How airplanes are made.

[Lou]

Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
build a plane.
Lou

[J.Kahn]

Lou wrote:
> Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
> Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
> It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
> being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
> and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
> been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
> build a plane.
> Lou
>

I know several people who've gone to work at Diamond in London, Ontario
and moved on after a while. It has a rep as a tough place to work with
a fairly high turnover. They push their engineering staff really hard.
50-60 hour weeks with no overtime during on the Djet development program.

On the other hand there is a great employee flying club where you can
rent the company products cheap.

John

[Roger[_4_]]

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:31:45 -0500, "J.Kahn"
> wrote:

>Lou wrote:
>> Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
>> Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
>> It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
>> being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
>> and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
>> been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
>> build a plane.
>> Lou
>>
>
>I know several people who've gone to work at Diamond in London, Ontario
>and moved on after a while. It has a rep as a tough place to work with
>a fairly high turnover. They push their engineering staff really hard.
> 50-60 hour weeks with no overtime during on the Djet development program.
>
Typically, degreed positions don't pay overtime.
I worked for 26 years in instrumentation, quite, earned a Bachelors
degree in Computer Science and was never paid overtime again. OTOH the
wages were supposed to make up for it.

At the end of nearly 7 years I retired. The company paid me for about
90 days of unused vacation. During those 7 years a typical week was
about 60 hours and I took a total of 3 days off except for my last
work week which was spent at Oshkosh, so I retired during the middle
of the 96 fly-in. (working on computers in the homebuilders center)

>On the other hand there is a great employee flying club where you can
>rent the company products cheap.

>
>John
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[stol]

On Feb 7, 3:47 pm, "Lou" > wrote:
> Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
> Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
> It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
> being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
> and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
> been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
> build a plane.
> Lou

Must have been the "quick build option.. <G>

[J.Kahn]

Roger wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:31:45 -0500, "J.Kahn"
> > wrote:
>
>> Lou wrote:
>>> Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
>>> Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
>>> It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
>>> being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
>>> and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
>>> been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
>>> build a plane.
>>> Lou
>>>
>> I know several people who've gone to work at Diamond in London, Ontario
>> and moved on after a while. It has a rep as a tough place to work with
>> a fairly high turnover. They push their engineering staff really hard.
>> 50-60 hour weeks with no overtime during on the Djet development program.
>>
> Typically, degreed positions don't pay overtime.
> I worked for 26 years in instrumentation, quite, earned a Bachelors
> degree in Computer Science and was never paid overtime again. OTOH the
> wages were supposed to make up for it.
>
> At the end of nearly 7 years I retired. The company paid me for about
> 90 days of unused vacation. During those 7 years a typical week was
> about 60 hours and I took a total of 3 days off except for my last
> work week which was spent at Oshkosh, so I retired during the middle
> of the 96 fly-in. (working on computers in the homebuilders center)
>
>> On the other hand there is a great employee flying club where you can
>> rent the company products cheap.
>
>> John
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com

I think that tends to be a smaller company thing. The engineers at my
employer, the leading regional jet manufacturer, get OT unless they are
management (who get annual bonuses).

John

[Roger[_4_]]

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:48:37 -0500, "J.Kahn"
> wrote:

>
>> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:31:45 -0500, "J.Kahn"
For some strange reason I was unable to quote from your post, but...

I worked for a large multi-national corporation with sites in at least
5 countries. I'd guess we had between 500 and 700 engineers. They pay
hourly overtime, but not salary.

As they used to say in the new employee orientation. "We're known as a
high pressure work place. Those of you who had been planning on IPR
might want to reconsider you choice of work place.". IPR = "In Plant
Retirement".<:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Denny]

On Feb 8, 10:12 am, "stol" > wrote:
> On Feb 7, 3:47 pm, "Lou" > wrote:
> Must have been the "quick build option.. <G>

"How It's Made" is so superficial that if they showed a segment on how
'they' make a program it would be 3 milliseconds long...

denny

[Lou]

>
> "How It's Made" is so superficial that if they showed a segment on how
> 'they' make a program it would be 3 milliseconds long...
>
> denny

Well, I realize in your eyes it's not gilmore girls, but to me it
beats the hell
out of most everything else on tv.
Lou

[Denny]

On Feb 9, 8:23 am, "Lou" > wrote:
> > "How It's Made" is so superficial that if they showed a segment on how
> > 'they' make a program it would be 3 milliseconds long...
>
> > denny
>
> Well, I realize in your eyes it's not gilmore girls, but to me it
> beats the hell
> out of most everything else on tv.
> Lou

Who/what the hell are "Gilmore Girls"?
denny

[Montblack]

("Lou" wrote)
> Well, I realize in your eyes it's not gilmore girls, but to me it beats
> the hell out of most everything else on tv.


I'd watch 'How Gilmore Girls Are Made.'


Montblack :-)
"I like to watch." - C. G.

