pump: verify on
Flaps: set
normal: 0°
short/soft field: 25° (2nd notch)
Trim tabs: set according to CG loading (T)
Landing light: on
Transponder: on Altitude
Control wheel:
normal: forward pressure for cross wind
short field: neutral
soft field: back pressure, nose high
Time-off: note
Throttle: apply full throttle
normal: smoothly
short field: while brakes locked
soft field: slowly as acceleration proceeds
Heading indicator: check runway heading
Suction: 5.0 In Hg, +/- 0.1 In Hg
Ammeter: charging (> 0 indication)
Accelerate to:
normal: 65-70 MPH*
short/soft field: 55-65 MPH*
Ease control wheel back to rotate to climb attitude
Accelerate in ground-effect to:
normal: 100 MPH
short/soft field: 90 MPH
Flaps: if extended, slowly retract
Electric fuel pump: off 1500 ft AGL, check fuel pressure
* Speeds vary with weight loading
Climb
normal: 100 MPH (115 MPH for visibility and cooling)
short field: 90 MPH Vx (best angle) *
clear obstacle
then climb at 100 MPH Vy (best rate) *
soft field: 100 MPH Vy (best rate) *
Electric fuel pump: off at 1500 AGL
* Speeds will be reduced at less than gross weight
Cruising
Normal maximum power: 75% (2400 RPM $ 23.7" mp)
Mixture: lean above 5000 feet until rough
then enrichen until smooth, 100° F rich of peak EGT
(best power), or 1500° F, or lean for peak
EGT or roughness onset (best economy)
Switching tanks:
electric fuel pump on before & 30 sec after.
Burn inboard tanks first. Do not run tanks completely
dry in flight.
Turbulent air: reduce speed to 138 MPH (Va), or
less, if below maximum gross weight.
Descent
Normal:
throttle: plan to reduce MP 1 inch per minute
airspeed: as required
mixture: enrichen
Carburetor heat: full on, if required
Power off:
Carburetor heat: full on, if required
throttle: closed
airspeed: as required
mixture: leaned as required
power: verify with throttle every 30 seconds
Approach and Landing (GUMPS)
Seat backs: erect
Belts/harness: fasten/adjust
Mixture: rich (in)
Propeller: high RPM, (in)
Throttle: as required to maintain speed & descent (15-18")
Carburetor heat: off (unless icing is suspected)
Electric fuel pump: on
Fuel selector: fullest tank
Flaps: extend (115 MPH maximum speed):
normal: full (40°)
windy: little or none (0-25°)
Trim: 90 MPH, (set to L) (higher, if wind shear suspected)
Final approach speed (flaps 40°): 55-65 MPH
After ground contact: flaps up
hold nose wheel off, then lower nose gear
apply brakes with weight on main gear
Stopping Engine
Flaps: verify retracted
Electric fuel pump: off
Radios: off
Lights, and other electrical equipment: off
Throttle: closed
Ground lead check:
key to OFF momentarily
observe > 200 RPM drop
key to BOTH
Mixture: idle cut-off
Magnetos: off (keys on top of control panel)
Master switch: off
Oil fill door: open for cooling
Parking
Fuel: fill all tanks, and oil above 9 qt. (Aero 100, 50 W SAE)
Sunrise: 122.85, (714) 851-5061
Stop with nose wheel on taxi way center line
Use tow-bar to steer aircraft to tie-down position Push aircraft
near hub of propeller
Wheels: chocked
Tie-downs: secure
Propeller: vertical for fueling
(normal rotation; finger tips only, for safety)
Tow-bar: stow
Flaps: fully retracted
Fuel valve: off
Parking brake: set
Time: enter Hobbs and Tachometer readings in book
Squawk: inoperative equipment in book
Window: latched closed
Vents: closed (4 seat, 1 dash, 1 roof, 1 cabin air)
Control wheel: secured with belts
Seat belts: fastened, shoulder belt stowed
Cabin: clean, all articles removed
Radio power switches: verify all off
Verify MASTER SWITCH OFF
Cabin and baggage doors: locked (CCW)
Oil fill door: close
Pitot cover & exhaust plug: installed
Cabin cover: installed
Flight Plan Closed

Duncan (NZ)

January 18th 07, 07:48 PM

In article >,
says...
>
> Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
> whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more little
> things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as I
> started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so interesting
> since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those little
> things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't have --
> stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange things in
> such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
> I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
> turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for Cutlass.
> Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> C172
>
> PRE-FLIGHT
> 1. hobbs record
> 2. inspections check
> 3. ARROW check
> 4. windows check clean
> 5. control lock remove
> 6. parking brake set
> 7. avionics verify off
> 8. master on
> 9. fuel gauges check indication
> 10. flaps down
> 11. turn coordinator check no flag
> 12. pitot heat check
> 13. lights check
> 14. master off
> 15. trim visually check
> 16. fuel selector both
> 17. key verify removed
>
>
> POST-FLIGHT
> 1. avionics off
> 2. ignition ground check
> 3. mixture cut-off
> 4. landing light check
> 5. master off
> 6. key remove
> 7. fuel selector left
> 8. trim for take-off
> 9. control lock set
> 10. all lights verify off
> 11. hobbs record
> 12. flight plan close
>
>
> ENGINE START
> 1. pre-flight complete
> 2. pax briefed
> 3. seat belts secure
> 4. brakes check pressure
> 5. mixture rich
> 6. fuel selector both
> 7. throttle 1/8

gonna check throttle friction?

> 8. carb heat off
> 9. nav light & beacon on
> 10. avionics verify off
> 11. prime as required
> 12. master on
> 13. clear prop call

who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
(what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the thing
when it's spinning.

