Anything new in to combat motion sickness?

[Gary Emerson]

Greetings,

I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.

I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
it's not an instant cure, at least for me.

Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
in the works??

Gary

[[email protected]]

On Feb 2, 6:07 pm, Gary Emerson > wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
> sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
> in the works??
>
> Gary

This looks interesting. Haven't tried it. Probably crap but almost
anything is worth a try.

http://www.motioneaze.com/

MM

[Jim Vincent]

"Gary Emerson" > wrote in message
. net...
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and sometimes
> on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be in
> the works??
>
> Gary

I, too, have suffered early in the season. I have one of the wrist devices,
not sure whether the benefit is based on placebo or not. I have heard that
eating ginger snaps or raw ginger helps somewhat. Here's a detailed link:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsConditions/MotionSicknesscc.html

Then again, puking for the first 3-4 flights helps get rid of the pounds
gained during the course of the winter.

[bumper]

Gary,

On your electronic "tens" type ReliefBand, be sure the tingling goes up the
center of your hand and to the middle two fingers, per the directions.

I've found the ReliefBand works fairly well on me and on my victims (pax),
but only if put on and prepped *before* the flight! Trying to get it on and
adjusted in flight, and for someone who is already experiencing symptoms,
ain't gonna work (g).

bumper
"Gary Emerson" > wrote in message
. net...
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and sometimes
> on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be in
> the works??
>
> Gary

[Andreas Alin]

Jim Vincent wrote:
>> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be in
>> the works??
>>
>> Gary
>
> I, too, have suffered early in the season. I have one of the wrist devices,
> not sure whether the benefit is based on placebo or not. I have heard that
> eating ginger snaps or raw ginger helps somewhat. Here's a detailed link:
> http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsConditions/MotionSicknesscc.html
>
> Then again, puking for the first 3-4 flights helps get rid of the pounds
> gained during the course of the winter.

I heard the ginger thing, too. After getting motion sick the during the
first longer flights as passenger I tried this:

- Have some snacks with you to eat. Don't fly with empty or full
stomatch. Make also a good breakfast.
- Don't look the most times during thermaling in the center of the circle

I don't tried meds, because they usually setting down capacity of reaction.

Andreas

[Nyal Williams]

Sailors swear by this stuff and claim that it will
provide relief even after the sickness has started.
It is not a medication to be 'taken.' It consists
of liquid herbal extracts that are rubbed on the skin
just behind the ear.

I bought some for wife and daughter, but haven't had
opportunity to use it with them. I don't have the
problem and I can't speak first hand about its usefulness.
It is available on line and at marinas.

At 05:18 03 February 2007, wrote:
>On Feb 2, 6:07 pm, Gary Emerson wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the
>>season and
>> sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>>
>> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's
>>of some benefit, but
>> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>>
>> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions
>>that might be
>> in the works??
>>
>> Gary
>
>This looks interesting. Haven't tried it. Probably
>crap but almost
>anything is worth a try.
>
>http://www.motioneaze.com/
>
>MM
>
>

[Shawn]

Gary Emerson wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
> sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
> in the works??

I've had good luck with ginger Altoids candies. Avoid Pepperidge Farm's
banana loaf. You can guess how I know :-P


Shawn

[John Scott]

Our club has had good luck with Ginger. We've used REAL ginger ale, candied
ginger, and ginger capsules. The ginger needs to be consumed a little while
prior to the flight. Eating it while climbing into the glider seems to
reduce effectiveness.

The MythBusters did a segment on motion sickness and found Ginger to be the
only really effective non-prescription, non-drowsy inducing remedy.

John

[Brett]

Greetings,

I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.

I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
it's not an instant cure, at least for me.

Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
in the works??

