Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center

[Mxsmanic]

What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
rule?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[A Lieberma]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
> rule?

Please don't feed this troll...... He is not flying, only simming.

Allen

[paul k. sanchez]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
> rule?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I'm sure you'd be able to find out the answer to this question by being
in aircraft for 10 hours. Get together with an instrument instructor
and do about 10 flight hours doing departures/enroute/arrivals. Note
down on your sectional where the handoff occurred. That would be the
best way for you to learn the reality of your question. Since of course
you are paying this instrument instructor (and of course renting the
aircraft) I'm sure the quality (and relevance) of the answers will be
much higher. I'd suggest a G1000 C182.

[Sam Spade]

A Lieberma wrote:

> Mxsmanic > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>>ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>>indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>>who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>>between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>>rule?
>
>
> Please don't feed this troll...... He is not flying, only simming.
>
> Allen

Boy, you have that one right. And, "flying" MSFS isn't even "simming."

[Newps]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
> rule?
>


It's a secret. You don't have clearance. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Sam Spade]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>> rule?
>>
>
>
> It's a secret. You don't have clearance. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Now, not only does he play pilot, he is playing ATC chief.

[Mxsmanic]

Sam Spade writes:

> Now, not only does he play pilot, he is playing ATC chief.

I was under the impression that Newps has some experience with both
piloting and ATC, although one can never be sure of anything on
USENET.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Ronnie]

The Air Traffic Control System Command Center owns all controlled
airsapce in the US. They allocate authority to 21 ATC Centers via letters
of authorization (LOA) that specify the lateral and vertical boundaries of
each
center's airspace. The centers divide their airspace up into high alititude
and low altitude areas with each sub-divided into multiple sectors. The
laterial
and vertical boundaries of each sector are designed to handle the particular
geographical area and traffic flows.

Centers delegate authority to the approach / departure radar facilities
(TRACONs)
within their airspace via letters of authorization that define the lateral
and vertical
boundaries of the TRACON's airspace. There are 197 TRACONs in the US as of
the last time I checked.

TRACONs in turn grant airspace autority via LOA to the tower facilities
within
their airspace. Again, laterial and vertical boundaries are defined in the
LOA.

Handoffs occur when a flight crosses a boundary between facilities or
sectors.
None of the charts show all these boundaries. Sectionals show controlled
airspace
associated with an airport terminal area, but there usually multiple sectors
within a
large TRACON. Low altitude IFR En Route charts show the center boundaries,
but not the sector boundaries. Frequencies as charted for the various
sectors in a
general area, but these are not always the frequencies that a flight will be
given during
a handoff. Instrument flights deal with this by simply following the
instructions
given by ATC; eg. "N54321 contact Memphis Center on 134.25." We don't
concern our selves about where the boundaries are, because we will be
prompted
during the hand-off. Also, you may be given a hand-off before or after you
cross
an ATC boundary, depending on controller work load, his ability to
coordinate with
the receiving controller, and aircraft speed.

Should you miss a hand-off or get out of range before a hand-off occurs,
simply find
a center frequency or TRACON frequency within range and call to re-establish
communication. If you are not on the correct frequency, the controller will
get you
to the correct one.



"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
> rule?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Sam Spade]

Good answer. Next question: why isn't all airspace in the United States
controlled airspace?

Ronnie wrote:

> The Air Traffic Control System Command Center owns all controlled
> airsapce in the US. They allocate authority to 21 ATC Centers via letters
> of authorization (LOA) that specify the lateral and vertical boundaries of
> each
> center's airspace. The centers divide their airspace up into high alititude
> and low altitude areas with each sub-divided into multiple sectors. The
> laterial
> and vertical boundaries of each sector are designed to handle the particular
> geographical area and traffic flows.
>
> Centers delegate authority to the approach / departure radar facilities
> (TRACONs)
> within their airspace via letters of authorization that define the lateral
> and vertical
> boundaries of the TRACON's airspace. There are 197 TRACONs in the US as of
> the last time I checked.
>
> TRACONs in turn grant airspace autority via LOA to the tower facilities
> within
> their airspace. Again, laterial and vertical boundaries are defined in the
> LOA.
>
> Handoffs occur when a flight crosses a boundary between facilities or
> sectors.
> None of the charts show all these boundaries. Sectionals show controlled
> airspace
> associated with an airport terminal area, but there usually multiple sectors
> within a
> large TRACON. Low altitude IFR En Route charts show the center boundaries,
> but not the sector boundaries. Frequencies as charted for the various
> sectors in a
> general area, but these are not always the frequencies that a flight will be
> given during
> a handoff. Instrument flights deal with this by simply following the
> instructions
> given by ATC; eg. "N54321 contact Memphis Center on 134.25." We don't
> concern our selves about where the boundaries are, because we will be
> prompted
> during the hand-off. Also, you may be given a hand-off before or after you
> cross
> an ATC boundary, depending on controller work load, his ability to
> coordinate with
> the receiving controller, and aircraft speed.
>
> Should you miss a hand-off or get out of range before a hand-off occurs,
> simply find
> a center frequency or TRACON frequency within range and call to re-establish
> communication. If you are not on the correct frequency, the controller will
> get you
> to the correct one.
>
>
>
> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>>ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>>indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>>who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>>between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>>rule?
>>
>>--
>>Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
>
>
>

