Genesis 2 For Sale

[Steve Davis]

Mfg. 2000, s/n 2023, Acrylic Paint, Carbon elevator

with stiffened tail allows 150kts Vne, Cleveland
Wheel & Brake, Huge cockpit for big and tall pilots,

Graphlite carbon fiber spar is extremely strong and

durable, dual battery holder, Winter ASI, COBRA Trailer,
NDH. Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
CO
303-438-6597

[Peter F]

At 02:42 08 February 2007, Steve Davis wrote:
> Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
>
>

That would be why there was so many flying at the last
Std Class World Champs then..

And why there was so many flying at the Std Class Worlds
when the original Discus was the class of the field.

[Jack[_1_]]

Peter F wrote:
> At 02:42 08 February 2007, Steve Davis wrote:
>> Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
>
> That would be why there was so many flying at the last
> Std Class World Champs then..
>
> And why there was so many flying at the Std Class Worlds
> when the original Discus was the class of the field.



41 Discus 2 A & B in the US

6 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida


23 Genesis II in the US

2 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida


That's a reasonable representation.

Those old guys know how to get the most for their money. ;)



Jack

[[email protected]]

Peter,

Well, it's winter, I'll bite.

Speaking of the Worlds, Clem Bowman was getting ready to take one to
the Worlds - unfortunately that never happened.

I'll defer to the opinions of Karl Striedieck, Bill Bartell, JJ
Sinclair, David Mercer, Bob Salvo and Ron Gaynier. I believe all have
won contest days with the ship.

Dick Johnson's flight test (online at ssa.org, I believe) has a nice
polar and a performance evaluation if you are interested. He even has
overlay comparisons with a Discus to make it easy.


Ever flown one?

Mike Brooks

[Peter F]

At 10:30 08 February 2007, Jack wrote:
>41 Discus 2 A & B in the US
>
> 6 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport,
>Florida
>
>
>23 Genesis II in the US
>
> 2 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport,
>Florida
>
>
>That's a reasonable representation.
>
>Those old guys know how to get the most for their money.
>;)
>
>
>
>Jack

So there are twice as many D2s as Genesis 2s in the
US, but three times as many flew at the above contest.
Not sure if you're arguing for or against the G2

[Tony Verhulst]

Jack wrote:
> Peter F wrote:
>> At 02:42 08 February 2007, Steve Davis wrote:
>>> Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
>>
>> That would be why there was so many flying at the last
>> Std Class World Champs then..
>
> 41 Discus 2 A & B in the US
>
> 6 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida
>
> 23 Genesis II in the US
>
> 2 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida
>
> That's a reasonable representation.

Sure, but the real question is (was) - if the Genesis 2 is as good as a
Discus 2, why aren't there more G2's?

Tony V.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 8, 8:12 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> Jack wrote:
> > Peter F wrote:
> >> At 02:42 08 February 2007, Steve Davis wrote:
> >>> Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
>
> >> That would be why there was so many flying at the last
> >> Std Class World Champs then..
>
> > 41 Discus 2 A & B in the US
>
> > 6 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida
>
> > 23 Genesis II in the US
>
> > 2 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport, Florida
>
> > That's a reasonable representation.
>
> Sure, but the real question is (was) - if the Genesis 2 is as good as a
> Discus 2, why aren't there more G2's?
>
> Tony V.

Good question. I think there are a lot of variables involved here.
For one, the G2 is an unorthodox design, and I think we've seen that
in many different aircraft that tends to lead to low production
numbers. Beech Starship comes to mind.

Clem Bowman's accident certainly must have had some effect on orders.
We will never know what would have happened had he continued his
successful racing career in the G2.

Otherwise - there are plenty of designs that were successful
sailplanes but had limited production runs. How about the Sisu? The
number of units produced is not necessarily a good metric of the
absolute value of a glider.

The G2 can be debated in a number of ways. Some people just don't
like they way they look - fair enough. That's personal taste. But if
you have a look at the numbers (and maybe even fly one), I think the
reason for the low production number lies outside the performance
realm and gets into the area of manufacturing issues. My hat is off to
the people that worked hard to produce them.

Mike Brooks

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 8, 3:50 am, wrote:

> Ever flown one?

It seems a bit of a stretch to claim the Genesis is as good as the
Discus 2. I raced a lot with a local Genesis pilot and you couldn't
convince me, or him, that was true.

Contest results are not always a good indication of glider performance
though. A tiny perceived difference in performance will have all the
top pilots flying one or two types and they will win. If you put that
group of pilots in a different glider type they would still win.