> 14. ignition engage
> 15. throttle 800-1000 rpm
> 16. oil pressure/temp check
> 17. vacuum check
> 18. ammeter check
> 19. lights on
> 20. circuit breakers check
> 21. avionics on
>
>
> PRE-TAXI
> 1. altimeter set
> 2. ATIS receive
> 3. altimeter reset
> 4. DG align with compass
> 5. AI set level
> 6. alt static/VSI check
> 7. comm 1,2 check
> 8. mkr lights check
> 9. transponder test
> 10. vor 1,2 test
> 11. adf test
> 12. comm/nav set as required
> 13. transponder standby VFR
> 14. trim verify for t/o
> 15. flaps up
> 16. fuel selector left
> 17. clearance receive
> 18. transponder set as required
> 19. taxi light on
> 20. parking brake release
> 21. brakes check
>
>
> TAXI
> 1. turn coordinator verify
> 2. DG verify
> 3. compass verify
> 4. AI verify
> 5. controls position for wind
>
>
> RUNUP
> 1. nose straight
> 2. parking brake set
> 3. taxi light off
> 4. controls free and correct
> 5. 6-pack check
> 6. avionics set as required
> 7. mixture rich
> 8. fuel selector right
> 9. throttle 1700 rpm
> 10. oil pressure/temp check
> 11. vacuum check
> 12. ammeter check under load
> 13. magnetos check
> 14. carb heat check
> 15. idle check
> 16. fuel selector both
> 17. primer verify locked
>
>
> PRE-TAKE-OFF
> 1. mixture as required
> 2. fuel selector both
> 3. carb heat off
> 4. primer locked
> 5. flaps as required
> 6. trim for t/o
> 7. take-off briefing complete
> BRIEFING:
> 1. rotation speed
> 2. best glide speed
> 3. runway required
> 4. runway available
> 5. engine quits: a. before rotation - abort take-off
> b. below 800' agl - land straigt ahead +/- 30deg
> c. above 800' agl - turn (which way) for
> landing on (which) runway
> 8. seat belts secure
> 9. doors & windows locked
>
>
> TAKE-OFF
> 1. landing light on
> 2. strobes on
> 3. transponder mode C
> 4. DG verify runway heading
> 5. time note
> 6. engine rpm verify full power
> 7. oil pressure/temp in the green
> 8. airspeed alive
>
>
> PRE-LANDING
> 1. mixture rich
> 2. fuel selector both
> 3. primer locked
> 4. landing light on
> 5. seat belts secure
> 6. brakes check pressure
> 7. carb heat as required

how would you know? (eg it's about to be required - how can you tell
that situation. Me.. carb heat ON (as I throttle back at end of
downwind). And I turn it back OFF established final (ready for full
power at anytime thereafter, and knowing it's had a good application
just prior.

> 8. flaps as required
>
>
> POST-LANDING
> 1. carb heat off
> 2. flaps up
> 3. transponder standby
> 4. landing light off
> 5. strobes off
> 6. time note
> ==============================================

Jeez that's a lot of checks n' stuff - some doubled up, eg controls full
and free (only need to do that as ye pre-t/o - well that's what
methinks).

A very comprehensive list I might add.

--
Duncan

B A R R Y[_2_]

January 18th 07, 08:09 PM

Duncan (NZ) wrote:
>
>> 13. clear prop call
>
> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
> (what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
> those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
> around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the thing
> when it's spinning.

I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.

I see it as a courtesy to those who may be near enough to catch the
breeze or debris. I can't see behind my plane, so you never know.

Maybe it's not a life or death thing, but what can it hurt?

Don Tuite

January 18th 07, 08:29 PM

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:09:49 GMT, B A R R Y >
wrote:

>Duncan (NZ) wrote:
>>
>>> 13. clear prop call
>>
>> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
>> (what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
>> those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
>> around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the thing
>> when it's spinning.
>
>I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.
>
>I see it as a courtesy to those who may be near enough to catch the
>breeze or debris. I can't see behind my plane, so you never know.
>
>Maybe it's not a life or death thing, but what can it hurt?

I try to vary it.

GESUNDHEIT!

FORE!

BINGO!

L'CHAIM!

are equally effective.

Especially on the newer Piper. I haven't mastered doing the
turn-and-push on the mag switch to engage the starter with my left
hand, so I do it with my right, while my left hand's on the throttle.
That leaves my mouth about two feet from the tiny storm window, which
is, often as not, blocked by the AirScoop.

But it keeps the elephants away. That's what I tell passengers.

Don

BDS[_2_]

January 18th 07, 08:33 PM

"Don Tuite" > wrote

> I try to vary it.
>
> GESUNDHEIT!
>
> FORE!
>
> BINGO!
>
> L'CHAIM!
>
> are equally effective.

I prefer "LOOK OUT!!!"

bds

Jose

January 18th 07, 08:34 PM

>>13. clear prop call
> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around

It gets the attention of anyone outside the plane that might be
affected, including whoever you didn't see.

> Jeez that's a lot of checks n' stuff - some doubled up, eg controls full
> and free (only need to do that as ye pre-t/o - well that's what
> methinks).

I haven't examined the checklist in question, but on mine, I have some
checks doubled up because they serve to ensure that the item is checked
the next time around - for example, taking off again in the pattern.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Gig 601XL Builder

January 18th 07, 09:10 PM

BDS wrote:

>
> I prefer "LOOK OUT!!!"
>

Or just in case the flight ends badly and you want to give us something to
talk about.

"Watch This"

Andrey Serbinenko

January 18th 07, 09:22 PM

> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around

I call it *out of the window* to alert people nearby that this airplane is
going to turn into a moving hazard very shortly. I've seen on many occasions
that people would stand near the fence behind aircraft chatting, and then
would walk away once they hear the call close to them -- because they can
get some dust in their faces, and it's noisy and they won't be able to talk
normally anymore. So, the call is just a courtesy.

>> 7. carb heat as required
>
> how would you know? (eg it's about to be required - how can you tell

I normally run this pre-landing checklist a few miles out, and neither
carb heat, nor flaps are required at that point, but it reminds me to
use them when the time comes.