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Spade ]
> Posted At: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:44 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
> Conversation: Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center
> Subject: Re: Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center
>
> Good answer. Next question: why isn't all airspace in the United
States
> controlled airspace?
>

Let me guess: we haven't paid enough taxes yet and don't own it all?

[Allan9]

Thought most all IFR handoffs were automated?
Al


"Ronnie" > wrote in message
et...
> The Air Traffic Control System Command Center owns all controlled
> airsapce in the US. They allocate authority to 21 ATC Centers via letters
> of authorization (LOA) that specify the lateral and vertical boundaries of
> each
> center's airspace. The centers divide their airspace up into high
> alititude
> and low altitude areas with each sub-divided into multiple sectors. The
> laterial
> and vertical boundaries of each sector are designed to handle the
> particular
> geographical area and traffic flows.
>
> Centers delegate authority to the approach / departure radar facilities
> (TRACONs)
> within their airspace via letters of authorization that define the lateral
> and vertical
> boundaries of the TRACON's airspace. There are 197 TRACONs in the US as
> of
> the last time I checked.
>
> TRACONs in turn grant airspace autority via LOA to the tower facilities
> within
> their airspace. Again, laterial and vertical boundaries are defined in
> the LOA.
>
> Handoffs occur when a flight crosses a boundary between facilities or
> sectors.
> None of the charts show all these boundaries. Sectionals show controlled
> airspace
> associated with an airport terminal area, but there usually multiple
> sectors within a
> large TRACON. Low altitude IFR En Route charts show the center
> boundaries,
> but not the sector boundaries. Frequencies as charted for the various
> sectors in a
> general area, but these are not always the frequencies that a flight will
> be given during
> a handoff. Instrument flights deal with this by simply following the
> instructions
> given by ATC; eg. "N54321 contact Memphis Center on 134.25." We don't
> concern our selves about where the boundaries are, because we will be
> prompted
> during the hand-off. Also, you may be given a hand-off before or after
> you cross
> an ATC boundary, depending on controller work load, his ability to
> coordinate with
> the receiving controller, and aircraft speed.
>
> Should you miss a hand-off or get out of range before a hand-off occurs,
> simply find
> a center frequency or TRACON frequency within range and call to
> re-establish
> communication. If you are not on the correct frequency, the controller
> will get you
> to the correct one.
>
>
>
> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>> rule?
>>
>> --
>> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
>
>

[Mxsmanic]

Ronnie writes:

> The Air Traffic Control System Command Center owns all controlled
> airsapce in the US. [...]

Thanks for the excellent explanation!

Are the boundaries fixed at all times, or can they vary by time of
day, day of week, etc.?

Are the LOAs confidential, or simply not generally published?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Sam Spade writes:

> Good answer. Next question: why isn't all airspace in the United States
> controlled airspace?

Why should it be?

The main reason for controlled airspace is to keep aircraft from
hitting each other when they cannot see each other. A lesser reason
is to optimize traffic flow in areas of heavy traffic. If traffic is
not heavy and aircraft can maintain visual separation, they don't need
controlled airspace.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Newps]

Mxsmanic wrote:

>
>
> I was under the impression that Newps has some experience with both
> piloting and ATC,


I forget.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
information under the freedom of information act.

[Newps]

Viperdoc wrote:

> They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
> information under the freedom of information act.

They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount
of time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9
til 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of
careful planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level
management and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all
IFR aircraft will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too
constricting so center wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't
want to call for each one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a
call for each request. So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn
boundaries but they are almost never used in that manner.

[Mxsmanic]

Viperdoc writes:

> They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
> information under the freedom of information act.

