"Urgent Wind Chill Advisory"

[Jay Honeck]

We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
statistically the coldest week of the year.

Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
"extreme wind chills". My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
Channel) is now blinking red, warning me (and millions of others) to
dress warmly, and to not go outside. Heavens, what will we all do?

We are, of course, planning to fly to Wisconsin today, and Mary's been
at work for several hours. I'll be leaving shortly with the kids.

Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself?
We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...

It is to weep...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

[snip]
> "extreme wind chills". My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
> Channel) is now blinking red, warning me (and millions of others) to
> dress warmly, and to not go outside. Heavens, what will we all do?


The NWS issued a wind chill warning for Melbourne FL last week. It
was so "cold" I could actually see my breath! :-)

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
> statistically the coldest week of the year.
>
<<<snip>>>
>
> Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself?
> We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
> Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
> issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...
>
> It is to weep...
> --
> Jay Honeck

The nanny state lives. Roadside signs are (at least to me), the most common
expression. E.G.: "Bridge May Ice in Winter", "Slippery when Wet". Who
knew???

Imagine the possibilities for signage. At the beach: "Don't look Directly
into the Sun.", "Sun Exposure causes Skin Cancer", "Danger: Water"...

The possibilities are endless. I think I'll start a sign business.

KB

[GrtArtiste]

On Jan 28, 8:51 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
> statistically the coldest week of the year.

<snip>
>
> It is to weep...

The "nanny attitude" is pervasive, isn't it? I get lots of snide
comments from co-workers because I routinely walk a short distance
from my car to the door of the office without a coat on (unless the
snow is blowing around). Every time I hear such as "where's your
coat?" or "you'll freeze to death" I wonder how humanity survived
thousands of years without any of what we consider "modern
necessities".

This reminded me of a PBS series from some years back called 1900
House

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/1900house/

in which a Brit family spent 3 months in a time warp. As I recall it
was hilarious to watch.

GrtArtiste

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

Jay:

Let me know if you get stuck and need a hangar overnight.

JN

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

Jay:

Let me know if you get stuck and need a hangar overnight.

JN

[Peter R.]

On 1/28/2007 8:51:30 AM, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
> "extreme wind chills". My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
> Channel) is now blinking red, warning me (and millions of others) to
> dress warmly, and to not go outside. Heavens, what will we all do?

The Weather Channel Desktop Weather utility can be customized to show only
severe weather alerts, such as severe thunderstorm and tornado warnings, thus
removing these trivial statements if you so prefer.

--
Peter

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-01-28, GrtArtiste > wrote:
> coat?" or "you'll freeze to death" I wonder how humanity survived
> thousands of years without any of what we consider "modern
> necessities".

Generally, it didn't - well, not long after reproduction age at least.

Some of these 'nanny' things like warm coats, better diet, knowledge
about avoiding certain disease, hygiene etc. mean we now live on average
close to 80 years instead of 35 years.

While some of it is patently ridiculous (such as the attempts at
absolute sterility in a lot of things, which I think will probably have
a deleterious effect through reduced immune systems)
quite a lot of these modern conveniences has greatly increased our
quality of life and life span.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-01-28, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself?
> We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
> Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
> issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...

I doubt you are paying hundreds of meterologists to do anything of the
sort. It's likely these warnings are automatically generated by a
computer when a certain threshold is reached. I know you don't like
government employees, but try visiting one of the forecasting sites -
you might be surprised about what they do and don't do.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Mxsmanic]

GrtArtiste writes:

> The "nanny attitude" is pervasive, isn't it? I get lots of snide
> comments from co-workers because I routinely walk a short distance
> from my car to the door of the office without a coat on (unless the
> snow is blowing around). Every time I hear such as "where's your
> coat?" or "you'll freeze to death" I wonder how humanity survived
> thousands of years without any of what we consider "modern
> necessities".