> Jeez that's a lot of checks n' stuff - some doubled up, eg controls full
> and free (only need to do that as ye pre-t/o - well that's what

That's "free and correct", i.e. full control travel is available and
controls get deflected in the correct direction. I do that only as part
of run-up. Other duplications are there only as a safety double-check.
For example, I double-check that primer is locked on pre-take-off and on
pre-landing, even though it "should be enough" to do it only once after
run-up. The reason is that it happened to me once that primer's locking
pin vibrated out of position and I almost took off with primer half-extended.
Now I check it every time. That's one of those little things.

Andrey

Ron Natalie

January 18th 07, 09:28 PM

B A R R Y wrote:

>
> I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.
>
That's why we call it the "clear prop window". Not
much good for anything else.

Ron Natalie

January 18th 07, 10:00 PM

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:

Your checklist omits a number of important items and actually
has some real dangerous errors. What do you have against the
POH? If you want to add extra steps or amplification, I'd
start with the POH one rather than making it up from scratch.
Cessna did put a little bit of thought into over the years.

>
> PRE-FLIGHT

Why don't you use the POH one? This misses a TON of important stuff
that's in the POH like visual fuel quantity checks, sumping the tanks,
etc...

> 16. fuel selector both

You seem to love to switch fuel selectors all over (see below)

> 17. key verify removed

You take the key out before you fly? Odd. My checklist says "make sure
it's not in your pants pocket dummy." Never rely on the fact that the
keys are not in the lock to make sure the mags are grounded. The
172 (and most other light planes) have crappy ignition locks. Always
treat the prop as if the mags are hot.

> 4. landing light check

Check how?

> 10. all lights verify off

Huh? What difference does it make if the master is off.
Actually, I leave the beacon on all the time. Makes it handy
to know you left the master on and warns people nearby as soon
as you switch on the amster.

> 19. lights on

What lights? You already turned them on a few steps earlier?

> 6. alt static/VSI check

Check? How about saying what you are checking for.
The alt static and the VSI are completely different items
and I have no idea why they are merged on this line.
The VSI should be checked for the "level flight" setting.
The Alt Static just should be closed.

> 7. comm 1,2 check

Gosh I hope you're not one of those guys who chews up the UNICOM
asking for radio checks all over the place.

> 9. transponder test
> 10. vor 1,2 test
> 11. adf test

How so?

> 16. fuel selector left

What? Now is not the time to be setting the fuel selector to
a non-takeoff position. Both is what the book calls for.
LEFT is a REALLY REALLY BAD answer in the 172. If you
want to put it on one tank (which I don't agree with)
you should use the FULLEST. The left tank is usually
not the FULLEST in a 172.

> 1. nose straight

Nose straight isn't important, into the wind might help
a bit.

> 2. parking brake set

I know this is what the POH says, but the Pakring break is balky
on a lot of 152/172's. If you're going to set it, you better
put an item to release it and verify it actually did release.

> 8. fuel selector right

Again stop doing this.

> 9. throttle 1700 rpm
> 10. oil pressure/temp check
> 11. vacuum check
> 12. ammeter check under load
> 13. magnetos check
> 14. carb heat check
> 15. idle check
> 16. fuel selector both
> 17. primer verify locked

This is NOT the POH run up check. You omitted setting the MIXTURE
properly which needs to be done after step 9.

> 7. carb heat as required

ON in the 172 especially with the Continental powered ones.

chris[_1_]

January 18th 07, 10:14 PM

JGalban[_6_]

January 19th 07, 12:18 AM

Duncan wrote :
>> 13. clear prop call

>who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
>(what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
>those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
>around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the
thing
>when it's spinning.

The purpose is the same as it's always been. To warn anyone nearby
that the prop is about to turn into a meat grinder. I'm not sure what
you're flying, but many of the planes I fly do not allow me to see
everything around me. Also, I've had my head in the cockpit for the
past few minutes, performing the prestart checks and I haven't been
concentrating on the movements of passerbys.

As a student, I got an excellent demonstration of how the call can
save the day. A student had his head in the cockpit, doing prestart
checks and a nearby pilot noticed that he'd left the front wheel
chocked. This helpful, but not overly bright, fellow headed for the
nosewheel chock while the student wasn't looking. Fortunately, the
student yelled "clear prop" while the helpful goofball was still a few
feet away (but bent over where the student couldn't see him). Nobody
noticed any of this until the pilot yelled "clear prop". As usual,
everyone nearby turned to look when the call was made. The helpful
idiot immediately got out of the way, and everyone else on the ramp was
waving and yelling at the student to stop.

If you could assume everyone on the ramp is thinking clearly and
knowledgable about airplanes, you could probably omit the call.
Unfortunately, real life ramps are not like that. My instructor
always emphasized the importance of not only yelling "clear prop", but
also waiting for a few seconds after the call to allow people time to
get out of the way. I see way too many people who make the call and
hit the starter at about the same time.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

[email protected]

January 19th 07, 01:22 AM

Newps wrote:
> Wow, you've made flying incredibly difficult. And here for VFR flying I
> don't need a checklist. There's nothing that, if missed, will kill you.
> My only assumption is I don't forget to do the runup the first flight
> of the day.

I recall that attitudes like that have caused many unnecessary
incidents/accidents. To each his own.

Jose

January 19th 07, 01:25 AM

> Check? How about saying what you are checking for.

Well, it is a "check" list. :) More to the point, it is not a flying
instruction booklet. One presumes the user knows what the item means.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[email protected]

January 19th 07, 02:04 AM

Duncan (NZ) wrote:

> > 13. clear prop call
>
> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
> (what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to

As others have said, it's not what you can see, it's who you can't.

That said, I've wondered if "CLEAR PROP" isn't the best thing to say,
the main people you are worried about are people not aviation-minded,
most airfield regulars are going to be prop-concious as a rule, but Joe
Bloggs might not, and he also might not realise the significance of
CLEAR PROP.

Perhaps something more verbose "STAND CLEAR, STARTING UP" should be
adopted.

Also, behooves the pilot to wait a couple of seconds before hitting the
starter after yelling it, no good calling and pressing the go button
almost simultaneously, as I have seen a number of pilots do.

