An Open Apology to R.A.P.

[Casey Wilson]

I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
out and continue to survive, even thrive.

I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.

With apologies and regrets,

Casey Wilson
PP ASEL
Freelance Writer
and Photographer

P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
qualified to
issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
aircraft.

[Steve Foley[_2_]]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02...
> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no
> longer restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better
> judgement.

No apology required. There's very little left here worth reading anyway.

[Peter R.]

On 2/10/2007 11:38:49 PM, "Casey Wilson" wrote:

> when I have
> something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
> that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> out and continue to survive, even thrive.

Get yourself a newsreader that has powerful filtering, such as one that
deletes author and any posts with that author in the reference field (the
branch of a thread spawned by the author) and you will NEVER again see said
author or replies to it.

I have moved onto NewsMan Pro, which does this perfectly but is a payware
product sure to turn off many. Others here attest to Outlook Express'
advanced filtering, although the fact that OE renders HTML should give one
pause. In any case, you owe it to yourself if you desire to forever be
liberated.

FWIW...

--
Peter

[Jack Allison]

> With apologies and regrets,

No apology necessary Casey. I hope you reconsider dropping off as I've
always enjoyed reading your posts. Still, if enough is enough for you
then here's to wishing you blue skies and a nice tailwind. Keep flying
and writing.

While it can be hard to ignore the troll fodder of which you speak, a
simple press of the 'k' key in Thunderbird takes care of such threads
for me. Now, if I could just do so for sub-threads, that would be even
better.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jim Logajan]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote:
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out
> what kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my
> real flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason
> alone, I am going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is
> that Msxmanic will undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having
> won.

Rats.

I hope to get a pilot certificate soon and would appreciate it if not all
the qualified people not be run off this group. I don't claim to speak for
others in my situation, but I'd hazard a guess I'm not alone in that worry.

[Montblack]

("Casey Wilson" wrote)
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the posts
> on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what kind of
> spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real flying
> colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am going
> to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> With apologies and regrets,


I don't get the swan dive?

I really don't.


Montblack
I have arrow keys and a mouse that scrolls...

[d&tm]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02...
> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no
longer
> restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard
and,
> in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to
be
> excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as
well.
> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned
my
> airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I
have
> something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls
me
> that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic
will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> With apologies and regrets,
>
This is a sad attitude to take. I was beginning to think this whole anti
mxmanic is more about ego than anything else. The above post convinces me.
No one has to earn a right to comment on anything , especially on an
internet newsgroup. and as for "treasured status" that smacks of snobbery.
Is status really so important to you? is that why you fly? . Most people
that fly do so because they find it an incredibly rewarding experience. The
cost is such that most of us wouldnt be able to justify it if it wasnt. But
most of us ( I hope) realise that flying a light airplane is not that big a
deal if you are prepared to put in a lot of hardwork and money. Most
ordinary people could do it if they wished to ( at the risk of hurting your
ego I think most people dont care to ) . Maybe even mxmanic could, or
perhaps he is one of the minority who couldnt, it doesnt really matter.
What is abundantly clear is that mxmanic has an insatiable interest in
aviation, so why shouldnt he use this newsgroup? No one is obliged to answer
him. Nobody should accept blindly what he ( or you or me or anyone else )
says about flying. I dont know this guy at all but did you ever wonder
why somebody would spend most of their spare time on a computer simulating
flying or writing to this newsgroup?. What if you were to find he had a
debilitating illness, perhaps even a terminal one that prevented him leading
a normal life, or prevents him from actually flying a plane for real. .
Would you feel a bit different. a bit ashamed perhaps?

I like to lurk around the space groups and occaionally ask questions and
even dare to have the temerity to try to answer some of them. Should I
refrain from doing this because I am not an astronaut? or an astrophysicist?

terry
ppl downunder

[Dave Doe]

In article <s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02>, says...
> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
> restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
> in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
> excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
> airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
> something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
> that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> With apologies and regrets,
>
> Casey Wilson
> PP ASEL
> Freelance Writer
> and Photographer
>
> P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
> qualified to
> issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
> aircraft.

Good bye.

--
Duncan

[Jay Honeck]

> For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.

For those who have seen the recent movie, "Letters from Iwo Jima",
this post is the equivalent of the Japanese soldiers huddling in a
tunnel and blowing themselves up, rather than dying in combat.
Pathetic, really.

I hope this is some sort of a Casey-spoof, because -- if not -- it's
about the dumbest thing I've ever seen written here.

And I've seen a LOT of dumb things here.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Casey Wilson wrote:

> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.

No need for that. Just killfile him as many of us have done and then
you only have to see him when some other idiot replies to his post. Any
by killfiling him it automatically removes you from the idiot category! :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Dave Doe wrote:

> In article <s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02>, says...
>
>> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
>>troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
>>restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
>> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
>>in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
>>excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
>> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
>>way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
>>both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
>>airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
>>something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
>>that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
>>out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>>
>> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
>>posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
>>kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
>>flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
>>going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
>>undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>>
>>With apologies and regrets,
>>
>>Casey Wilson
>>PP ASEL
>>Freelance Writer
>> and Photographer
>>
>>P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
>>qualified to
>>issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
>>aircraft.
>
>
> Good bye.
>

and please follow him.