I've noticed that many people dress for the season, not for the
weather. If it's winter, they wear lots of warm clothing; if it's
summer, they wear cool clothing. The only problem is that they never
actually look at the thermometer, so they are often improperly
dressed.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Blueskies]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message . ..
:
:
: The possibilities are endless. I think I'll start a sign business.
:
: KB
:
:

Hurry!
http://www.buildasign.com/Customize.aspx?T=714A414161474D726938493D

[Jim Burns]

Caution!
Don't read signs while driving.
Jim

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
>> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
>> statistically the coldest week of the year.
>>
> <<<snip>>>
>>
>> Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself?
>> We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
>> Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
>> issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...
>>
>> It is to weep...
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>
> The nanny state lives. Roadside signs are (at least to me), the most
> common expression. E.G.: "Bridge May Ice in Winter", "Slippery when Wet".
> Who knew???
>
> Imagine the possibilities for signage. At the beach: "Don't look
> Directly into the Sun.", "Sun Exposure causes Skin Cancer", "Danger:
> Water"...
>
> The possibilities are endless. I think I'll start a sign business.
>
> KB
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Let me know if you get stuck and need a hangar overnight.

Thanks for the offer!

However, I was delayed by our annual R/C swap meet at the airport
today, and then out-voted by my long-suffering family, who decided
that the high winds and cold temperatures just didn't sound like fun
in Atlas when it was already too late to fly to Wisconsin.

I allowed myself to be convinced... We "flew" the Toyota to the mall
instead...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I know you don't like
> government employees, but try visiting one of the forecasting sites -
> you might be surprised about what they do and don't do.

Where did you ever get that idea? I absolutely adore all government
employees who do their jobs efficiently, and accomplish their tasks at
a price that matches the market value of their work.

I've even met her, once. Her name is "Ruby", and she's a black woman
who works for the IRS. Without her, the entire US Government would
grind to a halt.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-01-29, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> I know you don't like
>> government employees, but try visiting one of the forecasting sites -
>> you might be surprised about what they do and don't do.
>
> Where did you ever get that idea? I absolutely adore all government
> employees who do their jobs efficiently, and accomplish their tasks at
> a price that matches the market value of their work.

So for what reason do you think that the meteorologists aren't doing
their jobs efficiently?

Note that the warning to dress warmly that you got - you said it was from
a Weather Channel widget. Now I could be wrong, but isn't the Weather
Channel a private company? Perhaps you should bemoan the nanny
corporation before the nanny state...

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Jay Honeck]

> Note that the warning to dress warmly that you got - you said it was from
> a Weather Channel widget. Now I could be wrong, but isn't the Weather
> Channel a private company? Perhaps you should bemoan the nanny
> corporation before the nanny state...

Okay, I'll bemoan that, too. I've seen enough corporate welfare lately
that it's easy to despise them, too.

Of course, it's the corporate whores who have government stooges in
their hip pockets that make the corporate welfare possible, so, dang,
I guess I'll have to hate 'em all...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mxsmanic]

Dylan Smith writes:

> Note that the warning to dress warmly that you got - you said it was from
> a Weather Channel widget. Now I could be wrong, but isn't the Weather
> Channel a private company?

It is, but it gets its data from the government, like all weather
networks.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Chris W]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> I've noticed that many people dress for the season, not for the
> weather. If it's winter, they wear lots of warm clothing; if it's
> summer, they wear cool clothing. The only problem is that they never
> actually look at the thermometer, so they are often improperly
> dressed.

Sounds like a woman problem to me :) ...... (ducking and running)



--
Chris W
KE5GIX

"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

[Gerry Caron]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
> The NWS issued a wind chill warning for Melbourne FL last week. It
> was so "cold" I could actually see my breath! :-)
>
It was horrible! I had to wear a long sleeve shirt and put the top up on my
roadster for my morning commute. ;-)

NWS has issued another severe weather alert for MLB and vicinity for tonight
and tomorrow night. Forecast is for 42 tonight with wind-chill in the mid
30s. Looks like I might need a jacket in the morning.

Gerry

[Mxsmanic]

Chris W writes:

> Sounds like a woman problem to me ...

The only distinction I see in that respect is that women are much more
likely to dress for looks, and then complain about being too cold or
(very rarely) too hot.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Peter R.]

On 1/28/2007 7:27:59 PM, Dylan Smith wrote:

> Note that the warning to dress warmly that you got - you said it was from
> a Weather Channel widget. Now I could be wrong, but isn't the Weather
> Channel a private company?