Matt Barrow

January 19th 07, 02:57 AM

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> BDS wrote:
>
>>
>> I prefer "LOOK OUT!!!"
>>
>
>
> Or just in case the flight ends badly and you want to give us something to
> talk about.
>
> "Watch This"
"Hold my beer and watch this!"

Duncan (NZ)

January 19th 07, 07:28 AM

In article om>,
says...
> Duncan (NZ) wrote:
>
> > > 13. clear prop call
> >
> > who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
> > (what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
>
> As others have said, it's not what you can see, it's who you can't.

If you can't see them, then they're nowhere near the prop (unless
they're sneakin' about on their bellies under the fuselage somewhere -
in which case they deserve chopping up :)

> That said, I've wondered if "CLEAR PROP" isn't the best thing to say,
> the main people you are worried about are people not aviation-minded,
> most airfield regulars are going to be prop-concious as a rule, but Joe
> Bloggs might not, and he also might not realise the significance of
> CLEAR PROP.
>
> Perhaps something more verbose "STAND CLEAR, STARTING UP" should be
> adopted.
>
> Also, behooves the pilot to wait a couple of seconds before hitting the
> starter after yelling it, no good calling and pressing the go button
> almost simultaneously, as I have seen a number of pilots do.
>
>

--
Duncan

[email protected]

January 19th 07, 08:17 AM

Duncan (NZ) wrote:
> If you can't see them, then they're nowhere near the prop (unless
> they're sneakin' about on their bellies under the fuselage somewhere -

Or they are a child, or you are in a tail dragger with zero forward vis
on the ground.

B A R R Y[_2_]

January 19th 07, 11:45 AM

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
> Or just in case the flight ends badly and you want to give us something to
> talk about.
>
> "Watch This"
>

I thought it went "Y'all watch this!" ;^)

B A R R Y[_2_]

January 19th 07, 11:47 AM

Ron Natalie wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>
>>
>> I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.
>>
> That's why we call it the "clear prop window". Not
> much good for anything else.

I've got an air scoop, so it's a tad more useful. Don't forget the
storm window's utility when closing an in-flight open door!

Jim Macklin

January 19th 07, 01:14 PM

Or a multiengine with the engines well behind the cockpit.

With the advent of cheap and small webcams and glass
cockpits, an array of small cameras could be used to clear
the area, check landing gear and flap positions and ice. If
the cameras had IR and visual sensitivity, they would even
be useful in fog.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
| Duncan (NZ) wrote:
| > If you can't see them, then they're nowhere near the
prop (unless
| > they're sneakin' about on their bellies under the
fuselage somewhere -
|
| Or they are a child, or you are in a tail dragger with
zero forward vis
| on the ground.
|

Ron Natalie

January 19th 07, 02:54 PM

B A R R Y wrote:
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>> B A R R Y wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.
>>>
>> That's why we call it the "clear prop window". Not
>> much good for anything else.
>
> I've got an air scoop, so it's a tad more useful. Don't forget the
> storm window's utility when closing an in-flight open door!

Doors are for barns. Real aircraft have canopies.

Andrey Serbinenko

January 19th 07, 02:54 PM

> I always wonder how people who rely on tons of checklists would manage
> if we took your checklists away ???

Oh, just fine :) A checklist is a reminder, not an operating instruction.
In many cases I look through the checklist after I did the procedure just
to make sure I hadn't missed anything, since the procedure is already
automatic.

Gene Seibel

January 19th 07, 03:25 PM

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
> whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more little
> things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as I
> started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so interesting
> since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those little
> things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't have --
> stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange things in
> such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
> I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
> turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for Cutlass.
> Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...
>
> Andrey

Here's what I use for my Cherokee. Didn't use one for my Tri-Pacer, but
with age I've become wiser and more forgetful. ;)

Start
Mixture rich
Master Switch on
Fullest tank
Prime
Fuel pump on
Check fuel pressure
Ignition to both
Start
Check gauges
Fuel pump off

Taxi
Audio amp on
Comms on
Transponder on
Strobes on
Beacon on

Runup
Brakes on
Check Mags
Check Carb heat
Set Altimeter
Set Directional Gyro
Set Artificial Horizon

Takeoff
Door latched
Fuel pump on

Landing
Mixture rich
Fullest tank
Fuel pump on
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Andrey Serbinenko

January 19th 07, 03:39 PM

> Your checklist omits a number of important items and actually

What I presented here wasn't a complete operating instruction, nor was it
a complete checklist that I use. For example, I omitted the whole section
on the pre-flight performed outside the cockpit, or any of the emergency
checklists.

> You seem to love to switch fuel selectors all over (see below)

Not at all. The idea is to have both "left" and "right" fuel paths working
individually for some time to make sure there's nothing in the way. So,
I taxi on one tank and do runup on the other. There's still enough time
between when I last touch the selector and the takeoff to see if there's any
problems on "both".

> You take the key out before you fly? Odd. My checklist says "make sure

I take the key out after I'm done with the "inside" pre-flight, and put it
on top of the panel in plain view. I have a habit of glancing over to see
it there before touching the prop during the "outside" pre-flight.

>> 4. landing light check
> Check how?

When you turn the light on, ammeter's needle shows increase in discharge
rate. If the bulb has burnt out, there's no discharge.

>> 10. all lights verify off
> Huh? What difference does it make if the master is off.

If I forgot to turn off the panel lights after a night flight, for example,
I'm not going to see that they're still on next day, since it'll be
daylight, and they'll wind up being on all day. Those little bulbs
burn out pretty quickly. Besides, it's always good to leave the plane
in a known state.

> Actually, I leave the beacon on all the time. Makes it handy

Yes, I do that, too. I don't include beacon in "all lights". Again, checklist
is a reminder, not a comprehensive operating instruction.

>> 19. lights on
> What lights? You already turned them on a few steps earlier?

