HID Landing Light

[Kyle Boatright]

Other than the absence of a suitable mount (easily fixed), does anyone see
any problem with this light as a landing light?

http://www.trailtech.net/4211-SX-150.html

I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree beam
angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in the same
housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.

Thoughts?

KB

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 7:09 pm, "Kyle Boatright" > wrote:
> Other than the absence of a suitable mount (easily fixed), does anyone see
> any problem with this light as a landing light?
>
> http://www.trailtech.net/4211-SX-150.html
>
> I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
> should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree beam
> angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in the same
> housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> KB

I didn't see any specs for the motor cycle light you are looking at...
I do know that the one these guys sell puts out way more light than a
standard landing light and has longer life.

http://www.knots2u.com/HID%20Light.htm

The motorcylce HID you are looking at should have longer life than a
Halogen as well, I just didn't see anything about how much light it
generated...

Dean

[Morgans]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote

> I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
> should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree beam
> angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in the
> same housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.

If going into a homebuilt, why don't you consider going to an auto salvage
yard, and having a look around? There are many cars, and have been many for
about the past 3 years, that are equipped with HID's, and would put out a
lot more than this pint sized motorcycle head and handle bar lamp. Read
"magnitudes" more.

I would think that the selection and price would be pretty good, by now.
Also, many have lenses that could be spaced at different lengths away from
the light source, for an adjustable focal length. That sounds like a very
good option, to me.
--
Jim in NC

[Kyle Boatright]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote
>
>> I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
>> should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree
>> beam angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in
>> the same housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.
>
> If going into a homebuilt, why don't you consider going to an auto salvage
> yard, and having a look around? There are many cars, and have been many
> for about the past 3 years, that are equipped with HID's, and would put
> out a lot more than this pint sized motorcycle head and handle bar lamp.
> Read "magnitudes" more.

I'm not sure about that.. This is a 30W lamp, and most auto headlights are
35W. You can buy aftermarket auto stuff that is 50W, but that's about the
limit.

One of the issues I've always *thought* existed with stuff pulled from an
auto is that you may also need to use the headlight lens that came with the
car, because the lights themselves only include a reflector, bulb, and
ballast, but not an optic. I think a Lexus (tm) headlight lens assembly
would look pretty unusual on my RV-6. ;-)

The advantage of this kit (seemingly) is that it has all the optics included
and it is small enough to fit into the existing landing light mount with
minor modifications.

KB

>
> I would think that the selection and price would be pretty good, by now.
> Also, many have lenses that could be spaced at different lengths away from
> the light source, for an adjustable focal length. That sounds like a very
> good option, to me.
> --
> Jim in NC

[Rob Turk]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
> Other than the absence of a suitable mount (easily fixed), does anyone see
> any problem with this light as a landing light?
>
> http://www.trailtech.net/4211-SX-150.html
>
> I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
> should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree beam
> angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in the
> same housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> KB

We're installing a Hella DE-Xenon lamp. The link below shows a double set,
but you can get single lamps as well:
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/hella/micro_de_xenon.jsp

It's really tiny, puts out an enormous amount of light and stays relatively
cool.

Rob

[Morgans]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote

> I'm not sure about that.. This is a 30W lamp, and most auto headlights are
> 35W. You can buy aftermarket auto stuff that is 50W, but that's about the
> limit.\

I have to admit that I had not investigated that, and am surprised that the
auto units are only 35 watts.

> One of the issues I've always *thought* existed with stuff pulled from an
> auto is that you may also need to use the headlight lens that came with
> the car, because the lights themselves only include a reflector, bulb, and
> ballast, but not an optic. I think a Lexus (tm) headlight lens assembly
> would look pretty unusual on my RV-6. ;-)

Indeed! <G>

> The advantage of this kit (seemingly) is that it has all the optics
> included and it is small enough to fit into the existing landing light
> mount with minor modifications.