[The Old Bloke[_3_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> For that reason and that reason alone, I am
>> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic
>> will
>> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> For those who have seen the recent movie, "Letters from Iwo Jima",
> this post is the equivalent of the Japanese soldiers huddling in a
> tunnel and blowing themselves up, rather than dying in combat.
> Pathetic, really.
>
> I hope this is some sort of a Casey-spoof, because -- if not -- it's
> about the dumbest thing I've ever seen written here.
>
> And I've seen a LOT of dumb things here.
>
> :-(
I wouldn't be so damning. But it is so easy to filter what you see, and
even easier to see all, but ignore those you don't agree with.

Casey has a problem bigger than Msxmanic. To blame a *withdrawal due to one
poster* is bizarre.

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Peter R. > posted:
>
> I have moved onto NewsMan Pro, which does this perfectly but is a
> payware product sure to turn off many. Others here attest to Outlook
> Express' advanced filtering, although the fact that OE renders HTML
> should give one pause.
>
OE renders HTML if the user retains that parameter (it is the default
setting). If set to "plain text", HTML is eliminated.

Neil

[Neil Gould]

Recently, d&tm > posted:
>
> I like to lurk around the space groups and occaionally ask questions
> and even dare to have the temerity to try to answer some of them.
> Should I refrain from doing this because I am not an astronaut? or an
> astrophysicist?
>
I would think it wise to refrain from arguing with astrophysicists or
astronauts about their responses to your posts. It would be considerate to
other readers not to pose as having the credentials of either of those
professions.

Neil

[Jake Brodsky]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> Rats.
>
> I hope to get a pilot certificate soon and would appreciate it if not all
> the qualified people not be run off this group. I don't claim to speak for
> others in my situation, but I'd hazard a guess I'm not alone in that worry.

Some of us just lurk most of the time. I've been flying for 19 years,
though I don't have that many hours in my logbooks. I'm a weekend pilot
and I plan my flying accordingly. There are quite a few with more
experience than I have, and faster typing fingers too. I'll chime in if
I see someone steering a newbie in a clearly wrong direction.

However, I'm also selective with the threads I read. Most of them are
repetitive. After a while, you can just tell where threads are going...

Jake Brodsky
PP ASEL IA
Cessna Cardinal N30946 @ FME

[Montblack]

("Jake Brodsky" wrote)
> Cessna Cardinal N30946 @ FME


http://www.airnav.com/airport/KFME
(FME) Tipton Airport
Fort Meade (Odenton), Maryland, USA

Washington, DC and Baltimore, MD are less than 40 miles apart. FME (Fort
Meade) is on a line between those two cities.


Montblack :-)

[Morgans]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote

> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no
> longer restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better
> judgement.

I think your warnings added onto his posts are just what is needed.

Stick around, and don't change a thing.

I am hopeful that the tide is turning.
--
Jim in NC

[Darkwing]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02...
> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no
> longer restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better
> judgement.
> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard
> and, in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I
> consider to be excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some
> of you as well.
> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned
> my airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I
> have something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply
> galls me that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day
> in and day out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic
> will undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> With apologies and regrets,
>
> Casey Wilson
> PP ASEL
> Freelance Writer
> and Photographer
>
> P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
> qualified to
> issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
> aircraft.
>
>

Unfortunately Captain Jackass aka Msxmanic has basically ruined this
newsgroup which I have read and occasionally posted on for the last three
years. I constantly have to make sure I'm not reading a response from the
Sim Pilot instead of an actual response from a REAL pilot. He sucks, I am
sick of reading his stupid crap (more like trudging through it) and I don't
think you need to apologize for anything!! I think Msxmanic should apologize
to all of us and cease posting immediately but I'm sure that won't happen.
He is a pompous ass jerk and is nothing more than a troll who comes here
just **** people off and pretend to know something about flying a REAL
plane.

------------------------------------
DW a real pilot with a $6000 piece of green plastic with the Wright Brothers
on it who worked hard to get his license and fulfilled his lifelong dream by
getting it.

[Kev]

On Feb 11, 9:24 am, "Neil Gould" > wrote:
> Recently, d&tm > posted:
>
> > I like to lurk around the space groups and occaionally ask questions
> > and even dare to have the temerity to try to answer some of them.
> > Should I refrain from doing this because I am not an astronaut? or an
> > astrophysicist?
>
> I would think it wise to refrain from arguing with astrophysicists or
> astronauts about their responses to your posts. It would be considerate to
> other readers not to pose as having the credentials of either of those
> professions.

Well, it depends on whether the answer is clear cut or not. And even
then, many times what is accepted as truth one decade, isn't the
next. Take Pluto ;-)

This same situation could apply to driving a car too, of course, or
many other activities. Yet you often see people with little or no
experience posting strong opinions.

A humorous point is that pilots virtually never agree exactly on
anything, especially on interpreting regulations. The FAA doesn't
help in that regard. So it's easy to see how someone could question
every answer, when even pilots will argue amongst themselves.

Cheers, Kev

[tony roberts]

> He sucks, I am sick of reading his stupid crap (more like trudging through it) and I don't
> think you need to apologize for anything!!

His crap doesn't bother me.
The people who feed his crap are slightly irritating.
The people who defend his crap are more irritating.

The problems with this group are much more than one very talented troll
- and every long thread of his is testimony to just how talented he is
at his chosen "pastime"

Just wait for the pendulum to swing back - meanwhile, it's not the only
aviation group out there.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
says...
> Dave Doe wrote:
>
> > In article <s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02>, says...
> >
> >> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> >>troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
> >>restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> >> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
> >>in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
> >>excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
> >> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> >>way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> >>both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
> >>airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
> >>something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
> >>that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> >>out and continue to survive, even thrive.
> >>
> >> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> >>posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> >>kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> >>flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> >>going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> >>undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
> >>
> >>With apologies and regrets,
> >>
> >>Casey Wilson
> >>PP ASEL
> >>Freelance Writer
> >> and Photographer
> >>
> >>P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
> >>qualified to
> >>issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
> >>aircraft.
> >
> >
> > Good bye.
> >
>
> and please follow him.