It is, but the Weather Channel Desktop Weather alert to which Jay is
referring is coming from the National Weather Service, not the Weather
Channel. TWC is just the messenger.

--
Peter

[Longworth[_1_]]

On Jan 28, 8:51 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
> "extreme wind chills". My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
> Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself? ....
> We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
> Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
> issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...
>
> It is to weep...

Jay,
I'm pretty sure that those warnings are automatically generated
when the collected data exceeding certain thresholds. Don't forget
that we live in a very litigious society. Imagine that if there is a
hiccup in the software so that such a warning is not issue and some
idiots decide to hike up a mountain without dressing warmly or some
street people not going to shelter etc. then die from hypothermina
etc., I'm pretty sure there would be a horde of lawyers lining up to
sue the national weather service and/or the weather station. Mind
you that this is not a statement against all lawyers (my father was a
lawyer and two of my siblings are lawyers), this is just a sad fact-of-
life of our current legal system. Yes, it is to weep not because of
the 'nanny state' but the condition which creates it.
Regarding the National Weather Service, I am quite grateful that we
have a great weather information system and still quite amaze that we
have everything at our fingertips be it logging on the internet or
clicking the on button on the remote TV control to get very
comprehensive weather information. I check the aviationweather.gov
and the weather.com sites pretty much everyday.

Hai Longworth

[Randy Aldous]

On Jan 28, 8:41 pm, "Gerry Caron" > wrote:
> "Bob Noel" > wrote in ...
>
> > The NWS issued a wind chill warning for Melbourne FL last week. It
> > was so "cold" I could actually see my breath! :-)It was horrible! I had to wear a long sleeve shirt and put the top up on my
> roadster for my morning commute. ;-)
>
> NWS has issued another severe weather alert for MLB and vicinity for tonight
> and tomorrow night. Forecast is for 42 tonight with wind-chill in the mid
> 30s. Looks like I might need a jacket in the morning.
>
> Gerry

Like the time a few years ago, that my family and I visited Orlando
(had to do the Disney/ Universal thing,) and the hotel we stayed at on
Disney property had a sign posted at the pool, "pool closed due to
cold weather no life guard on duty" the day we arrived - we had come
from Minnesota where it was winter when we departed (I remember the
DC-10 we were on having to go back for a second de-ice,) due to the
"cold." IIRC, it was about 50-55 F with little wind and clear skies.
We went swimming anyway and of course got branded as being from
Minnesota right away by passers by.

But then, my late uncle, who lived in Rockledge, east of Orlando - on
the coast, would always wear his jacket when he came to visit us up
north, even in August.

We had ~44 F in central MN last Friday, followed by 2 F the next day.
Wish it would make up its mind.

Randy

[Jay Honeck]

> Like the time a few years ago, that my family and I visited Orlando
> (had to do the Disney/ Universal thing,) and the hotel we stayed at on
> Disney property had a sign posted at the pool, "pool closed due to
> cold weather no life guard on duty" the day we arrived - we had come
> from Minnesota where it was winter when we departed (I remember the
> DC-10 we were on having to go back for a second de-ice,) due to the
> "cold." IIRC, it was about 50-55 F with little wind and clear skies.
> We went swimming anyway and of course got branded as being from
> Minnesota right away by passers by.

Ha! Mary and I had a similar experience in Southern California, back
in the '70s. We arrived in Anaheim (from Wisconsin) during the winter
of '78-'79 -- one of the worst in history -- to find that there was
some frost on our windows when we woke up the next morning.

Of course none of the locals had ice scrapers, so they were totally
paralyzed. Mary and I simply whipped out our student ID cards (no
credit cards, yet) and scraped the windows. We were in shirt-sleeves,
enjoying the "warm" weather, while all the natives were huddled in
their fur coats, unable to see out their windshields.