You have made some good points. At $149, that is a deal, compared to the
prices of the other HID units in their inventory. This must be an intro
price, or something.
--
Jim in NC

[Kyle Boatright]

"Rob Turk" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Other than the absence of a suitable mount (easily fixed), does anyone
>> see any problem with this light as a landing light?
>>
>> http://www.trailtech.net/4211-SX-150.html
>>
>> I'm considering upgrading from a 50W Halogen lamp, and understand that I
>> should get ~2x the lumens from a 30W HID. This light has a 12 degree
>> beam angle and the housing is 2 3/4" in diameter. Their floodlight (in
>> the same housing) has a 36 degree beam angle.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> KB
>
> We're installing a Hella DE-Xenon lamp. The link below shows a double set,
> but you can get single lamps as well:
> http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/hella/micro_de_xenon.jsp
>
> It's really tiny, puts out an enormous amount of light and stays
> relatively cool.
>
> Rob

How many watts is the bulb?

What temperature light does the light produce?

Is the cost of a single lamp $350 or thereabouts?

Thanks,

KB

[Peter Dohm]

>
> One of the issues I've always *thought* existed with stuff pulled from an
> auto is that you may also need to use the headlight lens that came with
the
> car, because the lights themselves only include a reflector, bulb, and
> ballast, but not an optic. I think a Lexus (tm) headlight lens assembly
> would look pretty unusual on my RV-6. ;-)
>
That raises some interesting questions, and I admit that I have not looked
at any to the automotive HID units with that in mind, or attempted to
dissassemble them. In theory, however, some cutting would be required,
since I believe that they are made to conform to the definition of sealed
beam.

As far as I know, the definition of a sealed beam lamp is that the external
lens and the reflector are "manufactured" as a single unit--which can not be
dissassembled and reassembled in the normal course of service. A carefull
look at some of the halogen headlamp assemblies on some of the less
expensive newer cars suggests that it would also be technically correct to
glue/bond a plexiglass lens onto one of the older style sealed bean headlamp
bulbs, as a secondary manufacturing prosess--thus creating a streamlined
sealed beam headlamp.

All of that is a, possibly long winded, way of suggesting that the HID
headlamps on cars sold in the US might simply be a permanently glued version
of more fully maintainable headlamp assemblies sold elsewhere. In other
words, we may simply be giving up the ability to replace the plexiglass
outer lens in order to comply with laws mandating sealed beam lamps.

Therefore, the possibility exists that the outer plexiglass lens could be
cut away from some of the HID headlamp assemblies, and that sufficient
structure might remain to support all other portions of the
assembly--including the primary focussing lens. A new plexiglass lens could
then be a part of either the airframe on the lamp assembly--since there is
no sealed beam requirement for an aircraft.

Some of the HID headlamp equiped cars are getting old enough for the outer
lenses to cloud over in the southern parts of the US, so some assemblies
could be available from salvage yards at very reasonable cost--depending
upon the cost and longevity of the light and balast. The beam width,
however, will be *much* greater in the horizontal plane--which could be an
advantage for taxiing.

If anyone has occassion to try any of this, I am very curious as to the
result.

Peter

[Rob Turk]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>>
>> We're installing a Hella DE-Xenon lamp. The link below shows a double
>> set, but you can get single lamps as well:
>> http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/hella/micro_de_xenon.jsp
>>
>> It's really tiny, puts out an enormous amount of light and stays
>> relatively cool.
>>
>> Rob
>
> How many watts is the bulb?
>
> What temperature light does the light produce?
>
> Is the cost of a single lamp $350 or thereabouts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> KB

It's a 35W lamp, 4500K light temperature.
A single lamp including ballast circuitry was about 250 Euro (~ $325) when
we bought it last year

Rob

[Peter Dohm]

> The HID headlights installed in cars are for the low-beam application.
> These wide angle lights aren't very suitable for landing lights unless
> you install them in a different, narrow beam reflector. Off road HID
> lights work better as landing lights. I suppose your could rig up
> something suitable out of a set of off road light housings and the guts
> from a set of junkyard HID lamps.
>
I admit that I've wondered about high and low beam. The ones I've seen on
the road appear to cover both the high and low beam applications, but I have
no idea how they do it.