That were nav lights and beacon. Here I take care of any other lights I
might need for the flight -- panel lights, adjusting brightness of radio
panel lights etc.

>> 6. alt static/VSI check
> Check? How about saying what you are checking for.

When you pull alt static, there's a momentary fluctuation in
VSI, after which it's supposed to return to zero. When the
engine is running and there's some slipstream around the cabin,
pressure inside is slightly lower than outside, so if you pull
alt static, VSI will show a momentary climb. It's just to check
that static system is not blocked and your VSI is not frozen.

>> 7. comm 1,2 check
> Gosh I hope you're not one of those guys who chews up the UNICOM

No. I check comms by using them normally. I simply make a point of
using both comms while still on the ground. I may use one for getting
atis and the other one for ground. That's checking at least that I
can receive, squelch is working, volume knob has good contact etc.

>> 9. transponder test
>> 10. vor 1,2 test
>> 11. adf test
>
> How so?

Transponder has "self-test" position: the light should illuminate.
VORs I check by tuning them to the localizer freq of my airport:
I get the id checked and proper deflection of the needle. In some
radiostacks VORs have self-test position. ADF also has a self-test
position (the needle starts to turn around).

>> 1. nose straight
> Nose straight isn't important, into the wind might help

If nosewheel is not straight when you stopped, it'll be difficult
to verify full travel of the rudder.

[email protected]

January 19th 07, 05:09 PM

chris > wrote:

> I always wonder how people who rely on tons of checklists would manage
> if we took your checklists away ???

They would probably fare quite well, as they had been practicing and
using the checklist. When faced with a situation where the
checklist went "out the window", or was not available, likely they
would complete the same items, in the same order. I know that
has been my experience.

The FAA and AOPA have published articles about the consequences of
not following (using) written checklists. For example, see:
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=279

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ccdd54376bfdf5fd862569d100733983/$FILE/Chap%201-3.pdf

Where it discusses:

1 Neglect of Flight Planning, Preflight Inspecions, Checklists,
Etc. Unjustified reliance on the pilot.s short and long term
memory, regular flying skills, repetitive and familiar routes,
etc.

a. The Impulsivity Hazardous Attitude. (1) Situation: As you
enter the landing pattern, you normally lower the flaps. The tower
suddenly changes the active -runway. Distracted, you forget to use
the before-landing checklist. On short final you find yourself
dangerously low with a high sink rate. Glancing down, you realize
that you forgot to extend the flaps.

I've found the pilots who "can remember the checklist" and/or "use
the flow" without backing it up with a written checklist often miss
not just one, but several items. During transition training to
other aircraft, and during Flight Reviews, there are usually several
opportunities to point out the value "use of a written checklist"
even in a Cessna-172 or Cherokee!

YMMV. I find written checklists to be a help, not a hinderence.
Checklists may be operated as a "to-do" list, or an after-the-flow
"cross-check" or "final-check" that everything was accomplished.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

Marco Leon

January 19th 07, 05:22 PM

Great advice John. As another datapoint, I was walking along the
parking ramp to my aircraft and a Bo started up when I was by his
wingtip walking towards the prop. He didn't do ANYTHING to notify
anyone that he was starting, no beacon, no nav lights, and most of all,
no "clear prop" call-out. I gave him a dirty look while he looked up
with a surpised look on his fat, dumb and clueless face. Had he called
out from his side window, I would have heard him clear as day.

That day made sure I would never forget that checklist item.

Marco

JGalban wrote:
>
> The purpose is the same as it's always been. To warn anyone nearby
> that the prop is about to turn into a meat grinder. I'm not sure what
> you're flying, but many of the planes I fly do not allow me to see
> everything around me. Also, I've had my head in the cockpit for the
> past few minutes, performing the prestart checks and I haven't been
> concentrating on the movements of passerbys.
>

Barney Rubble

January 19th 07, 06:28 PM

Quite often on the ramp at my home field a nearby pilot will call "All
clear" in response to my "clear", as he can see the area directly infront of
and underneath the nose. Just another nice piece of etiquette. Also it let's
people know it will get a bit breezy behind the plane.
I also see a lot of pilots shout clear and then immediately crank the
plane.... please make the call worthwhile by waiting a couple of seconds. Oh
and take the headset off or uncover one ear, just in case someone is
shouting something at you (like don't start, there's a kid playing with the
prop). I know it is unlikely but for that 1 in 1000000 chance, what has it
cost you?

