1979 Tiger for Sale

[Flynn]

Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new SR22
for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
Tiger's for sale.

Latest info is at
http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info if
interested is also at the above site.

Patrick Flynn
Sammamish, WA
79 Tiger N4543A KRNT

[hnelson]

Looks like a good plane at a good price.

Howard
C182P

"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new SR22
> for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
> Tiger's for sale.
>
> Latest info is at
> http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info
if
> interested is also at the above site.
>
> Patrick Flynn
> Sammamish, WA
> 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Flynn" wrote:
> Apparently. I was very surprised. They're quoting 2 wks +/- for
the -22's
> from order acceptance. Not sure on the 20's but I believe it is
slightly
> longer. I think they produced 51 airplanes in July. The sales rep
said
> production capacity is now 3 per day.

This has got to be killing Cessna, Piper, Mooney and Beechcraft. I
wonder if market saturation is in Cirrus's future. Are they near
filling a pent-up demand for new airplanes of modern design?

Congratulations on the new bird. God bless guys like you who buy new
airplanes, thereby creating used airplanes for the rest of us!
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Flynn]

I think Diamond's going to have the same impact. Clean designs, good
pricing, better performance. What's not to like?
I'm hoping that Lancair can get their production act together so that there
are 3 good competitors out there.
As for creating used planes...what I'd like to do now is create a used plane
buyer!

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Flynn" wrote:
> > Apparently. I was very surprised. They're quoting 2 wks +/- for
> the -22's
> > from order acceptance. Not sure on the 20's but I believe it is
> slightly
> > longer. I think they produced 51 airplanes in July. The sales rep
> said
> > production capacity is now 3 per day.
>
> This has got to be killing Cessna, Piper, Mooney and Beechcraft. I
> wonder if market saturation is in Cirrus's future. Are they near
> filling a pent-up demand for new airplanes of modern design?
>
> Congratulations on the new bird. God bless guys like you who buy new
> airplanes, thereby creating used airplanes for the rest of us!
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>

[Montblack]

("Flynn" wrote)
>Latest info is at
http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
>I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info
if
>interested is also at the above site.

(Below)
I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?

105 mph?
13.5 gph?
180 hp?

Aircraft Specifications:
Aircraft Manufacturer: GRUMMAN AMERICAN AVN. CORP.
Aircraft Model: AA-5B
Aircraft Type Fixed wing single engine
Aircraft Category: Land
Year AC Manufactured: 1979
Engines: 1
Seats: 4
Weight: CLASS 1
Speed: 105 mph
Engine Manufacturer: LYCOMING
Engine Model: O&VO-360 SER
Engine Type: Reciprocating
Horse Power: 180
Fuel: 13.50 gph

--
Montblack

[Javier Henderson]

"Montblack" > writes:

> ("Flynn" wrote)
> >Latest info is at
> http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> >I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info
> if
> >interested is also at the above site.
>
> (Below)
> I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?
>
> 105 mph?
> 13.5 gph?
> 180 hp?

The Tiger has a 180HP engine, and cruises, on the average, at about
130 to 135 KTAS on about 9.5 gpph, at around 7000 to 9000'.

-jav (former Tiger owner, more than once)

[Juan E Jimenez]

What's the endurance? Are there standard and long range tank versions?

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Montblack" > writes:
>
> > ("Flynn" wrote)
> > >Latest info is at
> > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > >I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
info
> > if
> > >interested is also at the above site.
> >
> > (Below)
> > I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?
> >
> > 105 mph?
> > 13.5 gph?
> > 180 hp?
>
> The Tiger has a 180HP engine, and cruises, on the average, at about
> 130 to 135 KTAS on about 9.5 gpph, at around 7000 to 9000'.
>
> -jav (former Tiger owner, more than once)

[Flynn]

Let's see...I routinely see 135-138kts @ 75% @ 7500'.
I plan for 11 gph and usually get 10gph @ 7500'.
Endurance is around 4 hours 30 mins with 30 min reserve (VFR)
There's only the std version to my knowledge in the AA5B models though I've
heard rumor of a long-range STC.

Does have the 180hp engine
"Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
news:Oc_1b.241536$Ho3.31159@sccrnsc03...
> What's the endurance? Are there standard and long range tank versions?
>
> "Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Montblack" > writes:
> >
> > > ("Flynn" wrote)
> > > >Latest info is at
> > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > >I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> info
> > > if
> > > >interested is also at the above site.
> > >
> > > (Below)
> > > I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?
> > >
> > > 105 mph?
> > > 13.5 gph?
> > > 180 hp?
> >
> > The Tiger has a 180HP engine, and cruises, on the average, at about
> > 130 to 135 KTAS on about 9.5 gpph, at around 7000 to 9000'.
> >
> > -jav (former Tiger owner, more than once)
>
>

[Flynn]

I should, of course, add that YMMV.
The engine on N4543A has less than 200 hours on it and I've had it rigged by
a very knowledgable Grumman A&P.

"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:Pz_1b.183783$Oz4.49578@rwcrnsc54...
> Let's see...I routinely see 135-138kts @ 75% @ 7500'.
> I plan for 11 gph and usually get 10gph @ 7500'.
> Endurance is around 4 hours 30 mins with 30 min reserve (VFR)
> There's only the std version to my knowledge in the AA5B models though
I've
> heard rumor of a long-range STC.
>
> Does have the 180hp engine
> "Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
> news:Oc_1b.241536$Ho3.31159@sccrnsc03...
> > What's the endurance? Are there standard and long range tank versions?
> >
> > "Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Montblack" > writes:
> > >
> > > > ("Flynn" wrote)
> > > > >Latest info is at
> > > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > > >I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there.
Contact
> > info
> > > > if
> > > > >interested is also at the above site.
> > > >
> > > > (Below)
> > > > I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?
> > > >
> > > > 105 mph?
> > > > 13.5 gph?
> > > > 180 hp?
> > >
> > > The Tiger has a 180HP engine, and cruises, on the average, at about
> > > 130 to 135 KTAS on about 9.5 gpph, at around 7000 to 9000'.
> > >
> > > -jav (former Tiger owner, more than once)
> >
> >
>
>

[Mark T. Mueller]

When I looked into the SR-22, the deal-killer for me was insurance. The
rates on Cirrus have been astronomical due to more than one fatal in less
than 6 months, with no apparent benefit from the BRS. As far as I know, the
insurance companies have really jacked up the rates on all Cirrus models.
The factory is subsidizing first year insurance for new owners.

