Blood Oxygen level question.

[Udo]

How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
Udo

[Mike[_8_]]

Udo,

I found the following helpful when looking for answers and solutions.

http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/pulseox/index.html

Mike

On Jan 26, 10:09 am, "Udo" > wrote:
> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
> Udo

[nimbus]

I am also looking for the following information:

Oxygen consumption in function of altitude, age of pilot.

The objective is to determine when I have to go down when I see a
specific oxygen pressure in my bottle.

Many thanks for any help.
Bruno

On 26 jan, 19:14, "Mike" > wrote:
> Udo,
>
> I found the following helpful when looking for answers and solutions.
>
> http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/pulseox/index.html
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 26, 10:09 am, "Udo" > wrote:
>
> > How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> > ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
> > Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> > average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> > that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> > oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> > cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> > level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
> > Udo

[Craig]

My experience with a pulse oxymeter in an altitude chamber was that
blood oxygen levels responds very quickly to changes in available
oxygen. This was reinforced by the instructor also. Just breathing
once or twice from the mouth while using a cannula will reduce blood
oxygen, but it recovers quickly when breathing through the nose
resumes.

The altitude chamber instructor cited loss of visual acuity and night
vision over 5,000 ft. and also emphasized that prior exposure to even
very small amounts of carbon monoxide prior to or during flight
significantly reduces blood oxygen due to COs much higher affinity for
hemoglobin.

Best regards,
Craig

[Shawn]

Udo wrote:
> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?

Seconds really if you start sufficient flow. The body is good at
getting O2 into the blood. However side effects may linger (e.g. headache).

> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> average person?

Average? A 55 kg 26 year old female who walks 10 miles every day would
be a good baseline for an average healthy human YMMV :-)
*Your* best bet is to buy a pulse oximeter (e.g. Nonin 9500) available
for less than 200 USD these days, check your resting pO2, then go fly.
Go on O2 and titrate it accordingly to maintain that normal oxygen level.

Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?

As altitude increases, the kidneys dump water (altitude diuresis). The
problems associated with dehydration are being discussed (or ignored) in
other threads, so avoid one cause of the problem and keep the O2 on.
As for what level of saturation is optimum, why let it drop any below
normal resting?


Shawn

[HL Falbaum]

We can get very scientific here, but why?
Oxygen is cheap--get a pulseox and use it ia few times, then spot check.
Sometimes the flowmeters are "off" a bit.
If you must conserve, due to lack of supply, then aim for a pO2 of greater
than 90.
If it is necessary to conserve often, then get a bigger supply, or be more
efficient, such as a EDS (medical equivalent is a CPAP)--
Hartley Falbaum

"Shawn" > wrote in message
. ..
> Udo wrote:
>> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
>> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
>
> Seconds really if you start sufficient flow. The body is good at getting
> O2 into the blood. However side effects may linger (e.g. headache).
>
>> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
>> average person?
>
> Average? A 55 kg 26 year old female who walks 10 miles every day would be
> a good baseline for an average healthy human YMMV :-)
> *Your* best bet is to buy a pulse oximeter (e.g. Nonin 9500) available for
> less than 200 USD these days, check your resting pO2, then go fly. Go on
> O2 and titrate it accordingly to maintain that normal oxygen level.
>
> Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
>> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
>> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
>> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
>> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
>
> As altitude increases, the kidneys dump water (altitude diuresis). The
> problems associated with dehydration are being discussed (or ignored) in
> other threads, so avoid one cause of the problem and keep the O2 on.
> As for what level of saturation is optimum, why let it drop any below
> normal resting?
>
>
> Shawn

[Shawn]

HL Falbaum wrote:
> We can get very scientific here, but why?

I used to work in a hemoglobin research lab and my wife is a science
geek M.D. I could bore you to tears. :-)


> Oxygen is cheap--get a pulseox and use it ia few times, then spot check.
> Sometimes the flowmeters are "off" a bit.
> If you must conserve, due to lack of supply, then aim for a pO2 of greater
> than 90.
> If it is necessary to conserve often, then get a bigger supply, or be more
> efficient, such as a EDS (medical equivalent is a CPAP)--

CPAP is something else, for treating breathing problems during sleep.
Hopefully you won't need one of those flying!


Shawn

[HL Falbaum]

"Shawn" > wrote in message
. ..
> HL Falbaum wrote:
>> We can get very scientific here, but why?
>
> I used to work in a hemoglobin research lab and my wife is a science geek
> M.D. I could bore you to tears. :-)
>
>
>> Oxygen is cheap--get a pulseox and use it ia few times, then spot check.
>> Sometimes the flowmeters are "off" a bit.
>> If you must conserve, due to lack of supply, then aim for a pO2 of
>> greater than 90.
>> If it is necessary to conserve often, then get a bigger supply, or be
>> more efficient, such as a EDS (medical equivalent is a CPAP)--
>
> CPAP is something else, for treating breathing problems during sleep.
> Hopefully you won't need one of those flying!
>
>
> Shawn


My apologies to the group--I re-read my post and must correct an error--

I know the difference between pO2 and SaO2. My "90" number is SaO2, of
course. This is the number you get from your pulseox meter.