Why are they considered confidential? Are there terrorists eager to
know where one controller's airspace ends and another's airspace
begins?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Newps:

Sorry, I was sending some poorly disguised cynicism to the village idiot,
hoping he would go away.

I am aware of the LOAs and general ATC structure.

Thanks.
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Viperdoc wrote:
>
>> They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
>> information under the freedom of information act.
>
> They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
> information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
> useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
> Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
> decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
> can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount of
> time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
> virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
> from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9 til
> 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of careful
> planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level management
> and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all IFR aircraft
> will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too constricting so center
> wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't want to call for each
> one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a call for each request.
> So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn boundaries but they are
> almost never used in that manner.

[Sam Spade]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Viperdoc wrote:
>
>> They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain
>> the information under the freedom of information act.
>
>
> They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
> information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
> useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
> Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
> decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
> can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount
> of time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
> virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
> from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9
> til 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of
> careful planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level
> management and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all
> IFR aircraft will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too
> constricting so center wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't
> want to call for each one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a
> call for each request. So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn
> boundaries but they are almost never used in that manner.

For whatever it's worth, the electronic map provided with JeppView has
center boundaries. Those sometimes can be useful for flight planning
purposes. Sector boundaries have little value to pilots. And, as you
say, approach control boundaries and sectors vary vertically to the
point that is also useless information to a pilot.

[Jon]

Sam Spade wrote:
> Newps wrote:
> >
> >
> > Viperdoc wrote:
> >
> >> They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain
> >> the information under the freedom of information act.
> >
> >
> > They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
> > information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
> > useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
> > Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
> > decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
> > can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount
> > of time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
> > virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
> > from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9
> > til 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of
> > careful planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level
> > management and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all
> > IFR aircraft will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too
> > constricting so center wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't
> > want to call for each one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a
> > call for each request. So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn
> > boundaries but they are almost never used in that manner.
>
> For whatever it's worth,

Ditto...

> the electronic map provided with JeppView has
> center boundaries.

Perhaps the following helps?

<http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/> and in particular
<http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/tier/themap.htm>

> Those sometimes can be useful for flight planning
> purposes. Sector boundaries have little value to pilots. And, as you
> say, approach control boundaries and sectors vary vertically to the
> point that is also useless information to a pilot.

Regards,
Jon

[Ronnie]

I don't know, but I'm afarid we'll get there one day
as the reaches of the federal government continues
to grow. There is a control tower being built right
now at my local airport.

What's the reason?

Ronnie

"Sam Spade" > wrote in message
...
> Good answer. Next question: why isn't all airspace in the United States
> controlled airspace?
>
> Ronnie wrote:
>
>> The Air Traffic Control System Command Center owns all controlled
>> airsapce in the US. They allocate authority to 21 ATC Centers via
>> letters
>> of authorization (LOA) that specify the lateral and vertical boundaries
>> of each
>> center's airspace. The centers divide their airspace up into high
>> alititude
>> and low altitude areas with each sub-divided into multiple sectors. The
>> laterial
>> and vertical boundaries of each sector are designed to handle the
>> particular
>> geographical area and traffic flows.
>>
>> Centers delegate authority to the approach / departure radar facilities
>> (TRACONs)
>> within their airspace via letters of authorization that define the
>> lateral and vertical
>> boundaries of the TRACON's airspace. There are 197 TRACONs in the US as
>> of
>> the last time I checked.
>>
>> TRACONs in turn grant airspace autority via LOA to the tower facilities
>> within
>> their airspace. Again, laterial and vertical boundaries are defined in
>> the LOA.
>>
>> Handoffs occur when a flight crosses a boundary between facilities or
>> sectors.
>> None of the charts show all these boundaries. Sectionals show controlled
>> airspace
>> associated with an airport terminal area, but there usually multiple
>> sectors within a
>> large TRACON. Low altitude IFR En Route charts show the center
>> boundaries,
>> but not the sector boundaries. Frequencies as charted for the various
>> sectors in a
>> general area, but these are not always the frequencies that a flight will
>> be given during
>> a handoff. Instrument flights deal with this by simply following the
>> instructions
>> given by ATC; eg. "N54321 contact Memphis Center on 134.25." We don't
>> concern our selves about where the boundaries are, because we will be
>> prompted
>> during the hand-off. Also, you may be given a hand-off before or after
>> you cross
>> an ATC boundary, depending on controller work load, his ability to
>> coordinate with
>> the receiving controller, and aircraft speed.
>>
>> Should you miss a hand-off or get out of range before a hand-off occurs,
>> simply find
>> a center frequency or TRACON frequency within range and call to
>> re-establish
>> communication. If you are not on the correct frequency, the controller
>> will get you
>> to the correct one.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>>>ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>>>indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>>>who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>>>between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>>>rule?
>>>
>>>--
>>>Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
>>
>>

[Mxsmanic]

Ronnie writes:

> I don't know, but I'm afarid we'll get there one day
> as the reaches of the federal government continues
> to grow. There is a control tower being built right
> now at my local airport.
>
> What's the reason?

