Which GRP single-seater has the lowest cockpit weight?

[Dan G]

A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
particularly low cockpit min weights.

Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
it?


Dan

[phil collin]

Dan G wrote:
> A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
> can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
> particularly low cockpit min weights.
>
> Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
> it?
>
>
> Dan
>
2 words, Ballast Weights

--

Phil Collin
Partner Manager
T: 0845 862 1 862
E:
W: www.voicehost.co.uk

[Andreas Alin]

I've read in a german forum: Older gliders ´got a minimum load of 65 kg,
because of the building regulations for all glider types in those times.
Newer building regulation say 75 kg.

With older types they mean e.g. ASW 15.

Andreas

Dan G schrieb:
> A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
> can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
> particularly low cockpit min weights.
>
> Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
> it?
>
>
> Dan
>

[[email protected]]

L33: 121 lbs

[HL Falbaum]

I know the LS4 has an optional bracket for ballast --allows pilots down to
about 100#, and the G102 as well.

--
Hartley Falbaum
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> L33: 121 lbs
>
>

[Roy Clark, B6]

On Jan 31, 9:33 am, Phil Collin > wrote:
> Dan G wrote:
> > A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
> > can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
> > particularly low cockpit min weights.
>
> > Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
> > it?
>
> > Dan
>
> 2 words, Ballast Weights
>
> --
>
> Phil Collin
> Partner Manager
> T: 0845 862 1 862
> E:
> W:www.voicehost.co.uk

I agree and would add - be sure you have the correct weight and
balance information.

For pilots of relatively light weight, this extra care can be
lifesaving.

Example:
NTSB Identification: SEA96FA186 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please
contact Records Management Division
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, August 10, 1996 in SHELTON, WA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/30/1998
Aircraft: Let L-13, registration: N90865
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
After receiving a glider certification on 7/24/96, the pilot (plt)
logged about 2.1 hrs in a Let L-13 glider, before flying it solo. The
initial solo was the accident flight (flt) on 8/10/96. On this flight,
the plt planned to be towed to traffic pattern altitude, then release
the glider, enter the traffic pattern, & land. Release occurred about
3 mi southwest of the airport at 1,850 ft. Airport elevation was 269
ft. Witnesses said the L-13 entered a right spin about 5 to 10 sec
after release & continued spinning until ground impact. To keep the
center-of-gravity (CG) from exceeding the aft limit, a placard had
been installed in the cockpit, indicating the minimum front seat solo
weight to be 150 lbs. The L-13's operating manual contained this &
other info based on the L-13's original weight & balance (W/B)
configuration. The plt weighed between 128 & 135 lbs, & a single 25 lb
ballast bag was found in the wreckage. However, after repainting &
modification with a non-standard tailwheel, the glider's revised W/B
data indicated the current minimum front seat solo weight was 181 lbs.
Based on this info (kept in the operator's maintenance shop), the
glider's C.G. was computed to be 1.4 inches behind the aft limit. The
plt's personal copy of the L-13 operating manual did not contain the
revised W/B data. Copies of the glider's operating manual were being
sold to renters without this info.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:
failure of the operator to provide its pilots with information
essential for an accurate determination of the glider's weight and
balance, the resultant operation of the glider with a center-or-
gravity that exceeded the aft limit, and the pilot's inadvertent entry
into a stall/spin. Factors relating to the accident were: an incorrect
placard concerning the glider's minimum front seat solo weight
limitation, and the pilot's lack of experience in the make and model
of aircraft.

[BT]

our LS4 has ballast added to the tail, the min cockpit weight is normally
154# but with the added tail ballast it is 171#, the nose ballast (up to 3
weights forward of the rudder pedals) is equivalent of adding 11# for each
weight to the seat or 33#, so 171-33=138# or.. 121# if the tail ballast was
removed.

BT

"HL Falbaum" > wrote in message
. ..
>I know the LS4 has an optional bracket for ballast --allows pilots down to
>about 100#, and the G102 as well.
>
> --
> Hartley Falbaum
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> L33: 121 lbs
>>
>>
>
>

[Tom Gardner]

On Jan 31, 5:06 pm, "Dan G" > wrote:
> A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
> can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
> particularly low cockpit min weights.
>
> Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
> it?

I guess that person is also small, so are there any examples of
adding
extra weight in the form of a "very heavy cushion" between the pilot
and the seat? Perhaps a very heavy cushion could be fashioned from
lead or rubber sheeting, and placed between the energy absorbing
cushion and the seat pan.