[Montblack]

("Denny" wrote)
> Who/what the hell are "Gilmore Girls"?


http://www.gilmoregirls.org/images/group/12.jpg
TV show on the WB about a mother and a daughter raising each other, in a
small town - the daughter being the adult of the two.

http://www.gilmoregirls.org/images/group/66.jpg
Another pic

http://www.gilmoregirls.org/group.html
The show's rapid-fire dialogue, mostly between mom and daughter, became its
trademark.

http://www.gilmoregirls.org/images/group/159.jpg
TV Guide: The Best Show You're Not Watching


Montblack

[Errol Groff]

On 7 Feb 2007 14:47:50 -0800, "Lou" > wrote:

>Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
>Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
>It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
>being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
>and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
>been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
>build a plane.
> Lou

Well, it's not on TV but pictures of my visit to Aviat Aviation (home
of the Husky and Pitts) in AFton Wyoming last summer are at:

http://neme-s.org/Western_Trip_2006/Aviat_Aviation/Aviat_Aviation.htm

Errol Groff
EAA 60159

[[email protected]]

On Feb 7, 7:31 pm, "J.Kahn" > wrote:
> Lou wrote:
> > Has anyone seen the show "How It's Made"? It's on the Discovery
> > Channel. They had a segment on Diamond Aircraft.
> > It was quite interesting to show the fiberglass and carbon sections
> > being made and then assembled. They also showed the engine install
> > and some avionics. Unfortunatly it was extremly short. Now I know I've
> > been doing it wrong. They just proved it only takes about 8 minutes to
> > build a plane.
> > Lou
>
> I know several people who've gone to work at Diamond in London, Ontario
> and moved on after a while. It has a rep as a tough place to work with
> a fairly high turnover. They push their engineering staff really hard.
> 50-60 hour weeks with no overtime during on the Djet development program.
>
> On the other hand there is a great employee flying club where you can
> rent the company products cheap.
>
> John

John,

I think that is pretty endemic in the GA industry. Lower pay than
other industries (including commercial and military aircraft/avionics
companies) and longer hours. Margins are pretty thin in GA, and
companies also tend to take advantage of individuals who are
enthusiastic about aviation and being part of something that they
think is cool. Eventually, those people burn out and lose that
enthusiasm. After that, they realize that they can do better
financially and work-life balance-wise doing something else, so they
move on...

Dean

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Feb 9, 4:22 am, "Denny" > wrote:
> "How It's Made" is so superficial that if they showed a segment on how
> 'they' make a program it would be 3 milliseconds long...

I disagree, at least as regards this episode. I thought they covered
the basic processes of composite aircraft manufacturing very well,
considering the inherent limitations of the medium. I learned a bunch
of neat shmoo and squeegee techniques from watching, and I've been
doing it for a while.

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

[Wayne Paul]

"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Feb 9, 4:22 am, "Denny" > wrote:
>> "How It's Made" is so superficial that if they showed a segment on how
>> 'they' make a program it would be 3 milliseconds long...
>
> I disagree, at least as regards this episode. I thought they covered
> the basic processes of composite aircraft manufacturing very well,
> considering the inherent limitations of the medium. I learned a bunch
> of neat shmoo and squeegee techniques from watching, and I've been
> doing it for a while.
>
> Bob K.
> http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24
>

Bob,

This is off the subject; however, I was looking at your recent HP-24 updates
and want to complement you of the "gear overcenter + uplock" system. It is
a major improvement to Schreder's original design. Are you also planning to
use the incorporate your gas-spring kit in the HP-24?
(http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Gear_System/18-1110-A.pdf)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Feb 10, 5:18 am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:

> This is off the subject; however, I was looking at your recent HP-24 updates
> and want to complement you of the "gear overcenter + uplock" system. It is
> a major improvement to Schreder's original design. Are you also planning to
> use the incorporate your gas-spring kit in the HP-24?
> (http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Gear_System/18-1110-A.pdf)
>
> Wayne
> HP-14 "6F"http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

Thanks! I'm not sure I consider it a major improvement over the
Schreder original, since it does add a few more parts to break. But I
do think it's a tradeoff more in line with what modern pilots expect
and demand.

Yes, I'll be incorporating the gas spring I developed for the HP-18,
pretty much intact. The only difference is that I'll be putting it in
the left side gear well, since the retract drive and other bits are in
the way on the right.

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

[Wayne Paul]

"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Feb 10, 5:18 am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
>
>> This is off the subject; however, I was looking at your recent HP-24
>> updates
>> and want to complement you of the "gear overcenter + uplock" system. It
>> is
>> a major improvement to Schreder's original design. Are you also planning
>> to
>> use the incorporate your gas-spring kit in the HP-24?
>> (http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Gear_System/18-1110-A.pdf)
>>
>> Wayne
>> HP-14 "6F"http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder
>
> Thanks! I'm not sure I consider it a major improvement over the
> Schreder original, since it does add a few more parts to break. But I
> do think it's a tradeoff more in line with what modern pilots expect
> and demand.
>
> Yes, I'll be incorporating the gas spring I developed for the HP-18,
> pretty much intact. The only difference is that I'll be putting it in
> the left side gear well, since the retract drive and other bits are in
> the way on the right.

The gas spring is on the port (left) side of my HP-14 for the same reason.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Gear_System/HP-14_Gas_Spring.htm
I have found that this system opporates smoother than any of the factory
built sailplanes (ASW-27, ASW-20, LS-6, 1-35) flying out of Nampa.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com