If they don't figure out the insurance thing, they will hit a brick wall. I
am paying around $1K/yr for my Tiger. I can't imaging paying over $6K/yr for
a fixed gear single, and from what I have heard it doesn't matter if you are
a 500 hour instrument pilot or not... At that rate, it would be better to
find a nice used twin.

But I agree, if they get the insurance thing under control, Cessna and
Mooney are toast. They will have to come up with a 6-seater to compete with
Beech. If they come up with a 6-seat design that has comparable performance
to the A36, Beech will be toast as well.

Mark
AA-5B at HEF


"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Flynn" wrote:
> > Apparently. I was very surprised. They're quoting 2 wks +/- for
> the -22's
> > from order acceptance. Not sure on the 20's but I believe it is
> slightly
> > longer. I think they produced 51 airplanes in July. The sales rep
> said
> > production capacity is now 3 per day.
>
> This has got to be killing Cessna, Piper, Mooney and Beechcraft. I
> wonder if market saturation is in Cirrus's future. Are they near
> filling a pent-up demand for new airplanes of modern design?
>
> Congratulations on the new bird. God bless guys like you who buy new
> airplanes, thereby creating used airplanes for the rest of us!
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>

[Mark T. Mueller]

Ditto my numbers. I see 135+ routinely. I plan 10gph, and leaned out at
altitude can get slightly less at 2600 RPM.

Mark
AA-5B at HEF


"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Montblack" > writes:
>
> > ("Flynn" wrote)
> > >Latest info is at
> > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > >I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
info
> > if
> > >interested is also at the above site.
> >
> > (Below)
> > I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?
> >
> > 105 mph?
> > 13.5 gph?
> > 180 hp?
>
> The Tiger has a 180HP engine, and cruises, on the average, at about
> 130 to 135 KTAS on about 9.5 gpph, at around 7000 to 9000'.
>
> -jav (former Tiger owner, more than once)

[David Megginson]

"Mark T. Mueller" > writes:

> If they don't figure out the insurance thing, they will hit a brick
> wall. I am paying around $1K/yr for my Tiger. I can't imaging paying
> over $6K/yr for a fixed gear single, and from what I have heard it
> doesn't matter if you are a 500 hour instrument pilot or not... At
> that rate, it would be better to find a nice used twin.

Are you sure that it's not just the difference in hull value? The
hull portion of the insurance for my 1979 Warrior II was about USD
1,350 for USD 50,000 coverage last year. A new SR22 is worth nearly
seven times that, so I'd expect to pay about seven times as much for
hull coverage, even though my liability was the same.


All the best,


David

[Mark T. Mueller]

I may be all wrong, but I thought the bulk of insurance premiums was tied up
in the liability, not hull.

Are you buying $1M smooth coverage?


"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Mark T. Mueller" > writes:
>
> > If they don't figure out the insurance thing, they will hit a brick
> > wall. I am paying around $1K/yr for my Tiger. I can't imaging paying
> > over $6K/yr for a fixed gear single, and from what I have heard it
> > doesn't matter if you are a 500 hour instrument pilot or not... At
> > that rate, it would be better to find a nice used twin.
>
> Are you sure that it's not just the difference in hull value? The
> hull portion of the insurance for my 1979 Warrior II was about USD
> 1,350 for USD 50,000 coverage last year. A new SR22 is worth nearly
> seven times that, so I'd expect to pay about seven times as much for
> hull coverage, even though my liability was the same.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

[Javier Henderson]

"Juan E Jimenez" > writes:

> What's the endurance? Are there standard and long range tank versions?

Tanks hold 51 gallons usable, there are tabs to let you load 38 usable
so you get a little more useful load for pax+baggage. There's an STC'd
18 gallon aux tank available, it robs some space off the relatively small
baggage area so I never considered it.

-jav

[Flynn]

It stands to reason that the premium is a combination of factors that add to
up the level of exposure the insuror feels they have. Complex airplane and
low-time pilot? Bigger risk. Simple airplane, high hull value? Bigger
risk though in different amounts.
So, yes the SR-22 would be 4x the Tigers hull value. And it's more complex
though not like stepping up to a P210 for example. And frankly the accident
record, for whatever reasons, hasn't been stellar particularly given the
size of the fleet. So higher premiums.

Talking with Cirrus, I didn't qualify for the insurance reduction program as
I already have an IR.

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Mark T. Mueller" > writes:
>
> > I may be all wrong, but I thought the bulk of insurance premiums was
> > tied up in the liability, not hull.
>
> I think that's wrong. I pay 2.7% of insured value for in-motion and
> not-in-motion hull insurance. More experienced pilots probably pay
> less, but I'd be surprised (happy, but surprised) to see it get much
> under 2%. What do people pay down in the U.S. for
> in-motion/not-in-motion?
>
> > Are you buying $1M smooth coverage?
>
> I have CAD 1M (USD 715K) total combined liability -- no per-seat
> maximum -- at CAD 515/year (USD 370/year). That's a small fraction of
> what I pay for hull coverage, even for a plane that's worth only USD
> 50K. I was an 85-hour, newly-minted, unrated PPL at the time, so
> that's about as expensive as liability would get.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

[Snowbird]

"Montblack" > wrote in message >...

> I copied this from the "Registration" link. Are those numbers right?

> 105 mph?

No. Substitute "3" for "0" (of course DA, weight, power setting
are factors)

> 13.5 gph?

No. Substitute "0" for "3" (of course, DA and power setting are factors)
Must be where the missing "3" went.

> 180 hp?

Yes, with a few 200 hp conversions flying around.

The main limitation of the Tiger IMO is the fixed-pitch prop.
They are usually pitced for cruise airspeed, so it's a mediocre
climber at max gross and high DA.

Cheers,
Sydney
(Grumman AA5B "Tigger")

[Satellite]

Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
>>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
They are available from $75000 and up...
Look for yourself www.aso.com
And you get recent avionics, lower time,
nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
ad a new engine and you are set...
Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...


"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new SR22
> for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
> Tiger's for sale.
>
> Latest info is at
> http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info
if
> interested is also at the above site.
>
> Patrick Flynn
> Sammamish, WA
> 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
>
>
>

[Satellite]

http://www.aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=75661

http://www.aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=75662

http://www.aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=74491
this is a nice one...

"Satellite" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> They are available from $75000 and up...
> Look for yourself www.aso.com
> And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> ad a new engine and you are set...
> Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
SR22
> > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
> > Tiger's for sale.
> >
> > Latest info is at
> > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
info
> if
> > interested is also at the above site.
> >
> > Patrick Flynn
> > Sammamish, WA
> > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Satellite" wrote:
in message om...
> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> They are available from $75000 and up...
> Look for yourself www.aso.com
> And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> ad a new engine and you are set...
> Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...

