gear up landing of a Piper Arrow

[buttman]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/

click on "emergency response to troubled plane"

An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get the stuck
landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the other three
gear get stuck in the down position.

[Jim Macklin]

"other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?



"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
|
| click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
|
| An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get
the stuck
| landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
other three
| gear get stuck in the down position.
|

[Al G[_1_]]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> "other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?
>

And isn't "three gear get stuck in the down position." what you want?

Al G


>
>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> | http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
> |
> | click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
> |
> | An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get
> the stuck
> | landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
> other three
> | gear get stuck in the down position.
> |
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Feb 15, 8:41 pm, "buttman" > wrote:
> http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
>
> click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
>
> An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get the stuck
> landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the other three
> gear get stuck in the down position.

The area firefighters have been under attack since they decided not to
respond to a plane crash in January in which 4 people died. A witness
walked to the firestation and reported it, yet the fire department
didn't think a little airplane required a fire truck. One official
received an official warning, another was asked to retire.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

Not on take-off.

Wheels down is only really important for the next take-off.

"Al G" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| ...
| > "other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?
| >
|
| And isn't "three gear get stuck in the down position."
what you want?
|
| Al G
|
|
| >
| >
| > "buttman" > wrote in message
| >
oups.com...
| > | http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
| > |
| > | click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
| > |
| > | An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to
get
| > the stuck
| > | landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
| > other three
| > | gear get stuck in the down position.
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

[buttman]

On Feb 16, 9:25 am, "Al G" > wrote:
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > "other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?
>
> And isn't "three gear get stuck in the down position." what you want?
>
> Al G
>
>
>
> > "buttman" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > |http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
> > |
> > | click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
> > |
> > | An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get
> > the stuck
> > | landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
> > other three
> > | gear get stuck in the down position.
> > |

gah. I meant to say the Arrow has 1 gear that was stuck up, and the
other two were down. After the bouceing (which I have never heard of
anyone doing), the two that he was able to get down, were then stuck
in the down position. I was always under the impression that it's
better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down) than it is to
land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.

[Jose]

> I was always under the impression that it's
> better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down) than it is to
> land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.

Well, if the gear can keep the prop from striking, that's a good thing.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

buttman wrote:
> gah. I meant to say the Arrow has 1 gear that was stuck up, and the
> other two were down. After the bouceing (which I have never heard of
> anyone doing), the two that he was able to get down, were then stuck
> in the down position. I was always under the impression that it's
> better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down) than it is to
> land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.


Having done it, I speak from experience: yes, it's better simply because you
have less chance to damage something. The only real difference is that when you
run out of rudder authority, you're going to turn no matter what you do. If I
had it to do over again, I'd line up on the opposite side of the runway so I'd
have more room to swing. Whichever gear doesn't come down... that's the way
you're going to turn.

All in all, it's pretty much a non-event. The media makes it out to be an
emergency but I'd call it a nuisance at most. You're not going to fly it again
for a while but nobody is likely to get hurt.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Travis Marlatte]

"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Feb 16, 9:25 am, "Al G" > wrote:
>> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > "other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?
>>
>> And isn't "three gear get stuck in the down position." what you want?
>>
>> Al G
>>
>>
>>
>> > "buttman" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > |http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
>> > |
>> > | click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
>> > |
>> > | An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get
>> > the stuck
>> > | landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
>> > other three
>> > | gear get stuck in the down position.
>> > |
>
> gah. I meant to say the Arrow has 1 gear that was stuck up, and the
> other two were down. After the bouceing (which I have never heard of
> anyone doing), the two that he was able to get down, were then stuck
> in the down position. I was always under the impression that it's
> better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down) than it is to
> land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.
>


Probably but I would have tried bouncing too. I doubt that it was the
bouncing that caused the two to get stuck down.
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

[Jim Macklin]

Always better to land with the mains down or with them up if
wing and nose. But A proper pre-flight and maintenance
reduces the issue to a rare case. But then lots of people
don't do the maintenance they should do.


"buttman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| On Feb 16, 9:25 am, "Al G" >
wrote:
| > "Jim Macklin" >
wrote in message
| >
| > ...
| >
| > > "other three?" Who knew the Arrow had 4 ?
| >
| > And isn't "three gear get stuck in the down
position." what you want?
| >
| > Al G
| >
| >
| >
| > > "buttman" > wrote in message
| >
oups.com...
| > > |http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
| > > |
| > > | click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
| > > |
| > > | An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to
get
| > > the stuck
| > > | landing gear to come down, but all it did was make
the
| > > other three
| > > | gear get stuck in the down position.
| > > |
|
| gah. I meant to say the Arrow has 1 gear that was stuck
up, and the
| other two were down. After the bouceing (which I have
never heard of
| anyone doing), the two that he was able to get down, were
then stuck
| in the down position. I was always under the impression
that it's
| better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down)
than it is to
| land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.
|

[Jim Macklin]

Let the prop strike at full power, you want a new firewall
forward. With a two blade prop, land on the mains, hold the
nose off and shut the engine down, it might even stop with
the blades horizontal.