Gary


Gary,

I am a motion-sickness sufferer & also a pharmacist. I've tried all to commercial "over the counter" remedies, & while most (drug type, not herbal) work well enough, the side effects which can include drowsiness, dry mouth & urinary retention preclude safe flying.
However, these side-effects vary widely in degree among individuals; some people notice none at all.
I suggest you try several types recommended by your pharmacist (not all at once!) while firmly on the ground & see how they affect you.
One which I have found personal success with is "Scopoderm TTS" which is a small patch (about the size of a quarter dollar) which you stick on your body the night before you fly & which will give relief from motion sickness for 72 hours. I have never felt sick with these & find them great for competitions etc where you tend to dolphin soar more than normal. I suffer no drowsiness at all with these. BUT you may be different so try before you fly.
I maintain a pilot suffering for motion sickness is a more dangerous pilot than one with a slightly dry mouth from his medication.
Good luck
Brett

[[email protected]]

The ONLY thing I've found that is really helpful is limiting head
movements, especially pitching movements. If I'm in the back of a
twin on a long flight with a student and start to get motion sick I
will fix my head on the headrest and only use my eyeballs to look
around. Of course I'm watching to be sure the student is keeping a
good look out. By reducing the equilibrial stimulation this way one
can greatly extend the time before motion sickness gets going in
ernest. Student gets more stick time, non flying pilot gets less SICK
time. Also a lifesaver with passengers who admit to feeling queasy.
I think this is where the "fix your eyes on the horizon" advice came
from. That doesn't do squat but avoiding looking up and down
(pitching) makes a big difference. This is why people often get sick
faster if they are taking photos. They are looking all over the place
and often through a viewfinder that exaggerates the apparent visual
motion. I've done extensive research on motion sickness with various
test subjects on our centrifuge in the back yard (playground merry-go-
round). I promise you can endure longer if you sit and keep your head
still then if you move around.

MM

[Dan G]

On Feb 3, 8:46 pm, wrote:
> I promise you can endure longer if you sit and keep your head
> still then if you move around.
>
> MM

This makes sense. I often turn a flight into a ride on the vomit comet
and, now that I think about it, it often sets in when I join a thermal
with other gliders, and start looking above and below horizontal to
track them. This usually leads to a forced rapid return to straight
and level flight.


Dan

[jcarlyle]

I'm fortunate in that I don't suffer from motion sickness at all. But
ginger, in any form, makes me throw up within a few minutes!
Interesting that something that can relieve motion sickness for some
people would cause something very like motion sickness for others!

-John

On Feb 3, 11:56 am, "John Scott" > wrote:
> Our club has had good luck with Ginger. We've used REAL ginger ale, candied
> ginger, and ginger capsules. The ginger needs to be consumed a little while
> prior to the flight. Eating it while climbing into the glider seems to
> reduce effectiveness.
>
> The MythBusters did a segment on motion sickness and found Ginger to be the
> only really effective non-prescription, non-drowsy inducing remedy.
>
> John

[Eric Greenwell]

Gary Emerson wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
> sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.

Recently, I've begun to wonder if some pilots are experiencing sickness
caused (or at least increased) by a contaminated water container. My
hypothesis is the container sits around all winter, half full of water,
and some crud grows in it. The pilot starts flying again, drinks water
with crud in it, and gets sick (or sicker than just motion sickness
would make him). After a few flights and several quarts of fresh water
now run through the container, the container is relatively clean again,
and the pilot no longer gets sick.

Plausible? Is there any evidence?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Bill Daniels]

Very plausible. Replacement bladders for these "camelback' things only cost
about $15 - I buy a new one each Spring.

I does concern me that several posters mentioned flying while suffering from
airsickness. BTDT and I know I wasn't a great pilot under it's effect.
Fortunately, age and experience has overcome it. I think of you suffer from
airsickness it is a good idea to fly a 2-seater with another pilot for a
while each spring until you re-adapt to flight.

Bill Daniels


"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:hocxh.1279$fT1.1038@trndny02...
> Gary Emerson wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and sometimes
>> on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> Recently, I've begun to wonder if some pilots are experiencing sickness
> caused (or at least increased) by a contaminated water container. My
> hypothesis is the container sits around all winter, half full of water,
> and some crud grows in it. The pilot starts flying again, drinks water
> with crud in it, and gets sick (or sicker than just motion sickness would
> make him). After a few flights and several quarts of fresh water now run
> through the container, the container is relatively clean again, and the
> pilot no longer gets sick.
>
> Plausible? Is there any evidence?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
> * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Forest Baskett]

My wife suffers occasionally and has found great relief
with the electronic wrist device but only if she turns
it up to a level that is slightly uncomfortable. I
suffer rarely but on those occasions have had the same
experience. If you can't tell that it's firing, it
won't help. If you start to feel queasy, turn up the
intensity. That always works for both of us. Whether
the mild electric shocks are bad for you in other ways,
I don't know.