Look at the engine hours, numb nuts. Also, Flynn's airplane is at
least 20 knots faster and has an autopilot. Check the Grumman Tiger
prices in ASO, while ypu're blundering around in there.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Peter Gottlieb]

Fly a Tiger and then come back and tell me it handles like a Cessna.


"Satellite" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> They are available from $75000 and up...
> Look for yourself www.aso.com
> And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> ad a new engine and you are set...
> Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
SR22
> > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
> > Tiger's for sale.
> >
> > Latest info is at
> > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
info
> if
> > interested is also at the above site.
> >
> > Patrick Flynn
> > Sammamish, WA
> > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Satellite]

Sure - go 20kts faster for 20 years older you idiot.
And buy a new engine.
I checked the Tiger prices - they are for sale - not sold

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Satellite" wrote:
> in message om...
> > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
>
> Look at the engine hours, numb nuts. Also, Flynn's airplane is at
> least 20 knots faster and has an autopilot. Check the Grumman Tiger
> prices in ASO, while ypu're blundering around in there.
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>
>

[Satellite]

I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
And what are you telling me here?
Are you trying to do some loops and steep turns?
Any plane racing in your future?
Handling better - for what?
Newer is better - PERIOD.


"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
.net...
> Fly a Tiger and then come back and tell me it handles like a Cessna.
>
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
> >
> >
> > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
> SR22
> > > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so
the
> > > Tiger's for sale.
> > >
> > > Latest info is at
> > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> info
> > if
> > > interested is also at the above site.
> > >
> > > Patrick Flynn
> > > Sammamish, WA
> > > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Satellite" wrote:
> I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!

Somehow I doubt you've spent much time in light aircraft of any age.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Satellite]

I don't think that's the issue here. (PPL - 110h) Why are you trying to
discredit me anyways? Running out of arguments?

If you buy the Tiger you will have to update the avionics sooner or later -
this will cost you incl. install about $20000 to $25000 - If you buy a used
C172 (newer model) like 1997 or newer with a runout engine, you spend about
$21000 for a new engine. So essentially for the same price in the end you
will have an airplane that was build 20 years later. Not to mention the
paint, the interior, the glass etc.

If you are really smart and want to save some money and get more speed,
consider spending rather $40000 on an STC for an engine conversion to the
Centurion 1.7 engine. Then you can burn jet fuel in a C172 at a rate of
4.6gal/h at 110 kts. Now that's efficient. And because it's a turbo
normalized diesel engine running on jet fuel you will have full power - even
up to 12000 feet.

http://www.centurion-engines.com/c17/c17_perform.htm

And don't talk to me like I am an idiot, I was an aircraft mechanic and
helicopter mechanic in the German Army - I did my research. I will buy a
used C172 after I get my IFR. I will buy one with a runout engine and
convert to the mentioned jet diesel. The conversion comes with everything
firewall forward. So for about $110000 I can go 110 kts and use only about
4.5 gal of jet fuel. You buy what you like, but I recommend to take a piece
of paper and calculate the "total cost" of flying. I will still fly when you
run out of credit cards at the FBO to gas up.


"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Satellite" wrote:
> > I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
>
> Somehow I doubt you've spent much time in light aircraft of any age.
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>
>

[Peter Gottlieb]

Are you flying in the US or in Europe?


"Satellite" > wrote in message
m...
> I don't think that's the issue here. (PPL - 110h) Why are you trying to
> discredit me anyways? Running out of arguments?
>
> If you buy the Tiger you will have to update the avionics sooner or
later -
> this will cost you incl. install about $20000 to $25000 - If you buy a
used
> C172 (newer model) like 1997 or newer with a runout engine, you spend
about
> $21000 for a new engine. So essentially for the same price in the end you
> will have an airplane that was build 20 years later. Not to mention the
> paint, the interior, the glass etc.
>
> If you are really smart and want to save some money and get more speed,
> consider spending rather $40000 on an STC for an engine conversion to the
> Centurion 1.7 engine. Then you can burn jet fuel in a C172 at a rate of
> 4.6gal/h at 110 kts. Now that's efficient. And because it's a turbo
> normalized diesel engine running on jet fuel you will have full power -
even
> up to 12000 feet.
>
> http://www.centurion-engines.com/c17/c17_perform.htm
>
> And don't talk to me like I am an idiot, I was an aircraft mechanic and
> helicopter mechanic in the German Army - I did my research. I will buy a
> used C172 after I get my IFR. I will buy one with a runout engine and
> convert to the mentioned jet diesel. The conversion comes with everything
> firewall forward. So for about $110000 I can go 110 kts and use only about
> 4.5 gal of jet fuel. You buy what you like, but I recommend to take a
piece
> of paper and calculate the "total cost" of flying. I will still fly when
you
> run out of credit cards at the FBO to gas up.
>
>
> "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Satellite" wrote:
> > > I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
> >
> > Somehow I doubt you've spent much time in light aircraft of any age.
> > --
> > Dan
> > C172RG at BFM
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Peter Gottlieb]

Newer is not necessarily better.

As far as handling goes, I am fully convinced the rapid roll rate of the
Grumman saved my butt one day last summer at an uncontrolled field in an
"encounter" with a very aerobatic NORDO Pitts in a very very unstandard
pattern.


"Satellite" > wrote in message
m...
> I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
> And what are you telling me here?
> Are you trying to do some loops and steep turns?
> Any plane racing in your future?
> Handling better - for what?
> Newer is better - PERIOD.
>
>
> "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
> .net...
> > Fly a Tiger and then come back and tell me it handles like a Cessna.
> >

[Satellite]

I fly in Florida...