But if you can get the mains down, you'll have a normal
landing, brakes and steering control. Very little damage to
the structure and probably zero injuries.



"Jose" > wrote in message
. net...
|> I was always under the impression that it's
| > better to land on the plan's belly (with no gear down)
than it is to
| > land with only 2 of the 3 gear down.
|
| Well, if the gear can keep the prop from striking, that's
a good thing.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Owen[_4_]]

buttman wrote:

> http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
>
> click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
>
> An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get the stuck
> landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the other three
> gear get stuck in the down position.

Wow, the follow up report is much more exciting than the landing!

A flight school mechanic & pilot wanted to try the old pull down the
gear from a truck, because they had seen that work in an Internet
video. The airport manager and sheriff dept. disagreed with that and
the end result was the mechanic getting zapped with a Stun Gun!

I would agree that such a maneuver is far too risky for the reward,
although it has paid off in the past for others. Could you fly the
airplane perfectly 6 feet over the runway in a perfect straight line
without so much of a gust moving the plane? A foot or two up or down
and you could cause a lot injury. I wouldn't want to be underneath
risking my neck and arms to find out.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=5038872

[Jim Macklin]

If you have insurance, the company does not want you adding
extra personal injury risk, they insured for hull damage,
not decapitated mechanic and wrecked truck. The TV shows
won't pay for suicide pictures [yet].



"Owen" > wrote in message
...
| buttman wrote:
|
| > http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/
| >
| > click on "emergency response to troubled plane"
| >
| > An arrow tried to bounce the plane on the runway to get
the stuck
| > landing gear to come down, but all it did was make the
other three
| > gear get stuck in the down position.
|
| Wow, the follow up report is much more exciting than the
landing!
|
| A flight school mechanic & pilot wanted to try the old
pull down the
| gear from a truck, because they had seen that work in an
Internet
| video. The airport manager and sheriff dept. disagreed
with that and
| the end result was the mechanic getting zapped with a Stun
Gun!
|
| I would agree that such a maneuver is far too risky for
the reward,
| although it has paid off in the past for others. Could
you fly the
| airplane perfectly 6 feet over the runway in a perfect
straight line
| without so much of a gust moving the plane? A foot or
two up or down
| and you could cause a lot injury. I wouldn't want to be
underneath
| risking my neck and arms to find out.
|
| http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=5038872
|

[G. Sylvester]

Owen wrote:
> The airport manager and sheriff dept. disagreed with that and
> the end result was the mechanic getting zapped with a Stun Gun!

I wonder if "1 injured" will go in the NTSB report (if there is one). :)

Gerald

[Robert M. Gary]

On Feb 17, 9:20 am, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:
> If you have insurance, the company does not want you adding
> extra personal injury risk, they insured for hull damage,
> not decapitated mechanic and wrecked truck. The TV shows
> won't pay for suicide pictures [yet].

It may be questionable if they would pay for the headless A&P anyway.
Its one of those things that if it works you look pretty slick, if it
fails you look really stupid.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Feb 16, 9:06 pm, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:
> Always better to land with the mains down or with them up if
> wing and nose. But A proper pre-flight and maintenance
> reduces the issue to a rare case. But then lots of people
> don't do the maintenance they should do.

Its amazing how often such a stuck gear situation follows immediately
after maintenance or after a really hard landing.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

Recap tires, tires over inflated, low strut or over inflated
strut, tow bar still attached to nose wheel.

I actually had some first hand knowledge of that incident.
Pilot flew in late in the evening, line person had to get
special tow bar for the aircraft. Line boy left it on the
aircraft, to speed up the departure the next morning.
Pilot comes out at dawn, does a "thorough pre-flight" and
takes-off with the tow bar adapter still on the nose wheel
[Piper Arrow]. Aircraft was high time.
Nose wheel stuck 1/2 way up, Pilot flew around for a while
and then landed. Airframe damage was limited to nose and
firewall. In my mind the pilot was solely responsible since
that big chunk of red painted iron was visible.

But the FBO bought the pilot a new engine, prop, and all
other parts and installed them at no charge. I guess they
thought that a jury might not understand the phrase "pilot
in command."


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ps.com...
| On Feb 16, 9:06 pm, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
| > Always better to land with the mains down or with them
up if
| > wing and nose. But A proper pre-flight and maintenance
| > reduces the issue to a rare case. But then lots of
people
| > don't do the maintenance they should do.
|
| Its amazing how often such a stuck gear situation follows
immediately
| after maintenance or after a really hard landing.
|
| -Robert
|
|

[Roy Smith]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote:
> I guess they thought that a jury might not understand the phrase "pilot
> in command."

Which is probably a reasonable guess.

[Jim Macklin]

A jury of my peer would know all about airplanes, firearms,
criminal law, etc. They would know terms such as "ring gap"
or "P-lead" as well as the difference between Bullseye and
Unique or Red Dot and Blue Dot.

But just like me, all attorneys will excuse them form a jury
because they can't be manipulated.


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
| > I guess they thought that a jury might not understand
the phrase "pilot
| > in command."
|
| Which is probably a reasonable guess.
|