It's being built to help you, of course.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Newps]

Ronnie wrote:
> I don't know, but I'm afarid we'll get there one day
> as the reaches of the federal government continues
> to grow. There is a control tower being built right
> now at my local airport.

What airport?



>
> What's the reason?

It may have nothing to do with the federal government. Most new towers
these days are built because the owners of the airport(city, county,
etc) want one.

[Doug[_1_]]

JOBS

Newps wrote:
> Ronnie wrote:
> > I don't know, but I'm afarid we'll get there one day
> > as the reaches of the federal government continues
> > to grow. There is a control tower being built right
> > now at my local airport.
>
> What airport?
>
>
>
> >
> > What's the reason?
>
> It may have nothing to do with the federal government. Most new towers
> these days are built because the owners of the airport(city, county,
> etc) want one.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
> ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
> indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
> who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
> between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
> rule?

Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?

-Robert, CFII

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?

I want to know whom to contact if I'm not already in communication
with ATC.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Call Microsoft.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?
>
> I want to know whom to contact if I'm not already in communication
> with ATC.

That's only an issue in the sim world. I guess you have to worry if the
controller is taking a dump when you call? Of course I guess he may
have his laptop with him.

-Robert

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> That's only an issue in the sim world.

No, it's an issue in the real world, too, if you are flying VFR.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Newps]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>
>>That's only an issue in the sim world.
>
>
> No, it's an issue in the real world, too, if you are flying VFR.

It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
information is in many books. Start reading chief.

[Robert M. Gary]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
> > That's only an issue in the sim world.
>
> No, it's an issue in the real world, too, if you are flying VFR.

In all my years of flying VFR and IFR I've never cared if my initial
call up was answered by approach or center. I'm not sure why you are
telling me its important when my experience shows it isn't important.

-Robert, CFII

[Sam Spade]

Ronnie wrote:

> I don't know, but I'm afarid we'll get there one day
> as the reaches of the federal government continues
> to grow. There is a control tower being built right
> now at my local airport.
>
> What's the reason?
>
> Ronnie

Beats me.

That's Class D airspace.

I should have been more specific: why isn't all airspace that isn't
Class A, B, C, or D made into Class E airspace? That would make random
IFR operations easier and would impose no communications or control
requirement on VFR aircraft, although VFR weather minimums below 10,000
are affected.

[Sam Spade]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>>What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
>>ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
>>indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
>>who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
>>between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
>>rule?
>
>
> Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?
>
> -Robert, CFII
>

It affects which mic he uses at his desktop.

[Sam Spade]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>>Robert M. Gary writes:
>>
>>
>>>That's only an issue in the sim world.
>>
>>No, it's an issue in the real world, too, if you are flying VFR.
>
>
> In all my years of flying VFR and IFR I've never cared if my initial
> call up was answered by approach or center. I'm not sure why you are
> telling me its important when my experience shows it isn't important.
>
> -Robert, CFII
>
When you're IFR unless someone makes a mistake you are told who to
contact on a frequency handoff. You may not know who it is until it
happens; like who cares?

[A Lieberma]

Newps > wrote in news:
:

> It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
> information is in many books. Start reading chief.

He has no reason to read as long as people keep feeding this troll :-(

Allen

[Robert M. Gary]

> When you're IFR unless someone makes a mistake you are told who to
> contact on a frequency handoff. You may not know who it is until it
> happens; like who cares?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I don't
think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.

-Robert

[Mark Hansen]

On 01/23/07 15:26, Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> When you're IFR unless someone makes a mistake you are told who to
>> contact on a frequency handoff. You may not know who it is until it
>> happens; like who cares?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>
> Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I don't
> think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.
>
> -Robert
>

In fact, while monitoring Oakland Center during a recent flight, I heard
someone call-up by saying "NorCal Approach..." and the center controller
handled the call without even mentioning it.