"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
.net...
> Are you flying in the US or in Europe?
>
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I don't think that's the issue here. (PPL - 110h) Why are you trying to
> > discredit me anyways? Running out of arguments?
> >
> > If you buy the Tiger you will have to update the avionics sooner or
> later -
> > this will cost you incl. install about $20000 to $25000 - If you buy a
> used
> > C172 (newer model) like 1997 or newer with a runout engine, you spend
> about
> > $21000 for a new engine. So essentially for the same price in the end
you
> > will have an airplane that was build 20 years later. Not to mention the
> > paint, the interior, the glass etc.
> >
> > If you are really smart and want to save some money and get more speed,
> > consider spending rather $40000 on an STC for an engine conversion to
the
> > Centurion 1.7 engine. Then you can burn jet fuel in a C172 at a rate of
> > 4.6gal/h at 110 kts. Now that's efficient. And because it's a turbo
> > normalized diesel engine running on jet fuel you will have full power -
> even
> > up to 12000 feet.
> >
> > http://www.centurion-engines.com/c17/c17_perform.htm
> >
> > And don't talk to me like I am an idiot, I was an aircraft mechanic and
> > helicopter mechanic in the German Army - I did my research. I will buy a
> > used C172 after I get my IFR. I will buy one with a runout engine and
> > convert to the mentioned jet diesel. The conversion comes with
everything
> > firewall forward. So for about $110000 I can go 110 kts and use only
about
> > 4.5 gal of jet fuel. You buy what you like, but I recommend to take a
> piece
> > of paper and calculate the "total cost" of flying. I will still fly when
> you
> > run out of credit cards at the FBO to gas up.
> >
> >
> > "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Satellite" wrote:
> > > > I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
> > >
> > > Somehow I doubt you've spent much time in light aircraft of any age.
> > > --
> > > Dan
> > > C172RG at BFM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Satellite" wrote:
> I don't think that's the issue here. (PPL - 110h) Why are you
trying to
> discredit me anyways?

You did that yourself when you failed to notice that Flynn's Tiger has
a fairly fresh engine whereas the Cessnas you were touting were all
near or past TBO. You also said you wouldn't fly in anything older
than 20 years, a silly prejudice.

> Running out of arguments?

You also disregarded the fact that the Tiger has an autopilot worth
several thousand dollars.

> If you buy the Tiger you will have to update the avionics sooner or
later -
> this will cost you incl. install about $20000 to $25000 -

They've already been upgraded and will be ok for as long as the
Cessnas' will.

> And don't talk to me like I am an idiot,

Don't pop up in this newsgroup calling another poster's airplane a
joke without knowing what you're talking about - someone might think
you're an idiot.

>I was an aircraft mechanic and
> helicopter mechanic in the German Army - I did my research.

Then how come you didn't know the going price for a nice '79 Tiger?

If you want to by a runout Skyhawk and turn it into a diesel science
project, fine, please tell us all about it. But Flynn will probably
get what he's asking for the Tiger, and whoever buys it will pass you
on the airway.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

> I fly in Florida...

Well, no wonder! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Flynn]

Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03 and 51F)
a troll wandered by.....

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
om...
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
>...
> > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > They are available from $75000 and up...
>
> That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout engines,
> and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
>
> -Nathan

[Satellite]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Satellite" wrote:
> > I don't think that's the issue here. (PPL - 110h) Why are you
> trying to
> > discredit me anyways?
>
> You did that yourself when you failed to notice that Flynn's Tiger has
> a fairly fresh engine whereas the Cessnas you were touting were all
> near or past TBO. You also said you wouldn't fly in anything older
> than 20 years, a silly prejudice.

I drive a newer car and want a newer plane, easy. Has nothing to do with
prejudice, good taste maybe. I don't fly a plane with such a hiddious
looking interiour, that's for sure... Reminds me to much of a junker I drove
when I was jung...
>
> > Running out of arguments?
>
> You also disregarded the fact that the Tiger has an autopilot worth
> several thousand dollars.

Almost all newer Cessnas have autopilots too.
>
> > If you buy the Tiger you will have to update the avionics sooner or
> later -
> > this will cost you incl. install about $20000 to $25000 -
>
> They've already been upgraded and will be ok for as long as the
> Cessnas' will.

Yes, upgraded to a nonmatching set from different manufacturers. If you like
to fly like that, ok. I call that JUNK!!!
>
> > And don't talk to me like I am an idiot,
>
> Don't pop up in this newsgroup calling another poster's airplane a
> joke without knowing what you're talking about - someone might think
> you're an idiot.
>
> >I was an aircraft mechanic and
> > helicopter mechanic in the German Army - I did my research.
>
> Then how come you didn't know the going price for a nice '79 Tiger?

Show me one who pays that price! Good luck, he's gonna need it...
>
> If you want to by a runout Skyhawk and turn it into a diesel science
> project, fine, please tell us all about it. But Flynn will probably
> get what he's asking for the Tiger, and whoever buys it will pass you
> on the airway.

We talk about a runout, outdated Tiger. The Cessnas only need an engine
overhaul. And that's not a science project. It's approved in the USA and the
engine will also be used in the new Diamond aircrafts!

It looks to me like you have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't
you get it - It's still a 20 year old Tiger. But I think you are not a
stupid as you appear, since you fly a C172. But you do pay a lot more for RG
without getting much in return. Go figure...

And if he CAN sell it for that price. Congrats, there must be a lot more
idiots flying than I thought - it scares me... Kennedy jr. and John Denver
come to mind. One with no gas and no proper license and no medical in an
homebuild and the other flying into IFR without proper rating and after he
was warned not to go in a new plane he was not yet comfortable with (or he
would used the auto pilot)...
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>
>

[Flynn]

That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the group
messed up the placement....

I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra 300L's for
EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172 fuel,
and has visibility with the best I've flown.


"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03 and
51F)
> a troll wandered by.....
>
> "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> >
> > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout engines,
> > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> >
> > -Nathan
>
>

[Satellite]

I get it.
It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
Nice if you like old stuff.


"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the group
> messed up the placement....
>
> I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra 300L's
for
> EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172 fuel,
> and has visibility with the best I've flown.
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03 and
> 51F)
> > a troll wandered by.....
> >
> > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > >
> > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout engines,
> > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > >
> > > -Nathan
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Flynn]

You aren't an A&P and I doubt you're a pilot either....what you are is
clueless. I've never met anyone with either certification that says the
dumb ass stuff you've posted here.

What you are is a troll. 'Nuff said

"Satellite" > wrote in message
om...
> I get it.
> It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
> Nice if you like old stuff.
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> > That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the group
> > messed up the placement....
> >
> > I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra 300L's
> for
> > EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172
fuel,
> > and has visibility with the best I've flown.
> >
> >
> > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03 and
> > 51F)
> > > a troll wandered by.....
> > >
> > > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > >...
> > > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > >
> > > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout
engines,
> > > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > > >
> > > > -Nathan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Satellite]

What you believe is your beer.
Stating that I am not an A&P is simply retarded - I was. You doubt that I am
a pilot - I doubt that you have a brain. How can you make such statements
without knowing me you stupid ****. And while you're at it - go buy the
****ing Tiger and waste your money on old junk. You got my blessings...