Peter

[[email protected]]

You can't use wig wags with HID or is that just the zenon?

I did something similar to those-- i bought the Home Depot desk track
lights for $15 each, molded them into the wingtip.

Then I noticed my buddy was running the same size on his Quads. So I
swapped out the existing low watts for 100w+. IIRC

Wig wag was a priority on the RV-7a although I'm wondering about HID for
another project and forgetting the wig wags.

rv-7a
feb. 06 first flight
262 hrs.

[Morgans]

"Richard Riley" > wrote

> No, can't run wig wags with HID. It takes them several seconds to
> warm up, like sodium street lights.

I like to tinker.

The thought occurred to me, that you could take two of those self contained
HID helmet and handlebar lights that the original question was about, and
make them fold down out of the bottom of the wing, like some of the old
landing lights. They also could be behind a molded plexi leading edge
cover, if you wanted to do it that way.

The extra trick I had in mind, that would give a flashing recognition light
effect, would be to have them driven by something like a windshield wiper
motor, hooked to a cable going to each wingtip, oscillating them back and
forth through about 30 degrees each side of center, with the park setting of
the wiper gearbox aiming the lights straight ahead for landing.

What do you think? Ever seen anything like that done before?
--
Jim in NC

[Bill McMullen]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>
> No, can't run wig wags with HID. It takes them several seconds to
> warm up, like sodium street lights.

Digging around the internet a while ago I came across the following:
http://www.aerovisions.com/hid/hid_pulsing.html
Looks like wig-wag is now possible but at 4-digit prices.

[Morgans]

"Richard Riley" > wrote

> You could do an LCD shutter.
>
> http://www.smartglassinternational.com/lc-smartglass.html

Neat site. It could do some interesting things, such as a fast twinkle,
like strobes do.

It does look like it has disadvantage, as even when it is clear, some of the
light is scattered. That would mean reduced lumens focused on the runway.
:-(

Also, it still would only put the bright beam on a narrow range of potential
viewers. By swiveling, it would pan across a wider angle, while keeping the
focus bright, where more views might see the lights.
--
Jim in NC

[Blueskies]

"Morgans" > wrote in message ...
:
: "Richard Riley" > wrote
:
: > No, can't run wig wags with HID. It takes them several seconds to
: > warm up, like sodium street lights.
:
: I like to tinker.
:
: The thought occurred to me, that you could take two of those self contained
: HID helmet and handlebar lights that the original question was about, and
: make them fold down out of the bottom of the wing, like some of the old
: landing lights. They also could be behind a molded plexi leading edge
: cover, if you wanted to do it that way.
:
: The extra trick I had in mind, that would give a flashing recognition light
: effect, would be to have them driven by something like a windshield wiper
: motor, hooked to a cable going to each wingtip, oscillating them back and
: forth through about 30 degrees each side of center, with the park setting of
: the wiper gearbox aiming the lights straight ahead for landing.
:
: What do you think? Ever seen anything like that done before?
: --
: Jim in NC
:

Can you spell vertigo?

[Kyle Boatright]

"Bill McMullen" > wrote in message
news:StFBh.88705$Fd.25861@edtnps90...
>
> "Richard Riley" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No, can't run wig wags with HID. It takes them several seconds to
>> warm up, like sodium street lights.
>
> Digging around the internet a while ago I came across the following:
> http://www.aerovisions.com/hid/hid_pulsing.html
> Looks like wig-wag is now possible but at 4-digit prices.

The folks I've found who wig-wag HID's don't turn the lights off. They
simply cycle the lights from normal voltage to a lower voltage, creating a
wig-wag effect.

KB

[Morgans]

"Blueskies" > wrote

> Can you spell vertigo?

<Chuckle>

True, perhaps, if you did not switch to the "Park Straight Ahead" alignment,
before they started illuminating the ground.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Richard Riley" > wrote
>
> I think with any kind of moisture in the air (thin haze, mist, 5 mile
> visibility) they would be disorienting.

More so than wig-wag sing lights? I don't know.

If it was, it would be a simple choice to leave them pointed straight ahead.
--
Jim in NC