LOL - still here Matt - touchy touchy. People like Mxsmanic don't
bother me, if they did, I'd bozo bin them. I wouldn't get in a huff and
leave the group! LOL It's a sad, almost pathetic, reaction.

--
Duncan

[Matt Whiting]

Dave Doe wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>Dave Doe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02>, says...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
>>>>troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
>>>>restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
>>>> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
>>>>in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
>>>>excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
>>>> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
>>>>way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
>>>>both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
>>>>airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
>>>>something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
>>>>that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
>>>>out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>>>>
>>>> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
>>>>posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
>>>>kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
>>>>flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
>>>>going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
>>>>undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>>>>
>>>>With apologies and regrets,
>>>>
>>>>Casey Wilson
>>>>PP ASEL
>>>>Freelance Writer
>>>> and Photographer
>>>>
>>>>P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
>>>>qualified to
>>>>issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
>>>>aircraft.
>>>
>>>
>>>Good bye.
>>>
>>
>>and please follow him.
>
>
> LOL - still here Matt - touchy touchy. People like Mxsmanic don't
> bother me, if they did, I'd bozo bin them. I wouldn't get in a huff and
> leave the group! LOL It's a sad, almost pathetic, reaction.
>

Yes, almost as pathetic as your response to his response.

Much better to suggest a reasonably solution (kill filter) than to pile on.

Matt

[Bladerunner]

On Feb 11, 1:26 pm, tony roberts > wrote:
> > He sucks, I am sick of reading his stupid crap (more like trudging through it) and I don't
> > think you need to apologize for anything!!
>
> His crap doesn't bother me.
> The people who feed his crap are slightly irritating.
> The people who defend his crap are more irritating.
>
> The problems with this group are much more than one very talented troll
> - and every long thread of his is testimony to just how talented he is
> at his chosen "pastime"
>
> Just wait for the pendulum to swing back - meanwhile, it's not the only
> aviation group out there.
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Cessna 172H C-GICE

Casey, I'm with you , Happy flying all, I'll use only the AOPA
forums from now on.I'm voting with my keyboard.

Stay Safe

Cheers, N

[buttman]

On Feb 10, 8:38 pm, "Casey Wilson" > wrote:
> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
> restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
> in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
> excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
> airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
> something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
> that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
> undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> With apologies and regrets,
>
> Casey Wilson
> PP ASEL
> Freelance Writer
> and Photographer
>
> P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
> qualified to
> issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
> aircraft.

I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
trying to discuss. I don't even want to THINK of what kind of
monumental collective butthurt will arise from this group if even just
ONE real troll came here.

[Dave[_5_]]

On Feb 11, 5:34 am, "d&tm" > wrote:
> "Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
>
> news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02...
>
>
>
> > I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
> > troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no
> longer
> > restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> > It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard
> and,
> > in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to
> be
> > excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as
> well.
> > I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
> > way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
> > both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned
> my
> > airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I
> have
> > something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls
> me
> > that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
> > out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> > I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> > posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> > kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> > flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
> > going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic
> will
> > undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
> > With apologies and regrets,
>
> This is a sad attitude to take. I was beginning to think this whole anti
> mxmanic is more about ego than anything else. The above post convinces me.
> No one has to earn a right to comment on anything , especially on an
> internet newsgroup. and as for "treasured status" that smacks of snobbery.
> Is status really so important to you? is that why you fly? . Most people
> that fly do so because they find it an incredibly rewarding experience. The
> cost is such that most of us wouldnt be able to justify it if it wasnt. But
> most of us ( I hope) realise that flying a light airplane is not that big a
> deal if you are prepared to put in a lot of hardwork and money. Most
> ordinary people could do it if they wished to ( at the risk of hurting your
> ego I think most people dont care to ) . Maybe even mxmanic could, or
> perhaps he is one of the minority who couldnt, it doesnt really matter.
> What is abundantly clear is that mxmanic has an insatiable interest in
> aviation, so why shouldnt he use this newsgroup? No one is obliged to answer
> him. Nobody should accept blindly what he ( or you or me or anyone else )
> says about flying. I dont know this guy at all but did you ever wonder
> why somebody would spend most of their spare time on a computer simulating
> flying or writing to this newsgroup?. What if you were to find he had a
> debilitating illness, perhaps even a terminal one that prevented him leading
> a normal life, or prevents him from actually flying a plane for real. .
> Would you feel a bit different. a bit ashamed perhaps?
>
> I like to lurk around the space groups and occaionally ask questions and
> even dare to have the temerity to try to answer some of them. Should I
> refrain from doing this because I am not an astronaut? or an astrophysicist?
>
> terry
> ppl downunder- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well stated. Beats hell out of me why anyone would get upset over
statements made by a stranger on a public forum. It's even more
presumptious of them to think that they are entitled to decide who can
or cannot make use of this means of communication...
So far as I am concerened, everything here is "For What It's Worth" -
and I am entitled to decide the merits thereof on a case-by-case
basis. Those that I don't like or that don't interest me, I just skip
over. What could be easier than that?