[Maciek]

PW-5 - 121 lbs
A friend of mine, who had similar problem, used to carry a little bag filled
with sand (made by her mother;-), which placed under her...you know where,
added some extra lbs (even 20 ). One thing you should do if you use this
solution is to make sure, that the sand never gets out into the cockpit - it
may cause seizing of some mechanisms and it can end badly. Better if you
raplace sand with some stones (less comfortable, but more safety)

Maciek

[Michael Ash]

Tom Gardner > wrote:
> On Jan 31, 5:06 pm, "Dan G" > wrote:
>> A friend of mine weighs just 110lbs with parachute. With ballast, she
>> can fly some K13s and a couple of wooden single-seaters which have
>> particularly low cockpit min weights.
>>
>> Which GRP single-seaters tend to have low min weights, and how much is
>> it?
>
> I guess that person is also small, so are there any examples of
> adding
> extra weight in the form of a "very heavy cushion" between the pilot
> and the seat? Perhaps a very heavy cushion could be fashioned from
> lead or rubber sheeting, and placed between the energy absorbing
> cushion and the seat pan.

We have some bags of lead shot and at least one lead plate that we use as
you describe for those front-seaters who are too far under the limit for
our available normal ballast to fix. It works well and, I'm told, is
perfectly comfortable if positioned properly.

I heard a frightening story about a kid who needed ballast for his first
solo in some sort of powered plane. They stuck a lead plate under him to
bring his weight up to the minimum. Sometime during the flight the plate
slid up, jamming the stick full forward. He completed several outside
loops before unjamming the stick, regaining control, and landing safely.
Obviously you should make sure this can't happen to you. :)

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Andreas Alin]

The mother of a teenage flight club member made a polstered cushion with
plummet sheets inside. They say it weights 20 kg (about 40lbs). It was
hard for the boy to carry it to the plane, but he managed it. He
additionally needs the Ballast Weights near the pedals.

Andreas

Maciek schrieb:
> PW-5 - 121 lbs
> A friend of mine, who had similar problem, used to carry a little bag filled
> with sand (made by her mother;-), which placed under her...you know where,
> added some extra lbs (even 20 ). One thing you should do if you use this
> solution is to make sure, that the sand never gets out into the cockpit - it
> may cause seizing of some mechanisms and it can end badly. Better if you
> raplace sand with some stones (less comfortable, but more safety)
>
> Maciek
>
>

[[email protected]]

Ok folks, I think I've read in just about every "How to fly
sailplanes" book including those by Piggott and Knauff that you don't
want to add ballast using an "under the deriere´ (never could do
French)" type. If you are going to add ballast make sure it is
attached to the airframe and not held on by your butt! I think this is
in a couple of POH's I've read also.

Bob (who unfortunately does not have a need for ballast)

[Andreas Alin]

OK, then use it with an 5 point harness and it should be safe. Thx for
remembering, I forgot to add this to my satement before.

Andreas

schrieb:
> Ok folks, I think I've read in just about every "How to fly
> sailplanes" book including those by Piggott and Knauff that you don't
> want to add ballast using an "under the deriere´ (never could do
> French)" type. If you are going to add ballast make sure it is
> attached to the airframe and not held on by your butt! I think this is
> in a couple of POH's I've read also.
>
> Bob (who unfortunately does not have a need for ballast)
>

[01-- Zero One]

I don't think that is the point, Andreas... The problem is that you
then have a substantial weight that will be free to mash against you if
you hit turbulence or an accident, pinning you between the belts and a
pretty heavy mass.



Larry





"Andreas Alin" > wrote in
message :

> OK, then use it with an 5 point harness and it should be safe. Thx for
> remembering, I forgot to add this to my satement before.
>
> Andreas
>
> schrieb:
> > Ok folks, I think I've read in just about every "How to fly
> > sailplanes" book including those by Piggott and Knauff that you don't
> > want to add ballast using an "under the deriere´ (never could do
> > French)" type. If you are going to add ballast make sure it is
> > attached to the airframe and not held on by your butt! I think this is
> > in a couple of POH's I've read also.
> >
> > Bob (who unfortunately does not have a need for ballast)
> >

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:07:09 +0100, Andreas Alin
> wrote:

>The mother of a teenage flight club member made a polstered cushion with
>plummet sheets inside. They say it weights 20 kg (about 40lbs). It was
>hard for the boy to carry it to the plane, but he managed it. He
>additionally needs the Ballast Weights near the pedals.