Major brain disconnect on the CPAP

Sorry

Hartley Falbaum

[raulb]

I recently spent A LOT of time in the hospital on oxygen 24/7. It was
found that if, when I was active (exercise) and my blood ox level went
down to 80-85 or so, sitting for a minute or so on the oxygen (2
liters/minute) and it would be back up to around 96--and this was with
a partially collapsed lung. It was, however, also at about 200 ft MSL
and not at 15k.

On Jan 26, 9:09 am, "Udo" > wrote:
> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
> Udo

[Richard[_1_]]

On Jan 26, 9:09 am, "Udo" > wrote:
> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
> Udo

[Richard[_1_]]

Subtle hypoxic effects begin at 5,000 ft., particularly noticeable at
night. In the average individual, night vision will be blurred and
narrowed. Also, dark adaptation will be compromised. At 8,000 ft.,
night vision is reduced as much as 24% without supplemental oxygen.
Some of the effects of hypoxia will be noticed during the daylight at
these altitudes without supplemental oxygen during long flights, i.e. 3
to 5 hours.

At 10,000 ft. the oxygen pressure in the atmosphere is about 10 psia.
Accounting for the dilution effect of water vapor and carbon dioxide in
the alveoli, this is not enough to deliver a normal (or less than
needed) supply of oxygen into the lungs. This mild deficiency is
ordinarily of no great consequence. However, flying at an altitude of
about 10,000 ft. (not taking density altitude into account) for 3 to 5
hours will more likely than not cause fatigue in which the pilot may
have compromised performance once he enters his destination. Since the
beginning of powered flight, pilots have reported experiencing
difficulty in concentrating, reasoning, judging, solving problems and
making precise adjustments of aircraft controls under prolonged flight
conditions at altitudes as low as 8,000 ft. MSL.

Please see my website for the entire article

http://www.craggyaero.com/o2_systems.htm

I turn on my Mountain High EDS system to the D5 setting which starts
delivering O2 at 5000 and continues the correct protocol as you climb.

I like to keep my O2 level above 92%. Things like breathing through
you mouth and holding you breath are common and show immediately on a
pulse oximeter.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Jan 26, 9:09 am, "Udo" > wrote:
> How long does it take for the blood oxygen level to normalize at 15000
> ft, after one discovers the flow meter was not adjusted correctly?
> Also at what altitude does Oxygen become beneficial, assuming an
> average person? Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
> that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
> oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
> cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
> level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
> Udo

[Eric Greenwell]

nimbus wrote:
> I am also looking for the following information:
>
> Oxygen consumption in function of altitude, age of pilot.
>

Udo, Bruno: Averages are no good - you are an individual and can vary
greatly from the averages. A finger oximeter like the SPO unit is ~$200.
Get one, use it, and you will know how well you and your oxygen system
are functioning - no guessing.

> The objective is to determine when I have to go down when I see a
> specific oxygen pressure in my bottle.

My EDS system uses about 100 psi per hour at 18,000', so the real
problem is accurately reading the little gage on the bottle. It's not
very precise and it's hard to read anyway, because it's small. So, when
it's a couple hundred psi from the empty point, I descend. Normally, I
change the bottle out before there is a chance it will get within 500
psi of empty.

Also, I marked the actual zero point on the gage when the bottles were
empty. The zero is off on both of them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Stealth Pilot]

On 26 Jan 2007 09:09:22 -0800, "Udo" > wrote:

> Are there any factors, other then altitude it self,
>that can lower Blood oxygen level during flight assuming supplemental
>oxygen is not used between 5000 and 10000 ft and the pilot has a normal
>cardio vascular health? What oxygen level is considered optimum at sea
>level and 10000ft to 15000ft?
>Udo

other factors.....

obesity has an adverse effect. you will see the effects of hypoxia
appearing at a lower level. cabin altitude of around 8,000ft in
commercial airliners is at the level above which obese people will
start showing effects. a lean lerson will probably have the onset of
effects around 12,000ft.

cigarette smoking loads up the system with carbon monoxide which
reacts out some of the haemoglobin and reduces the oxygen transport
capacity of the blood. this can give a smoker an apparent 5000ft
increase in altitude over a non smoker. carbon monoxide in a glider
shouldnt be a risk.

optimum blood oxygenation would be above 98% at any altitude.

it is a complex issue. the oxygen transport ability of the blood is
not a straight line graph and it varies with blood pH. (Co2 levels)

what is important is that your oxygen system maintains oxygen at an
adequate partial pressure. simply supplying oxygen is only part of the
picture. you must supply it at sufficient partial pressure to overcome
the resistence to permeation in the lung tissue.
I havent the figures to hand but over a ceratin altitude a nasal
canula wont work and you need a full pressure mask. I think it is
nominally about 18,000ft

the simplest path out of the mess is to use a functioning finger clip
laser pulse/oxymeter. consider a blood oxygen level below 92 as
something warranting action and make sure you have working batteries.

dont hold your breath....
Stealth Pilot