Forest

At 02:12 03 February 2007, Gary Emerson wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the
>season and
>sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
>I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of
>some benefit, but
>it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
>Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions
>that might be
>in the works??
>
>Gary
>

[Forest Baskett]

I found that the inside of a Camelbak gets slimy very
quickly if left with water in it. I now store mine
on a hanger with the mouth down and with a cardboard
tube from an empty paper towel roll stuck inside to
hold it open. It dries quickly and is never slimy.

Forest

At 04:06 04 February 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
>
>Very plausible. Replacement bladders for these 'camelback'
>things only cost
>about $15 - I buy a new one each Spring.
>
>I does concern me that several posters mentioned flying
>while suffering from
>airsickness. BTDT and I know I wasn't a great pilot
>under it's effect.
>Fortunately, age and experience has overcome it. I
>think of you suffer from
>airsickness it is a good idea to fly a 2-seater with
>another pilot for a
>while each spring until you re-adapt to flight.
>
>Bill Daniels
>
>
>'Eric Greenwell' wrote in message
>news:hocxh.1279$fT1.1038@trndny02...
>> Gary Emerson wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the
>>>season and sometimes
>>> on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>>
>> Recently, I've begun to wonder if some pilots are
>>experiencing sickness
>> caused (or at least increased) by a contaminated water
>>container. My
>> hypothesis is the container sits around all winter,
>>half full of water,
>> and some crud grows in it. The pilot starts flying
>>again, drinks water
>> with crud in it, and gets sick (or sicker than just
>>motion sickness would
>> make him). After a few flights and several quarts
>>of fresh water now run
>> through the container, the container is relatively
>>clean again, and the
>> pilot no longer gets sick.
>>
>> Plausible? Is there any evidence?
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
>> * Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>> * 'Transponders in Sailplanes' http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
>> * 'A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation'
>>at www.motorglider.org
>
>
>

[Graeme Cant]

Eric Greenwell wrote:

> Recently, I've begun to wonder if some pilots are experiencing sickness
> caused (or at least increased) by a contaminated water container....snip
>
> Plausible? Is there any evidence?

Yes, Eric, I think you're quite right. I've seen some Camelbak tubes
which are almost completely opaque with some form of living crud! A
friend who was sick at a comp suspected a dirty water bladder - and the
problem stopped when he changed to a clean, new one.

Since they can never be drained completely, I've taken to emptying my
bladders and tubes and putting them in the freezer when they're not in
use. So far, no crud after several years - and no sickness.

GC
>

[bumper]

"Forest Baskett" > wrote in message
...
>I found that the inside of a Camelbak gets slimy very
> quickly if left with water in it. I now store mine
> on a hanger with the mouth down and with a cardboard
> tube from an empty paper towel roll stuck inside to
> hold it open. It dries quickly and is never slimy.
>
> Forest


I changed the subject line.

I've found that not all water is created equal when it comes to "sliming".
When I lived in the North Bay area of California, we had water that was
mostly from Lake Berryessa and was "pre-treated". It was further treated
before being piped to the city folks, but we lived in the country so it was
sort of marginal, sometimes chlorine odor, sometimes not. Brown algae grew
in our pipes. I used a reverse osmosis filter, but still water left in a
Camelback would slime within a few days.

Where we live now, in the Sierra foothills just SW of Minden, Nevada, we
have well water that we could bottle and sell to Californians (g). This
water seems to stay pure and drinkable for months at a time. Never any slime
unless the container wasn't cleaned properly to begin with.

bumper

[Matt Herron Jr.]

I didn't see it mentioned yet, but Peptid AC (yes, the over the
counter antacid) is a life saver for me. I take one about 1-2 hrs
before my flight, and try to avoid eating anything too greasy for
lunch. It completely cured my air sickness with no observable side
effects. Now, the question is why? I think part of my motion
sickness was due to my stress level in the air. This tended to get my
stomach churning, and perhaps that is what produced the undesired
reverse peristalsis. On the other hand, perhaps it's something
completely different.

I don't really care, as long as it works, and it hasn't failed me
yet. I was skeptical at first when someone suggested it, but won't
fly without it now. Anyone else tried this?

Matt Jr.