David Johnson

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
says...
> Dave Doe wrote:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >
> >>Dave Doe wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02>, says...
<snip>
> >>>>
> >>>>P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
> >>>>qualified to
> >>>>issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
> >>>>aircraft.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Good bye.
> >>>
> >>
> >>and please follow him.
> >
> >
> > LOL - still here Matt - touchy touchy. People like Mxsmanic don't
> > bother me, if they did, I'd bozo bin them. I wouldn't get in a huff and
> > leave the group! LOL It's a sad, almost pathetic, reaction.
> >
>
> Yes, almost as pathetic as your response to his response.

I was hoping it might make him see some sense.

--
Duncan

[AJ]

On Feb 11, 3:25 pm, "Darkwing" <theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote:
> "Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
>
> Unfortunately Captain Jackass aka Msxmanic has basically ruined this
> newsgroup which I have read and occasionally posted on for the last three
> years.

That's giving Mxsmanic an awful lot of power. He may be a jerk, but
jerks exist in all areas of life and we must deal with them. I've yet
to hear of a suicide note that read "I met a jerk today. All is
lost. Goodbye."

Trudge on and if Mxsmanic pops up, hit delete. DON'T ANSWER HIM!

AJ

[Judah]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in
news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02:

> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
> kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
> flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I
> am going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that
> Msxmanic will undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.

Quite frankly, I think many of us who have been infuriated by Manix's
tactics have gone through this. As members-in-good-standing of this
community, I think we take more ownership than is due of the newsgroup. The
harsh reality is that pilot or not, he has as much right to express his
opinion about piloting on this newsgroup as we do - it's a public forum.
There's nothing we can do to stop him. It's akin to any or all of us
gathering up in peaceful protest outside his apartment in Paris with signs
saying that he doesn't know the first thing about tourism in Paris. It's
injurious and obnoxious for sure. But unfortunately, there's no real
recourse.

I suspect that after a short break you'll miss us and be back. Hopefully,
when you come back, you'll learn to deal with his antics. Personally, I've
gone through several iterations of it. At this point, I don't even have him
killfiled anymore.

I think the trick is not to go back and forth with him once he starts
using his "pick-a-point" tactic. Most of the discussions with him seem to
start off as typical debate, which we saw much of here even before his
arrival. When he starts quoting and disputing less-than-primary points of
an opponent's argument in order to prove the other person wrong or steer
the conversation to his utility, that's when I move on.

I don't think he's going to go away until he tires of the group. That time
will be up to him. But it shouldn't be too difficult to filter out what you
don't like on this group - not necessarily using technology, but just by
adjusting your own reading style...

[Morgans]

"AJ" > wrote

> That's giving Mxsmanic an awful lot of power. He may be a jerk, but
> jerks exist in all areas of life and we must deal with them. I've yet
> to hear of a suicide note that read "I met a jerk today. All is
> lost. Goodbye."

If you think that we do not have a lot of good people leaving because of
him, you are fooling yourself, and the joke is on you.

Participation here is not supposed to be a chore, and avoidance of the chore
is optional, unlike real life. When you have to work so hard to avoid the
jerk, it is far easier to just not participate.

This has been a superb lesson on the art of trolling. If any troll has ever
destroyed any group, (and they have) MX has the ability to do it. The sad
part, is that people who participate in any manner with replying to his
posts, are contributing. Everyone needs to stop replying, EVEN if it is to
correct him, or put him down.

Everyone.

It needs to stop, now.

Even the good guys, stop replying. It is time.
--
Jim in NC

[JGalban[_16_]]

Personally, I just ignore him like I would any other newsgroup troll.
It's pretty easily done. I've been around here for about 10 yrs. and
never considered leaving because of a troll. If they are ignored, they
go away quite quickly.

The problem is not with the troll. Judging from the stats, the r.a.
groups really like responding to his posts. What they get out of it is
beyond me, but the numbers don't lie. As long as he gets his feedback
fix (doesn't matter if it's positive or negative), he'll be with us for
the forseeable future. Nothing wrong with that either, if that's what
the group wants. It doesn't really affect me one way or the other
since I skip his posts and usually most of the ones that respond to
him.

BTW- for you folks that post complaints about him, you might as well
be laying out a welcome mat.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

[Al G[_1_]]

"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Feb 10, 8:38 pm, "Casey Wilson" > wrote:
snip

>
> I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
> of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
> Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
> trying to discuss.

Bull****.

Al G

[[email protected]]

On Feb 11, 7:33 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> I hope this is some sort of a Casey-spoof, because -- if not -- it's
> about the dumbest thing I've ever seen written here.
>
> And I've seen a LOT of dumb things here.

I have been with the rec.aviation groups for quite some time..... And
unfortunately, Casey is spot on....

I myself am disgusted with the few folks that don't respect the
majority and looking hard elsewhere to share my experiences....

I shouldn't have to filter anything, never did, never will Yes, it's
my choice, and the few that goes against the spirit of the group do
make it bad for majority....

Allen

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 4:52 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:

> It needs to stop, now.
>
> Even the good guys, stop replying. It is time.

They won't Jim,

As long as the select Mx fans keep responding, we will be the fish
swimming upstream since the select few minority do make it bad for us.

Allen

[Morgans]

> They won't Jim,
>
> As long as the select Mx fans keep responding, we will be the fish
> swimming upstream since the select few minority do make it bad for us.

I wonder how much longer it will be worth it for many people to come here
and fight the infestation.

I know I am reaching my limits. I have other places to go to talk aviation
with people.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> > I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
> > of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
> > Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
> > trying to discuss.
>
> Bull****.

You know, you guys really need to lighten up. Remember when Skylune
was flying off in every direction, hot and heavy? People were beside
themselves trying to shut him down, and keep him quiet.