"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:Ipg2b.252685$uu5.57804@sccrnsc04...
> You aren't an A&P and I doubt you're a pilot either....what you are is
> clueless. I've never met anyone with either certification that says the
> dumb ass stuff you've posted here.
>
> What you are is a troll. 'Nuff said
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I get it.
> > It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
> > Nice if you like old stuff.
> >
> >
> > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> > > That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the
group
> > > messed up the placement....
> > >
> > > I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra
300L's
> > for
> > > EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172
> fuel,
> > > and has visibility with the best I've flown.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > > > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03
and
> > > 51F)
> > > > a troll wandered by.....
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > > >...
> > > > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > > >
> > > > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout
> engines,
> > > > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Nathan
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Satellite]

Sorry, I overlooked - you own the plane currently, Flynn. Well, good luck
selling it then. As stated before, you will need it. And congratulations on
your new buy. I like the Cirrus design. Except the sidestick - but this
would open another discussion I rather avoid here.
Sat

"Satellite" > wrote in message
m...
> What you believe is your beer.
> Stating that I am not an A&P is simply retarded - I was. You doubt that I
am
> a pilot - I doubt that you have a brain. How can you make such statements
> without knowing me you stupid ****. And while you're at it - go buy the
> ****ing Tiger and waste your money on old junk. You got my blessings...
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:Ipg2b.252685$uu5.57804@sccrnsc04...
> > You aren't an A&P and I doubt you're a pilot either....what you are is
> > clueless. I've never met anyone with either certification that says the
> > dumb ass stuff you've posted here.
> >
> > What you are is a troll. 'Nuff said
> >
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I get it.
> > > It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
> > > Nice if you like old stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> > > > That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the
> group
> > > > messed up the placement....
> > > >
> > > > I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra
> 300L's
> > > for
> > > > EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172
> > fuel,
> > > > and has visibility with the best I've flown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > > news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > > > > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03
> and
> > > > 51F)
> > > > > a troll wandered by.....
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > > > >...
> > > > > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout
> > engines,
> > > > > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Nathan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Roger Tracy]

Why do you guys even respond to this flame bait?

Nice plane, Flynn. It'll sell.

"Satellite" > wrote in message
m...
> What you believe is your beer.
> Stating that I am not an A&P is simply retarded - I was. You doubt that I
am
> a pilot - I doubt that you have a brain. How can you make such statements
> without knowing me you stupid ****. And while you're at it - go buy the
> ****ing Tiger and waste your money on old junk. You got my blessings...
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:Ipg2b.252685$uu5.57804@sccrnsc04...
> > You aren't an A&P and I doubt you're a pilot either....what you are is
> > clueless. I've never met anyone with either certification that says the
> > dumb ass stuff you've posted here.
> >
> > What you are is a troll. 'Nuff said
> >
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I get it.
> > > It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
> > > Nice if you like old stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> > > > That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the
> group
> > > > messed up the placement....
> > > >
> > > > I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra
> 300L's
> > > for
> > > > EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on 172
> > fuel,
> > > > and has visibility with the best I've flown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > > news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > > > > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @ 30.03
> and
> > > > 51F)
> > > > > a troll wandered by.....
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > > > >...
> > > > > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout
> > engines,
> > > > > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Nathan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Satellite wrote:
>
> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:

You seem to be doing real well with that lure. What sort of trolling motor
are you using?

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

[Aarfy]

Amen.

Why have a battle of wits with an unarmed man (troll)...

"Roger Tracy" > wrote in message
...
> Why do you guys even respond to this flame bait?
>
> Nice plane, Flynn. It'll sell.
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> m...
> > What you believe is your beer.
> > Stating that I am not an A&P is simply retarded - I was. You doubt that
I
> am
> > a pilot - I doubt that you have a brain. How can you make such
statements
> > without knowing me you stupid ****. And while you're at it - go buy the
> > ****ing Tiger and waste your money on old junk. You got my blessings...
> >
> > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > news:Ipg2b.252685$uu5.57804@sccrnsc04...
> > > You aren't an A&P and I doubt you're a pilot either....what you are is
> > > clueless. I've never met anyone with either certification that says
the
> > > dumb ass stuff you've posted here.
> > >
> > > What you are is a troll. 'Nuff said
> > >
> > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > I get it.
> > > > It's like driving an 1979 Porsche or Corvette convertible.
> > > > Nice if you like old stuff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > > news:WCf2b.251136$Ho3.33197@sccrnsc03...
> > > > > That wasn't aimed at you Nate. Bad targetting on my reply to the
> > group
> > > > > messed up the placement....
> > > > >
> > > > > I will say I flew 172's in training, an Aerobat for spins, Extra
> > 300L's
> > > > for
> > > > > EMT/Aero and an SR22....the Tiger's a great handler, 182 fast on
172
> > > fuel,
> > > > > and has visibility with the best I've flown.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:Szf2b.250843$YN5.170675@sccrnsc01...
> > > > > > Wow! While I was out flying down to MMV at 139KTAS (7500' @
30.03
> > and
> > > > > 51F)
> > > > > > a troll wandered by.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> > > > > > om...
> > > > > > > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > > > > > >...
> > > > > > > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > > > > > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > > > > > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > > > > > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > > > > > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's a bold statement. The Cessna's you posted had runout
> > > engines,
> > > > > > > and cruise 15 kts slower than the Tiger.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Nathan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[RDA]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Satellite wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
>
> You seem to be doing real well with that lure. What sort of trolling motor
> are you using?
>
> George Patterson
> Brute force has an elegance all its own.

Remember, he ain't fum nowheres aroun' hyear.....

Satellite the Troll admitted in an earlier post that:

"I was an aircraft mechanic and
helicopter mechanic in the German Army "

Wonder what kind of visa he's here on....because

Satellite the Troll admitted in an earlier post that:

"I fly in Florida..."

Makes ya wanna go "Hmmmmmmm".

[Satellite]

G.R. Patterson, what do you want from me?
Admitting that I was in the German army?
I thing it's more a statement of public service!
(Admitting sounds like I am guilty of something.)
Ok, I am guilty - I served; did you?
And I live in Florida for 14 years now you troll.
And I am a dual citizen - do you have problem with that?
Give it a rest. You can't concentrate on the facts anyways.
Fly your old junker and be happy...


"RDA" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Satellite wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> >
> > You seem to be doing real well with that lure. What sort of trolling
motor
> > are you using?
> >
> > George Patterson
> > Brute force has an elegance all its own.
>
> Remember, he ain't fum nowheres aroun' hyear.....
>
> Satellite the Troll admitted in an earlier post that:
>
> "I was an aircraft mechanic and
> helicopter mechanic in the German Army "
>
> Wonder what kind of visa he's here on....because
>
> Satellite the Troll admitted in an earlier post that:
>
> "I fly in Florida..."
>
> Makes ya wanna go "Hmmmmmmm".
>
>
>
>
>

[Montblack]

"Satellite" wrote
<snip>
> Give it a rest. You can't concentrate on the facts anyways.
> Fly your old junker and be happy...