[Alex[_1_]]

On Feb 3, 11:57 am, Brett >
wrote:
> Gary Emerson Wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
>
> > I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
> > sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> > I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
>
> > it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> > Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
>
> > in the works??
>
> > Gary
>
> Gary,
>
> I am a motion-sickness sufferer & also a pharmacist. I've tried all to
> commercial "over the counter" remedies, & while most (drug type, not
> herbal) work well enough, the side effects which can include
> drowsiness, dry mouth & urinary retention preclude safe flying.
> However, these side-effects vary widely in degree among individuals;
> some people notice none at all.
> I suggest you try several types recommended by your pharmacist (not all
> at once!) while firmly on the ground & see how they affect you.
> One which I have found personal success with is "Scopoderm TTS" which
> is a small patch (about the size of a quarter dollar) which you stick
> on your body the night before you fly & which will give relief from
> motion sickness for 72 hours. I have never felt sick with these & find
> them great for competitions etc where you tend to dolphin soar more
> than normal. I suffer no drowsiness at all with these. BUT you may be
> different so try before you fly.
> I maintain a pilot suffering for motion sickness is a more dangerous
> pilot than one with a slightly dry mouth from his medication.
> Good luck
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett

I'm a physician, glider pilot, and also have had motion sickness at
times. I second what
Brett says. The ScopeDerm Patches contain scoplomine, a tropane
alkaloid
drug that comes from the "deadly nightshade" group of plants.
Scopolomine
is a very powerful drug with strong "anticholinergic" effects. It is
actually related
to LSD, and in larger doses has the same type of effects in causing
hallucinations and
psychotic behavior. Of course, the doses used in the patches have
been tested to be small
enough to minimize the possibility of hallucinations, psychotic
behavior, amnesia and
somnolence. However, it can induce the dry mouth mentioned in the
small dose
that is used in the patch.

If you are a male, and have "BPH" - benign prostatic hypertropy, which
is common
in the elderly, ahh.. sorry.. older middle age ;-)
bracket of pilots that can afford the latest competition sailplanes
and have the
time on their hands to indulge in sailplane flying, you could be
much more prone to the possibility of urinary retention than are women
or younger
males. The small doses used in the patches can also affect the
ability of the eye to focus and tend
to dilate the pupils. Some people who may be walking around with an
condition called "narrow angle glaucoma" and do not yet know they
have it, may have
a sudden attack of increased pressure in the eyes accompanied by
severe pain and
difficulty seeing from this drug when the pupil dilates. This is
not a very common condition,
but people who have it do not often know about it until they have
taken a medication that
dilates their pupils, such as when they go in for an eye exam. This
makes it very important
as Brett says to try them on the ground before flying with them. I'm
not an aviation medical examiner and I'm not really sure what the
FAA's position is on using these patches while flying. I know there
is a question on the form when you go for an FAA physical that asks if
you have "Motion Sickness Requiring Drugs" I'm not sure what happens
if you check "Yes". Anybody have any experience with that?

I think NASA has tested scopolomine for astronauts 50% of whom get
space sickness. However, I read that the most common drug they have
used is "promethazine" also known as phenergan. It has less
problem with the anticholingergic type of side effects mentioned above
but makes one more
sleepy.

I do believe in the "conflict" theory that motion sickness when there
is a conflict between what the eyes are seeing and what the vestibular
system is telling your brain. When you can anticipate and
predict the motion, it is much easier for your system to adapt and
reduce the conflict. That's why
you don't get sick as easily when you are flying vs. being a passenger
when you cannot control the
maneuvers of the aircraft. However, even when you are doing the
flying, the motions from turbulent air
are not very predictable.

There are definitely certain head motions, which when associated with
certain maneuvers of the aircraft, are known to cause very strong
vesibular stimulation that could accentuate the tendency to motion
sickness or even cause the pilot to put in control inputs that are not
proper and dangerous because of the very strong tendency of the brain
to react to a vestibular signals that is telling your brain your are
tumbling, cartwheeling or spinning - to the point of
overriding what the eyes are telling it. In Aviation Medicine, they
have have categorized some of these and given them names. This link
is an excellent overview of the subject:

http://weboflife.ksc.nasa.gov/learningResources/humanVestibularSystem.htm

Dan Johnson, a physician, glider pilot and FAA medical examiner who
sometimes frequents this group, has done some excellent work
and given talks at the SSA convention on his opinion that a number of
otherwise difficult to explain
accidents, particularly stall/spin accidents in the landing pattern
may be the result of some of these type
of vestibular illusions inducing the pilot to put in the wrong control
inputs that actually cause
the stall/spin. He has an excellent article here:

http://amygdala.danlj.org/~danlj/AviationMedicine/SDO/index.html

The eyes can even be sort of disabled by the strong vestibular signal
and start uncontrollably beating from side to side, a phenomenon
called "nystagnus".