I took another tack, and engaged with him. We talked politics, he
opened up and started talking about his days when he took flight
lessons. He turned out to be an okay guy, just ****ed off at some
doofus who kept over-flying his house. He's now a regular here, and
often contributes valuable input to this group.

MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation. He's
coming 'round to see that -- when posting on a pilot's group -- he has
to explicitly state that he's talking about sim experience. And he
has iniated some very interesting threads -- which is more than I can
say about a lot of the folks who are trash-talking him.

Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.

Different animal, here.

You couldn't be more wrong.

You will be part of our downfall, Jay.

Jim - out

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 8:26 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.

BEEN THERE, TRIED IT, DONE IT.

Doesn't work.....

Allen

[Jim Logajan]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> You know, you guys really need to lighten up.

For what little it is worth, I agree with you.

I first encountered Usenet/netnews back in 1988. And I've had the (mis)
fortune to moderate several Usenet newsgroups. I've also been (and still
am) on a fair number of e-mail lists and Web forums. It is my humble
observation that you will find people with characteristics that are
annoying on any online forum. Hell, anyone with any social interaction will
find annoying characters in face-to-face encounters. At least in real life
they have to go home (unless the person annoying you is the bartender or
barber - then you go home or find a new place to socialize).

If your personality is one that demands control of your environment, I
think you will eventually find enormous frustration in any online forum.
The solution to the one's angst in these cases isn't externally caused, it
is internal.

So my humble suggestion is to do the Zen-sort-of-thing and "lighten up."
Are you masters of your own emotional state or not?

[Jim Logajan]

I, Jim Logajan > wrote:
> The solution to the one's angst in these cases isn't externally
> caused, it is internal.

That's incomprehensible even to me! :-)

Fortunately I wrote it on a forum where someone is bound to tell me what I
was trying to say. ;-)

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 4:53 pm, JGalban > wrote:

> The problem is not with the troll. Judging from the stats, the r.a.
> groups really like responding to his posts. What they get out of it is
> beyond me, but the numbers don't lie. As long as he gets his feedback
> fix (doesn't matter if it's positive or negative), he'll be with us for
> the forseeable future.

John.

Agree 100 percent with the above. I have been saying this since
October.... and the Mx fans then call the trump card "freedom of
speech", they will reply to whom ever and whenever, which obviously is
disrespectful to those that want this troll to wither away.

I have been trying to emphasize to trim back the headers to the sim
groups or reply via email. It's really that simple.

The problem is that when somebody starts a thread, he then puts his
two cents in and things spiral down, and then you can't follow the
thread anymore.

Until the minority STOP replying to him whether it be an initial post
to the groups or a response, TROLLS will never go away.

Allen

[mad8]

On Feb 11, 1:44 am, Jim Logajan > wrote:
> "Casey Wilson" > wrote:
> > I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
> > posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out
> > what kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my
> > real flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason
> > alone, I am going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is
> > that Msxmanic will undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having
> > won.
>
> Rats.
>
> I hope to get a pilot certificate soon and would appreciate it if not all
> the qualified people not be run off this group. I don't claim to speak for
> others in my situation, but I'd hazard a guess I'm not alone in that worry.

Seconded.
I can't seem to find enough resources to fly, but slowly and surely
i'm hoping to get there. At least reading here i'm getting some info
that's not in the AIM... and some interesting stories also.

[Al G[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
>> > of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
>> > Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
>> > trying to discuss.
>>
>> Bull****.
>
> You know, you guys really need to lighten up. Remember when Skylune
> was flying off in every direction, hot and heavy? People were beside
> themselves trying to shut him down, and keep him quiet.
>
> I took another tack, and engaged with him. We talked politics, he
> opened up and started talking about his days when he took flight
> lessons. He turned out to be an okay guy, just ****ed off at some
> doofus who kept over-flying his house. He's now a regular here, and
> often contributes valuable input to this group.
>
> MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation. He's
> coming 'round to see that -- when posting on a pilot's group -- he has
> to explicitly state that he's talking about sim experience. And he
> has iniated some very interesting threads -- which is more than I can
> say about a lot of the folks who are trash-talking him.
>
> Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Hi Jay,

I respectfully disagree. He isn't trying to discuss aviation. He asks a
seemingly reasonable question, gets an honest answer from someone who has
been there, and done it, and then flat out states that he knows the answer
is wrong. No discussion. No evidence to support his position. No reasons why
he feels everyone with experience is "lying" to him.

The pitch vs. power controls airspeed is a good example. He led off with
a pre-solo student question, and when someone gave him a very reasonable and
slightly simplified answer, he jumped right back with "what if I'm behind
the power curve?". Well, if he knows what a power curve is, and how you get
behind it, he knows enough that the first question made no sense. The
original question was no more than an opening serve. It was bait.

No need to "Lighten up", because "Frankly scarlet I don't give a damn".
He may grow up to be a reasonable person, most teenagers do. But in the
meantime they are a PITA, and again I am speaking from experience.
Diplomacy is based on some form of mutual respect, and he has demonstrated
no respect for the professionals who have attempted to offer him free dual
and the benefit of REAL experience. I am a CFI and have been "Teaching pigs
to sing" longer than he has been alive. He wouldn't know a pearl of wisdom
if he choked on it. No big rip, I plunked him a long time ago, but I still
carry my big red "Bull****" stamp.

On the other hand, I have really enjoyed your contribution to this
group. There are a number of people that get sorted to the top of my "must
read" list. I used to live in Reno, and your account of your trip to the air
races was priceless. I could see the terrain between Winnemucca and Elko
while I was reading your story. You seem to have the talent to draw a
picture with words. If I ever get East of the Rockies, I'll stop by.