Speaking of old junkers...
http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_prop_warbirds/112_ju52_1

--
Montblack

[G.R. Patterson III]

Satellite wrote:
>
> G.R. Patterson, what do you want from me?

Well, for starters, I'd prefer that you only attribute things to me which I
actually said.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

[Dave S]

Sorry for feeding the trolls..

BUT I WILL TAKE A TIGER ANY DAY over a 172.. even a NEW one..
And Ive got enough time in both types to make that decision.

Dave PPSEL

Satellite wrote:

> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
>
>>>>Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
>>>>
> Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> They are available from $75000 and up...
> Look for yourself www.aso.com
> And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> ad a new engine and you are set...
> Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
>
>>Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new SR22
>>for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
>>Tiger's for sale.
>>
>>Latest info is at
>>http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
>>I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact info
>>
> if
>
>>interested is also at the above site.
>>
>>Patrick Flynn
>>Sammamish, WA
>>79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Mark T. Mueller]

What planet is this guy from?

Lower insurance? With what underwriter? I want quotes! What hull coverage?
$1M smooth?

Bull****.

And take a look at the AD list for the "New Cessnas", and compare that to
the AD list for an "old piece of **** Tiger" whilst you are at it.

Newer is better? Ask some of the Cirrus owners that have had more time in
warrantee repair than hours in the air. Come to think of it, has this guy
EVER been to OSH or Sun-n-Fun? I have seen more beautiful restored "pieces
of ****" than some of the "Newer is better" models.

Interior restoration is cheap. Not sure why you would pay a premium for
that... I can get Comforfoam for $16/sheet and get new covers from Airtex
for a few hundred bucks that look and feel beauiful. A monkey could restore
an interior. Oh yeah, that's right, this guy is from Europe (didn't we have
to bail them out TWICE, three times if you count the Cold War???)

I have seen "Newer is Better" with very run out and abused motors that are
just not worth the cash.

I for one am not convinced "Newer is Better". And NO ONE knows how the
Centurian or SMA turbodiesels will work out. What if we find the TBO is only
1000 hours? The Centurian is "disposable", i.e. NOT overhaulable. The SMA is
ridiculously expensive (I thought French industry was subsidized by the
socialist governments over there?)

Sounds like another piece of Eurotrash that moved across the pond where the
"grass is greener". Seen many of this ilk in EUCOM. Why move to the States
if they are so much smarter and better than us old hot-rodders fixin' up
"pieces of ****"???

Mark "Piece of **** Driver" Mueller
Tiger N1533R


"Satellite" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> They are available from $75000 and up...
> Look for yourself www.aso.com
> And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> ad a new engine and you are set...
> Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
>
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
SR22
> > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so the
> > Tiger's for sale.
> >
> > Latest info is at
> > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
info
> if
> > interested is also at the above site.
> >
> > Patrick Flynn
> > Sammamish, WA
> > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Mike Noel]

While we are on the subject of Tigers, did anyone else notice the article in
Flying recently about the Tiger driver in the Bay area. The author made a
statement that a 1978 Tiger would go for about $49,500. I assume he was
assuming an average Tiger. I think half of the people on this newsgroup
would be camping overnight to be first in line to buy an average Tiger for
that price. The best price I've seen recently was $62K for a 'Chiger'
upgrade that included a Tiger spar. Does anyone here think that $49,500 is
a realistic price?

--
Regards,
Mike

"Mark T. Mueller" > wrote in message
...
> What planet is this guy from?
>
> Lower insurance? With what underwriter? I want quotes! What hull coverage?
> $1M smooth?
>
> Bull****.
>
> And take a look at the AD list for the "New Cessnas", and compare that to
> the AD list for an "old piece of **** Tiger" whilst you are at it.
>
> Newer is better? Ask some of the Cirrus owners that have had more time in
> warrantee repair than hours in the air. Come to think of it, has this guy
> EVER been to OSH or Sun-n-Fun? I have seen more beautiful restored "pieces
> of ****" than some of the "Newer is better" models.
>
> Interior restoration is cheap. Not sure why you would pay a premium for
> that... I can get Comforfoam for $16/sheet and get new covers from Airtex
> for a few hundred bucks that look and feel beauiful. A monkey could
restore
> an interior. Oh yeah, that's right, this guy is from Europe (didn't we
have
> to bail them out TWICE, three times if you count the Cold War???)
>
> I have seen "Newer is Better" with very run out and abused motors that are
> just not worth the cash.
>
> I for one am not convinced "Newer is Better". And NO ONE knows how the
> Centurian or SMA turbodiesels will work out. What if we find the TBO is
only
> 1000 hours? The Centurian is "disposable", i.e. NOT overhaulable. The SMA
is
> ridiculously expensive (I thought French industry was subsidized by the
> socialist governments over there?)
>
> Sounds like another piece of Eurotrash that moved across the pond where
the
> "grass is greener". Seen many of this ilk in EUCOM. Why move to the States
> if they are so much smarter and better than us old hot-rodders fixin' up
> "pieces of ****"???
>
> Mark "Piece of **** Driver" Mueller
> Tiger N1533R
>
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
> >
> >
> > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
> SR22
> > > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so
the
> > > Tiger's for sale.
> > >
> > > Latest info is at
> > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> info
> > if
> > > interested is also at the above site.
> > >
> > > Patrick Flynn
> > > Sammamish, WA
> > > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Peter Gottlieb]

The Cheetah that I was flying was worth about $45k (new engine & prop).
Then it went in for 3 months for a complete paint job, replacement of
plastic parts, new windshield, and avionics upgrades and now it is worth
closer to $70k. By "worth" I mean what people have offered, unsolicted, to
buy it.