Adrenaline, and/or having your mind occupied with urgent tasks that
absorb all your thinking energy, such as flying xcross country with
imminent outlandings also seems to counter the
tendency to get sick. A boring flight close to the airport where you
are not using 100% of your brain
capacity for the flying will allow the visual/vestibular conflict to
get the upper hand and start
the motion sickness process.

One interesting theory on the cause of motion sickness is on the
Wikipedia and I am quoting it here, not sure if you can prove it, but
it's an interesting idea:

"The most common theory for the cause of motion sickness is that it
evolved as a defence mechanism against neurotoxins. The area postrema
in the brain is responsible for inducing vomiting when poisons are
detected, and for resolving conflicts between vision and balance. When
feeling motion but not seeing it (for example, in a ship with no
windows), the inner ear transmits to the brain that it senses motion,
but the eyes tell the brain that everything is still. The area
postrema will always believe the inner ear signal over the eyes, as
the eyes are more susceptible to trickery (see optical illusion). As a
result, the brain will come to the conclusion that one is
hallucinating and further conclude that the hallucination is due to
poison ingestion. The brain responds by inducing vomiting, to clear
the supposed toxin."

[Martin Eiler]

As a kid, say thru the age of about 13, I was quite
susceptible to motion sickness. It was guaranteed
that if you put me in the back seat of an airplane
I would get airsick. If I was in the front seat or
in
the back seat with controls and flying I would be fine.
By about 14 I was no longer prone to airsickness
when just riding in the back seat of an aircraft.
But if I attempted to read anything in an aircraft
or a car I would get queasy in short order. It is
not
uncommon for new pilots to get queasy when
navigation requires detailed map reading.
About the age of 35 my eyesight started to
diminish and I began t need reading glasses. A
side benefit of the slightly reduced near vision was
that I found that I could now read while riding in
a
vehicle, without getting motion sickness.


>At 09:00 04 February 2007, Alex wrote:
>One interesting theory on the cause of motion sickness
>is on the
>Wikipedia and I am quoting it here, not sure if you
>can prove it, but
>it's an interesting idea:
>
>'The most common theory for the cause of motion sickness
>is that it
>evolved as a defence mechanism against neurotoxins.
> The area postrema
>in the brain is responsible for inducing vomiting when
>poisons are
>detected, and for resolving conflicts between vision
>and balance. When
>feeling motion but not seeing it (for example, in a
>ship with no
>windows), the inner ear transmits to the brain that
>it senses motion,
>but the eyes tell the brain that everything is still.
>The area
>postrema will always believe the inner ear signal over
>the eyes, as
>the eyes are more susceptible to trickery (see optical
>illusion). As a
>result, the brain will come to the conclusion that
>one is
>hallucinating and further conclude that the hallucination
>is due to
>poison ingestion. The brain responds by inducing vomiting,
>to clear
>the supposed toxin.'
>
>
>
>

[Tony Verhulst]

Forest Baskett wrote:
> I found that the inside of a Camelbak gets slimy very
> quickly if left with water in it. I now store mine
> on a hanger with the mouth down and with a cardboard
> tube from an empty paper towel roll stuck inside to
> hold it open. It dries quickly and is never slimy.

I've been doing this for several years and agree that it works well. I
also bought one of those tiny brushes on a long. flexible, shaft (see
http://tinyurl.com/33qcco) and clean out the delivery tube several times
per year (OK, once per year :-) ).

Tony V.

[Jeremy Zawodny]

Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I didn't see it mentioned yet, but Peptid AC (yes, the over the
> counter antacid) is a life saver for me. I take one about 1-2 hrs
> before my flight, and try to avoid eating anything too greasy for
> lunch. It completely cured my air sickness with no observable side
> effects. Now, the question is why? I think part of my motion
> sickness was due to my stress level in the air. This tended to get my
> stomach churning, and perhaps that is what produced the undesired
> reverse peristalsis. On the other hand, perhaps it's something
> completely different.
>
> I don't really care, as long as it works, and it hasn't failed me
> yet. I was skeptical at first when someone suggested it, but won't
> fly without it now. Anyone else tried this?