Al G

[Mxsmanic]

Al G writes:

> The pitch vs. power controls airspeed is a good example. He led off with
> a pre-solo student question, and when someone gave him a very reasonable and
> slightly simplified answer, he jumped right back with "what if I'm behind
> the power curve?".

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=10&q=%22power+curve%22+author%3Amxsmanic%40gmail.com&safe=off&qt_s=Search

Only one USENET post by him contains "power curve," and it occurs only in a
backquote of something said by someone else. None of his posts to any
rec.aviation.* group contains "behind the power curve."

> Well, if he knows what a power curve is, and how you get
> behind it, he knows enough that the first question made no sense.

He knows what Google is, and how it can be used to show that someone is making
false assertions.

He knows that if a person carelessly or deliberately makes one or more
demonstrably false assertions, any other assertions he makes must be regarded
with extreme caution.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> Only one USENET post by him ...

> He knows what Google is...

> He knows that ...

Speaking of yourself in the third person. Another sign of insanity.

[JGalban[_17_]]

Wrote:
> On Feb 12, 4:53 pm, JGalban > wrote:
>
> > The problem is not with the troll. Judging from the stats, the r.a.
> > groups really like responding to his posts. What they get out of it
> is
> > beyond me, but the numbers don't lie. As long as he gets his
> feedback
> > fix (doesn't matter if it's positive or negative), he'll be with us
> for
> > the forseeable future.
>
> Agree 100 percent with the above. I have been saying this since
> October.... and the Mx fans then call the trump card "freedom of
> speech", they will reply to whom ever and whenever, which obviously is
> disrespectful to those that want this troll to wither away.

If the troll has fans that wish to keep him entertained, then that is
their right. As I said above, the stats would indicate that there are
a significant number of "MX fans" if you include both positive and
negative responses. When I look at a thread on Google and see 35
responses by a dozen different people, I already know what I'll find
when I get inside. It's like watching people pound their heads
against a wall.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

[Kev]

On Feb 13, 2:34 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > Only one USENET post by him ...
> > He knows what Google is...
> > He knows that ...
>
> Speaking of yourself in the third person. Another sign of insanity.

Being obsessed with attacking someone, is probably not a good sign
either.

Kev

[Steve Foley]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message

> MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation.

I also disagree.

I found a way to eliminate him along with any threads he pollutes from my
newsreader. Every so often I change from 'hide ignored messages' to 'show
all messages', just to see if anyone is actually posting.

There's not much troll-free traffic here anymore. It's too bad.

The interesting part is that you are the sole example that I can think of
who could be hurt financially from the death of this group. You've managed
to promote your business along with contributing to this group. I have no
idea how much business is generated through usenet (I suspect not much), but
I doubt you'll get any in 2008 if things continue as they have.

When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
it.

[Peter R.]

On 2/13/2007 3:44:38 PM, "Steve Foley" wrote:

> If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
> it.

You need a newsreader that only deletes branches of threads, not the entire
thread, where the poster in question originates the branch.

Otherwise you are missing some good threads started by a legitimate poster.

--
Peter

[Mike Gaskins]

On Feb 13, 2:34 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > Only one USENET post by him ...
> > He knows what Google is...
> > He knows that ...
>
> Speaking of yourself in the third person. Another sign of insanity.

He probably thought he was posting as one of his other identities
("Matt" I believe is a popular one). He has sat there posting back
and forth to himself when he couldn't get others to take his bait.

Mike

[Steve Foley]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> On 2/13/2007 3:44:38 PM, "Steve Foley" wrote:
>
>> If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
>> it.
>
> You need a newsreader that only deletes branches of threads, not the
> entire
> thread, where the poster in question originates the branch.
>
> Otherwise you are missing some good threads started by a legitimate
> poster.
>

I actually have Outlook Express doing that. His posts, responses to him, and
responses to those, are all ignored. It only ignores threads from his
posting and below.

Unfortunately, that leaves little to read, so little reason to check in.

[Peter R.]

On 2/13/2007 4:31:00 PM, "Steve Foley" wrote:

> I actually have Outlook Express doing that. His posts, responses to him, and
> responses to those, are all ignored. It only ignores threads from his
> posting and below.
>
> Unfortunately, that leaves little to read, so little reason to check in.

Ah, OK. I have a similar filter but I find it does leave enough content to
check in once a day. I am seeing, though, that there are many long-time
regulars no longer here, though. Their input is sorely missed by this pilot.

--
Peter

[Jay Honeck]

> Hell, anyone with any social interaction will
> find annoying characters in face-to-face encounters. At least in real life
> they have to go home (unless the person annoying you is the bartender or
> barber - then you go home or find a new place to socialize).

Maybe that's why I don't find MX so bothersome -- I deal with every
possible aspect of humanity, from the poorest of the poor, to the
wealthiest of the rich, every single day. I did it for years in
newspapers, and I've done it for almost five years in the hotel.

We all know the world is full of idiots -- but it's also full of
wonderful people. I started enjoying life a lot more when I realized
that often they were the same people -- it's just up to us to see
it.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm no pollyanna. I've physically escorted some
very annoying people from the hotel, and I won't hesitate to charge
someone for damaging my towels. But I will also listen to almost any
story you want to tell me, and will welcome any suggestion you'd like
to make, or input you may have. It's called being nice, and I guess
those of us who were raised in the Midwest are just that way.