It was hilarious, and great fun.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Ha! Mary and I had a similar experience in Southern California, back
> in the '70s. We arrived in Anaheim (from Wisconsin) during the winter
> of '78-'79 -- one of the worst in history -- to find that there was
> some frost on our windows when we woke up the next morning.
>
> Of course none of the locals had ice scrapers, so they were totally
> paralyzed. Mary and I simply whipped out our student ID cards (no
> credit cards, yet) and scraped the windows. We were in shirt-sleeves,
> enjoying the "warm" weather, while all the natives were huddled in
> their fur coats, unable to see out their windshields.
>
> It was hilarious, and great fun.

I've got a "me too," for that.

When in LA for the 1980 Rose Bowl, it was downright hot, compared to Ohio in
the winter.

I'll be DARNed if I was going to be in L.A. and not go swimming in the
Pacific. It was only the second time I had seen it!

About half of the band felt the same way. Swim until you were blue
(literally) warm up for 30 or 40 minutes, and go back out for more body
surfing!

We did have the beach pretty much to ourselves! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dave Stadt]

"Longworth" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 28, 8:51 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
>> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
>> "extreme wind chills". My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
>> Honestly, will this "Nanny State" we've created ever right itself? ....
>> We're paying hundreds of meteorologists, in the employ of the Federal
>> Government, under the auspices of the National Weather Service, to
>> issue WARNINGS TO DRESS WARMLY...
>>
>> It is to weep...
>
> Jay,
> I'm pretty sure that those warnings are automatically generated
> when the collected data exceeding certain thresholds. Don't forget
> that we live in a very litigious society. Imagine that if there is a
> hiccup in the software so that such a warning is not issue and some
> idiots decide to hike up a mountain without dressing warmly or some
> street people not going to shelter etc. then die from hypothermina
> etc., I'm pretty sure there would be a horde of lawyers lining up to
> sue the national weather service and/or the weather station. Mind
> you that this is not a statement against all lawyers (my father was a
> lawyer and two of my siblings are lawyers), this is just a sad fact-of-
> life of our current legal system. Yes, it is to weep not because of
> the 'nanny state' but the condition which creates it.
> Regarding the National Weather Service, I am quite grateful that we
> have a great weather information system and still quite amaze that we
> have everything at our fingertips be it logging on the internet or
> clicking the on button on the remote TV control to get very
> comprehensive weather information. I check the aviationweather.gov
> and the weather.com sites pretty much everyday.
>
> Hai Longworth

You mean a great weather information system that is wrong more than half the
time.

[Gene Seibel]

On Jan 28, 7:51 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
> statistically the coldest week of the year.

Took a flight up to Peru in northern IL in 20 degree temps yesterday
and survived. Great flying! Made it back home yesterday afternoon, so
didn't have to deal with the presidential TFR at Peoria today. Got to
sit at home and listen to the Air Force warning pilots on 121.5 when
they approached and entered the TFR.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[C J Campbell]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:51:26 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote
(in article . com>):

> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
> statistically the coldest week of the year.
>
> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
> "extreme wind chills".

Ah, it is nothing. The daughter of a friend of ours was a missionary in
Novosibirsk, Russia. Novosibersk is (roughly) in what used to be known as
Outer Mongolia. Heh-heh. She should have paid more attention in my Seminary
class. I warned her she would be sent to Outer Mongolia.

Anyway, she sent back a picture of herself dressed in a fur hat and fur coat.
She looked cold. She said that sometimes your breath freezes and falls to the
ground and makes a tinkling noise. They have a word for that in their
language. HA! A word for the tinkling noise your breath makes when it freezes
and falls to the ground. Bet they don't have that in Iowa! And I bet their
radio doesn't tell people to dress warm, either!

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Jay Beckman]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
e.com...
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:51:26 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote
> (in article . com>):
>
>> We (in the upper Midwest) are in the grips of some cold weather right
>> now. This is not surprising, since the last week of January is
>> statistically the coldest week of the year.
>>
>> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
>> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
>> "extreme wind chills".
>
> Ah, it is nothing. The daughter of a friend of ours was a missionary in
> Novosibirsk, Russia. Novosibersk is (roughly) in what used to be known as
> Outer Mongolia. Heh-heh. She should have paid more attention in my
> Seminary
> class. I warned her she would be sent to Outer Mongolia.
>
> Anyway, she sent back a picture of herself dressed in a fur hat and fur
> coat.
> She looked cold. She said that sometimes your breath freezes and falls to
> the
> ground and makes a tinkling noise. They have a word for that in their
> language. HA! A word for the tinkling noise your breath makes when it
> freezes
> and falls to the ground. Bet they don't have that in Iowa!