"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> While we are on the subject of Tigers, did anyone else notice the article
in
> Flying recently about the Tiger driver in the Bay area. The author made a
> statement that a 1978 Tiger would go for about $49,500. I assume he was
> assuming an average Tiger. I think half of the people on this newsgroup
> would be camping overnight to be first in line to buy an average Tiger for
> that price. The best price I've seen recently was $62K for a 'Chiger'
> upgrade that included a Tiger spar. Does anyone here think that $49,500
is
> a realistic price?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> "Mark T. Mueller" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What planet is this guy from?
> >
> > Lower insurance? With what underwriter? I want quotes! What hull
coverage?
> > $1M smooth?
> >
> > Bull****.
> >
> > And take a look at the AD list for the "New Cessnas", and compare that
to
> > the AD list for an "old piece of **** Tiger" whilst you are at it.
> >
> > Newer is better? Ask some of the Cirrus owners that have had more time
in
> > warrantee repair than hours in the air. Come to think of it, has this
guy
> > EVER been to OSH or Sun-n-Fun? I have seen more beautiful restored
"pieces
> > of ****" than some of the "Newer is better" models.
> >
> > Interior restoration is cheap. Not sure why you would pay a premium for
> > that... I can get Comforfoam for $16/sheet and get new covers from
Airtex
> > for a few hundred bucks that look and feel beauiful. A monkey could
> restore
> > an interior. Oh yeah, that's right, this guy is from Europe (didn't we
> have
> > to bail them out TWICE, three times if you count the Cold War???)
> >
> > I have seen "Newer is Better" with very run out and abused motors that
are
> > just not worth the cash.
> >
> > I for one am not convinced "Newer is Better". And NO ONE knows how the
> > Centurian or SMA turbodiesels will work out. What if we find the TBO is
> only
> > 1000 hours? The Centurian is "disposable", i.e. NOT overhaulable. The
SMA
> is
> > ridiculously expensive (I thought French industry was subsidized by the
> > socialist governments over there?)
> >
> > Sounds like another piece of Eurotrash that moved across the pond where
> the
> > "grass is greener". Seen many of this ilk in EUCOM. Why move to the
States
> > if they are so much smarter and better than us old hot-rodders fixin' up
> > "pieces of ****"???
> >
> > Mark "Piece of **** Driver" Mueller
> > Tiger N1533R
> >
> >
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > > > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
> > SR22
> > > > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so
> the
> > > > Tiger's for sale.
> > > >
> > > > Latest info is at
> > > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> > info
> > > if
> > > > interested is also at the above site.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Flynn
> > > > Sammamish, WA
> > > > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Mark T. Mueller]

I don't think you will find a decent one in that price range. Maybe a "fire
sale" or the owner's estate is liquidating or there is some significant
damage history.

I haven't seen a quality Tiger in that price range in several years... A
$49K Tiger today will probably require at least $20K in work to bring it up
to "decent" shape, more if you want a reliable IFR panel (a LOT have crappy
Narco stacks, IMHO I wouldn't risk my life in IMC with Narco equipment, too
many bad experiences.)


"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> While we are on the subject of Tigers, did anyone else notice the article
in
> Flying recently about the Tiger driver in the Bay area. The author made a
> statement that a 1978 Tiger would go for about $49,500. I assume he was
> assuming an average Tiger. I think half of the people on this newsgroup
> would be camping overnight to be first in line to buy an average Tiger for
> that price. The best price I've seen recently was $62K for a 'Chiger'
> upgrade that included a Tiger spar. Does anyone here think that $49,500
is
> a realistic price?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> "Mark T. Mueller" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What planet is this guy from?
> >
> > Lower insurance? With what underwriter? I want quotes! What hull
coverage?
> > $1M smooth?
> >
> > Bull****.
> >
> > And take a look at the AD list for the "New Cessnas", and compare that
to
> > the AD list for an "old piece of **** Tiger" whilst you are at it.
> >
> > Newer is better? Ask some of the Cirrus owners that have had more time
in
> > warrantee repair than hours in the air. Come to think of it, has this
guy
> > EVER been to OSH or Sun-n-Fun? I have seen more beautiful restored
"pieces
> > of ****" than some of the "Newer is better" models.
> >
> > Interior restoration is cheap. Not sure why you would pay a premium for
> > that... I can get Comforfoam for $16/sheet and get new covers from
Airtex
> > for a few hundred bucks that look and feel beauiful. A monkey could
> restore
> > an interior. Oh yeah, that's right, this guy is from Europe (didn't we
> have
> > to bail them out TWICE, three times if you count the Cold War???)
> >
> > I have seen "Newer is Better" with very run out and abused motors that
are
> > just not worth the cash.
> >
> > I for one am not convinced "Newer is Better". And NO ONE knows how the
> > Centurian or SMA turbodiesels will work out. What if we find the TBO is
> only
> > 1000 hours? The Centurian is "disposable", i.e. NOT overhaulable. The
SMA
> is
> > ridiculously expensive (I thought French industry was subsidized by the
> > socialist governments over there?)
> >
> > Sounds like another piece of Eurotrash that moved across the pond where
> the
> > "grass is greener". Seen many of this ilk in EUCOM. Why move to the
States
> > if they are so much smarter and better than us old hot-rodders fixin' up
> > "pieces of ****"???
> >
> > Mark "Piece of **** Driver" Mueller
> > Tiger N1533R
> >
> >
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > > > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
> > SR22
> > > > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so
> the
> > > > Tiger's for sale.
> > > >
> > > > Latest info is at
> > > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> > info
> > > if
> > > > interested is also at the above site.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Flynn
> > > > Sammamish, WA
> > > > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Roger Tracy]

Not for something I'd want. It seems like every time I read an article about
some older plane, they have really low values they're quoting. It's like
they
went and dug out their 5 - 10 yr old copy of Aviation Consumer.

What's the point if you find a bargain price and have to pay $20k to get it
up to snuff?

"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone here think that $49,500 is
> a realistic price?
>

[Flynn]

Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.

"Roger Tracy" > wrote in message
.. .
> Not for something I'd want. It seems like every time I read an article
about
> some older plane, they have really low values they're quoting. It's like
> they
> went and dug out their 5 - 10 yr old copy of Aviation Consumer.
>
> What's the point if you find a bargain price and have to pay $20k to get
it
> up to snuff?
>
> "Mike Noel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Does anyone here think that $49,500 is
> > a realistic price?
> >
>
>
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Flynn" wrote:
> Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.

What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
Unbelievable!!!
:^)

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[David Megginson]

"Dan Luke" > writes:

> "Flynn" wrote:
>> Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
>
> What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
> Unbelievable!!!

And I was going to offer to haul it away to my home airfield for free,
as a favour, of course, to save the expense of a wrecker.


All the best,


David

[Flynn]

Proof-positive that God still works miracles!!! ;)

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Flynn" wrote:
> > Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
>
> What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
> Unbelievable!!!
> :^)
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>

[Captain Wubba]

I couldn't tell if you were trolling or just stunningly misinformed
and inexperienced. Seeing in another post that you have 110 hours, I'm
going to assume the latter. Your statement abot 'newer is better -
period' is just plain silly. I can show you a late 60s Cessna 182 at
my home airport that will put any new 182 to shame. 100 hour engine,
beautiful paint, great avionics, stunning leather interior. All for
less than 1/2 the cost of a similarly equipped 'new' 182. The owner
bought a 'normal' 182 (with shaky P&I) and had it fixed up *exactly*
the way he wanted it. Since he paid a fraction of the cost of new, he
could afford to have it done his way. Ask any A&P (or even any pilot
with more than 110 hours) and ask them how important airframe age is.
They'll tell you 'not very'. A properly maintained non-pressurized
small plane can fly indefinitely...go do some research in the NTSB
database, you will find *very* few accidents relating to airframe age.