There are so many more truly annoying people -- here, and in the real
world -- that I honestly wouldn't have noticed MX, were it not for all
the hoopla about him. IMHO, he is just a lonely guy sitting 10,000
miles away, conversing about flying. If you don't like him, fine, but
to make a big deal out of him is just...silly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Steve Foley wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
>> MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation.
>
> When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
> filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
> it.


I'm never going to see it even if MX hasn't touched it. I've had enough of his
defending this loser. Obviously, he's lacking the ability to think critically.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Jay Honeck]

> The interesting part is that you are the sole example that I can think of
> who could be hurt financially from the death of this group. You've managed
> to promote your business along with contributing to this group. I have no
> idea how much business is generated through usenet (I suspect not much), but
> I doubt you'll get any in 2008 if things continue as they have.

In case you haven't noticed, Steve, I'm not the sort that cares about
stuff like that. I post what I want to post here, usually with my
tongue firmly in cheek (and a thick skin), and I don't worry too much
about the fallout. Shoot, if we relied on Usenet for business, we
wouldn't have lasted 5 weeks, let alone 5 years!

Although I respect the views that are expressed here, and often seek
feedback for changes we're contemplating at the hotel, I'm afraid
losing rec.aviation would do grave harm my psyche, not my checkbook.

But I don't think we have to worry about that happening any time
soon. I've seen this group rocked by some pretty aggravating people,
over the years. Usenet is pretty sturdy!

> When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
> filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
> it.

Already did! The Pre-Oshkosh Pool Party is July 21st. We then all
fly into OSH on July 22nd. It'll be one for the books, I tell ya, and
hopefully we won't have to hold around Rush Lake for two hours
again...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Buck Murdock]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> There are so many more truly annoying people -- here, and in the real
> world -- that I honestly wouldn't have noticed MX, were it not for all
> the hoopla about him.

He's posted over FIFTEEN THOUSAND messages since June of 2005, the bulk
of them directed at the aviation newsgroups in the past year. Look up
his profile on Google Groups; it's enlightening.

> If you don't like him, fine, but
> to make a big deal out of him is just...silly.

Let's put it in terms you're closer to: I've never run a hotel, but I
watched a lot of Newhart and Fawlty Towers years ago, and I played
SimCity, too. I'm going to have a discussion with you--a professional
hotel manager--about running a hotel. In that discussion, I'm going to
argue with you about EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAY, because what you say
isn't how they did it on Newhart, and my other research backs me up.

That's what this guy's doing to experienced pilots here. What you call
silly, I call trolling.

[Dave[_3_]]

With you on this one Jay!

Dave


On 12 Feb 2007 18:26:21 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>> > I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
>> > of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
>> > Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
>> > trying to discuss.
>>
>> Bull****.
>
>You know, you guys really need to lighten up. Remember when Skylune
>was flying off in every direction, hot and heavy? People were beside
>themselves trying to shut him down, and keep him quiet.
>
>I took another tack, and engaged with him. We talked politics, he
>opened up and started talking about his days when he took flight
>lessons. He turned out to be an okay guy, just ****ed off at some
>doofus who kept over-flying his house. He's now a regular here, and
>often contributes valuable input to this group.
>
>MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation. He's
>coming 'round to see that -- when posting on a pilot's group -- he has
>to explicitly state that he's talking about sim experience. And he
>has iniated some very interesting threads -- which is more than I can
>say about a lot of the folks who are trash-talking him.
>
>Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.

[Dave[_3_]]

Ummm... help me here...

You apologise..

(Accepted, but I wish you to stay)

....then you repeat the "warning" that you apologise for posting many
times before?

Isn't that kind of like... SLAP!..."oh I'm sorry"....SLAP! .. again?

Dave

(NOT and MX "fan" , nor a "fan" of anyone in particular, with my
"treasured status" (your terminology) very much intact... :) )






On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 04:38:48 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote:

> I sat in the shadows for a long time attempting to ignore the resident
>troll, hoping against all odds that he would go away. When I could no longer
>restrain myself, I started feeding the troll against my better judgement.
> It is apparent that I have done nothing constructive in that regard and,
>in my attempts, have probably offended a number of you whom I consider to be
>excellent aviators, if not going as far as alienating some of you as well.
> I earned my PP ASEL in 1975 and have never stopped learning. Along the
>way, I have written more than a few aviation related articles published in
>both regional and national magazines. I've made my bones and I've earned my
>airman's title and the right to comment on matters of aviation - when I have
>something to contribute or need your learned experience. It simply galls me
>that someone like Mxsmanic can violate our treasured status day in and day
>out and continue to survive, even thrive.
>
> I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
>posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
>kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
>flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I am
>going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that Msxmanic will
>undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.
>
>With apologies and regrets,
>
>Casey Wilson
>PP ASEL
>Freelance Writer
> and Photographer
>
>P.S. - Mxsmanic is NOT a pilot, has NEVER flown an aircraft and is NOT
>qualified to
>issue competent information regarding any aspect of the operation of any
>aircraft.
>

[Mxsmanic]

Buck Murdock writes:

> He's posted over FIFTEEN THOUSAND messages since June of 2005 ...

Actually, just under 100,000 in all the years I've been using this pseudonym.

> ... the bulk of them directed at the aviation newsgroups in
> the past year. Look up his profile on Google Groups; it's enlightening.

I did, and you're wrong.

I've actually posted a bit under 1200 messages to the rec.aviation.*
newsgroups, not the more than 7500 that you misleadingly claim.

If you're going to engage in personal attacks, I suggest that you make them
vague enough that they cannot be clearly contradicted by facts.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[BDS[_2_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote

> I'm never going to see it even if MX hasn't touched it. I've had enough
of his
> defending this loser. Obviously, he's lacking the ability to think
critically.