Having grown up in the upper midwest (Michigan) I can assure you there is a
word for when it gets that cold. Several words in fact. And, in addition
to the frozen breath, you also get air that turns a lovely shade of blue.

;O)

Jay Beckman
Shivering in 50 degree Wx in
Chandler, AZ

[john smith]

In article >,
"Jay Beckman" > wrote:

> Having grown up in the upper midwest (Michigan) I can assure you there is a
> word for when it gets that cold. Several words in fact. And, in addition
> to the frozen breath, you also get air that turns a lovely shade of blue.
> ;O)
> Jay Beckman
> Shivering in 50 degree Wx in
> Chandler, AZ

What a wimp!
What? You couldn't handle the Michigan weather so you moved south for
your health?
Shucks, even Montblack still lives in Minnesota!

:-))

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
> Shucks, even Montblack still lives in Minnesota!


http://www.kare11.com/weather/
Twin Cities Weather (scroll down)

Forecast calls for 15 below zero on my 'birthday' weekend.

:-(

:-(

:-(

:-)

:-(

....I'm thinking!


Montblack

[Jay Beckman]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote:
>
>> Having grown up in the upper midwest (Michigan) I can assure you there is
>> a
>> word for when it gets that cold. Several words in fact. And, in
>> addition
>> to the frozen breath, you also get air that turns a lovely shade of blue.
>> ;O)
>> Jay Beckman
>> Shivering in 50 degree Wx in
>> Chandler, AZ
>
> What a wimp!
> What? You couldn't handle the Michigan weather so you moved south for
> your health?
> Shucks, even Montblack still lives in Minnesota!
>
> :-))

I moved to the desert sw for no other reason than because I could...

:OP

Jay B

[Jay Beckman]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("john smith" wrote)
>> Shucks, even Montblack still lives in Minnesota!
>
>
> http://www.kare11.com/weather/
> Twin Cities Weather (scroll down)
>
> Forecast calls for 15 below zero on my 'birthday' weekend.
>
> :-(
>
> :-(
>
> :-(
>
> :-)
>
> :-(
>
> ...I'm thinking!
>
>
> Montblack

There is an upside to this cold snap we're currently having:

The IA pilots/students in the valley are logging some actual! Something
that doesn't happen all that often. Or at least it doesn't often happen
without dust and thunderstorms accompanying the rain.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
Calling for 70s and sunny by the weekend.

[Mxsmanic]

Jay Beckman writes:

> I moved to the desert sw for no other reason than because I could...

I moved away from it for the same reason.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Matt Whiting]

john smith wrote:
> In article >,
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote:
>
>
>>Having grown up in the upper midwest (Michigan) I can assure you there is a
>>word for when it gets that cold. Several words in fact. And, in addition
>>to the frozen breath, you also get air that turns a lovely shade of blue.
>>;O)
>>Jay Beckman
>>Shivering in 50 degree Wx in
>>Chandler, AZ
>
>
> What a wimp!
> What? You couldn't handle the Michigan weather so you moved south for
> your health?
> Shucks, even Montblack still lives in Minnesota!
>
> :-))

Yes, but just read a few of his posts to see what the cold has done to
him! :-)

Matt

[Jackal24]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:1169992286.594104.170880
@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:


> Despite this commonly known fact, the National Weather Service has
> felt compelled to issue a urgent "Winter Weather Advisory" for
> "extreme wind chills".

About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills around -
50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".

Tyson

[Jay Honeck]

> About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills around -
> 50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".

Good God, man. Where do you live?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
>> About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills around -
>> 50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".

> Good God, man. Where do you live?