However, the Center controllers and the approach/departure controllers
use different frequencies out here, so this wasn't a case of the pilot
not knowing whom to call or who he was calling.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Alan Gerber]

Mark Hansen > wrote:
> In fact, while monitoring Oakland Center during a recent flight, I heard
> someone call-up by saying "NorCal Approach..." and the center controller
> handled the call without even mentioning it.

On the other hand, FSS seems to care -- probably because they're often
called from the common frequency.

The other day, I kept trying to call Millville FSS, and they kept not
answering. After I finally remembered that Millville was closed and I
needed to call Williamsport instead, they answered right away. They
were probably waiting to see how long it would take me to realize my
mistake...

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

[Paul kgyy]

-Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I
don't
> think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.


I've been rather huffily corrected around Chicago if I use "approach"
when I should use "center". They haven't gone to the point of shooting
me down yet, though :-)

[Mxsmanic]

Sam Spade writes:

> I should have been more specific: why isn't all airspace that isn't
> Class A, B, C, or D made into Class E airspace?

That is practically the case already in much of the U.S.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Newps writes:

> It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
> information is in many books. Start reading chief.

If I'm flying VFR, what frequency do I set on my radio to talk to ATC?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Matt Whiting]

paul kgyy wrote:
>
> -Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I
> don't
>
>>think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.
>
>
>
> I've been rather huffily corrected around Chicago if I use "approach"
> when I should use "center". They haven't gone to the point of shooting
> me down yet, though :-)
>

Don't worry, Chicago only has bulldozers.

Matt

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 4:45 pm, "paul kgyy" > wrote:
> -Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I
> don't
>
> > think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.I've been rather huffily corrected around Chicago if I use "approach"
> when I should use "center". They haven't gone to the point of shooting
> me down yet, though :-)

I guess working a "center" is probably an increase in pay grade and
they want you to know it. ;) Kinda like calling a Captain, Lt.

-Robert

[John Theune]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Newps writes:
>
>> It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
>> information is in many books. Start reading chief.
>
> If I'm flying VFR, what frequency do I set on my radio to talk to ATC?
>
If you have not bothered to find this out before you take off, look on
your sectional and find the nearest towered airport. Call the tower on
the freq that is listed on the sectional and ask them. Barring that you
could call FSS and ask them.

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

Find the nearest TFR from the NOTAMSs you studied before you departed,
or find the nearest Prohibited area on your VFR chart, fly into either
of them and tune your radio to 121.5. You'll talk to someone eventually.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mxsmanic ]
> Posted At: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:57 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
> Conversation: Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center
> Subject: Re: Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center
>
> Newps writes:
>
> > It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
> > information is in many books. Start reading chief.
>
> If I'm flying VFR, what frequency do I set on my radio to talk to ATC?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Sam Spade]

John Theune wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> Newps writes:
>>
>>> It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
>>> information is in many books. Start reading chief.
>>
>>
>> If I'm flying VFR, what frequency do I set on my radio to talk to ATC?
>>
> If you have not bothered to find this out before you take off, look on
> your sectional and find the nearest towered airport. Call the tower on
> the freq that is listed on the sectional and ask them. Barring that you
> could call FSS and ask them.

You are feeding a troll.

[Sam Spade]

Jim Carter wrote:

> Find the nearest TFR from the NOTAMSs you studied before you departed,
> or find the nearest Prohibited area on your VFR chart, fly into either
> of them and tune your radio to 121.5. You'll talk to someone eventually.

P-51 would be an excellent choice for him (or her?) But, first he or
she would have to take some flying lessons.

[Sam Spade]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

>
> On Jan 23, 4:45 pm, "paul kgyy" > wrote:
>
>>-Even during a handoff I'll sometimes forget what the agency is. I
>>don't
>>
>>
>>>think ATC is offended if I call them approach or center.I've been rather huffily corrected around Chicago if I use "approach"
>>
>>when I should use "center". They haven't gone to the point of shooting
>>me down yet, though :-)
>
>
> I guess working a "center" is probably an increase in pay grade and
> they want you to know it. ;) Kinda like calling a Captain, Lt.
>
> -Robert
>
I'll bet the O'Hare troops make more than most center controllers.

[Newps]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Newps writes:
>
>
>>It's not an issue. IFR or VFR. A real pilot knows this. This
>>information is in many books. Start reading chief.
>
>
> If I'm flying VFR, what frequency do I set on my radio to talk to ATC?




It's written in a number of places and on certain broadcasts.