Yeah, that's helped me as well. In fact, I bet we both got the
suggestion from the same person. :-)

But the thing that's helped me the most is simply flying as much as
possible. The better my body gets at anticipating the sensations
involved with flying, lift, and various stick movements, the better I am.

Unfortunately, that means I end up being a bit of a stick hog on dual
flights early in the season.

Jeremy

[bobcaldwell]

On Feb 4, 12:02 am, "bumper" > wrote:
> "Forest Baskett" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I found that the inside of a Camelbak gets slimy very
> > quickly if left with water in it. I now store mine
> > on a hanger with the mouth down and with a cardboard
> > tube from an empty paper towel roll stuck inside to
> > hold it open. It dries quickly and is never slimy.
>
> > Forest
>
> I changed the subject line.
>
> I've found that not all water is created equal when it comes to "sliming".
> When I lived in the North Bay area of California, we had water that was
> mostly from Lake Berryessa and was "pre-treated". It was further treated
> before being piped to the city folks, but we lived in the country so it was
> sort of marginal, sometimes chlorine odor, sometimes not. Brown algae grew
> in our pipes. I used a reverse osmosis filter, but still water left in a
> Camelback would slime within a few days.
>
> Where we live now, in the Sierra foothills just SW of Minden, Nevada, we
> have well water that we could bottle and sell to Californians (g). This
> water seems to stay pure and drinkable for months at a time. Never any slime
> unless the container wasn't cleaned properly to begin with.
>
> bumper

Camelback bladders can also be dealt with by simply rinsing, refilling
partially, inflating the bag with air thru the hose and freezing while
flat so the outlet and filler port don't freeze over. Cleaning about
monthly is all that is reqd. The water stays very fresh and cold.
The amount you partially fill it should be related to how hot it will
be and how long until you need the water. Then fill to capacity and
go. Another secret is to turn the bladder upside down and suck all
the air out it. That way you don't get the annoying gurgle, there is
always water available at first suck and it will more fully empty.
Adjust the frozen portion according to experience. I use a third full
for average days and half full for hot ones.

BC

[Bullwinkle]

On 2/4/07 12:02 AM, in article
, "bumper"
> wrote:

>
> "Forest Baskett" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I found that the inside of a Camelbak gets slimy very
>> quickly if left with water in it. I now store mine
>> on a hanger with the mouth down and with a cardboard
>> tube from an empty paper towel roll stuck inside to
>> hold it open. It dries quickly and is never slimy.
>>
>> Forest
>
>
> I changed the subject line.
>
> I've found that not all water is created equal when it comes to "sliming".
> When I lived in the North Bay area of California, we had water that was
> mostly from Lake Berryessa and was "pre-treated". It was further treated
> before being piped to the city folks, but we lived in the country so it was
> sort of marginal, sometimes chlorine odor, sometimes not. Brown algae grew
> in our pipes. I used a reverse osmosis filter, but still water left in a
> Camelback would slime within a few days.
>
> Where we live now, in the Sierra foothills just SW of Minden, Nevada, we
> have well water that we could bottle and sell to Californians (g). This
> water seems to stay pure and drinkable for months at a time. Never any slime
> unless the container wasn't cleaned properly to begin with.
>
> bumper
>
>
RE: care of camelback bladders:

I use vinegar.

When I get a new bladder, I put a weak vinegar solution in it and let it sit
for a few hours: takes away that initial "plastic" taste. Rinse a few times
to get rid of the vinegar flavor and you're good to go.

Always drain, rinse, and dry (paper towel tube, or the official Camelback
drying doo-dad) after use. This reduces dramatically the chance of growth by
any of our teeny-weeny friends.

I repeat the vinegar thing at the beginning of the season, unless some of
the plastic parts appear about to get brittle and fail. Then I get a new
bladder and repeat.

One of the bladders I'm using now is 3 years old. I carry two: one for
hydration, one for survival.

Good flying,
Bullwinkle

[Shawn]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> Very plausible. Replacement bladders for these "camelback' things only cost
> about $15 - I buy a new one each Spring.

Where do you buy them Bill? I just paid $30 at the Boulder REI for a
new 100 oz bladder.