- Barney

"Duncan (NZ)" > wrote in message
. nz...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
>> whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more
>> little
>> things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as
>> I
>> started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so
>> interesting
>> since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those
>> little
>> things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't
>> have --
>> stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange
>> things in
>> such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
>> I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
>> turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for
>> Cutlass.
>> Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...
>>
>> Andrey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==============================================
>> C172
>>
>> PRE-FLIGHT
>> 1. hobbs record
>> 2. inspections check
>> 3. ARROW check
>> 4. windows check clean
>> 5. control lock remove
>> 6. parking brake set
>> 7. avionics verify off
>> 8. master on
>> 9. fuel gauges check indication
>> 10. flaps down
>> 11. turn coordinator check no flag
>> 12. pitot heat check
>> 13. lights check
>> 14. master off
>> 15. trim visually check
>> 16. fuel selector both
>> 17. key verify removed
>>
>>
>> POST-FLIGHT
>> 1. avionics off
>> 2. ignition ground check
>> 3. mixture cut-off
>> 4. landing light check
>> 5. master off
>> 6. key remove
>> 7. fuel selector left
>> 8. trim for take-off
>> 9. control lock set
>> 10. all lights verify off
>> 11. hobbs record
>> 12. flight plan close
>>
>>
>> ENGINE START
>> 1. pre-flight complete
>> 2. pax briefed
>> 3. seat belts secure
>> 4. brakes check pressure
>> 5. mixture rich
>> 6. fuel selector both
>> 7. throttle 1/8
>
> gonna check throttle friction?
>
>> 8. carb heat off
>> 9. nav light & beacon on
>> 10. avionics verify off
>> 11. prime as required
>> 12. master on
>> 13. clear prop call
>
> who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
> (what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
> those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
> around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the thing
> when it's spinning.
>
>> 14. ignition engage
>> 15. throttle 800-1000 rpm
>> 16. oil pressure/temp check
>> 17. vacuum check
>> 18. ammeter check
>> 19. lights on
>> 20. circuit breakers check
>> 21. avionics on
>>
>>
>> PRE-TAXI
>> 1. altimeter set
>> 2. ATIS receive
>> 3. altimeter reset
>> 4. DG align with compass
>> 5. AI set level
>> 6. alt static/VSI check
>> 7. comm 1,2 check
>> 8. mkr lights check
>> 9. transponder test
>> 10. vor 1,2 test
>> 11. adf test
>> 12. comm/nav set as required
>> 13. transponder standby VFR
>> 14. trim verify for t/o
>> 15. flaps up
>> 16. fuel selector left
>> 17. clearance receive
>> 18. transponder set as required
>> 19. taxi light on
>> 20. parking brake release
>> 21. brakes check
>>
>>
>> TAXI
>> 1. turn coordinator verify
>> 2. DG verify
>> 3. compass verify
>> 4. AI verify
>> 5. controls position for wind
>>
>>
>> RUNUP
>> 1. nose straight
>> 2. parking brake set
>> 3. taxi light off
>> 4. controls free and correct
>> 5. 6-pack check
>> 6. avionics set as required
>> 7. mixture rich
>> 8. fuel selector right
>> 9. throttle 1700 rpm
>> 10. oil pressure/temp check
>> 11. vacuum check
>> 12. ammeter check under load
>> 13. magnetos check
>> 14. carb heat check
>> 15. idle check
>> 16. fuel selector both
>> 17. primer verify locked
>>
>>
>> PRE-TAKE-OFF
>> 1. mixture as required
>> 2. fuel selector both
>> 3. carb heat off
>> 4. primer locked
>> 5. flaps as required
>> 6. trim for t/o
>> 7. take-off briefing complete
>> BRIEFING:
>> 1. rotation speed
>> 2. best glide speed
>> 3. runway required
>> 4. runway available
>> 5. engine quits: a. before rotation - abort take-off
>> b. below 800' agl - land straigt ahead +/- 30deg
>> c. above 800' agl - turn (which way) for
>> landing on (which) runway
>> 8. seat belts secure
>> 9. doors & windows locked
>>
>>
>> TAKE-OFF
>> 1. landing light on
>> 2. strobes on
>> 3. transponder mode C
>> 4. DG verify runway heading
>> 5. time note
>> 6. engine rpm verify full power
>> 7. oil pressure/temp in the green
>> 8. airspeed alive
>>
>>
>> PRE-LANDING
>> 1. mixture rich
>> 2. fuel selector both
>> 3. primer locked
>> 4. landing light on
>> 5. seat belts secure
>> 6. brakes check pressure
>> 7. carb heat as required
>
> how would you know? (eg it's about to be required - how can you tell
> that situation. Me.. carb heat ON (as I throttle back at end of
> downwind). And I turn it back OFF established final (ready for full
> power at anytime thereafter, and knowing it's had a good application
> just prior.
>
>
>> 8. flaps as required
>>
>>
>> POST-LANDING
>> 1. carb heat off
>> 2. flaps up
>> 3. transponder standby
>> 4. landing light off
>> 5. strobes off
>> 6. time note
>> ==============================================
>
> Jeez that's a lot of checks n' stuff - some doubled up, eg controls full
> and free (only need to do that as ye pre-t/o - well that's what
> methinks).
>
> A very comprehensive list I might add.
>
> --
> Duncan

Jon Woellhaf

January 19th 07, 08:09 PM

Responding to comments about the usefulness/uselessness of calling "Clear
prop," before cranking, Barney Rubble wrote
> Quite often on the ramp at my home field a nearby pilot will call "All
> clear" in response to my "clear", as he can see the area directly in front
> of and underneath the nose. ...

I would have appreciated a negative response the three of four times I've
overlooked nose wheel chocks and had to shut down to remove them. I know
someone saw me do this at least once.

Alan Gerber

January 20th 07, 01:33 AM

Barney Rubble > wrote:
> Oh
> and take the headset off or uncover one ear, just in case someone is
> shouting something at you (like don't start, there's a kid playing with the
> prop).

I don't even put the headset on until after start. I figure my ears can
take a few seconds of engine noise, and it lets me hear things I might
need to hear - like different engine sounds, or somebody shouting
something at me before I start.

.... Alan

--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

KevinBlack

January 20th 07, 08:12 AM

"Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message
...
>
> Everybody's using checklists.

.....snip....

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/

Just about every GA checklist you might want and all free.

HTH,
Kevin

=============================

EridanMan

January 20th 07, 09:33 AM

Great Thread Guys-

"CLEAR the PROP" is a call I've had drilled into me from my first
flight... its one of those things that, ok, maybe its not the 'coolest'
thing in the world (in the James Bond sense of the word), and although
its probably completely and obviously worthless 99% of the time (I've
gotten odd looks from Pax calling clear out the window at 9:00pm on a
completely deserted tarmac before)... I figure if only once in my
entire pilot life my 'clear prop' habit comes in useful (either
convenience or safety)... anyone, then its worth the extra few seconds
during each startup.

As for Checklists...

Frankly, I've fallen for the "flow-check" mentality. I think a huge
part of this for me is the fact that I own (and exclusively fly) my
ship... so I know her inside out. I take great pains to do everything
identically each flight... I still use checklists for engine start,
and I have them on the yoke for emergencies, but for general flying
(more explicitly, for engine start, pre-takeoff, post-takeoff, cruise,
pre-landing and post-landing (cleanup), I have a VERY explicit litteral
"flow" that I run my eyes across the panel and check everything in my
path.

My Pre flight check - this is entirely from memory, visualizing my
approach and walk around the plane.