Most of the girls in my club need about the same amount of lead
weight. Usually the boys carry the weight around for them...

Sex sells.



Bye
Andreas

[Jeremy Zawodny]

Andreas Maurer wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:07:09 +0100, Andreas Alin
> > wrote:
>
>> The mother of a teenage flight club member made a polstered cushion with
>> plummet sheets inside. They say it weights 20 kg (about 40lbs). It was
>> hard for the boy to carry it to the plane, but he managed it. He
>> additionally needs the Ballast Weights near the pedals.
>
> Most of the girls in my club need about the same amount of lead
> weight. Usually the boys carry the weight around for them...

Girls?

In a glider club?

How'd you manage *that*? Our ratio is on the order of 60:1. That's the
female to male ratio, not the glide ratio!

Jeremy

[J. Nieuwenhuize]

On 2 feb, 06:36, Jeremy Zawodny > wrote:
> Girls?
>
> In a glider club?
>
> How'd you manage *that*? Our ratio is on the order of 60:1. That's the
> female to male ratio, not the glide ratio!
>
> Jeremy

Though it is usually hard to distinguish them from the guys there áre
girls who fly. Whether it's the gliding or the huge number of male
that attracts them isn't too sure...

[Graeme Cant]

wrote:
> Ok folks, I think I've read in just about every "How to fly
> sailplanes" book including those by Piggott and Knauff that you don't
> want to add ballast using an "under the deriere´ (never could do
> French)" type. If you are going to add ballast make sure it is
> attached to the airframe and not held on by your butt! I think this is
> in a couple of POH's I've read also.

Our club members who need ballast often use a lead cushion tied/clipped
to the seat belt attachment points. By definition, these are strong
enough to take both weights. The difficulty is the integrity of the
attachments at the cushion end.

GC
>
> Bob (who unfortunately does not have a need for ballast)
>

[Jack[_1_]]

J. Nieuwenhuize wrote:

> Though it is usually hard to distinguish them from the guys there áre
> girls who fly.

Sorry to here that. The females at our club are easy to identify.


Jack

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 11:06 am, "Maciek" > wrote:
> PW-5 - 121 lbs
> A friend of mine, who had similar problem, used to carry a little bag filled
> with sand (made by her mother;-), which placed under her...you know where,
> added some extra lbs (even 20 ). One thing you should do if you use this
> solution is to make sure, that the sand never gets out into the cockpit - it
> may cause seizing of some mechanisms and it can end badly. Better if you
> raplace sand with some stones (less comfortable, but more safety)
>
> Maciek



PW-5 as an One Class Design by definition must acomodate the pilots in
widest range of weights. The gross weight of all mashines at the grid
must be the same, adjusted to the heaviest pilot in the competition.
It has two system of balasts. Four removable weights in tail, which
you add when the (pilots + parachute) is over 167 lbs as far as to
231 lbs. We also have eight small compartments under the removable
pilots sit pan, where you can put eight 10 lbs bags of lead shot. With
all begs in place firmly secured and no tail balast you could be as
light as 81 lbs with a parachute. Preatty wide range and very
safe. :-)
Richard

[Jim Vincent]

"Graeme Cant" <gcantinter@tnodedotnet> wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> Ok folks, I think I've read in just about every "How to fly
>> sailplanes" book including those by Piggott and Knauff that you don't
>> want to add ballast using an "under the deriere´ (never could do
>> French)" type. If you are going to add ballast make sure it is
>> attached to the airframe and not held on by your butt! I think this is
>> in a couple of POH's I've read also.
>
> Our club members who need ballast often use a lead cushion tied/clipped to
> the seat belt attachment points. By definition, these are strong enough
> to take both weights. The difficulty is the integrity of the attachments
> at the cushion end.
>
> GC


Do what I do...just have them sit on your lap ;-)

[James D'Andrea]

I thought we soared for the groupies and prize money?!
Apparently, there is a gliderport somewhere that has a better
female:male ratio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD-ZIILtI2I

>
> Girls?
>
> In a glider club?
>
> How'd you manage *that*? Our ratio is on the order of 60:1. That's the
> female to male ratio, not the glide ratio!
>
> Jeremy