Please let it be Sacramento, California <g>


Montblack

[Jay Beckman]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Jay Honeck" wrote)
>>> About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills
>>> around - 50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".
>
>> Good God, man. Where do you live?
>
>
> Please let it be Sacramento, California <g>
>
>
> Montblack
>

<Reaching for spare keyboard>

Dammit Montblack...!

I'm really glad I don't drink sweet tea.

LOL...

Jay B

[Jackal24]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
oups.com:

>> About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills
>> around - 50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".
>
> Good God, man. Where do you live?

I'm working in Bethel, AK.

[Jim Logajan]

Jackal24 > wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>>> About a month ago here, the high temp was -25F, with wind chills
>>> around - 50F. Now that is an "extreme wind chill".
>>
>> Good God, man. Where do you live?
>
> I'm working in Bethel, AK.

Fascinating - the magnetic deviation from true north at the Bethel airport
appears to be large enough that runways 18 and 36 have a considerable slant
in the Google Earth satellite image, which is normally drawn squared with
true north:

http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bethel,+AK&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=60.780179,-161.840158&spn=0.019106,0.070124&t=k&om=1

So what's the deal with runway 29??

[Jackal24]

Jim Logajan > wrote in
:

>
> Fascinating - the magnetic deviation from true north at the Bethel
> airport appears to be large enough that runways 18 and 36 have a
> considerable slant in the Google Earth satellite image, which is
> normally drawn squared with true north:
>
> http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bethel,+AK&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=60.780179,-161.
> 840158&spn=0.019106,0.070124&t=k&om=1
>
> So what's the deal with runway 29??
>

11/29 is mostly gravel with a short paved stretch. It comes in handy when
the wind is blowing out of the east at 30 kts.

Also, not shown on that image is the fact that they are currently working
on building a parallel runway to 18/36.

Tyson

[Jose]

> My desktop weather (courtesy of the Weather
> Channel) is now blinking red, warning me (and millions of others) to
> dress warmly, and to not go outside.

It's not the nanny state you are seeing. It's far more insidious.

It is extremely difficult to get an answer about how something works
these days. However, it's very easy to find out how to work it. People
want to be told what button to push. They don't want to know what
happens when they push it. I don't know what came first, but I find
very few people who even see a problem.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose]

> What? You couldn't handle the Michigan weather so you moved south for
> your health?

There's a joke that goes something like:
When it's 50 degrees, Floridians put on their coats... Wisconsoners go
swimming. When it's 30, Floridians stay inside, Wisconsoners put on a
t-shirt... when it's 10 below, Wisconsoners put on a sweater...

Different states, different temperatures, but I can't seem to find it.
Anyone know the way it goes?

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mxsmanic]

Jose writes:

> It is extremely difficult to get an answer about how something works
> these days. However, it's very easy to find out how to work it. People
> want to be told what button to push. They don't want to know what
> happens when they push it. I don't know what came first, but I find
> very few people who even see a problem.

In a technologically advanced state, inevitably the percentage of the
population that knows how technologies work will shrink, whereas the
percentage of the population that uses those technologies regularly will
increase. Thus, the more advanced the state, the more people you have who
regularly use technologies they don't understand.

When people lived in caves, it's likely that everyone understood all the
technologies he had to use, or nearly so. Today, almost nobody understands
even a fraction of the technology that he uses each day, and indeed we all
depend on technologies the workings of which we don't fully understand.

The problem, then, arises whenever someone must step outside the very small
envelope of interactions with a technology for which he is competent. We all
know how to push buttons on a telephone to make a telephone call (the standard
envelope), but how many of us know what to do if the buttons don't work as
expected.

Aviation is just one of many high-tech domains in which there are many who
understand the standard envelope while not mastering the extended envelope;
and I'm talking pilots here, not passengers.

I notice this in discussions on this group. Most pilots (like most people in
general) learn by rote, because this allows people to make use of technologies
that they wouldn't be able to easily understand if they had to study the
fundamental theory. This is why, for example, pilots here will insist that
trim is used to relieve control pressures, and reject any other explanation of
trim, even when the other explanations are precisely equivalent to their own.
They learned the control-pressure explanation by rote, and they don't actually
understand the theory behind trim, so they reject any explanation that doesn't
correspond to what they were taught. Only someone who learned the actual
theory will recognize multiple explanations as being mutually equivalent, and
such people are rare. Training programs for complex activities typically
emphasize rote learning, in order to keep those activities accessible to
people with a wide range of intelligence levels. Forcing everyone to learn
theory would exclude a significant chunk of trainees who might have trouble
grasping abstract theory as opposed to a cookbook, rote approach to tasks.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Jose]

> Thus, the more advanced the state, the more people you have who
> regularly use technologies they don't understand.