PA-28-140

In the cockpit:

Key - above Panel.
Pilot Window - Open
Control Lock - Release
Master Switch - On
Pitot Heat - On
Nav Lights - On
Landing Light - On
Beacon - On
Flaps - Down
Fuel - note gauges
Sump strainer and Oil Towel - Grab

Walkaround (Start from door):

Beacon - Check
Tail Nav Light - Check
Right Wing Nav light - Check
(swing wide in front of aircraft)
Landing Light - Check
"Macro Fuselage Check" (is there any obvious asymmetry?)
Left Wing Light - Check
Pitot Heat - check (at this point, the Pitot-Static Fin should be
lukewarm to the touch)
Stall Warning - Check (Stall light should illuminate on panel when
switch flipped)

Walk to pilot Window, reach arm in Cockpit:
All switches off (starting inside and working out, so master switch is
last)

Back to Preflight:
Left Wheel Chalk
Left Wheel Brake Pad/Rotor
Left Wheel hoses
Left Wing Tiedown
Left Fuel Vent
Left Fuel Sump check
Left Fuel Tank - Visual open and inspect... consistent with gauge
reading?
Left Wingtip - Undamaged
Left wing skin (put eye at an oblique angle to the wing and move my
head 360 degrees around the airfoil)
Left Airleron counterweight - Present and firm
Left Airleron Travel - free and correct ( Does the yoke move correctly?
any binding?)
Left Airleron Hinge outer - pin present
Left Airleron Hinge inner - pin present
Left Airleron Control Linkage - Firm, pin present
Left Flap Hinge All Bolts Present
Left Flap, pressure test, outer. middle, inner(firm push downward on
flap, noting any looseness)
left flap, control linkage, firm and pinned
3 antenna present
Anti-Servo Hinges, 1,2,3,4, pins present
Stabilator/ anti-servo tab Travel, free and correct (stand on right
side of stabalator, view yoke through open door)
Rudder - High Hinge - Present
Rudder - Gap and hinge look nominal
Fuselage skin - Check (again, oblique angle, 360 degrees around the
entire fuselage noting any inconsistancies)
Stabilator rigging/anti-servo - Everything connected, nothing binding
Transponder Antenna Fin - Present
Rear Tiedown - untied
Right Flap, control Linkage firm and pinned
Right Flap, Pressure Test, inner, middle, outer
Right Flap Hinge - All Bolts Present
Right Airleron Control Linkage - Firm and Pin Present
Right Airleron Hinges, inner, outer - pin present
Right Airleron Counterweight - present and secure
Right Airleron motion, free and correct
Right Wing Skin - unblemished
Right Fuel Tank Level - Consistent with panel reading
Right wheel chalk/tiedown removed
Right wheel brake/pads
Right wheel linkages
Right Tank Vent
Right Tank Sump.
Open Right Cowling
Oil Level
Vacuum pump - inspect
Steering Linkages - inspect
Exhaust - Grab and yank
Fore-Cowling clear (no birdies)
Cowing Baffle - correct shape, condition
Close right cowling making sure Baffling is laying correctly.
Check cowling latches, rear - fore.
Prop
Spinner
Alternator Belt
Nose - No birdies
Intake
Front Strut - grab prop and compress
Front gear
Open Left Cowling
Brake Fluid Level
Check General Engine Condition
CHT/EGT Sensors
Left Baffling
Close Left Cowling (Assuring correct Baffling position)
Nose Fuel Sump.
Verbally Declare "I declare this aircraft is Airworthy and ready to
fly" (This is a tremendously important to me personally, if admittedly
somewhat pointlessly symbolic)

-

The whole idea behind all of this is that each action flows into the
action before and the action after it, and that they're associated with
eachother so that I don't forget anything...

I know it would give me fits flying any aircraft other than my own
particular bird... but hey, I down own my own plane to go flying other
aircraft, you know? (and I'm not rich enough to upgrade any time soon;)

Anyways - For what its worth, of course.
-Scott
On Jan 20, 12:12 am, "KevinBlack" > wrote:
> "Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in et...
>
>
>
> > Everybody's using checklists.....snip....
>
> http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/
>
> Just about every GA checklist you might want and all free.
>
> HTH,
> Kevin
>
> =============================

Jim Macklin

January 20th 07, 10:04 AM

Larry Dighera

January 20th 07, 11:55 AM

On 20 Jan 2007 01:33:16 -0800, "EridanMan" >
wrote in om>:

>As for Checklists...
>
>Frankly, I've fallen for the "flow-check" mentality. I think a huge
>part of this for me is the fact that I own (and exclusively fly) my
>ship... so I know her inside out.

A (good) checklist is an integrated whole, a system that comprises
more than the sum of its parts. For instance, I start on the
less-full tank, then at run-up there's an item to switch to the
fullest tank. This verifies fuel flow from two tanks. A flow-check
won't guarantee that sort of thing.

Travis Marlatte

January 20th 07, 02:42 PM

"EridanMan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Great Thread Guys-
>
> "CLEAR the PROP" is a call I've had drilled into me from my first
> flight... its one of those things that, ok, maybe its not the 'coolest'
> thing in the world (in the James Bond sense of the word), and although
> its probably completely and obviously worthless 99% of the time (I've
> gotten odd looks from Pax calling clear out the window at 9:00pm on a
> completely deserted tarmac before)... I figure if only once in my
> entire pilot life my 'clear prop' habit comes in useful (either
> convenience or safety)... anyone, then its worth the extra few seconds
> during each startup.

I always yell it out. It was part of my training on a busy, instructional
ramp. People (including new students) walking between the planes to get to
the next row, etc. It seemed completely necessary and became very natural.
Then, with seaplane training - same thing. Starting up close to a dock or
shore. You never know when someone (especially kids) will run out to watch.
And, in my case with the engine behind me, there is always that chance that
I might have drifted back into something. Yelling it out and waiting a few
seconds gives someone a chance to get out of the way or to call out a
conflict.