I use my camel backs (I think we have five of them) for cycling, skiing,
hiking, road trips as well as flying. The drying rack they sell is well
worth the bucks to keep them mold free. Also, after emptying any left
over water, I grab the hose near the bladder and spin vigorously to
force the last of the water to the end (that sounds bad doesn't it?).
Squeeze the bite valve to drain the last of it. No icky green tubing
for a few years now.



Shawn

[Bill Daniels]

Try WallMart or Target.

Bill

"Shawn" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> Very plausible. Replacement bladders for these "camelback' things only
>> cost about $15 - I buy a new one each Spring.
>
> Where do you buy them Bill? I just paid $30 at the Boulder REI for a new
> 100 oz bladder.
>
> I use my camel backs (I think we have five of them) for cycling, skiing,
> hiking, road trips as well as flying. The drying rack they sell is well
> worth the bucks to keep them mold free. Also, after emptying any left
> over water, I grab the hose near the bladder and spin vigorously to force
> the last of the water to the end (that sounds bad doesn't it?). Squeeze
> the bite valve to drain the last of it. No icky green tubing for a few
> years now.
>
>
>
> Shawn

[Gary Emerson]

Gary Emerson wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I typically suffer from motion sickness early in the season and
> sometimes on longer flights if the thermals are rough.
>
> I have one of the electronic wrist devices. It's of some benefit, but
> it's not an instant cure, at least for me.
>
> Just curious if there are any new meds or other solutions that might be
> in the works??
>
> Gary

Thanks for all the great responses. Looks like there are a couple new
things for me to try.

On the cammelbak subject, I rinse mine thoroughly and hang it up to dry
after each flight and periodically put some bleach in it to kill of
anything that might be hanging around. Following the bleach I rinse it
4-5 times and then hang it up to dry out.

Gary

[bagmaker]

Try ebay for imitation bladders, store always in the freezer, I dont think I would bother drying the bladder before freezing, the bugs will still be there.

Anybody know of a decent, economical, NO LEAK hi flow valve for the damn things?? This part drives me berserk, they either leak or dont give you more than a sip at a time.

Back to topic, try being troubled by another condition.
I always feel crook if flying locally, and will meter myself a half pill or two as the hours go.
Cross country I seldom feel any ill health, I expect due to the higher mind load of navigating, calculating, seeing new ground etc.
The more I think about throwing up, the more chance I have of doing it.
Dont think about it!

bagger

[Alan Meyer]

Like others, I often get airsick on early season flights around the
airport. I don't get sick later in the season and have never been
sick on a cross country flight.

Obviously, there is a powerful psychological component to
airsickness. Why else would so many of us successfully
acclimate to it, and why else would we not get sick on
cross country flights, where we know we don't have the
option of landing?

I once read, can't remember where, that the Royal
Air Force did a study of counseling as a way to combat it,
and apparently it worked!

Mostly I now just fly and don't worry about it and don't get
sick, but when I experimented with drugs, I had good success
with meclizine, a cheap, over the counter remedy. It tended
to make me sleepy so I tried taking it the night before and
getting a good night's sleep. The drug is supposed to work
for 24 hours, so this seemed to work for me.

Alan

[Andreas Alin]

Alan Meyer wrote: > Like others, I often get airsick on early season
flights around the
> airport. I don't get sick later in the season and have never been
> sick on a cross country flight.
>
> Obviously, there is a powerful psychological component to
> airsickness. Why else would so many of us successfully
> acclimate to it, and why else would we not get sick on
> cross country flights, where we know we don't have the
> option of landing?

I think that, too!

One times I flew as passenger and I was getting a little dizzy in my
stomach. So we decided to land. In the same second as our gear touched
ground the dizzy feeling changed to real sickness. After leaving the
glider immediately I had to sit down and ten seconds later I had to puke.

Thats why I think its psychological in many cases. I never had a real
sickness feeling during flight and I'm not anxious for it.