I'd take this 'old' Cessna over a new 182 any day. What exactly can
you do with a new 182 that I couldn't do with this older one, that
cost less than 1/2 the price? Hull insurance is lower, so I save money
on an ongoing basis. On a common, simple plane like a 182 (or even a
not-so common plane like my 1963 Beech Musketeer) maintenence and
parts are not significantly greater in cost than for a much newer
plane. Bournelli's law applies equally to 1963 and 2003 airplanes, so
they both can get the job of flying done. So what? What *exactly*
makes the 2003 plane better?


Cap

"Satellite" > wrote in message >...
> I don't get into an older than 20 year plane!
> And what are you telling me here?
> Are you trying to do some loops and steep turns?
> Any plane racing in your future?
> Handling better - for what?
> Newer is better - PERIOD.
>
>
> "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
> .net...
> > Fly a Tiger and then come back and tell me it handles like a Cessna.
> >
> >
> > "Satellite" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Sorry for my comment, but can't hold back:
> > > How do you come up with a ridiculous price like that.
> > > >>> Your plane is an old pile of junk.<<<
> > > Compare it to a 1997 to 1999 Cessna 172!
> > > They are available from $75000 and up...
> > > Look for yourself www.aso.com
> > > And you get recent avionics, lower time,
> > > nice paint, nice interior, lower insurance,
> > > ad a new engine and you are set...
> > > Your plane... $76000...Ha, what a joke...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Flynn" > wrote in message
> > > news:YpN1b.235442$o%2.106915@sccrnsc02...
> > > > Well I've taken the new plane plunge and put a deposit down on a new
> SR22
> > > > for delivery in late Sept. My wife says I can't have 2 airplanes so
> the
> > > > Tiger's for sale.
> > > >
> > > > Latest info is at
> > > > http://www.ipilot.com/classifieds/ad.aspx?pid=4211&cid=-1&fuid=0
> > > > I'm going to take some new pic's today and post them there. Contact
> info
> if
> > > > interested is also at the above site.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Flynn
> > > > Sammamish, WA
> > > > 79 Tiger N4543A KRNT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

[Satellite]

$49500 is not the original asking price of $76000.



"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Flynn" wrote:
> > Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
>
> What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
> Unbelievable!!!
> :^)
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>
>
>

[Flynn]

Uh....who said anything about selling it for $49,500? Go back to sleep.

"Satellite" > wrote in message
om...
> $49500 is not the original asking price of $76000.
>
>
>
> "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Flynn" wrote:
> > > Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
> >
> > What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
> > Unbelievable!!!
> > :^)
> >
> > --
> > Dan
> > C172RG at BFM
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Juan E Jimenez]

Congratulations!!!!

"Flynn" > wrote in message
t...
> Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.

[Satellite]

Well, there are more idiots than I thought.

"Flynn" > wrote in message
news:HlG7b.307842$Oz4.99744@rwcrnsc54...
> Uh....who said anything about selling it for $49,500? Go back to sleep.
>
> "Satellite" > wrote in message
> om...
> > $49500 is not the original asking price of $76000.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Flynn" wrote:
> > > > Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
> > >
> > > What!?!? You sold that over-aged "joke" for the asking price?
> > > Unbelievable!!!
> > > :^)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan
> > > C172RG at BFM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[David Megginson]

"Satellite" > writes:

> Well, there are more idiots than I thought.

Formosa's Law suggests that we should let this thread rest and move on
to something else.


All the best,


David

[Juan E Jimenez]

No, Formosa's Law is the proof for the equation that says that a Filipino
contortionist is really nothing more than a Manila folder... I think you
mean The Usenet Karma Law -- Dead horse threads not allowed to die always
come back to hoof your behind. :)

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Satellite" > writes:
>
> > Well, there are more idiots than I thought.
>
> Formosa's Law suggests that we should let this thread rest and move on
> to something else.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

[Tom S.]

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Satellite" > writes:
>
> > Well, there are more idiots than I thought.
>
> Formosa's Law suggests that we should let this thread rest and move on
> to something else.
>
Better yet, PLONK "Satellite".

[Tom S.]

"Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
news:AVI7b.406415$YN5.273753@sccrnsc01...
> No, Formosa's Law is the proof for the equation that says that a Filipino
> contortionist is really nothing more than a Manila folder... I think you
> mean The Usenet Karma Law -- Dead horse threads not allowed to die always
> come back to hoof your behind. :)
>
I had a friend who was into bestiality, sadism and necrophilia, but he
discovered he was just beating a dead horse.

[Dan Luke]

"Satellite" wrote:
> Well, there are more idiots than I thought.

You need to start counting when you get out of bed.

[Flynn]

groan

"Tom S." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
> news:AVI7b.406415$YN5.273753@sccrnsc01...
> > No, Formosa's Law is the proof for the equation that says that a
Filipino
> > contortionist is really nothing more than a Manila folder... I think you
> > mean The Usenet Karma Law -- Dead horse threads not allowed to die
always
> > come back to hoof your behind. :)
> >
> I had a friend who was into bestiality, sadism and necrophilia, but he
> discovered he was just beating a dead horse.
>
>

[Flynn]

Thanks Juan! While the market may not reward with the appreciation of
previous years, for well-priced aircraft in good shape there's still a
market. And that's good for all of us......

"Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
news:AZG7b.306624$cF.93388@rwcrnsc53...
> Congratulations!!!!
>
> "Flynn" > wrote in message
> t...
> > Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
>
>

[Roger Tracy]

Glad you got it sold. Good Tigers still go fairly quick. I didn't figure
yours would be on the market long.

Roger Tracy


"Flynn" > wrote in message
t...
> Sold the Tiger today. Interest was very high so it was priced well.
>
> "Roger Tracy" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Not for something I'd want. It seems like every time I read an article
> about
> > some older plane, they have really low values they're quoting. It's like
> > they
> > went and dug out their 5 - 10 yr old copy of Aviation Consumer.
> >
> > What's the point if you find a bargain price and have to pay $20k to get
> it
> > up to snuff?
> >
> > "Mike Noel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Does anyone here think that $49,500 is
> > > a realistic price?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>