I don't think it's so much that as that there is no common point of
reference or understanding when it comes to Mx. Ask him for definitions of
things like what constitutes GA for example, and you will find that his
definition is completely different from anyone who actually flies.
Therefore, if you go into it assuming that he knows what he is actually
talking about, or you think you understand what he is asking, then you set
yourself up for miscommunication and the
endless-descending-spiral-into-oblivion-circular-logic discussion which is
so typical of the discussions that involve the guy.

I don't understand why so many people get so worked up about it - I just
consider the source, and I don't read what I'm not interested in. If some
people here want to spend the time trying to understand the guy and perhaps
help him, fine - why not?

As far as worrying about potential pilots getting bad information from him
is concerned, anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes on the internet
knows how much weight to put on the information that you find there.

BDS

[john smith]

In article >,
"Al G" > wrote:

> I respectfully disagree. He isn't trying to discuss aviation. He asks a
> seemingly reasonable question, gets an honest answer from someone who has
> been there, and done it, and then flat out states that he knows the answer
> is wrong. No discussion. No evidence to support his position. No reasons why
> he feels everyone with experience is "lying" to him.

Since I have his original posts kill filed and I generally kill a thread
if his header preceeds a response, I have stopped following Anthony's
topics. I think Al has provided the best arguement for the trolling
arguement. It would be an interesting study to post Mx's initial
question and his successive responses to a given thread to show he is
indeed trolling.

[Jay Honeck]

> Let's put it in terms you're closer to: I've never run a hotel, but I
> watched a lot of Newhart and Fawlty Towers years ago, and I played
> SimCity, too. I'm going to have a discussion with you--a professional
> hotel manager--about running a hotel. In that discussion, I'm going to
> argue with you about EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAY, because what you say
> isn't how they did it on Newhart, and my other research backs me up.

I know you intended this to be a compliment, Buck, but it's truly
hilarious. Mary and I were FAR from "professional hotel managers"
when we bought the business back in 2002. I'm a newspaper guy, Mary's
a medical technologist -- and our only hotel experience prior to
buying the place was as disappointed guests in other hotels.

We, in fact, learned a lot about what people want in a hotel by simply
asking people on this newsgroup.

But I get your point.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kev]

On Feb 14, 8:42 am, "BDS" > wrote:
> As far as worrying about potential pilots getting bad information from him
> is concerned, anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes on the internet
> knows how much weight to put on the information that you find there.

Indeed, you quickly figure out who's worth listening to, or not.

It's a bit insulting when a few people think that they have to "warn"
everyone else. Inflated egos at work ! As if they're the only
readers smart enough !

Quite often it also turns out that one of his responders is dead
wrong. They should be thankful that they're not treated in kind,
even though they deserve it.

The majority don't defend Mx, the person. We just abhor the wasteful
methods used against him. Do the people posting insults or goodbyes,
think that makes them look more manly or something? Because it sure
does the opposite.

Kev

[Kev]

On Feb 13, 8:37 pm, Buck Murdock > wrote:
> Let's put it in terms you're closer to: I've never run a hotel, but I
> watched a lot of Newhart and Fawlty Towers years ago, and I played
> SimCity, too. I'm going to have a discussion with you--a professional
> hotel manager--about running a hotel. In that discussion, I'm going to
> argue with you about EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAY, because what you say
> isn't how they did it on Newhart, and my other research backs me up.

Okay, so you're saying that someone without direct experience should
not constantly argue a topic ? Let's run with that hypothesis:

Those of us with lots of experience being moderators of large groups,
have said many times, that it's the whiners who are being most
disruptive and who would be censored first. So unless they have
experience with moderating a group with thousands of members, they
should stop and shut up, right?

Oh yeah, we could only wish ;-)

Cheers, Kev

[Andrew Sarangan]

On Feb 13, 5:05 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > Hell, anyone with any social interaction will
> > find annoying characters in face-to-face encounters. At least in real life
> > they have to go home (unless the person annoying you is the bartender or
> > barber - then you go home or find a new place to socialize).
>
> Maybe that's why I don't find MX so bothersome -- I deal with every
> possible aspect of humanity, from the poorest of the poor, to the
> wealthiest of the rich, every single day. I did it for years in
> newspapers, and I've done it for almost five years in the hotel.
>
>

I have to agree with Jay. As a university professor, I too face lots
of questions from all types of people. I try to live by 'there are no
stupid questions, only stupid answers'. Most of the questions which at
first seem trivial or stupid are often due to a lack of our own
understanding.

Most of the posts that involve mxsmanic goes something like this. He
might ask "what makes an airplane turn?". Someone answers: "when you
bank the airplane, the horizontal force makes the airplane turn'. Then
he responds with 'but a horizontal force can't make an airplane turn,
it only makes it fly sideways". This annoys the other pilots. "Why do
you ask trivial questions and then argue with the answer?" And so it
goes.

[Don Tuite]

On 14 Feb 2007 15:53:19 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan" >
wrote:


> . . .As a university professor, I too face lots
>of questions from all types of people. I try to live by 'there are no
>stupid questions, only stupid answers'. Most of the questions which at
>first seem trivial or stupid are often due to a lack of our own
>understanding.
>
Well, besides:

"Will you be grading us on the curve?"
and
"Do we need to know this for the final?"
which probably do not arise from your own lack of understanding. . . .

There's:
"So what are you going to do about it, biker scum?"
"Would you mind if I slept with other women?"
"I shouldn't have been speeding, should I?"
"Who's gonna know?"
"Why can't we all just get along?"

Don