Andreas

[Alex[_1_]]

>
> I'm a physician, glider pilot, and also have had motion sickness at
> times. I second what
> Brett says. The ScopeDerm Patches contain scoplomine, a tropane
> alkaloid
> drug that comes from the "deadly nightshade" group of plants.
> Scopolomine
> is a very powerful drug with strong "anticholinergic" effects. It is
> actually related
> to LSD, and in larger doses has the same type of effects in causing
> hallucinations and
> psychotic behavior. Of course, the doses used in the patches have
> been tested to be small
> enough to minimize the possibility of hallucinations, psychotic
> behavior, amnesia and

Aplogies to the group:

It was pointed out to me by another physician/pilot that scoplomine
and
LSD are not chemically related and actually are thought to operate on
different neurotransmitters in the brain. They are only similar in
their
effects in causing hallucinations. He stated that the hallucinations
from
LSD are different than those from scopolomine and that is also
correct,
I'm sure.

My partner did have one elderly patient accidently forget that she
had
already placed a patch behind her ear that day, and put another one
on at the same time. Because of the excessive dose, she did go
on a "trip" that lasted about 4 days even though the patches were
removed,
and had to be hospitalized, although eventually she recovered with no
apparent long term effects.. I don't have experience with any
patients
on LSD, so I guess to me it seemed like a similar example to use
regarding
the hallucinogenic effects.

But I messed up if it left the impression that scopolomine and LSD
are
close pharmacologic relatives. I was just thinking to myself, "My God,
there might be somebody out there with some LSD laying around that
might get the idea that if scopolomine and LSD were related, maybe
I'll just try a very small dose of this LSD for my motion
sickness." ;-)
I couldn't live with myself if that happened, so if anybody got that
impression - DONT TAKE THAT LSD AND TRY TO FLY!!!! ;-)

But if you've ever seen someone who's tried "Jimson Weed", that IS
closely related pharmacologically. So that might have been a better
example to use than LSD. BUT DON'T TRY JIMSON WEED FOR
MOTION SICKNESS EITHER!!!! ;-)

[Brett]

[To clean the tube of my camelback I disconnect it & run a "pull-through"(for cleaning rifle barrels in the field) through it. Amazing what comes out.

[Martin Gregorie]

bumper wrote:
> I've found that not all water is created equal when it comes to "sliming".
> When I lived in the North Bay area of California, we had water that was
> mostly from Lake Berryessa and was "pre-treated". It was further treated
> before being piped to the city folks, but we lived in the country so it was
> sort of marginal, sometimes chlorine odor, sometimes not. Brown algae grew
> in our pipes. I used a reverse osmosis filter, but still water left in a
> Camelback would slime within a few days.
>
> Where we live now, in the Sierra foothills just SW of Minden, Nevada, we
> have well water that we could bottle and sell to Californians (g). This
> water seems to stay pure and drinkable for months at a time. Never any slime
> unless the container wasn't cleaned properly to begin with.
>
The one thing I use bottled water for is filling my Camelbak. I use the
cheaper brands available in my local supermarket. The Camelbak is never
filled with anything else and its never got slimy, smelly or bad tasting.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Shawn]

bagmaker wrote:
> Try ebay for imitation bladders, store always in the freezer, I dont
> think I would bother drying the bladder before freezing, the bugs will
> still be there.
>
> Anybody know of a decent, economical, NO LEAK hi flow valve for the
> damn things?? This part drives me berserk, they either leak or dont
> give you more than a sip at a time.

Camelback makes straight and 90 deg shut-off valves that plug into the
hose just up stream of the bite valve.



Shawn

[FreeFlight107]

> One of the bladders I'm using now is 3 years old. I carry two: one for
> hydration, one for survival.
>
> Good flying,
> Bullwinkle- -
>
I'm is the same camp as Mr. Bulwinkle, one for hydration, one for
survival, and cleanliness is next to Godliness in all water systems!

About the motion sickness, I owned larger sailboats for a long time
and found that passengers could even get over seasickness (Mal de
Mer), by staying still, either sitting or standing, and looking at the
horizon. Many studies I'm read verify that it's the conflict between
the Equilibrium/Balance sytem (the vestibular system) vs the visual
system that cause the uneasyness. Concious training of the eyes vs.
head motion will reduce/eliminate the motion sickness. Even though I'd
sailed for over 30 years on & off before taking up soaring, my first
few soaring flights of any length and violence would give me "Queasy
Stomach" until we went into interthermal flight.
All in all, I'd recomend trying to get the attention away from the
center of the thermal circle and looking out toward the horizon more.

Many thanks to Dr. Alex for his excellent discussion of the causes of
the motion sicknes and its association with toxic substance control by
the body.

FreeFlight Libelle