I'm not talking about not understanding, I'm talking about not =wanting=
to understand, and (on the flip side) refusing to explain.

> This is why, for example, pilots here will insist that
> trim is used to relieve control pressures

Trim =is= used to relieve control pressure (*). That is the "what
button to push" question. It is the "how do I use trim", not "what
happens when I use trim".

You seem to be asking (without successfully communicating the
distinction) "what, in detail, happens when trim is adjusted?", the
answer to which depends on the individual setup. You also got hung up
on a "neutral position", which either doesn't exist, or can be defined
arbitrarily (just like the w/b datum).

And yes, that's an example of being unsuccessful finding out "what
happens when I do this", which really is "what ELSE happens (that nobody
is telling me!) when I do this".

Jose

(*) ... in non-fly-by-wire aircraft anyway.
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mxsmanic]

Jose writes:

> Trim =is= used to relieve control pressure (*).

That is only one of multiple possible uses for trim.

Adjusting trim holds control surfaces in fixed, non-neutral positions.
Relieving control pressure is not the only reason for doing that. The
autopilot doesn't use trim to relieve control pressure.

> You seem to be asking (without successfully communicating the
> distinction) "what, in detail, happens when trim is adjusted?", the
> answer to which depends on the individual setup.

Trim pretty much causes the same thing to happen fundamentally on all
aircraft.

> You also got hung up
> on a "neutral position", which either doesn't exist, or can be defined
> arbitrarily (just like the w/b datum).

A neutral position is easy enough to understand. Neutral trim produces the
same effect as the complete absence of trim tabs.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Jose]

I won't continue beyond the following statements:

> Adjusting trim holds control surfaces in fixed, non-neutral positions.

No, it doesn't. Aerodynamic forces still work on the control surfaces,
and they are still free to move.

> The autopilot doesn't use trim to relieve control pressure.

Yes, it does. It just doesn't sense pressure the same way a pilot does.

>>You seem to be asking (without successfully communicating the
>> distinction) "what, in detail, happens when trim is adjusted?", the
>> answer to which depends on the individual setup.
>
> Trim pretty much causes the same thing to happen fundamentally on all
> aircraft.

That statement is a perfect indication of the difference between "what
button do I push?" and "what happens when I push the button?". It may
"cause the same thing to happen", but it causes it in different ways.

> A neutral position is easy enough to understand. Neutral trim produces the
> same effect as the complete absence of trim tabs.

This is an acceptable but arbitrary definition which would work for
aircraft with trim tabs. This putative neutral position however has no
aviation significance (it doesn't correspond to any useful pilot input
or requirement), and is utterly meaningless for other trim methods, such
as bungee or jackscrew.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Casey Wilson]

--

NOTICE!!!!
Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT qualified to
issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
aircraft.

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Jose writes:
>
>> Trim =is= used to relieve control pressure (*).
>
> That is only one of multiple possible uses for trim.
>
> Adjusting trim holds control surfaces in fixed, non-neutral positions.
> Relieving control pressure is not the only reason for doing that. The
> autopilot doesn't use trim to relieve control pressure.
>
>> You seem to be asking (without successfully communicating the
>> distinction) "what, in detail, happens when trim is adjusted?", the
>> answer to which depends on the individual setup.
>
> Trim pretty much causes the same thing to happen fundamentally on all
> aircraft.
>
>> You also got hung up
>> on a "neutral position", which either doesn't exist, or can be defined
>> arbitrarily (just like the w/b datum).
>
> A neutral position is easy enough to understand. Neutral trim produces
> the
> same effect as the complete absence of trim tabs.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Jose]

> NOTICE!!!!
> Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot

I know this.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.