I flew the prototype Genesis at Uvalde, liked it, but didn't buy one.

Andy

[[email protected]]

On Feb 8, 9:58 am, "Andy" > wrote:
> On Feb 8, 3:50 am, wrote:
>
> > Ever flown one?
>
> It seems a bit of a stretch to claim the Genesis is as good as the
> Discus 2. I raced a lot with a local Genesis pilot and you couldn't
> convince me, or him, that was true.
>
> Contest results are not always a good indication of glider performance
> though. A tiny perceived difference in performance will have all the
> top pilots flying one or two types and they will win. If you put that
> group of pilots in a different glider type they would still win.
>
> I flew the prototype Genesis at Uvalde, liked it, but didn't buy one.
>
> Andy

Maybe. What were your experiences, then? Were you ahead in the high-
speed cruise, the climb, or both? Ballasted or dry?

Agreed that if you put top pilots in a different machine, they'll
still win. We're talking a few percent one way or the other here. In
my case at least, the ship is not the limiting factor. It's something
to talk about until the season starts up, though....

Mike

[Steve Davis]

The Genesis 2 continued in production thru 2000 and
there may have
been one or two built in early 2001. If you look at
the US stock market
performance, most major companies peaked in early
2000 followed by
steady stock price declines through 2001. Stock prices
may have started
to rebound in late 2001; we'll never know because 9/11,
an anthrax
scare, smallpox worries and the crash of an Airbus
in New York caused a
multi-trillion dollar decline in travel and tourism
which reverberated
throughout the economy. This extended what would have
been a
relatively mild economic downturn into a mild downturn
that lasted a
very long time. I say it was mild because 6% was considered
full
employment until the mid eighties. Now, 6% unemployment
is
considered a recession in America. (In Europe, 6%
unemployment would
be called 'unprecedented prosperity a major economic
boom and proof
positive that socialism, high taxes and unrestricted
immigration works,'
but they'll never see a 6% unemployment rate, at least
not in western
Europe.) :-)
Anyway, people in America don't buy gliders if they
don't have a fair
amount of disposable income and it's hard to get a
lot of that when the
price of your stock went from eighty to ten. Production
of the Genesis
stopped, Rolladin-Schneider went belly up, more used
gliders were on
the market and most glider manufacturers went thru
some very hard
times. DG and Schemp-Hirth probably stayed in business
because of
deep pockets by owners - going out of business in Germany
can be more
expensive than staying in business - and purchases
by European gliding
clubs, not because of individual buyers.

Also, Clem Bowmans' accident had a very big effect.
There were a lot of
rumors that the Genesis didn't have automatic control
connections- it
does- and since it looks like a flying wing it should
somehow be able to
fly without an elevator - it won't. Had he continued
racing the Genesis 2
it probably would have been much more successful.





At 14:48 08 February 2007, wrote:
>On Feb 8, 8:12 am, Tony Verhulst wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>> > Peter F wrote:
>> >> At 02:42 08 February 2007, Steve Davis wrote:
>> >>> Discus 2 performance at a fraction of the cost.
>>
>> >> That would be why there was so many flying at the
>>>>last
>> >> Std Class World Champs then..
>>
>> > 41 Discus 2 A & B in the US
>>
>> > 6 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport,
>>>Florida
>>
>> > 23 Genesis II in the US
>>
>> > 2 flew in 2006 Senior Contest, Seminole Lake Gliderport,
>>>Florida
>>
>> > That's a reasonable representation.
>>
>> Sure, but the real question is (was) - if the Genesis
>>2 is as good as a
>> Discus 2, why aren't there more G2's?
>>
>> Tony V.
>
> Good question. I think there are a lot of variables
>involved here.
>For one, the G2 is an unorthodox design, and I think
>we've seen that
>in many different aircraft that tends to lead to low
>production
>numbers. Beech Starship comes to mind.
>
> Clem Bowman's accident certainly must have had some
>effect on
orders.
>We will never know what would have happened had he
>continued his
>successful racing career in the G2.
>
> Otherwise - there are plenty of designs that were
>successful
>sailplanes but had limited production runs. How about
>the Sisu? The
>number of units produced is not necessarily a good
>metric of the
>absolute value of a glider.
>
> The G2 can be debated in a number of ways. Some people
>just don't
>like they way they look - fair enough. That's personal
>taste. But if
>you have a look at the numbers (and maybe even fly
>one), I think the
>reason for the low production number lies outside the
>performance
>realm and gets into the area of manufacturing issues.
>My hat is off to
>the people that worked hard to produce them.
>
>Mike Brooks
>
>
>
>