I was once flying a rented 150 at a small, country airport in Minnesota. I
yelled "Clear Prop" and clearly heard a couple of weathered pilots standing
nearby - "You don't hear that too often." I'm not exactly sure what their
point was. I don't know if they were making fun of me for bothering or
praising me for doing what has become unusual. Either way, after thinking it
through, I am more convinced than ever that it can't hurt and, for the
uninitiated passengers, adds a little sense of bravado. As in throwing the
white silk scarf over the shoulder, lowering the goggles, "Contact" sort of
way.

Safety first. Fly safe.
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Jay Honeck

January 20th 07, 02:58 PM

> I was once flying a rented 150 at a small, country airport in Minnesota. I
> yelled "Clear Prop" and clearly heard a couple of weathered pilots standing
> nearby - "You don't hear that too often." I'm not exactly sure what their
> point was. I don't know if they were making fun of me for bothering or
> praising me for doing what has become unusual.

I don't know any single engine pilots who don't yell "Clear!" before
starting.

WRT checklists, Mary and I have very different techniques. I use the
"flow-check" method, which means I do everything in a very specific
order, geographically, each and every time. Because we fly the same
plane all the time, it has become ingrained, and I can do it in my
sleep.

Mary, on the other hand, uses a laminated checklist, and methodically
goes down the list.

We tend to cross-check each other, and -- although it's exceedingly
rare -- we *do* find the other person forgetting something once in a
while.

One thing I've noticed with a written checklist is that it's easy to
run your finger down it, say it out loud -- and NOT SEE IT. I don't
know why that is, but I find that I'm more likely to actually LOOK AT
what I'm checking if I use my mental flow-chart.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Bob Moore

January 20th 07, 04:01 PM

Jay Honeck wrote
> WRT checklists, Mary and I have very different techniques. I use the
> "flow-check" method, which means I do everything in a very specific
> order, geographically, each and every time.
> Mary, on the other hand, uses a laminated checklist, and methodically
> goes down the list.

The airline "system" is to use the "flow" as a "do-list" and follow-up
with the written checklist as a real "checklist", not as a "do-list".

Bob Moore

Jay Honeck

January 20th 07, 08:05 PM

> > WRT checklists, Mary and I have very different techniques. I use the
> > "flow-check" method, which means I do everything in a very specific
> > order, geographically, each and every time.
> > Mary, on the other hand, uses a laminated checklist, and methodically
> > goes down the list.
>
> The airline "system" is to use the "flow" as a "do-list" and follow-up
> with the written checklist as a real "checklist", not as a "do-list".

Cool! Nice to know we've got the best of both worlds, so long as we
fly together...

However, it is possible for BOTH of us to miss stuff, amazingly. On
our last flight we were ten minutes out when Mary noticed that the left
tip tank was reading low, apparently down about 5 gallons.

For a few minutes we were left wondering if the quick drain was
leaking, since she had visually looked in the tank and prounounced it
full. Then we thought maybe the gauge was bad, when we couldn't see
any gas streaming out behind the wing.

Finally I remembered refueling from the New Grape (see it here:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/new_mighty_grape.htm ) a few days earlier.
At that time I had asked Mary to check the tip, to see if it needed
any gas, and she had responded that it was full -- so I never topped it
off.

Because of the dihedral of our wing, the tip tanks can look close to
full and actually be down about 5 gallons. She had simply
misinterpreted the visual inspection twice.

The fact that we BOTH missed the lower-than-normal gauge during
preflight (although technically Mary was PIC, so my checks were only
acting as back-up) illustrates how this sort of thing *is* possible,
even with two sets of eyes. Luckily, "only" having 79 gallons of gas
on board isn't much of an emergency...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

EridanMan

January 20th 07, 10:09 PM

On Jan 20, 2:04 am, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:
> On the ground, if you let the pitot heat run very long, the
> probe will over heat [I've seen a lot that looked like a
> motorcycle exhaust (blue)] and if you touch it you'll raise
> blisters. Turn it on and check the ammeter or voltmeter for
> a drop, after a few seconds ON, turn the pitot heat OFF
> before you leave the cabin to begin the walk around. It
> will be warm then.
> If you want to see a real mess, turn it on with the pitot
> cover in place, if it is a plastic cover, it will melt.

Hehe, I suppose that's probably a hint to me that I should have my
pitot heat checked;)

Granted, the way things flow, the time from when I hit the pitot heat
switch, to the time I check the pitot is almost always a little over a
minute (and I had noticed a few times that if I was distracted between
the two steps, the pitot would be rather uncomfortably warm by the time
I got to it.

I suppose it makes sense that it will simply continue to heat until it
reaches equilibrium with the air, and seeing as the plane is hurdling
at 100mph through sub-freezing air, that equilibrium point is probably
pretty warm.

Something to keep in mind.

One of my biggest problems with checklists is just the logistic of
using a laminated checklist - keeping your place, making sure you don't
miss a line, etc. The PDA checklists on the market are all ludicrously
badly designed too, required the use of a stylus (???) using tiny text,
and making users hit checkboxes... duh?

I've played around with the idea of writing my own checklist PDA app.
Basically, the idea I was thinking off was that each step on the
checklist would be written in large, high-contrast text on the top
2/3rds of the screen (possibly with illustrations of the guage/element
showing in and out of tolerance states), with the entire lower 3rd of
the screen being one being hand-pressable 'CHECK' button that would
require a specific gesture (think, quick down and up) to press (to
prevent accidental presses).

Dave[_3_]

January 21st 07, 01:05 AM

Agreed!

Park in the left seat of a Cessna 195, or even a 185,,,

Lotta ramp out there you can't see..

Dave

On 19 Jan 2007 00:17:39 -0800, wrote:

>Duncan (NZ) wrote:
>> If you can't see them, then they're nowhere near the prop (unless
>> they're sneakin' about on their bellies under the fuselage somewhere -
>
>Or they are a child, or you are in a tail dragger with zero forward vis
>on the ground.